How should you express an opinion here?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:18 pm

Is it good enough to just state your opinion and leave it at that?

Should you state your opinion and also find back up for arriving at your opinion?

If you are stating certain things as fact do you need to back that up or should the membership just believe you because you know best?

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:46 pm

Facts and opinions are two different things.

One may have an opinion and express why they came to that opinion.

If one states a fact, it would be interesting to add more information on that fact. It's fun to learn something new. JMO

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:48 pm

State your opinion however you want to state it. I don't think

you have to back anything up or work to search for facts. But I also

don't think the membership as a whole should just outright believe

you, of course some will/might but there's always others who are smarter

than to do that.

It's the internet. Take everything with a very large grain of salt!

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:48 am

To simply state an opinion is one thing, and perfectly valid in itself.

To give a reason for having reached that opinion, be it by citable fact, or personal experience, gives reinforcement to it & explains why you hold that opinion.

That's my opinion, anyway.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:56 am

Facts and opinions as along for the ride says are two differnt things. It's up to you, it's a discussion forum if you don't want to discuss things why bother?

Why should we believe you know best especially when it's only your opinion that you know best:D

If you can't back up your opinion or explain why you hold it then it's not your opinion you're just repeating something you've heard - in my opinion that is.

Just enjoy go with th flow.

Post by **jones jones** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:52 am

Betty Boop;1457882 wrote: Is it good enough to just state your opinion and leave it at that?

Should you state your opinion and also find back up for arriving at your opinion?

If you are stating certain things as fact do you need to back that up or should the membership just believe you because you know best?

A good question Ms Boop.

First prize on any thread in any forum on any Social site would be stating your view on a subject and thereafter have members post a reply in which they in turn state their own opinion on that subject without making personal remarks. An opinion after all is simply a judgement formed about something that is not necessarily based on fact.

The same should apply to facts about an actual event that has occurred. Meaningful debate on an opinion or a fact is difficult once taken off topic and the person instead of the ball is played.

But that's just my opinion.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:41 am

Betty Boop;1457882 wrote: Is it good enough to just state your opinion and leave it at that?

I think it's up to you. If no one reples then you feel like an idiot if you've done a lot of leg work for nothing. If someone finds it interesting they will tell you so. And if they disagree then they may very well ask you for motivation.

This is a discussion board - not a final exam to your doctorate degree. If someone has no patience or tolerance, then you're not going to get a useful dialog going with that person anyway.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:15 am

Put It this way. Since childhood, I have come to believe dogs are better companions than cats.

Now..

Do you want me to load everything I've ever read and all personal experiences that lead me to my opinion since childhood?

theia · Post by **theia** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:19 am

This thread has started me wondering what is a "fact." I've googled it and am still confused. Can someone help?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:20 am

Oscar Namechange;1457920 wrote: Since childhood, I have come to believe dogs are better companions than cats.

Now..

Do you want me to load everything I've ever read and all personal experiences that lead me to my opinion since childhood?

Yes, yes do! I like dogs too!

Post by **Chloe_88** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:32 am

FourPart;1457895 wrote: To simply state an opinion is one thing, and perfectly valid in itself.

To give a reason for having reached that opinion, be it by citable fact, or personal experience, gives reinforcement to it & explains why you hold that opinion.

That's my opinion, anyway.

I agree. It gives someone insight why you feel a certain way about a certain subject. Hearing people state their opinion and why it is that way, sometimes makes me think twice about mine. Well maybe not twice about how I feel but more understanding for why their opinion is the way it is.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:11 pm

Oscar Namechange;1457920 wrote: Put It this way. Since childhood, I have come to believe dogs are better companions than cats.

Now..

Do you want me to load everything I've ever read and all personal experiences that lead me to my opinion since childhood?

Only if you must, use the daily mail as a source if you like :sneaky:

One thing I would add - someone disagreeing with you is not the same thing as a personal attack.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:17 pm

High Threshold;1457915 wrote: I think it's up to you. If no one reples then you feel like an idiot if you've done a lot of leg work for nothing. If someone finds it interesting they will tell you so. And if they disagree then they may very well ask you for motivation.

This is a discussion board - not a final exam to your doctorate degree. If someone has no patience or tolerance, then you're not going to get a useful dialog going with that person anyway.

