Who is being selfish: me or my parents?

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spot
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Who is being selfish: me or my parents?

Post by spot »

The executive in this country is a recognized term for the collective decision-making and responsibility of the Cabinet, led by the Prime Minister and fed by advisers. In the USA it refers to the equivalent team in the White House.

All you can do is elect a representative once every five years, and your elected representative will make up his mind how to vote on your behalf on a question like adopting Sharia law or anything else, and as I said I can't remember the last time an elected representative's vote made a difference to the decision of the executive. We have national elections which determine which party provides the executive, that's one shot every five years to influence national events and it's limited to what a new executive is prepared to do that's different to the old one.

I didn't mention public opinion which I regard as a reflection of tabloid screamers.

I didn't say time-wasting, it matters a lot to a community whether it has a competent local representative for its MP. That has nothing to do with his influence in national politics.
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Who is being selfish: me or my parents?

Post by Saint_ »

I moved out and got my own apartment when I was 16. Paid for it by working nights at a Sporting Goods store while I finished High School. Bought my own car, and put myself through college the same way. My parents were poor, so they were very happy to let me make my way through life.

My point is that that it is your life, you will have to live it sooner or later, no matter what they say. And what kind of country forbids it's citizens to travel? Do you live in North Korea for Heaven's Sake?
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Post by YZGI »

Clodhopper;1394032 wrote: Had a bit of a dig back through MilkMoon's posts (not every one, but a fair sample) in the light of the suggestions she may not be who she says she is, and apart from an unusual sophistication found nothing to suggest this.



Mid/late teen girls can be very sophisticated in their ideas, very often much more than boys of a similar age. And if they haven't that much to do other than read or study and are that way inclined can pick up a lot very fast. Don't know what the education system is like for most girls but I would guess at an expensive education for this one, or a very hardworking student (probably both).



We can't know that any of us are who we say we are. As it happens I've met spot, so I'm pretty sure he exists, but gmc, now - he could be a complete myth! And all our American posters could be a CIA plot to deceive us all. But I think MilkMoon is who she says she is. I didn't, by the way, see any reference to her age in any of the posts I read, or on her profile, so I don't know where that figure came from other than spot. I'd have guessed a couple of years older than 16, but it's an age it's easy to guess wrong at.



edit: Actually, wasn't an expensive education referred to? So I don't have to guess that, but it fit the profile.


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Post by Bruv »

spot;1394120 wrote:

All you can do is elect a representative once every five years, and your elected representative will make up his mind how to vote on your behalf on a question like adopting Sharia law or anything else, and as I said I can't remember the last time an elected representative's vote made a difference to the decision of the executive.
So the elected representatives form the executive ?

So elected representatives votes actually do make a difference. We have national elections which determine which party provides the executive, that's one shot every five years to influence national events and it's limited to what a new executive is prepared to do that's different to the old one.
Considering that this is part of a topic concerning Saudi Arabia and it's freedoms, I suspect many there would jump at the chance to elect a new government every 5 years

I didn't mention public opinion which I regard as a reflection of tabloid screamers.

I didn't say time-wasting, it matters a lot to a community whether it has a competent local representative for its MP. That has nothing to do with his influence in national politics.


Don't know what the time wasting comment is about, but public opinion in the form of Poll Tax and CND protests and the Green movement you 'regard as a reflection of tabloid screamers' ?
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Who is being selfish: me or my parents?

Post by spot »

If you have to go back thirty, forty and fifty years for your examples of protest, only one of which had the slightest effect on government (the poll tax), it only goes to show how reasonable my general position has been. CND failed, if you recall, as did Greenery when it was rampant in the 70s and 80s.

And no, the elected representatives don't decide who makes up the executive, not in any of the parties and the switch in leadership within any one party is even less frequent than national elections. For the Conservatives it was recently the Men In Grey Suits, for Labour the MPs recently had a third of the vote but in either case that's only for party leader - the choice of who takes cabinet positions has nothing to do with the rank and file.
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Post by Bruv »

None of the protests failed, they altered subsequent policies.

Even as we speak policies are subtly changing due to public umbrage about the Banking fiasco................that's the way it works, as I see it.
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Who is being selfish: me or my parents?

Post by spot »

CND changed what? Did we disarm? Did we abandon nuclear defence? Did Aldermaston close? Not a single aspect of CND policy has ever been reflected by any UK administration. I notice that now the Liberals are in office they still aren't implementing unilateral disarmament, shame on them.
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Who is being selfish: me or my parents?

