My girl friend is an alcoholic

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:28 am

I really need some advise. I've come to this realization tonight. Let me lay down some background. I was raised in an alcoholic home. I come from a long line of drinkers and have little tolerance for drunks. Now by drunks I am not referring to party folks and people who drink, but rather people who become altered by it, or dependant on it.

I've met a wonderful woman about 7 months ago. But about 4 months in, I noticed that we always have disagreements when she has been drinking. When she drinks, she gets rude, mean, and just plain nasty. I approached her on it and she promised to stop getting drunk.

The next time she got drunk was when my mother came to town for thanksgiving. Now my mom is just plain certifiable. She is hard to deal with sober or otherwise. Well I had to go to work, and left her with my girlfriend to keep her entertained. My girlfriend got drunk. Nice first impression eh? Long story short, they got into a disagreement, my mom went home early and I have not heard from her since. Now my mom is not the easiest person to get along with, hell, she is crazy, and my girlfriend is just nasty as a drunk. What do I do?

A few weeks later, my girlfriend got drunk again, as par for the course we got into another argument. I gave the ultimatum, quit or I'm gone.

That was less than 3 weeks ago. Last night when I came home she was drunk. She tried to be nice, but just could not help herself. I tried to isolate my self to the bedroom, faining exhaustion. She got upset when I did not return the same level of interest for lovemaking. How could I, she just chose alcohol over me.

I am going away for the weekend, with some of the guys. It was supposed to be an enjoyable weekend, but it looks like it's shot to hell. Too much crap on my mind to enjoy it the way I wanted to.

I guess my question is, with only 7 months invested, am I foolish to stick it out, for a while longer to see if she will come around or should I cut my loses now?

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:47 am

Be very very careful here..... Oh my, do I really want to do this? I have to.

You are seeing all the signs plastered right in front of your face.. I saw the signs too...26 years ago. My drunk was charming, good looking sincere, attentive, a great lover.. I ignored the signs. I married him. I couldnt even begin to describe to you what a horror my life was for 14 years. I have described it as Taking a trip to hell and back, over and over again. The consequences of my choice were that after getting rid of him.. I was faced with the overwhelming task of raising two children, on my own. Since your in the early stages of making a decision....

Go to AA meetings or Al Anon meetings now........ So you can hear the stories of the lives people have lived involved with an alcoholic. Ps.. dont fall into the trap of thinking you can help her or change her. As many of us veterans can tell you, weve lived it. They can only help themselves. If you hold her hand, and try to pull her up.. she will pull you down into a black hole.. that is darker than you can possibly imagine.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:25 am

It will only get worse.

Think about that. You can only control your own behavior, you cannot control anyone elses.

Alcohol does not make someone nasty... that is their personality, the booze enhances the trait. Don't kid yourself, she is not being nasty because of alcohol ~ she is being nasty, because she IS nasty.

Do you want to waste anymore of your time, your future with someone like this? Time to break it off IMO. (Then you will really see how mean she can be)

Good Luck

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:40 am

>>^..^ Alcohol does not make someone nasty... that is their personality, the booze enhances the trait. Don't kid yourself, she is not being nasty because of alcohol ~ she is being nasty, because she IS nasty.

Bravo! I come from an alcoholic family as well and have a few alcoholic acquaintances. The nasty ones are because they have personality flaws that exist when they are not drinking as well.

My last boyfriend started drinking while we lived together and would pick until he found I something I couldn't ignore and a fight would ensue. He drank a full 1.5 L bottle of wine a night within three hours. He quit drinking after I scared the crap out of him but it was too late. He had revealed his nasty side and he couldn't hide it anymore. All the things he said and did when he was drinking were the things he thought and hide from me when he was sober. It was all the same guy. We split up when it became obvious that he couldn't control his anger with or without alcohol.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:02 am

Read about Dry Drunk.. It is exactly what the women here are describing to you. It is the nasty sober personality of the alcoholic. Often more nasty than when they are drinking.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:58 am

I can't add anything of value that weeder, Cassie, and koan haven't already said.

I'm very sorry you're going through this.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:25 am

get out now..."domestic violence" is next. one or both of you will end up in a jail cell if you don't cut it off, no waffling about. just end it. and DON'T listen to the inevitable pleas and promises.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:04 pm

Do you love your girlfriend? Does your girlfriend love you? Are there plans for the future? If the answer is yes, then there is always hope. Simply blowing off someone who has a problem is not always the answer. If you truly love someone, you want to help them, right? She sounds like she needs help with this. Does she admit there's a problem? Because recognizing a problem is really the first step in fixing it. For you to have even posted this problem shows me that you do care, and that this relationship matters to you. If that's the case, help her. If you love her.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:28 pm

i think i'm with baby rider on this one, with most emphasis on "Does she admit [or recognize] that there's a problem?". If she's in denial, you'll have a tremendous uphill battle. i've no skill or experience in this area, really. it's difficult if not impossible to apply the rigors of logic and rationality to matters of the heart ("formula: if you love X, you'll do Y. if X loves you, she'll do Z. if X is in denial, then go to plan 9").