I second that emotion.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:27 pm

gmc;1457929 wrote: Only if you must, use the daily mail as a source if you like :sneaky:

One thing I would add - someone disagreeing with you is not the same thing as a personal attack. That's a difficulty for some.

In my opinion, Jeremy Clarkson Is a wanker.... I'll spend the next 6 weeks loading every Top Gear episode.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:29 pm

Facts are only other people's opinion according to some, it wouldn't matter how many scientific facts you throw at a creationist wouldn't budge their conviction as to truth.

Who said what and when, can be proved, statistics are open to interpretation, sources of 'facts' are sometimes questionable.

Give your opinion and try to back it up with a credible source...........what more can you do?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:30 pm

Oscar Namechange;1457934 wrote: That's a difficulty for some.

In my opinion, Jeremy Clarkson Is a wanker.... I'll spend the next 6 weeks loading every Top Gear episode.

That will keep you busy..........it goes back over ten years

theia · Post by **theia** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:39 pm

Bruv;1457943 wrote: Facts are only other people's opinion according to some, it wouldn't matter how many scientific facts you throw at a creationist wouldn't budge their conviction as to truth.

Who said what and when, can be proved, statistics are open to interpretation, sources of 'facts' are sometimes questionable.

Give your opinion and try to back it up with a credible source...........what more can you do?

But, if it's your opinion, why do you need a credible source? There could be, and probably is as many opinions as people.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:45 pm

Oscar Namechange;1457934 wrote: That's a difficulty for some.

In my opinion, Jeremy Clarkson Is a wanker.... I'll spend the next 6 weeks loading every Top Gear episode.

Here's an opinion and a fact. Nick Griffin is a fat oily tosser.

Irrefutable, I'd say

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:49 pm

theia;1457945 wrote: But, if it's your opinion, why do you need a credible source? There could be, and probably is as many opinions as people.

And try to be more eloquent in phrasing your reply ?

When I said 'opinion' I meant ...........a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge........such Political bias or similar.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:54 pm

There are 2 types of fact. Absolute & Abstract.

The Absolute is that which can be proved by documentary evidence.

The Abstract is something that something that exists with without hard reason.

An opinion may be formed by either.

I am of the opinion that I exist, because I can see, hear, touch, etc. These are absolute facts.

However, there is also the "I think, therefore I am", where it may be a fact that I think, but can a thought be defined as an absolute or a abstract thing, plus is the fact that I think the reason that I am, or is the fact that I am the reason why I think?

I'm pink. Therefore I'm Spam.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:55 pm

Good input guys, keep it going, it's thought provoking for sure!

In the real world I am experiencing having my opinions trod on and the other person shouting over me and going on and on to drive home the point.

For me, it makes me roll my eyes, sit back and let that person just go on wondering if everyone else is also thinking 'oh give it a rest' :wah:

It's the first person I've come across for a long while that won't listen then agree to disagree, which is something I am used to doing with friends!

Obviously when sat face to face with someone you can't back up your opinions with quotes, well some people have memories like elephants and probably can, but not me.

When writing within this environment it has become second nature for me to back things up and I fear that comes from taking a degree where you have to back up everything you say in essays.

theia · Post by **theia** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:39 pm

FourPart;1457948 wrote: There are 2 types of fact. Absolute & Abstract.

The Absolute is that which can be proved by documentary evidence.

The Abstract is something that something that exists with without hard reason.

An opinion may be formed by either.

I am of the opinion that I exist, because I can see, hear, touch, etc. These are absolute facts.

However, there is also the "I think, therefore I am", where it may be a fact that I think, but can a thought be defined as an absolute or a abstract thing, plus is the fact that I think the reason that I am, or is the fact that I am the reason why I think?

I'm pink. Therefore I'm Spam.

Your post has given me much food for thought, so many questions arise from it.

Could I think without being? What is a thought? Is existence an absolute fact? Love it!

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:51 am

Yes but Theia, how can you take anything seriously from somebody that ends their input with "I'm pink, Therefore I am" ?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:31 am

FourPart;1457948 wrote: There are 2 types of fact. Absolute & Abstract.

The Absolute is that which can be proved by documentary evidence.

The Abstract is something that something that exists with without hard reason.

An opinion may be formed by either.