Post by MilkMoon »

You know, another reason I was unsure about whether I should start this thread or not was because I realized that I would eventually have to reveal my location in order to get more useful advice. I did figure that in doing that there would be a high possibility of this turning into either a religious or political argument instead of family advice, which happens to be the forum this thread is located on. Indeed, it does seem to have morphed into a sort of political argument; why, this page alone has very little to do with my original question, with all the posts - except one - fitting that criteria.

I think I was hoping for responses related to the subject matter, like maybe what happens to people who runaway, how hard is it to find employment or a safe place to stay, what it's like living on a college campus, how to apply for citizenship somewhere and to what degree it's possible for someone like me....and even basic things, like how you know what to do in an airport (don't get me wrong - I have travelled to many places, but always with family, so they organized everything and I figured it would sound suspicious if I started asking questions about how it's done). I also thought perhaps people would ask questions in order to gain a deeper understanding of the situation, and perhaps help me somehow. Instead, I'm being asked how old I am, and not to see whether I'm a legal adult or not, but just because my English happens to be of a relatively high standard. Thank you, by the way, to the two people who said so. However, I'm sure you realize I'm not really looking for compliments about my writing, flattering though they may be.

The morphing of the topic may have been partly my fault, as I guess I did somehow encourage the argument (which, as I think I mentioned before, I couldn't really help, as the situation here for women is a touchy subject for me), and possibly because I didn't clarify what I wanted advice on in particular. I don't really know what I expected though - I'm not sure how much forums can help with topics as delicate and uncertain as this.
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Who is being selfish: me or my parents?

Post by spot »

Why the hell you think anyone here knows the answers to questions like that I can't begin to imagine, the problems you describe went out of fashion in the West back when Harriet Beecher Stowe was documenting the Underground Railroad. Wouldn't the people with the most relevant experience and information be other Saudis?
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Post by Accountable »

MilkMoon;1394276 wrote: You know, another reason I was unsure about whether I should start this thread or not was because I realized that I would eventually have to reveal my location in order to get more useful advice. I did figure that in doing that there would be a high possibility of this turning into either a religious or political argument instead of family advice, which happens to be the forum this thread is located on. Indeed, it does seem to have morphed into a sort of political argument; why, this page alone has very little to do with my original question, with all the posts - except one - fitting that criteria.

I think I was hoping for responses related to the subject matter, like maybe what happens to people who runaway, how hard is it to find employment or a safe place to stay, what it's like living on a college campus, how to apply for citizenship somewhere and to what degree it's possible for someone like me....and even basic things, like how you know what to do in an airport (don't get me wrong - I have travelled to many places, but always with family, so they organized everything and I figured it would sound suspicious if I started asking questions about how it's done). I also thought perhaps people would ask questions in order to gain a deeper understanding of the situation, and perhaps help me somehow. Instead, I'm being asked how old I am, and not to see whether I'm a legal adult or not, but just because my English happens to be of a relatively high standard. Thank you, by the way, to the two people who said so. However, I'm sure you realize I'm not really looking for compliments about my writing, flattering though they may be.

The morphing of the topic may have been partly my fault, as I guess I did somehow encourage the argument (which, as I think I mentioned before, I couldn't really help, as the situation here for women is a touchy subject for me), and possibly because I didn't clarify what I wanted advice on in particular. I don't really know what I expected though - I'm not sure how much forums can help with topics as delicate and uncertain as this.


And there ya go. You asked for advice and people gave it. Then, as conversations tend to do, we trended off in a fairly sensible direction. I'm sure any family gathering would find the same thing happening when adults sit and talk.
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Post by Betty Boop »

We don't know how to help is certainly true. Had you landed on our shores and were in need of help we'd have been of more use I'm sure. Do you know of any women that have gone abroad and studied alone? They are the ones to talk to and gain knowledge from and hopefully to help you persuade your parents that it's an ok thing to do, after all you are asking your parents to go against the lay of the land out there, you're not just asking for THEM to change their minds and attitudes.

I hope you stay around and join in the forum where you can, let us know of any little or big breakthroughs you experience.
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Post by Saint_ »

Actually, I do know the answers to all those questions. I have been homeless before, I put myself through college three times without any loans or scholarships, and I've been living on my own since I was a teen, paying all my own bills.

The answer is: Desire and Hard Work. Literally. That's all.