there is always the [dangerous] option of 'aversion' therapy. when she's clearly at the stage of drunk, push more alcohol on her. fill her glass for her. maybe 'spike' it with some vodka to increase the alcohol content. make her sick each time she gets drunk. and by sick i mean really, really sick.

that's my 'i'm not an expert in this field' coming out. i have a pretty good feeling that the above is a very, very bad idea. an alcoholic is an addict. the addict needs the drug. it may not matter if they get sick, they'll still come back to the drug.

on the other hand, i know that sort of aversion has been practiced with some other drugs. not so much in increasing the dosage to make them sick, but in tainting the drug with a substance that _will_ cause a severe reaction concommitant with the drug. but that's the sort of thing that clearly has to be under a professional's supervision - and should also be done with the subject's cooperation. so it's back to square one - until she acknowledges she has a problem, you're stuck.

i just don't know. it's not an easy formula like 'how much do you love her', because that's something that can't be cleanly quantified.

i just don't know.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:02 pm

Interesting theory on aversion therapy. If she's that mean when she drinks, wouldn't Bullet be setting himself up for a potentially ugly scene?

Being a bartender, I have some experience with drunks. The nicest most pleasant person can turn into a foaming-at-the-mouth screeching jackass when served too much booze. People saying that she's nasty all the time, the drinking has nothing to do with it, is innaccurate. I know of people who go for months not drinking and are very nice. Normal, reasonable people, who should just never touch alcohol in any form. Ever. AA is probably a good idea for her. If she's willing.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:49 pm

I'm 50/50 on this one, i think that if you care enough for her then you should try to get her to aknowledge that she is an alcoholic & then help her through the treatment AA meetings etc, Anastrophe is right in saying that there is a drug that is given to make the user sick when alchohol is consumed.

The biggest problem is getting them to admit that the problem exists.

On the other hand, i think that you should ask yourself "is it really worth it" my sisters partner is an alcoholic. he has been for 10 years and he'll never change, he occasionaly goes on the wagon for a couple of months to give his liver time to regenerate itself when its going into failure then when he's lost the weight (fluid retention) and he's stopped vomiting blood and he can walk because his gout has abaited he hits the bottle and so the sorry cycle starts once again.

He can't work because of it and so my sister cares for all his needs, when i ask why she does'nt throw him out her response is " where would he go, who'd look after him" not "because i love him" as you would expect.

Basically she's gone from lover to full time carer, maybe this is an extreme example of an alcoholic, i have a friend who drinks a bottle of wine every night she has a very resposible job, is a single mum of two has a lovely home/car etc but i think that she has a problem with drink i think that she is an alcoholic, she thinks i am crazy in thinking that the fact that she can't go two nights without a drink is a problem!!

What i'm trying to say (not very well) is that alcoholics come in many guises,you have recognised that she does have a problem & she quite obviously does'nt, and unless you can get her to face up to it then you should move on, and you coming from such a background do you really need this once again in your life?

My very best wishes go out to you Bullet, take care x

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:53 pm

My first question is, where did you meet her? I have a sister-in-law who meets men in bars then complains that they drink. DUH!!!

My husband is a recovering alcoholic and drug addict. He's been clean and sober for 22 years now. When we first got together he still attended NA and AA meetings. I went with him because not only did I want to support him, I wanted to learn. The best advice I have seen here is Al-anon. Coming from an alcoholic family, now coming to this realization, I think it would be a good idea to give it a try. See how others are living and dealing with the alcoholic. See if this is the life you want. While admitting she has a problem is the first step, wanting and getting help should be the second. She should do it for herself, not for you, not for anyone else.

The problem with feeding her more alcohol is possible alcohol poisoning. I can see the idea behind this, but it just scares me that had I tried this, the person would end up with alcohol poisoning.

Stop giving ultimatums of either alcohol or me. You've said it, and you can continue to say it a hundred times, but until you walk away, she's just going to see it as another threat that you won't go through with. You wouldn't believe how far down to the bottom people have to drop before they'll get help sometimes.

Good luck to you. Let us know how it's going. I hope you'll give al-anon a try.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:41 pm

I would ask: What is going on in your girlfriend's life? Not looking for

excuses, just reasons behind.

Is any of HER family around? Do they see the same kinds of things you

do? What is their reaction?

And you don't have to say if you'd rather not, but how old is your girlfriend?

At 22, it might be harder to get her out of this than at 33, say. And

please, I'm NOT saying a 22 year old couldn't change.

It's very drastic, but what about an intervention of some sort? Sit

around with people who care about her and talk turkey to her.