I am of the opinion that I exist, because I can see, hear, touch, etc. These are absolute facts.

However, there is also the "I think, therefore I am", where it may be a fact that I think, but can a thought be defined as an absolute or a abstract thing, plus is the fact that I think the reason that I am, or is the fact that I am the reason why I think?

I'm pink. Therefore I'm Spam.

Brilliant!

Missed this as I posted and crawled to bed.

Reckon we need a whole new thread for 'best response of the week', you'd win this week!

I think... :-3

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:33 am

Bruv;1457960 wrote: Yes but Theia, how can you take anything seriously from somebody that ends their input with "I'm pink, Therefore I am" ?

This is true, Bruv. I've been well and truly duped again!

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:41 am

Bruv;1457960 wrote: Yes but Theia, how can you take anything seriously from somebody that ends their input with "I'm pink, Therefore I am" ?
I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam, if you please.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:07 am

theia;1457962 wrote: This is true, Bruv. I've been well and truly duped again!

Didn't Chonsi say that too??

I am...

Not Spam!

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:16 am

theia;1457962 wrote: This is true, Bruv. I've been well and truly duped again!

FourPart;1457963 wrote: I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam, if you please.

My apologies FourPart.....

I could edit my post..........but it should stand to prove my earlier post 19 saying "And try to be more eloquent in phrasing your reply ?" with the addition "And Correct"

Which strangely enough shows how misunderstandings and strife occur online. I shall copy and paste next time.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:26 am

FourPart;1457948 wrote:

I am of the opinion that I exist, because I can see, hear, touch, etc. These are absolute facts..

Those are not "facts." 4X4=16 is a fact...possibly. But everything you see, hear, and touch is nothing more than electrochemical signals transmitted to your brain and the resulting interpretation of your brain of that sensory data. Deprived of input, the brain will generate it's own sensory data and your hallucinations will be EXACTLY as real as what you just called "existence."

Here's an example:

What color is this? Red, right? But the "red" you see and the red I see are two completely different things. You might see this as what I would call "green" but you've been taught that this color is "red" and so have I. So, even though we are seeing two different things, we use the same name for it.

One of the first and most important things they taught us as fighter pilots in the Air Force was, "Don't trust your senses." A sloping cloud bank can convince the brain that you are flying straight and level when you are actually in a death spiral.

So saying that "I can sense it" has nothing to do with something being a "fact."

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:30 am

AnneBoleyn;1457931 wrote: I second that emotion.

Smokey Robinson.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:40 am

Shouldn't that be an option on the pull down menu next your name? "I am: spam"

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:50 am

So, opinion can be arrived at through studying fact?

Should you base opinion on what you can see around you alone? Would that not be akin to judging someone/something without knowing the reality

An opinion is not a fact? For me it isn't, although someone was arguing in the big brother house that opinion is indeed fact very loudly last night, might have been Helen.

So a fact is a verifiable truth?

What are facts and opinions?

Feel free to get back to the philosophical side too :wah:

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:00 am

Betty Boop;1457882 wrote: How should you express an opinion here?

Here's an opinion: I don't like cats. There, I expressed it.

Proof? I don't give a stuff. It's a fact without any proof.

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:53 am

High Threshold;1458372 wrote: Here's an opinion: I don't like cats. There, I expressed it.

Proof? I don't give a stuff. It's a fact without any proof.

Do you mean you don't like some cats?

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:03 am

In my opinion there are no facts

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:22 am

theia;1458377 wrote: In my opinion there are no facts

Now that's a fact.

theia;1458376 wrote: Do you mean you don't like some cats?

Would it help if I say that I dislike some cats more than others?

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:48 am

High Threshold;1458378 wrote: Now that's a fact.

Would it help if I say that I dislike some cats more than others?

No, not at all...haven't got a clue where I was going with that one :-5 :wah:

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:16 am

How should you express an opinion here?

Your opinion should be interesting, but not too interesting, controversial, but not too controversial, humorous, but not too humorous, complex, but not too complex, moving, but not too moving, logical, but not too logical, and emotional, but not too emotional.

In other words, nobody's ever done it right, so who cares?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:33 am

Saint_;1458385 wrote: How should you express an opinion here?