No job is beneath you when you're on your own and unemployed. I worked at mcDonald's to pay for my first apartment and buy my first car. I went to school during the day and worked at night. Later, I worked as a night security guard to put myself through college the first time, and the second time. School by day, work by night, pay the bills, that's all there is to it, really. Get a roommate and the job gets easier. I had roommates until I was 30 years old. It's a tough life, and exhausting, but when you're young you are capable of those kinds of things.

If you truly desire the things you are talking about, if you want it enough and are willing to work extremely hard, you can make it come true.
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Post by MilkMoon »

spot;1394283 wrote: Why the hell you think anyone here knows the answers to questions like that I can't begin to imagine, the problems you describe went out of fashion in the West back when Harriet Beecher Stowe was documenting the Underground Railroad. Wouldn't the people with the most relevant experience and information be other Saudis?


So you're telling me there's no chance that people will have have a bit of information to offer about how to find part-time employment or how hard it might be to do so, or what it's like living on a college campus? That's ridiculous. You do realize I'm not talking about Saudi Arabia, right? I told you more than once that I'm hoping to study - and hopefully work - abroad. Also, I find it hard to believe that you don't know what to do in airport, spot. Besides, I wasn't actually addressing you. I realized from your very first few posts that you would be of no help to me.

So once more, let me repeat - I am not talking about Saudi Arabia. Do you think I'm stupid? Why would I ask people about finding a job, living on a college campus, etc. if I was talking about Saudi Arabia? I thought it was obvious I wasn't taking about there, as I only said the word abroad about a hundred times.
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Post by Betty Boop »

MilkMoon;1394305 wrote: So you're telling me there's no chance that people will have have a bit of information to offer about how to find part-time employment or how hard it might be to do so, or what it's like living on a college campus? That's ridiculous. You do realize I'm not talking about Saudi Arabia, right? I told you more than once that I'm hoping to study - and hopefully work - abroad. Also, I find it hard to believe that you don't know what to do in airport, spot. Besides, I wasn't actually addressing you. I realized from your very first few posts that you would be of no help to me.

So once more, let me repeat - I am not talking about Saudi Arabia. Do you think I'm stupid? Why would I ask people about finding a job, living on a college campus, etc. if I was talking about Saudi Arabia? I thought it was obvious I wasn't taking about there, as I only said the word abroad about a hundred times.


Certainly for the UK universities here are set up to help you out every step of the way;

The UK has a long history of welcoming international students to study in its universities and colleges. In the UK last year there were 1.8 million full-time undergraduate students in higher education, which included over 104,000 international students.

There are people at each university and college who are ready to answer your questions, help you through the application process and support you while you are in the UK. Many universities and colleges organise a programme of events before you start your course to welcome you and to help you make new friends and get used to your new surroundings.

Social and cultural activities are often run for international students throughout the year. Universities and colleges also provide a variety of clubs and societies that you may wish to join. For more information about studying in Britain, go to the Education UK website.



UCAS - Non-UK students

It's years since I've flown anywhere so remembering it step by step is a little hard :wah: Maybe this site can help give you an idea.

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Who is being selfish: me or my parents?

Post by Saint_ »

MilkMoon;1394305 wrote: So you're telling me there's no chance that people will have have a bit of information to offer about how to find part-time employment


With your English skills, finding employment will be a breeze. Write up a resume, and don't sell yourself short. You have experience. Ever mow a lawn? You have landscaping experience. Ever fix a car? You have automotive repair experience. You get the idea. Here in the U.S., stores don't have to give you an application if they are not hiring. It's their money that printed them, why should they waste their money if they're not hiring?

But what many people don't know is that it's illegal for them to refuse to accept a resume. That's your paper, after all! And it's discrimination as well. So if you ask for an application and they say, "I'm sorry, but we're not hiring right now, you say, "That's OK, would you mind putting my resume on file in case something comes up?" You'd be amazed at the number of times I've put out resumes to places that weren't hiring only to come home and find a message on machine telling me to come in for an interview with them!

How many resumes can you put out in a day? I used to get 50 printed up and see if I could get all of them out in a weekend. You are only limited by your desire and your stamina. (At the time I was riding a bicycle!)

or how hard it might be to do so, or what it's like living on a college campus?
As for living at college, the Student Services people will arrange everything for you. (They will also hook you up with scholarship applications, again, the more the merrier. Fill out as many as you can. That's something I only learned after it was too late.) All you have to do is walk in and talk to them, but personally, I never liked dorm life. I always had my own apartment with a roommate (preferably female and preferably someone I was romantically involved with... but you takes what you can get). Twice I've lived in a house with up to seven roommates. That's even cheaper, but much tougher on the nerves.