You sound like a really nice guy. I don't think you'd be foolish to try to

help somehow. On the other hand, you might in doing so set yourself

up for a whole heck of a lot more heartache than you have now.

Very hard to decide to cut your losses, but that might be what's best.

Take care.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:43 pm

yes, i want to reiterate, my comments regarding aversion 'therapy' were strictly academic. i am not a doctor. i am not a lawyer. my strongest advice would be, don't take my advice. alcohol poisoning is indeed a potentiality, and grave at that. do not tease the happy-fun ball.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:01 pm

lady cop wrote: get out now..."domestic violence" is next. one or both of you will end up in a jail cell if you don't cut it off, no waffling about. just end it. and DON'T listen to the inevitable pleas and promises. Yup

cars · Post by **cars** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:23 pm

Alcoholism is really a "disease", one that a alcoholic person can not help themselves with. It's in their blood, their body can not break down the alcochol effeciently, "One" drink spurs on the disease, and that disease takes over that persons body, they have no control over it. 7 months is a small part of your life, as you mentioned. My brother-in-law was an alcoholic, he started drinking at 11, (He got the booze from friends who thought it was cool) and he could not help himself, he drank & drank until he drank himself to death, he died at 23! His parents tried everything & anything to help him to no avail. Like LC said get out now, before your'e involved too deep! :wah: (You will thank yourself later on)

Cars :driving:

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:33 pm

you know sometimes i go back and realize i really can be bossy and opinionated! but hey, i'm not paid to be mary poppins. i say it as i see it. i am not unsympathetic to those with an illness. but i see it too much, every murderer i know had an 'illness' or was off their meds, or on new meds , blah blah blah, nearly every domestic violence episode is fueled by alcohol or drugs, i am so sick of the "sick" excuse! :-5 i was concerned about the poster since i have a LOT of experience in this venue. the relationship is not so entrenched that he cannot extricate himself from the endless agony ahead. (and the trips to jail.) are alcoholics salvageable? of course. would i ignore the red flags? (nastiness for example) NOPE. get out and find someone who is not going to be a project, but rather a partner. there i go being bossy again

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:08 pm

LADYCOP,

I agree with you 100%... The writting is on the wall, people don't change, they try but it's short lived..!!

Drinking is just like any other disease. I have seen the hell it causes families, the devastation on the body.. My father died at 57, he was a heavy drinker most of his life.. He just couldn't stop, and when he did, it was to late..!!

There are now easy answers here, but if it's already at this level after only seven months of the relationship, it will only get worse. If you love her, it will be difficult to seperate the disease from the person. But you should consider the future, if your angry now.. what will you be in another 7 months.

Might be time to end it, and remain friends.

My X-husband was a drunk, angry man. I met and married him at 19.. divorced at 24.. that was in 1967... That was 38 years ago, he is still a angry, drunk, who is close to death, with every part of his body distroyed by his drinking.

I WISH YOU LUCK..!!

you know sometimes i go back and realize i really can be bossy and opinionated! but hey, i'm not paid to be mary poppins. i say it as i see it. i am not unsympathetic to those with an illness. but i see it too much, every murderer i know had an 'illness' or was off their meds, or on new meds , blah blah blah, nearly every domestic violence episode is fueled by alcohol or drugs, i am so sick of the "sick" excuse! i was concerned about the poster since i have a LOT of experience in this venue. the relationship is not so entrenched that he cannot extricate himself from the endless agony ahead. (and the trips to jail.) are alcoholics salvageable? of course. would i ignore the red flags? (nastiness for example) NOPE. get out and find someone who is not going to be a project, but rather a partner. there i go being bossy again

__________________

~i have pms and a gun~ 10-4

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:13 pm

The responses seem to run to extremes. She is savable. She's gonna die at 23. Only you can decide if it is worth the effort.

Seven months is not long enough to know if she is worth the work. People don't show their flaws until three months in to a relationship. So you really just started to know a bit about her when you noticed her drinking. Before that she was trying to attract you. She hid stuff and she acted the way she needed to to get you to fall in love with her. Then it gets harder to maintain the illusion. Do you like/love her or the illusion that she put on for you? If you don't know then it is not worth the effort. Sometimes the best way to help someone is to leave them. If she loves you she will quit drinking to get you back. If she doesn't, let her be someone elses problem.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:36 pm

