explanations please

Discuss missing children, unsolved or suspicious deaths, and unidentified persons. Amber Alerts to be posted in the Amber Alert Forum only.
nina
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:35 am

explanations please

Post by nina »

Hello everybody . I haven't filled my profile yet for I just registered myself . I hope you will forgive my english ! I am french, and live in France .

It's been for years that I spend time on the internet, looking for missing children . Don't ask me why, maybe it's because I have children myself and that I don"t understand who could hurt them .

I have a few questions, if you don"t mind .

1/What are the conditions in USA to declare an amber alert ? In France, where it"s just been approved, there must be a proof of foul play ( witness of abduction etc)

2/ why are children who disappeared for decades still considered as " injured lost missing", when we can easily suppose they're gone to heaven ? ( Brian Bleyl, Scott and Amy FAndel, Carla Corley, Jackie and cynthia Leslie....)

3/ concerning family abduction, how come I can still see families abduction that occured a decade ago, so that the child has reached the leagl age by now . Don't the child know he's been searched for ? How does it work in USA

4/ does the wearch warrants have a time-end ? I dont remember the word, but is there a date when the search warrant is not effective anymore ( xhen the child has grown for instance ?

5/ how come all these missing children don't seem to be in the police drawers anymore ? Shouldn't they be looking for bodies or news are something ?

And finally I would like to know if it is normal to let a four year old going to a friend's house by bike ??? ( Amanda CAMPBELL , missing since 27/12/1991)

I don"t want to judge anyone or anything . I am just stunned by the number of missing/abducted child oversea ... rest in peace all little angels ...
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

explanations please

Post by RedGlitter »

nina wrote:

2/ why are children who disappeared for decades still considered as " injured lost missing", when we can easily suppose they're gone to heaven ?



5/ how come all these missing children don't seem to be in the police drawers anymore ? Shouldn't they be looking for bodies or news are something ?

And finally I would like to know if it is normal to let a four year old going to a friend's house by bike ??? ( Amanda CAMPBELL , missing since 27/12/1991)






Hello Nina! :)



I don't have answers to all your questions but I can take a stab at a few....



#2: I think it's a natural safeguard to never write off a missing child as dead just because they haven't been found yet. That's the only explanation I can come up with.



#5: The missing kids are in the police drawers. But in the US, the number of cases is staggering. Always more coming in. It's the same with missing adults and homicide and other crimes. Too many crimes, too few investigators. In time, those cases get shelved into the "cold case files" while police try to find newer missing kids before it seems "too late' for them.



I don't know about anyone else, but unless it was just to the house next door, I would not let my *four year old* ride her bike to her friend's house. I think in today's world that's nuts!



Good luck in your mission and welcome to the forum!
Carl44
Posts: 10719
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:23 am

explanations please

Post by Carl44 »

nina wrote: Hello everybody . I haven't filled my profile yet for I just registered myself . I hope you will forgive my english ! I am french, and live in France .

It's been for years that I spend time on the internet, looking for missing children . Don't ask me why, maybe it's because I have children myself and that I don"t understand who could hurt them .

I have a few questions, if you don"t mind .

1/What are the conditions in USA to declare an amber alert ? In France, where it"s just been approved, there must be a proof of foul play ( witness of abduction etc)

2/ why are children who disappeared for decades still considered as " injured lost missing", when we can easily suppose they're gone to heaven ? ( Brian Bleyl, Scott and Amy FAndel, Carla Corley, Jackie and cynthia Leslie....)

3/ concerning family abduction, how come I can still see families abduction that occured a decade ago, so that the child has reached the leagl age by now . Don't the child know he's been searched for ? How does it work in USA

4/ does the wearch warrants have a time-end ? I dont remember the word, but is there a date when the search warrant is not effective anymore ( xhen the child has grown for instance ?

5/ how come all these missing children don't seem to be in the police drawers anymore ? Shouldn't they be looking for bodies or news are something ?