A couple of rules there: Make sure to pick roommates you are compatible with, since it's almost a marriage of sorts. Never mess with your roommates stuff or their food without permission. Most colleges are surrounded by low rent apartments. Ask around to find some that are older but still nice. You'll save money. Don't live too near the college either, those areas are usually higher in crime and bad influences. Learn to cook. Seriously. You'd be amazed how much money you can save by cooking for yourself.

You'll need a minimum of $600 to set out (that's the cheapest I've ever done it) but more is better, so get a job right now and start saving. Surely your parents will let you work, won't they? If not, they are being overprotective to the point of damaging your growth and independence. Self-reliance and independent responsibility are vital skills for any adult.

Remember, no job is beneath you when you are unemployed. I hear kids say stuff like "I'd never work there!" these days. Well, try starving and see how you feel after that. Get a job, any job, and then while you're working there, keep looking for a better one.

I've had way over 100 jobs in my lifetime, everything from gas stations, quicky-marts, and asphalt gangs to corporate chef, fighter pilot, and educator. So here's one last piece of advice: get educated. No matter how long it takes or how hard it is on you. (My third college degree took me seven years to complete!) Everyone starts at the bottom, but the educated ones move up while the others stagnate. Education will make people give you a shot at things. It creates opportunities. What you do after you get the chance is up to you.
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Post by spot »

MilkMoon;1394305 wrote: You do realize I'm not talking about Saudi Arabia, right? I told you more than once that I'm hoping to study - and hopefully work - abroad. Also, I find it hard to believe that you don't know what to do in airport, spot. Besides, I wasn't actually addressing you. I realized from your very first few posts that you would be of no help to me.
That's not what I took from your opening post, I saw the main hurdle to be discussed as "I'm not in a place where I can up and leave when I turn 18. Where I'm from, no matter my age, I need my father's official signature to leave the country. Without it, I'm screwed". It's also where the issue of your age cropped up.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

It is true you were of no help to milkmoon, spot. In fact, your reasoning of her cultural duty was so hostile and uncaring for her aspirations I just about choked. Was hoping you were merely playing devil's advocate for conversation's sake.
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Post by Saint_ »

Oh, I almost forgot about the airports. They are a pain for everyone, but you must realize that they are designed to be used by people who have never been there before! Travelers! Yes, they are usually very big and crowded, but they have a WEALTH of signs and directions to follow. Just about everything except a big arrow painted on the floor telling you where to go. (Some even have that!)

They have monitors every few meters so you can never get lost, and the airport employees will always answer any question you can't figure out yourself, so don't be afraid to ask directions.

What happens is this:

You buy a ticket. Either at the desk as you walk in or online.

You check in at that desk.

They tag your luggage and ship it out to the plane.

They give you a boarding pass (It's got your seat number on it, and you can't get on the plane without it, so don't lose it!)

You then go through security, you can go back out if you forgot something, but you'll have to go through security again.

After that, you just follow the signs to your loading gate (also on the boarding pass)

They'll have monitors that show when you flight is arriving and boarding, but they'll announce it many times over a speaker in case you're in the bathroom.

You play videogames, have a drink at the bar, or watch TV until you board.

At the other end of the flight, you get off the plane, go to a nearby area to get your luggage as it's unloaded from the plane, and leave the airport.

It's a very streamlined and simple process, actually. Considering the number of people involved.
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Post by Betty Boop »

AnneBoleyn;1394316 wrote: It is true you were of no help to milkmoon, spot. In fact, your reasoning of her cultural duty was so hostile and uncaring for her aspirations I just about choked. Was hoping you were merely playing devil's advocate for conversation's sake.