I'm seeing SOOOO many different opinions here, and some extreme suggestions. I'd like to say that a LOT of you are making assumptions where this girl is concerned. And they are all based on your own personal lives, not hers. How do any of us know what she is like? I've heard "She won't change" and "Domestic violence is next", and "She obviously dosen't admit there's a problem..." How would any of us KNOW that? How does anyone know she dosen't admit it and WANT to change? Maybe she is looking for help. And domestic violence? Sheesh, THAT'S extreme, and ladycop is a tad biased because of her job. No offense intended whatsoever, ladycop, but we are making LARGE leaps at assuming many things here. Obviously Bullet cares, or he wouldn't bother looking for answers. So let's try being supportive of the one who's asking for advice AND the one he cares about. People can and DO change, with help and if what they would be losing matters that much to them. If she chooses drinking over him, he should kick her to the curb, but if she TRULY wants him, and is willing to do whatever it takes to keep him, then she will. Good luck Bullet.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:07 pm

we can only respond based on our experiences, and i admit to a bias. i also know i am a bit cynical. we can only answer to what information we were given. i hear "drunk and nasty" and little alarms go off. if this is the love of his life he is free to go on a mission, but he asked for opinions and mine are based on experience. i don't give a rat's corpse about her problems. i am addressing the poster's problem. and here it is...drunk and nasty. i still say get out. nasty being the operative word. and lest anyone does not get it...drunk and nasty equals someone raising a hand eventually...and that someone is going to jail. the thing is, they will probably both go to jail because that is our mandate.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:22 pm

BabyRider,

Good advice I will take it. With this statement. What else do we have to base our advice on, but experience. I have been around a long time, in that time I have seen lots of people with drinking problems. Sometimes, and its very rare they can get it under control, most times they can't. I think Koan said it best, sometimes the best thing you can do for someone with a drinking problem(or any substance problem) is step away. If they change, and come back, and you want to start the relationship again, so be it.

I understand that affairs of the HEART are extremely difficult. I have made some awful mistakes myself. It was the direct advice of others, that had my best interest at heart, that made me see the forest for the trees..!!

So let's try being supportive of the one who's asking for advice AND the one he cares about. People can and DO change, with help and if what they would be losing matters that much to them. If she chooses drinking over him, he should kick her to the curb, but if she TRULY wants him, and is willing to do whatever it takes to keep him, then she will. Good luck Bullet.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:27 pm

lady cop wrote: we can only respond based on our experiences, and i admit to a bias. i also know i am a bit cynical. we can only answer to what information we were given. i hear "drunk and nasty" and little alarms go off. if this is the love of his life he is free to go on a mission, but he asked for opinions and mine are based on experience. i don't give a rat's corpse about her problems. i am addressing the poster's problem. and here it is...drunk and nasty. i still say get out. nasty being the operative word. and lest anyone does not get it...drunk and nasty equals someone raising a hand eventually...and that someone is going to jail. the thing is, they will probably both go to jail because that is our mandate.
And in the interest of playing devil's advocate, there are two sides to every story. I totally get where you're coming from, being in your line of work makes you cynical, and I'm sure you have seen some very ugly stuff from people who are "drunk and nasty." I just think it's a mistake to generalize about the violence. Bullet sounds like a big guy, (from reading his other posts, about fitness, etc.) and I wonder if his girl is capable of such violence? Because not everyone is, in fact, most aren't.

And just a short off-topic question: BOTH parties involved in domestic violence go to jail? How does that happen? The person getting hit goes too? Is that what you're saying? I'm confused.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:33 pm

As a bartender, I have seen how a person can be the sweetest person on earth when they are sober and the meanest s.o.b. in the world when they are drunk.

Sometimes our caring and giving them chance after chance only enables them.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:40 pm

it used to be that if a guy smacked a female he went to jail. in last five years we are mandated to take in any party who hits. and it is often the female. domestic violence was once a 'joke', not anymore. i will arrest you both and you will get no-contact order. i have seen this come as a big shock...mother charging daughter, and other unlikely scenarios. the next day the party has no place to go. and i have to go stand by while they get their belongings. the kids are screaming. i hate it. to answer your question....if i am on a domestic call and i have not actually witnessed the violence, it is my call who is perpetrator. i try to exercise good judgement. if i think they both have been violent i take them both to jail and let the judge sort it out. i have to. i don't have time for BS.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:00 pm

lady cop wrote: it used to be that if a guy smacked a female he went to jail. in last five years we are mandated to take in any party who hits. and it is often the female. domestic violence was once a joke, not anymore. i will arrest you both and you will get no-contact order. i have seen this come as a big shock...mother charging daughter, and other unlikely scenarios. the next day the party has no place to go. and i have to go stand by while they get their belongings. the kids are screaming. i hate it. to answer your question....if i am on a domestic call and i have not actually witnessed the violence, it is my call who is perpetrator. i try to exercise good judgement. if i think they both have been violent i take them both to jail and let the judge sort it out. i have to. i don't have time for BS.
:yh_pray ....Thanking GOD I don't have Ladycop's job!