And finally I would like to know if it is normal to let a four year old going to a friend's house by bike ??? ( Amanda CAMPBELL , missing since 27/12/1991)



I don"t want to judge anyone or anything . I am just stunned by the number of missing/abducted child oversea ... rest in peace all little angels ...




a bit strange by an amazing coincedence i had joke at my french uncles expence and within seconds a french lady comes on with no profile how peculiar but any way welcome to the forum you probably speak english better than me so .... a french joke ...what speaks french and makes love like a tiger ...........moi.......
Carl44
Posts: 10719
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:23 am

explanations please

Post by Carl44 »

sorry did not realisr this was a sreious thread moves swiftly on:(
nina
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:35 am

explanations please

Post by nina »

thanks redglitter ( and bonjour jimbo !)

but maybe some of the people standing in the us gouvernment should try to understand why so many youngster disappear ? Instead of sending young guys to die in Irak, maybe that money should/could be used to protect and find the children ? HOw come there are so many runaways, so many poor people, so many people starving ? I mean, it is not better in France, we have our number of vanished kids ( Marion Wagon, Estelle Mouzin, Leo Bailey...) but there is not more than 10 and it 's already way too much ! But, the government has decided to do something about it and put out our "amber alert". And I guess, there are others countries at well where those things happen, but I am not sure it is equal to this !

If you take it from this side of the ocean it seems as if the US territory would be fool of decomposed bodies everywhere , this is overwhelming !! who cares, except few people like you guys or like the ones who have open websites for those kids not to be forgotten ? Does a disappearance often do the headlines ? How come cases like Jonbennet Ramsey stay on air a long time when we don t hear from other cases ? On the web site " children who never made it home" ( unfortunately not updated anymore since april 2004), there are something like 300 names . You take those names, you search in google and you hardly can't find any !! unknown . Just unknown .

I don't know, I don't get it . How many sick people are there on earth, and how many live in the states ?? How many kids have to die and/or disappear before it becomes a major deal ?? How many parents have to die in grief for not knowing what has become of their loved ones ?

how could anyone on earth want to hurt children ?????
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

explanations please

Post by RedGlitter »

nina wrote: thanks redglitter ( and bonjour jimbo !)

but maybe some of the people standing in the us gouvernment should try to understand why so many youngster disappear ? Instead of sending young guys to die in Irak, maybe that money should/could be used to protect and find the children ? HOw come there are so many runaways, so many poor people, so many people starving ? I mean, it is not better in France, we have our number of vanished kids ( Marion Wagon, Estelle Mouzin, Leo Bailey...) but there is not more than 10 and it 's already way too much ! But, the government has decided to do something about it and put out our "amber alert". And I guess, there are others countries at well where those things happen, but I am not sure it is equal to this !



If you take it from this side of the ocean it seems as if the US territory would be fool of decomposed bodies everywhere , this is overwhelming !! who cares, except few people like you guys or like the ones who have open websites for those kids not to be forgotten ? Does a disappearance often do the headlines ? How come cases like Jonbennet Ramsey stay on air a long time when we don t hear from other cases ? On the web site " children who never made it home" ( unfortunately not updated anymore since april 2004), there are something like 300 names . You take those names, you search in google and you hardly can't find any !! unknown . Just unknown .

I don't know, I don't get it . How many sick people are there on earth, and how many live in the states ?? How many kids have to die and/or disappear before it becomes a major deal ?? How many parents have to die in grief for not knowing what has become of their loved ones ?

how could anyone on earth want to hurt children ?????




Hello Nina-



I do appreciate your concern and efforts at helping missing kids. :)

That said, I don't know the statistics and percentages but I do know that missing children occur worldwide. It's not just America.



I'll pass on the Iraq thing because that seems like a low blow to the USA and there are many causes equally as important as finding missing children that we could be using the money for. As well, all the money in the world is not going to safeguard our kids.



Why we have missing children and runaways:



(a few suggestions)



abusive parents (physically, sexually or emotionally)

negligent parents or bad home life

poor school system

parents who abduct their own kids to keep them from their spouse

sick individuals who get enjoyment from preying on children

parents and kids don't get along

pregnancy



Why does the US have poor and starving people:



(again, a few ideas)



poor work ethic

jobs don't pay enough

not enough education to get a good job

couldn't afford college

got pregnant too soon/have too many kids to feed

can't survive on social security and too old to work



Jon Benet Ramsey most likely got attention because she was a child beauty contestant which is a love-hate thing in America. They dressed her and made her up as a little tart, and hinted that her father may have molested her. She captured everyone's attention because of this.