That's the trouble with the written word and with the interpretation of Spot's particular brand of comment :wah: it often leaves you wondering what on earth he actually means. Even so, if Milkmoon were to land in Bristol tomorrow you can bet that Spot would be at the airport to help her get from there to the uni and would be putting her in contact with all the local people he could muster up to assist her.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Betty Boop;1394324 wrote: That's the trouble with the written word and with the interpretation of Spot's particular brand of comment :wah: it often leaves you wondering what on earth he actually means. Even so, if Milkmoon were to land in Bristol tomorrow you can bet that Spot would be at the airport to help her get from there to the uni and would be putting her in contact with all the local people he could muster up to assist her.
I definitely believe that Betty. Spot is a complex man, but a good one.
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Betty Boop;1394324 wrote: That's the trouble with the written word and with the interpretation of Spot's particular brand of comment :wah: it often leaves you wondering what on earth he actually means. Even so, if Milkmoon were to land in Bristol tomorrow you can bet that Spot would be at the airport to help her get from there to the uni and would be putting her in contact with all the local people he could muster up to assist her.


That is so true, Betty...
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Post by MilkMoon »

Betty Boop;1394300 wrote: We don't know how to help is certainly true. Had you landed on our shores and were in need of help we'd have been of more use I'm sure. Do you know of any women that have gone abroad and studied alone?


Actually I do, I have two female relatives living alone in London right now, and I think I may contact them when the time comes.

Thank you very much for your answers, Saint. That was more the kind of advice I was looking for, your responses are much appreciated.

You'll need a minimum of $600 to set out (that's the cheapest I've ever done it) but more is better, so get a job right now and start saving. Surely your parents will let you work, won't they? If not, they are being overprotective to the point of damaging your growth and independence. Self-reliance and independent responsibility are vital skills for any adult.


Yes, well, it's not really a matter of my parents standing in the way of getting a part-time job, but mostly the place I'm in. I'm sure I can find an alternative way to raise money though. I'll have a whole two years at the UAE to raise money to pay for the remaining two I spend abroad. Also, if the going gets rough, I've never much cared for jewelry and family heirlooms, and I have quite a few expensive pieces that have been given to me as presents, so that could be another way for me to start saving.

I do have some more questions for you, though. You said you were homeless, and that you got through college without loans or scholarships. So does that mean you took a couple years off after leaving high school to raise money, and when you found yourself with no place to stay, what did you do? Did you rely on welfare for a bit or something?

P.S. In regards to the airport question - well, how about landing somewhere? What should you have preplanned upon your arrival, other than your hotel booking and all?
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Post by Betty Boop »

MilkMoon;1394337 wrote: Actually I do, I have two female relatives living alone in London right now, and I think I may contact them when the time comes.


They most certainly will be the ideal people to help. Good luck and I should imagine they are going to be willing to support you in every way they can.
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Post by MilkMoon »

Betty Boop;1394340 wrote: They most certainly will be the ideal people to help. Good luck and I should imagine they are going to be willing to support you in every way they can.


I'm not too sure about that. You see, their side of the family are very open-minded and wealthy people, which means that they left home with their parents support and consent. They didn't runaway, so I'm not sure how they would react to me showing up on their doorstep. There's always the chance that they will reject me, or that their loyalty to my family will result in them exposing me. I don't know if I can take that risk. The safest bet would be one of my tutors; though I didn't tell her everything I told all of you, she guessed what I was planning, and promised she'd help me. Problem is, I learnt a long time ago not to count on people. Everyone makes all sorts of promises, but not that many people actually go through with them. So I don't know.
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Post by Betty Boop »

MilkMoon;1394342 wrote: I'm not too sure about that. You see, their side of the family are very open-minded and wealthy people, which means that they left home with their parents support and consent. They didn't runaway, so I'm not sure how they would react to me showing up on their doorstep. There's always the chance that they will reject me, or that their loyalty to my family will result in them exposing me. I don't know if I can take that risk. The safest bet would be one of my tutors; though I didn't tell her everything I told all of you, she guessed what I was planning, and promised she'd help me. Problem is, I learnt a long time ago not to count on people. Everyone makes all sorts of promises, but not that many people actually go through with them. So I don't know.


Do you really feel you will NEVER achieve your parents consent? How are these relatives getting on in London? Can they not be held up as examples of how beneficial studying abroad could be?

I also realise that if you could achieve consent the money side is still a major problem. All the international students I met at uni recently were funded by their parents, none of them worked and I have no idea on the legal issues regarding yourself gaining employment once here.
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Post by Clodhopper »

While Saint is absolutely right about what you can achieve through hard work and not being too proud (I once worked as a queue attendant and cleaner at Chessington World of Adventures when I had no other way to pay the bills) he was and is a legal resident of his country, as I am of mine. It is definitely more difficult if you are an illegal immigrant in this country - employers are supposed to make checks on people they employ these days. The USA is different, but I don't know how, exactly, and I did notice that Saint was speaking of what you can do if you have a legal right to be there. I think getting your degree and looking at applications for citizenship while you do that (and perhaps do as Saint suggests and get an evening job waiting tables) is your best way ahead. Running away really is an absolute last resort.