You guys have ALL my respect. Stay safe.

cars · Post by **cars** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:29 am

BabyRider wrote: I'm seeing SOOOO many different opinions here, and some extreme suggestions. I'd like to say that a LOT of you are making assumptions where this girl is concerned. And they are all based on your own personal lives, not hers. How do any of us know what she is like? I've heard "She won't change" and "Domestic violence is next", and "She obviously dosen't admit there's a problem..." How would any of us KNOW that? How does anyone know she dosen't admit it and WANT to change? Maybe she is looking for help. And domestic violence? Sheesh, THAT'S extreme, and ladycop is a tad biased because of her job. No offense intended whatsoever, ladycop, but we are making LARGE leaps at assuming many things here. Obviously Bullet cares, or he wouldn't bother looking for answers. So let's try being supportive of the one who's asking for advice AND the one he cares about. People can and DO change, with help and if what they would be losing matters that much to them. If she chooses drinking over him, he should kick her to the curb, but if she TRULY wants him, and is willing to do whatever it takes to keep him, then she will. Good luck Bullet.

You seem to have big opinions & little experience, for if you had more of life's experiences you would respect it more. Bullet is here looking for "peoples" life's experiences, that's where opinions come from! The people here are looking to try to help out Bullet, and stop him from getting experienced peoples "proven" pain! People that have been there, done that! :wah:

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:35 am

y sister died at 35 years old. 16 years ago. She left behind a son. Hes 17 now.

She drank and did drugs while she was pregnant. PS.....ALCOHOL IS A DRUG> AMERICAS MOST POPULAR DRUG. My sister was the kind of person who would give you the shirt off her back, ( if she had a shirt.. which most times she didnt)

She didnt because she had a disease that kept her from ever having anything. My parents spent 25 years trying to help her. It destroyed their marriage. Her son was born with 4 holes in his heart. He was also born going through withdrawl.

Today he is 17. He exhibits the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome.My mom took him home from the hospital as an infant, and raised him. She had to quit her job to do so... The police were at our home many times when my sister was there. It was humiliating for my parents. Im rambling a bit here. I dont like to remember this stuff. But if telling stories can open someones eyes.... its worth it. Yes there are people who can recover.. If they want to. Not if you want them to. The percentages of successful recovery are very small. Before you attempt to have a relationship with someone with this disease.. You need to see that they are making a concerted effort on their own to get well . So that you understand Im not an anti alcohol vigilante.... I drink. Socially. It has never made me nasty,it has never made me risk my children, its never made me lose a job. I dont (gratefully have the disease. )

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:36 am

by all means do what you are able to guide the alcoholic you love towards help, when they want it. and Al-Anon works for many who love an alcoholic. BUT the line in the sand is where it becomes physically threatening. or even emotionally abusive. DON"T TAKE ABUSE OF ANY KIND. it will wear you down and destroy your self-esteem. i consider the nastiness at issue to be a precursor to abuse. i really have nothing more to add and i would be interested in hearing from Bullet as to his decision.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:48 pm

WEEDER,

Bless you, this must have been difficult. :yh_hugs I liked what you said about not having the disease. Many times people can't see this, and wonder why in the hell their loved one can't stop.

y sister died at 35 years old. 16 years ago. She left behind a son. Hes 17 now. She drank and did drugs while she was pregnant. PS.....ALCOHOL IS A DRUG> AMERICAS MOST POPULAR DRUG. My sister was the kind of person who would give you the shirt off her back, ( if she had a shirt.. which most times she didnt)

She didnt because she had a disease that kept her from ever having anything. My parents spent 25 years trying to help her. It destroyed their marriage. Her son was born with 4 holes in his heart. He was also born going through withdrawl.

Today he is 17. He exhibits the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome.My mom took him home from the hospital as an infant, and raised him. She had to quit her job to do so... The police were at our home many times when my sister was there. It was humiliating for my parents. Im rambling a bit here. I dont like to remember this stuff. But if telling stories can open someones eyes.... its worth it. Yes there are people who can recover.. If they want to. Not if you want them to. The percentages of successful recovery are very small. Before you attempt to have a relationship with someone with this disease.. You need to see that they are making a concerted effort on their own to get well . So that you understand Im not an anti alcohol vigilante.... I drink. Socially. It has never made me nasty,it has never made me risk my children, its never made me lose a job. I dont (gratefully have the disease. )

BULLET, I hope you understand where we are coming from, we want to help you understand the devastation of this disease, up close and personel. As you can see the disease has so touched many of our lives. For the most part in a painful way.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:58 pm

cars wrote: You seem to have big opinions & little experience, for if you had more of life's experiences you would respect it more. Bullet is here looking for "peoples" life's experiences, that's where opinions come from! The people here are looking to try to help out Bullet, and stop him from getting experienced peoples "proven" pain! People that have been there, done that! :wah:
Well cars...since you, among others seem to know so much how's this? Big opinions and little experience, huh? I AM an alcoholic. So you can take your non-existant knowledge of MY experience and stick it in your ear. And the one thing I can tell you is that without help, there's no getting by it. Everyone here "knows someone" who has struggled with this, I DO struggle with this. So should MY fiance dump ME because I have this problem? I admit there's a problem, I know I can't control it, and I want to beat it. So. Taking THAT into consideration, should he?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:26 pm