Your opinion should be interesting, but not too interesting, controversial, but not too controversial, humorous, but not too humorous, complex, but not too complex, moving, but not too moving, logical, but not too logical, and emotional, but not too emotional.

In other words, nobody's ever done it right, so who cares?

I object on the grounds..................I disagree.

Nobody should be that reasonable.

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:45 am

Bruv;1458387 wrote: I object on the grounds..................I disagree.

Nobody should be that reasonable.

I agree with you, Bruv. The BB house is currently a good example of unreasonable behaviour (but then I don't have to tell you or Snowfire that as I know what big fans you are of the programme)

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:52 am

theia;1458388 wrote: I agree with you, Bruv. The BB house is currently a good example of unreasonable behaviour (but then I don't have to tell you or Snowfire that as I know what big fans you are of the programme)

BB........Brigitte Bardot ? I used to be a fan........but she went a bit weird

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:57 am

Bruv;1458390 wrote: BB........Brigitte Bardot ? I used to be a fan........but she went a bit weird

Big Brother

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:08 am

theia;1458379 wrote: No, not at all...haven't got a clue where I was going with that one :-5 :wah:

Don't even try it. I know very well you wanted to dip me in the brown stuff, with all of these cat lovers on FG.

theia;1458391 wrote: Big Brother

Is that your opinion or a fact?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:29 am

HT, I really regret giving you that cat. You don't deserve a cat. I wish I could un-Gift it, but I would give you something else.

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:48 am

High Threshold;1458393 wrote: Don't even try it. I know very well you wanted to dip me in the brown stuff, with all of these cat lovers on FG.

Is that your opinion or a fact?

No actually, I was going down the black swan route and then realised that it was beyond me and probably didn't fit with what you said anyway

Definitely an opinion

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:51 am

AnneBoleyn;1458395 wrote: HT, I really regret giving you that cat. You don't deserve a cat. I wish I could un-Gift it, but I would give you something else.

I was only joking, Annie. :-6

Anyway, Tim Watley is the only one who ungifts and regifts. You don't really want to be one of those, do you?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:58 am

theia;1458396 wrote: No actually, I was going down the black swan route ......

Across the Nullarbor or down from Darwin?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:18 am

High Threshold;1458397 wrote: I was only joking, Annie. :-6

Anyway, Tim Watley is the only one who ungifts and regifts. You don't really want to be one of those, do you?

3 CATS! My cup runneth over. Gosh, thanks. I'll tell my 2 cats, Buffy & Max, to expect a new brother or sister!

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:25 am

AnneBoleyn;1458399 wrote: 3 I'll tell my 2 cats, Buffy & Max, to expect a new brother or sister!

Oh-oh! I'm sorry. I had it neutered ..... :yh_worshp

Post by **Peter Lake** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:31 am

The most informative posts here come from Saint but i disagree with most over opinion.

The entire population has opinion, even a two year old can hold an opinion on another at playgroup. It's not about opinion or how that opinion was reached and decided but the way opinion is expressed. I don't understand why anyone would tolerate another in real life who trampled over everything said. Internet is very different in that the written word is open to interpretation by the reader because that's all they have, the written word. What one see's does not necessarily dictate what others see and the written word can lead one to form an opinion that's different to real life character. Expressing opinion is the key and should be done through a courteous, mutual interaction. If it's not then the hard fact of life, is that, the person shouting you down believes your opinion counts for nothing and sometimes, unfortunately, in real life, we have to accept that not everyone we meet believes everything we say is of interest nor is of any importance.

There are times though we do have no option but to bow to one's greater knowledge and accept that life experience can speak far more than anything else. Let me give you an example. My wife and her brother recently had a debate involving some horse called My tent and she argued the jockey had taken him off the bridle way too early leaving him without the stamina in the last push for the line ultimately costing him the race. I have no idea what on earth they were talking about, likewise she does not offer any opinion when i'm discussing aircraft. That's when it comes down to respect and not opinion. I also have a degree but i have no idea what this jockey allegedly did wrong but i listened in order to maybe learn enough so next time, i may have an insight into the discussion. If someone is not allowing you to do that in real life, then they simply do not value you. That's how opinion is formed in real life but when it comes to the internet, those opinions are already formed in real life but likewise as with real life, not everyone on the internet will value your opinion. People just have to accept we don't know everything, degree or no degree.