I had a look at the UK government website on citizenship applications and basically it's very complex and depends on your situation. As Betty points out, your Uni will likely have an organisation that can help you with this, either directly or by pointing you to another organisation which does deal with your issue. The website itself recommends a solicitor. Another point is that the immigration rules changed in April this year and might again.

You might consider places like Canada, New Zealand and Australia as well. They have historically been more open to immigration, but again you'd have to check the current situation.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Clodhopper;1394471 wrote: While Saint is absolutely right about what you can achieve through hard work and not being too proud (I once worked as a queue attendant and cleaner at Chessington World of Adventures when I had no other way to pay the bills) he was and is a legal resident of his country, as I am of mine. It is definitely more difficult if you are an illegal immigrant in this country - employers are supposed to make checks on people they employ these days. The USA is different, but I don't know how, exactly, and I did notice that Saint was speaking of what you can do if you have a legal right to be there. I think getting your degree and looking at applications for citizenship while you do that (and perhaps do as Saint suggests and get an evening job waiting tables) is your best way ahead. Running away really is an absolute last resort.

I had a look at the UK government website on citizenship applications and basically it's very complex and depends on your situation. As Betty points out, your Uni will likely have an organisation that can help you with this, either directly or by pointing you to another organisation which does deal with your issue. The website itself recommends a solicitor. Another point is that the immigration rules changed in April this year and might again.

You might consider places like Canada, New Zealand and Australia as well. They have historically been more open to immigration, but again you'd have to check the current situation.


Sorry Clod but that Is complete cobblers...

All she has to do Is board a flight to the UK. On getting off that plane, she states she Is seeking asylum. She will be given accomodation while her case Is being dealt with. Once her case Is heard, she will be able to work and study.

In a thread as serious as this, please try to get your facts right because your post Is completely misleading.

Of course It's more difficult If you are Illegal... If she comes In and claims asylum, she won't be Illegal.
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Post by Bruv »

I think they are not allowed to work, but are supported until such time their claim is allowed.......

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Bruv;1394489 wrote: I think they are not allowed to work, but are supported until such time their claim is allowed.......

Here and Here


I did say... 'Once her case Is heard, she will be able to work and study'..... But your right... she'd be supported financially and given accomodation while her case Is decided.
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Post by spot »

oscar;1394487 wrote: All she has to do Is board a flight to the UK. On getting off that plane, she states she Is seeking asylum. She will be given accomodation while her case Is being dealt with. Once her case Is heard, she will be able to work and study.Of relevance, then:While the British government does not release statistics on Saudi Arabian asylum seekers, the number of applicants is believed to be low. Cases of Saudis requesting asylum are kept under wraps by both governments. British law requires asylum seekers to prove that they are unable to return to their country of citizenship due to a number of factors [...] "People can be granted asylum on the basis of all kinds of factors but women’s rights has been quite controversial as a basis for asylum claims," Lagnado said.

Saudi Princess Avoids Death by Stoning with UK Asylum : womensgrid



To get a feel for the magnitudes involved, the number of Saudi citizens in the process of claiming asylum anywhere in the world in January 2011 according to UNHCR was roughly 80.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1394492 wrote: Of relevance, then:While the British government does not release statistics on Saudi Arabian asylum seekers, the number of applicants is believed to be low. Cases of Saudis requesting asylum are kept under wraps by both governments. British law requires asylum seekers to prove that they are unable to return to their country of citizenship due to a number of factors [...] "People can be granted asylum on the basis of all kinds of factors but women’s rights has been quite controversial as a basis for asylum claims," Lagnado said.

Saudi Princess Avoids Death by Stoning with UK Asylum : womensgrid



To get a feel for the magnitudes involved, the number of Saudi citizens in the process of claiming asylum anywhere in the world in January 2011 according to UNHCR was roughly 80.


Believed to be low. Believed? There you have It In a nutshell ( or should that be nut shell ) Believed.

You have no more Idea than anyone else.... regardless... It's Immaterial. If there are low numbers, who' to say she would not qualify ?
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Post by spot »

oscar;1394495 wrote: Believed to be low. Believed? There you have It In a nutshell ( or should that be nut shell ) Believed.