BabyRider....i am sure you don't want this thread to become about you, but since you have made the statement , may i ask a personal question? you need not reply of course! do you find it difficult and counterproductive to work as a bartender in view of what you have said? ...and as to whether your fiance should give up on you...not unless there is violence involved. that was my point all along.i wish you all the best in conquering your demons, and am sure you will succeed.

cars · Post by **cars** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:34 pm

BabyRider wrote: Well cars...since you, among others seem to know so much how's this? Big opinions and little experience, huh? I AM an alcoholic. So you can take your non-existant knowledge of MY experience and stick it in your ear. And the one thing I can tell you is that without help, there's no getting by it. Everyone here "knows someone" who has struggled with this, I DO struggle with this. So should MY fiance dump ME because I have this problem? I admit there's a problem, I know I can't control it, and I want to beat it. So. Taking THAT into consideration, should he?

Well BR, you have big opinions on everything that's posted, so you just happen (so you say) to have first hand experience with this one thing. You said you were a Barmaid, I guess you like playing with FIRE! Not even you can know if you can really beat this thing, it could over the years catch up with you. If you really love your fiance, (of how long) did you take his best interest in mind? Is it really fair to him for you to put him in this emotional predicument that can jeopardize his future? By the way, he's not the one here looking for the advice, if he were, he would be getting the same advice everyone here has said to Bullet:wah:

If in fact you are an alcoholic, all the best wishes and good luck to you! I hope you win!

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:56 pm

The person, the alcoholic has to want to stop. It is a decision, to say NO-no more and thats it. I stopped butts 3 weeks ago, and i said, i smoked long enough, i am done...period. Everyone knows when there is a problem. There is expression in the writings of people with a dependency of liquor. It is common, you are not the only one, if that makes you feel better. Been there done that..

cars · Post by **cars** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:10 pm

Paula wrote: The person, the alcoholic has to want to stop. It is a decision, to say NO-no more and thats it. I stopped butts 3 weeks ago, and i said, i smoked long enough, i am done...period. Everyone knows when there is a problem. There is expression in the writings of people with a dependency of liquor. It is common, you are not the only one, if that makes you feel better. Been there done that..

Quitting Smoking is almost as tough as an alcoholic to stop drinking. How many times have you quit before? My wife has quit over the years 50+ times, some times for as long as 6-1/2 months. But then? She's tried cold turkey, the gum, the patch, the lozenges.

She is still a smoker!! :guitarist

Cars :driving:

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:13 pm

As I said, my husband has been clean and sober for 22 years. He is now a bartender. Could he have done this 12 years ago? Maybe not. He is now to the point where he enjoys his sobriety too much to risk it and everything else he holds dear in his life.

Bullet--Why would you want to go deeper into a relationship with someone you already want to change?

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:26 pm

cars wrote: Quitting Smoking is almost as tough as an alcoholic to stop drinking. How many times have you quit before? My wife has quit over the years 50+ times, some times for as long as 6-1/2 months. But then? She's tried cold turkey, the gum, the patch, the lozenges.

She is still a smoker!! :guitarist

Cars :driving:

Dear Cars, i have never smoked alot. I am now 48 years old. Everyone is quitting. When i had Wine i wanted cigarettes my husband quit a year ago the stench is too much in the house as i said it was not daily. I am proud not to have them anymore, i am pretty good about saying thats it, and it is. A few months of hell and torture will afford me a few more years of LIFE! Having a good business you have to stop, it doesn't look good or sound good on the phone? :-6 I have less of an appetite for drinks now its just different believe me?

cars · Post by **cars** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:00 pm

Paula wrote: Dear Cars, i have never smoked alot. I am now 48 years old. Everyone is quitting. When i had Wine i wanted cigarettes my husband quit a year ago the stench is too much in the house as i said it was not daily. I am proud not to have them anymore, i am pretty good about saying thats it, and it is. A few months of hell and torture will afford me a few more years of LIFE! Having a good business you have to stop, it doesn't look good or sound good on the phone? :-6 I have less of an appetite for drinks now its just different believe me?

Hey- Hey Paula, (Old Song title)

I tell my wife she can add years to her life if she stops smoking. (The Doctor tells her the same thing) She says she knows, but somehow just looses the "won't power". She has plenty of "will power", she WILL have another & another! :-1

Cars :driving:

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:08 pm

All of you have given me much to think about. I appreciate all of the support, opinions and experiences. I have come to a conclusion. I will be letting you know what happens later. Again, thank you all very much.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:21 pm

Bullet wrote: All of you have given me much to think about. I appreciate all of the support, opinions and experiences. I have come to a conclusion. I will be letting you know what happens later. Again, thank you all very much.