There is not enough time in the day for the media to alert us to every single missing child. There are other crimes that deserve air time too. That may sound callous but that's the truth.



How many sick people are in the States:



A lot. Like there probably is in your country too. I realize the US isn't too popular right now, but we don't have *all* the sickos!



How many kids must die before it becomes a big deal:



It already is a big deal. We also have missing adults. What about them?
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Nomad
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:36 am

explanations please

Post by Nomad »

nina

*I am french, and live in France .*







What are the odds of that happening ?

I AM AWESOME MAN
nina
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:35 am

explanations please

Post by nina »

is this supposed to be funny ?

redglitter, I am not among those who like to generalize . When you say the us are not very popular right now, my opinion is that it's rather the us government - to say the least - . I do hope , and I know, that the american people is not as dumb as the media would like us to believe . And the Irak thing was not a low blow, sorry if you took it that way . It's just because right here right now, it"s the only reason why we hear about the USA.

Anyway, the reasons you give are indeed reasons we find all over the world ( although I didn't know some of those you give even existed in the USA), not only in the US, but since the USA are supposed to be the biggest nation in the world, I do not quite understand how the biggest economical country can't sweep in front of of its own door before sweeping other one's lands . It is because the USA is the biggest nation that we, oversea, hear about all these sick stories . The same things, even worse happen in Mexico, or elsewhere, but that we don't hear.

I would like to be able to do more from here, but what can I do ? any hints ?
Carl44
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:23 am

explanations please

Post by Carl44 »

Nomad;439745 wrote: nina

*I am french, and live in France .*

What are the odds of that happening ?




well i thought it was well funny :wah:
teramiabullfrog
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:01 pm

explanations please

Post by teramiabullfrog »

and welcome to the forum, you asked some very interesting questions regarding several of the missing persons issues, which are global; however, the issues seem to have a lot more media attention here, and world wide, just because it is here. realize what you read in the papers and hear and see on the news, about here, is all you need to know, and is government approved, and fit for you to know. realize that there are tens of thousands of people in this country who do volunteer work for thousands of not-for-profit charities devoted to providing service to families of the missing - both helping find the missing and helping prevent child abduction. charities develop programs (some modeled after the huge national, federal funded, missing children programs - managed by the federal agencies created and funded to over-see the statistic gathering, and the operation of the annual funded help find and help prevent missing children Programs, Laws, Alerts, Presidential Memorandums, and Agencies - i.e. National Center for Missing and Exploited Children {NCMEC}, National Clearing House for Missing Adults, and the Congressional Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children), and do fund raising from charitable donations, and receive no funding from the government; therefore, the help find and prevent missing children programs created, developed and managed by the charities are operated at a much more efficient level (so the program operates at the efficiency level it was originally intended) opposed to the federal run, national programs, which are not managed at the level of efficiency they were developed and funded for. Simple communication from the federal politicians and agencies responsible for following the instructions for the programs, to the next level of federal employee responsible for following the next steps of instructions, and a lot more reported missing children would be found and a lot fewer missing child reports would be filed. Getting enough people together to voice enough dissent (I Protest) so the politicians are forced to do the job they're being paid to do, is the most difficult task.

Nina, you posed some great questions. I do volunteer work for a missing children charity, created by the family members of several missing children. In answer to your first question, the Board of Directors of the Finding Our Children Under Stress Organization (F.O.C.U.S.) are looking into how an Amber Alert is begun (we'll get back to you on that one - where's "lady cop"? she had all the info about this subject). Your second question, no family member of a missing loved one would give up hope their missing relative would someday return - no matter how old they are. A great number of missing adults in this country were being treated for some form of mental disorder before they vanished, and may not remember they have a loving family still searching and waiting. In answer to your third question, again the directors will get back to you on an answer to that one. Number four, involves peoples civil rights, if an adult wants to be missing from their family they have the right to do that; however, they should also have the moral decency and responsibility to inform their family they no longer want anything to do with them, call off the search and cancel the missing person report so law enforcement and the various charities involved with the search, can end investigations and flyer distribution. Finally, this day and age it's best not to allow a four year old (or just about any age person) to ride their bike alone somewhere). the four child abduction prevention rules, endorsed by the Congressional Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children are: (1) never go alone - consciously plan ahead to be with someone all the time, (2) let an adult know where you are going, and when you arrive there, (3) say "no" if you feel threatened and tell an adult you trust, (4) avoid situations or places that make you feel uncomfortable and confused. For more information about charities services, and mission statements, programs, statistics, etc., check out some of the other threads by teramiabullfrog.
teramiabullfrog
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:01 pm