You have no more Idea than anyone else.... regardless... It's Immaterial. If there are low numbers, who' to say she would not qualify ?


To get a feel for the magnitudes involved, the number of Saudi citizens in the process of claiming asylum anywhere in the world in January 2011 according to UNHCR was roughly 80. That's rather fewer people than were killed by lightning.
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Post by Betty Boop »

spot;1394497 wrote: To get a feel for the magnitudes involved, the number of Saudi citizens in the process of claiming asylum anywhere in the world in January 2011 according to UNHCR was roughly 80. That's rather fewer people than were killed by lightning.


So, basically, the fact that 'women’s rights has been quite controversial as a basis for asylum claims' generally means that milkmoon probably wouldn't have a hope in hell for claiming asylum. That's how I read it anyhow.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1394497 wrote: To get a feel for the magnitudes involved, the number of Saudi citizens in the process of claiming asylum anywhere in the world in January 2011 according to UNHCR was roughly 80. That's rather fewer people than were killed by lightning.


No Spot.... It's believed to be around 80...

Does that figure stand for the month of January 2011 or since January 2011 ?

If It was for the month of January, then multiply that by 12 and 960 claiming asylum from Saudi gives a more balanced view than the view you wish others to believe.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Betty Boop;1394499 wrote: So, basically, the fact that 'women’s rights has been quite controversial as a basis for asylum claims' generally means that milkmoon probably wouldn't have a hope in hell for claiming asylum. That's how I read it anyhow.


That Is how Spot wishes to portray It.....Not as It Is..... when he's using words such as 'believed', then we should pay no attention to his psts.

The main focus should be, exactly how many women who claimed asylum from Saudi were successful In their application and not how many applied.
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Post by Betty Boop »

oscar;1394501 wrote: That Is how Spot wishes to portray It.....Not as It Is..... when he's using words such as 'believed', then we should pay no attention to his psts.

The main focus should be, exactly how many women who claimed asylum from Saudi were successful In their application and not how many applied.


Found such figures then have you? Given that 'Cases of Saudis requesting asylum are kept under wraps by both governments.' Saudi Princess Avoids Death by Stoning with UK Asylum : womensgrid

By the way, the 'believed' you are getting your knickers in a twist over is a quote from the article that was cited, so I suggest you go challenge the person that wrote it.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Betty Boop;1394502 wrote: Found such figures then have you? Given that 'Cases of Saudis requesting asylum are kept under wraps by both governments.' Saudi Princess Avoids Death by Stoning with UK Asylum : womensgrid

By the way, the 'believed' you are getting your knickers in a twist over is a quote from the article that was cited, so I suggest you go challenge the person that wrote it.
The only person who gets their knickers In a twist Is you Betty who's predictable pattern of leaping Into threads the moment anyone has disagreed with Spot has become odds on.

The point I am making Is that If we have so little exact figures to go by, then she should not be deterred by Spot's posts for he knows no more than anyone else despite thinking he Is the oracle of all wisdom and an expert on all matters. He Is not and nor are you.

My advice to Milkmoon If she Is considering claiming asylum In the UK Is to go to her nearest British Embassy In Saudi and talk It through with them.
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Post by spot »

oscar;1394500 wrote: No Spot.... It's believed to be around 80...

Does that figure stand for the month of January 2011 or since January 2011 ?

If It was for the month of January, then multiply that by 12 and 960 claiming asylum from Saudi gives a more balanced view than the view you wish others to believe.


Innumerate as well as illiterate, eh?

Your "believed" came from a different site, too. The UNHCR figure has no "believed" about it.
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Post by Betty Boop »

oscar;1394503 wrote: The only person who gets their knickers In a twist Is you Betty who's predictable pattern of leaping Into threads the moment anyone has disagreed with Spot has become odds on.

The point I am making Is that If we have so little exact figures to go by, then she should not be deterred by Spot's posts for he knows no more than anyone else despite thinking he Is the oracle of all wisdom and an expert on all matters. He Is not and nor are you.

My advice to Milkmoon If she Is considering claiming asylum In the UK Is to go to her nearest British Embassy In Saudi and talk It through with them.


But you are, evidently...
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Betty Boop;1394506 wrote: But you are, evidently...
I can state with some authority that she should seek advice from her nearest British Embassy, Yes. That's practical.