She Needs Your Support, Hugs Daily and Kisses as Needed, i assure you she will change! These are vitamins the HEART needs, that only people can provide no pill form just PHYSICAL.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:32 pm

Thats it my heart is getting broken in pieces. I dont even know anyone participating here. And I can feel everyones pain. This is a very very sensitive, private,personal,involved topic. Maybe it isnt possible to try to counsel someone, anyone, on an issue this loaded with the potential for suffering. They tell you in Al Anon."Dont even try to discuss your situation with anyone who isnt living it... because there isnt anyone who will understand." If we are going to address issues of this sensitive of a nature, everyone has to be committed to staying calm. The big rule one agrees to when attending AA meetings is anonimity

(I cant spell that word) We need to be kind to one another. I sense a great affection between the members here. Quite frankly, I am amazed by it , and drawn to it. It reinforces my belief that the world is basically a good place. That humans carry the power amongst them to affect the world in amazing ways. Sometimes people with the greatest affection between them.. have disagreements.(Like families.) They just move on. Like us. Bullet you have been privledged to hear more personal information.. than any person seeking counsel

that I have ever known. More valuable is the fact that it came from strangers who

wanted to spare you pain through sharing their suffering or experience. Only you can make the decision regarding where you want your lifes path to go. Only you can make a determination regarding your girlfriends willingness to get and stay sober. My opinion is enough is enough. I want to get on this forum tomorrow morning and find everyone well.

Post by **kensloft** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:27 pm

weeder wrote: Only you can make the decision regarding where you want your lifes path to go. Only you can make a determination regarding your girlfriends willingness to get and stay sober. My opinion is enough is enough. I want to get on this forum tomorrow morning and find everyone well.

The key questions are 1) does she really love you and 2) does she really want to quit.

Quit seems to be the operative word in the posts. Be it quit the relationship, quit the beer, quit the potential for violence. All good advice but they offer no insight or understanding about the problem.

I drank heavily for over twnty years. I've had drinks with politicians, religious people, down and outers, bikers and punks.

It took me years how to learn how to drink myself into being the alcoholic person I was. It took me years to learn how not to drink myself into the alcohol consuming person that I am. Everybody, when it comes to alcohol, has the either or theory in mind. I tend to think, through my experience, that there are alternatives.

I would think nothing of drinking a mickey of whatever and umpteen beer on any given day. As a matter of fact I would do it everyday that I could. During the working week I would only drink at night, but, drink I did. I drank with the heavy drinkers and talk would always, upon occassion, turn to brother and sisters that had succumbed to the disease. Offer them a toast and drink.

One of the things that comes up with the tone of similarity is the thought of each night or the following day. I was lucky to fall in with the punk culture in Toronto. They had it down to a fine art.

Come in. Get hammered. Go to sleep. Wake up and the first thing you did, rather than commiserate about the night before, was grab a beer and start the process all over again. Did you know that you can get comfortably drunk three time a day?

What this did was get rid of the guilt about getting drunk. No time to think about it. People around people who drink, including the drinkers themselves, talk and raise the guilt level of each and everyone who imbibed at a particular time or place. Its the small talk that drinkers indulge in when they are sober or setting down to start another round.

Drinking is not free and when my money started paying my beer times as the only thing, other than rent and food, I decided that it was time to step back and take a look because I, obviously, had a problem.

Quitting cold turkey, for me, is not in the cards, because I have too many friends that drink whose company I enjoy. Hanging out in the bar with the boys and the girls drinking pop doesn't happen. You tell your friends that you'll catch them around.

To make a long story short. I cut down to drinking every three days then a week. It took several years to get to the point that I could drink weekly. Now, I drink when I feel like it. A beer or two a day or one big bash once a week. My consumption is limited to a certain amount. Once there I can smile and say, "Nope I'm going home." It's not that I don't want to drink. The urge is there. I don't fight the urge because I know that it will subside.

Those who don't know me and try to lay the, 'I can out drink you or you can have another one' gain a smile when I sit down and tell them that they can't even begin to believe how much I've drunk. When the sneer appears that says that they aren't buying it? I just look to the bartender who just laughs and mutters, "Ya, kids."

Don't get caught up in 'you said you weren't going to' because all you are doing is starting the cycle of guilt and revulsion. If I had a dime for everytime that I stopped drinking according to the timeline I had set, I could probably get a six-pack. The point is it is her timing and not yours. It is her body and not yours. It is her choice. Not yours!

The point is you keep on keeping on.

This is my story. For me, it works.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:47 pm

It is a difficult position that you are in. I am interested to hear what you decided and how it works out.