explanations please

Post by teramiabullfrog »

back to you about the Amber Alert: according to the Board of Directors of the F.O.C.U.S. Org. the criteria for activating the Amber Alert is, (1) the investigating law enforcement agency confirms an abduction has occurred, (2) the victim is 17 years of age or younger, or has a proven mental or physical disability, (3) victim is in imminent danger of serious injury or death, (4) information is availoable that, if provided to the public, could assist in the safe return of the victim. only a law enforcement agency can activate an Amber Alert.
teramiabullfrog
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:01 pm

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Post by teramiabullfrog »

nina, regarding your third question, after discussing it with the F.O.C.U.S. Org. Board of Directors, a missing person case, involving an abduction by a non-custodial family member, will stay active as long as the parent who has legal custody continues the search. the victim of a non-custodial victim may not know they are being searched for by the person who has legal custody, even after they become of adult age (18 and older). hope this helps with some of your questions.
nina
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:35 am

explanations please

Post by nina »

thanks a lot ! Do all the criteria you mention have to be reunited for the amber alert or just one of them ? Our government semms to be vrey proud of copying your system but it sems it has forgotten some of your criteria . Here the aebduction has to be proved before any alert . that means, if there is no witness to an abduction, there won't be any media alert . I let you imagine what it can mean to all the french parents of a lost child .

As for the family abduction, I understand you say that search still goes on as long as the custodial parent say so . Does it mean the childen abducted by their own parent does not know he's been abducted and search for ?? That seems difficult to beleive, although I guess those parents who are able to abduct their child must be just strong enough to provide new identity and so on . Tht would work for babies , but the kids who were abducted after the age of five must know, no ?

As I said, we have our own abducted kids, thousands of disapperance each year, most of which are runaways . But, for Marion Wagon, Leo Bailey, Estelle Mouzin, and some others ones, no amber alert ( i don't even know the name it has here) or any thing else except a web site created by morning parents and a few calls in the media has been done .



right now, I must admit I am sick . A 19 yo mother, has just killed her 14 months old baby, trying to make it appear as a strange disappearance . She strangled him, stuffed him, just because being a single mother was just " too hard " !! she dumped him in a blanket, got on her scooter, and throwed him in a nearby pond ...

I don"t get how people can be that sick to hurt little people.
teramiabullfrog
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:01 pm

explanations please

Post by teramiabullfrog »

in response to your last thread, as far as procedure to activate an amber alert, all of the criteria mentioned in my previous thread are suppose to be before an amber alert is issued; however, it's up to the investigating law enforcement agency to declare an amber alert so as with anything different people may interpret things differently from others so interpretation of "all the criteria" may not always be exactly the same in every case. as far as what the amber alert is called in france, we're checking with an international nonprofit missing children org. to find that out for you.

regarding non-custodial abductions, often the child doesn't know anything about the law and if their mother or father has custody (according to a judge and the court), and would have no way of knowing his other parent (who the court decided does have custody) has initiated a search for them.

don't make yourself sick reading the paper and watching the news about all of the sick-o's harming their own children or others, just continuing being a positive influence on your own children and others. your correct though, it's very frustrating to think there's so many people out there who don't seem to have any moral values and no concern about others, especially those who prey on children. just be assured that the vast majority of people are good people and want the world to be a safe and positive place for children to learn and grow. hopefully and eventually, the laws and programs created and developed to crack down on child predators will be managed at the efficiency level they were originally designed, so people taking advantage of others, and child predators in particular, will know the punishment is so severe it will help stop these vicious crimes and the people who do them.

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