Waffling bollocks In order to deter her from even trying to get out of Saudi Is not what she came here for.... or didn't you read her posts?
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Post by Bruv »

Suspect MilkMoon will prefer to take her chances at home..........given the welcome here.

I bet if she were to find herself at Heathrow and put here hands up for asylum, we would accommodate her
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Bruv;1394508 wrote: Suspect MilkMoon will prefer to take her chances at home..........given the welcome here.

I bet if she were to find herself at Heathrow and put here hands up for asylum, we would accommodate her


I would help her....

I just hope she's not put off by the posts telling her she should be grateful for her lot In life.
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Post by koan »

MilkMoon;1394276 wrote: ...

I think I was hoping for responses related to the subject matter, like maybe what happens to people who runaway, how hard is it to find employment or a safe place to stay, what it's like living on a college campus, how to apply for citizenship somewhere and to what degree it's possible for someone like me....and even basic things, like how you know what to do in an airport (don't get me wrong - I have travelled to many places, but always with family, so they organized everything and I figured it would sound suspicious if I started asking questions about how it's done). I also thought perhaps people would ask questions in order to gain a deeper understanding of the situation, and perhaps help me somehow. Instead, I'm being asked how old I am, and not to see whether I'm a legal adult or not, but just because my English happens to be of a relatively high standard. Thank you, by the way, to the two people who said so. However, I'm sure you realize I'm not really looking for compliments about my writing, flattering though they may be.

...
Thus far you have developed a sympathetic sob story, presented yourself as a young girl, given implications of a dark sexual past and vulnerability, then clarified that you're hoping to get help leaving your country (good way to get money). I suggest anyone feeling sorry for you check out another of your threads where we are explaining why you are not who you claim. http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/fitne ... level.html

I'm bumping this thread with that comment so that your ploy is given reference for anyone who doesn't see the other thread.
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Post by Bruv »

So what should I do with the Milkmoon Fund to enable her escape........raised at my local church ?
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Post by Snooz »

Send the money to Flopstock for some new running shoes.

Ya know, I didn't like Milkmoon's dismissive posts in this thread and liked them even less in the exercise thread. It just seemed "off" for someone seeking information/help to be so rude. Although I can't imagine why someone pretending to be someone else would be an ass since it would be more likely to draw attention to their deception. Weird.
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Post by flopstock »

SnoozeAgain;1405668 wrote: Send the money to Flopstock for some new running shoes.



Ya know, I didn't like Milkmoon's dismissive posts in this thread and liked them even less in the exercise thread. It just seemed "off" for someone seeking information/help to be so rude. Although I can't imagine why someone pretending to be someone else would be an ass since it would be more likely to draw attention to their deception. Weird.


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Post by weelynnie »

This site helped me tremendously a couple of years ago, but this OP (Original Poster) is playing with us. This poster is a native English speaker (either British English or American English: take your pick) and I really feel that if she REALLY wanted our help, she'd have been truthful in her posts. Girl, get your act together and I certainly would not put forward any money for your 'escape'. I also believe that 'her' other posts on other timelines show her to be someone that is leading us on, that's assuming that she is a 'her'. Could be a man for all we know
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Post by Betty Boop »

weelynnie;1406961 wrote: This site helped me tremendously a couple of years ago, but this OP (Original Poster) is playing with us. This poster is a native English speaker (either British English or American English: take your pick) and I really feel that if she REALLY wanted our help, she'd have been truthful in her posts. Girl, get your act together and I certainly would not put forward any money for your 'escape'. I also believe that 'her' other posts on other timelines show her to be someone that is leading us on, that's assuming that she is a 'her'. Could be a man for all we know


Hello, welcome back, hope all is well for you :-6
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Post by weelynnie »

Betty Boop;1406987 wrote: Hello, welcome back, hope all is well for you :-6


Thanks, Betty. Yes, everything is rosy. He eventually saw the error of his ways, after a year and a lot of hard work on my part, and has spent the last 18 months apologising and making it up to me. He has actually stopped using his laptop and rarely goes on the Internet except occasionally and then he uses MY laptop and he knows fine well I could find out anything he'd been up to on here.
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Post by koan »

The internet can be dangerous in some ways because you can be anyone you want to be... but it's good in the way that it keeps a record of what was said. When people say something or do something in normal life it's just your word against theirs. When they say it online it's usually there for the public record.

I'm glad you worked things out. I hope it brought peace to your relationship as well as justice.

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