PS How like a man to tell us you decided and not tell us what you are doing til it is done. :-6 Much better than talking about it and not doing it.

samanthaguy · Post by **samanthaguy** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:04 am

Paula wrote: She Needs Your Support, Hugs Daily and Kisses as Needed, i assure you she will change! These are vitamins the HEART needs, that only people can provide no pill form just PHYSICAL. I agree, if you love this woman stick by her no matter what, thats part of being with someone,she has a problem, look at it this way if she had a small prob. at work and needed you to be there for her you would be, right? so dont bail when she has a big one. I have a family member who was on drugs and spent 2 years in prison b/c of it... he stole from people he loved to support it and was as you say nasty to everyone he knew. today (in just 6 years ) he ownes 2 homes and a successful business, people change... talk to her family, you dont have to take this on by yourself by yourself...GOOD LUCK

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:25 pm

weeder wrote: Thats it my heart is getting broken in pieces. I dont even know anyone participating here. And I can feel everyones pain. This is a very very sensitive, private,personal,involved topic. Maybe it isnt possible to try to counsel someone, anyone, on an issue this loaded with the potential for suffering. They tell you in Al Anon."Dont even try to discuss your situation with anyone who isnt living it... because there isnt anyone who will understand." If we are going to address issues of this sensitive of a nature, everyone has to be committed to staying calm. The big rule one agrees to when attending AA meetings is anonimity

(I cant spell that word) We need to be kind to one another. I sense a great affection between the members here. Quite frankly, I am amazed by it , and drawn to it. It reinforces my belief that the world is basically a good place. That humans carry the power amongst them to affect the world in amazing ways. Sometimes people with the greatest affection between them.. have disagreements.(Like families.) They just move on. Like us. Bullet you have been privledged to hear more personal information.. than any person seeking counsel

that I have ever known. More valuable is the fact that it came from strangers who

wanted to spare you pain through sharing their suffering or experience. Only you can make the decision regarding where you want your lifes path to go. Only you can make a determination regarding your girlfriends willingness to get and stay sober. My opinion is enough is enough. I want to get on this forum tomorrow morning and find everyone well.I love this. It's very profound, and I feel the same way about being drawn to the things perfect strangers are willing to share to help other perfect strangers. It takes away a bit of my cynicism. It IS a very personal and private topic, and being involved in it has raised some issues for me. I jumped on cars for speaking up without knowing the situation I was in, just like I said none of us could know the whole story, without living in it. Everyone's input matters, and can be useful, and I'm not going to say another word on it until Bullet tells us what happens. If he decides to share it. Waiting patiently.....

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:56 pm

weeder wrote: Thats it my heart is getting broken in pieces. I dont even know anyone participating here. And I can feel everyones pain. This is a very very sensitive, private,personal,involved topic. Maybe it isnt possible to try to counsel someone, anyone, on an issue this loaded with the potential for suffering. They tell you in Al Anon."Dont even try to discuss your situation with anyone who isnt living it... because there isnt anyone who will understand." If we are going to address issues of this sensitive of a nature, everyone has to be committed to staying calm. The big rule one agrees to when attending AA meetings is anonimity

(I cant spell that word) We need to be kind to one another. I sense a great affection between the members here. Quite frankly, I am amazed by it , and drawn to it. It reinforces my belief that the world is basically a good place. That humans carry the power amongst them to affect the world in amazing ways. Sometimes people with the greatest affection between them.. have disagreements.(Like families.) They just move on. Like us. Bullet you have been privledged to hear more personal information.. than any person seeking counsel

that I have ever known. More valuable is the fact that it came from strangers who

wanted to spare you pain through sharing their suffering or experience. Only you can make the decision regarding where you want your lifes path to go. Only you can make a determination regarding your girlfriends willingness to get and stay sober. My opinion is enough is enough. I want to get on this forum tomorrow morning and find everyone well.

AMEN!! Lets move on! :guitarist

Cars :driving:

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:47 pm

Cut your losses and run.

7 months is a small investment of time out of a life time. You have already lived with Alcohol abuse why do so again.

Erinna1112 · Post by **Erinna1112** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:21 pm

You know...I see a lot of hypocrisy and double standards on this thread. When the subject is Bullet's girlfriend that nobody on here knows, it's "Cut your losses and get out, she can't be saved." When someone that we all enjoy reading and interacting with admits to the problem (BabyRider asking if her b/f should kick her to the curb), the reaction is, "Oh, no, he shouldn't desert you, you can change, with help."

Makes it harder to be a bossy, hard-assed, judgemental know-it-all jumping to conclusions when you personalize it a little, doesn't it?

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:08 pm

Having a bad day????

Erinna1112 · Post by **Erinna1112** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:14 pm

weeder wrote: Having a bad day????
Not that it's any of anyone's concern except mine, but no, I'm not. I simply make it a point to protest hypocrisy when I see it. You really can't have it both ways.