sarasara wrote: For several years now allegations have been flying around in the US and UK liberal media and among conspiracy theorists allied to the 'Anti war pro Insurgency Coalition' that US Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld after a visit to Iraq had supplied Saddam Hussein with the chemicals used in the genocide of Kurdish villagers in Hallabja.
Help me out here. I don't know what "UK liberal media" is/are, and I *live* here. So what are they?
Rumsfeld Lie Exposed!
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Rumsfeld Lie Exposed!
posted by sarasara
For several years now allegations have been flying around in the US and UK liberal media and among conspiracy theorists allied to the 'Anti war pro Insurgency Coalition' that US Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld after a visit to Iraq had supplied Saddam Hussein with the chemicals used in the genocide of Kurdish villagers in Hallabja.
I have never seen that allegation made. But what I have seen is the allegation which rumsfeld does not deny that the US supplied Iraq with satellite intelligence of Iranian troop movements during the Iran Iraq war. The actual chemical factory machine parts are mainly european in origin.
posted by sarasara
The irrelevance of the Liberal Party in the UK means that the term liberal can now be co-opted to its use in the current American sense of the word.
No it can't. If you are actually British which you claim to be the corruption of the word liberal should set your teeth on edge. It is as a result of labelling in the US by opponents of those with liberal views, who unable to come up with any kind of rational arguement against them resort to name calling, you are a liberal, communist therfore what you say can be dismissed. It is a tactic intended to stifle free debate and which at least for the moment does not work in British politics though there are those who are trying to get us to go that way.
While I am well aware of the different connotation of the word in US parlance and consequently and circumspect when talking politics with them you, if you are British as you claim to be, should know better.
As to the irrelevance of the liberal party you may or may not have a point but at the moment they look like a better opposition prospect than the Tories.
posted by sarasara
What is most notable about the liberal media is its willingness to place its agenda before the truth. A good example being the phoney National Guard documents produced by CBS to discredit George W. Bush during the US election. In Britain the Gilligan Affair and the transposing of BBC, ITN, Channel 4 and 5 News into anti-war political parties for the duration of the Iraq war. This being done most blatantly by the BBCs Greg Dyke who fell as a consequence
Well at least it can't be said that you let the facts get in the way of a good theory. While Greg Dyke should have checked a bit more carefully on what exactly gilligan said there is little doubt that the core of the claim, namely that theintelligence dossier was altered to make the case for war, is true as confirmed by the hutton inquiry. Only a dyed in the wool Blairite clone would think otherwise. Unfortunately we have MP's more interested than keeping their jobs than doing it properly and holding Tony Blair to Account. We now have a sitiuation where the government in power may take the opportunity to emasculate an organiaation renowned world wide for the quality of its reporting.
They function of a free press is to hold the government to account, especially when they tell lies. If you don't like it maybe you should flee to america where the press seem to be incapable of criticising the us foreign policy in any meaningful manner.
The simple fact is we went to war on a false premise. Tony Blair at worst is a liar at best is an incompetent fool.
sarasara
Nor are they reporting that the countries which opposed the war; France in particular, but also Germany, Russia and China were deeply involved in the corruption of the Saddam Regime.
well gosh I knew that and probably read the same papers and watch the same news as you say you do. maybe you do not read the printed words and just look at the pictures or just look for the bits you already agree with.
Just try and remember one of the reasons you can say what you like is because you live in a liberal democracy currently governed by a party that at least used to be social democratic in nature.
For several years now allegations have been flying around in the US and UK liberal media and among conspiracy theorists allied to the 'Anti war pro Insurgency Coalition' that US Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld after a visit to Iraq had supplied Saddam Hussein with the chemicals used in the genocide of Kurdish villagers in Hallabja.
I have never seen that allegation made. But what I have seen is the allegation which rumsfeld does not deny that the US supplied Iraq with satellite intelligence of Iranian troop movements during the Iran Iraq war. The actual chemical factory machine parts are mainly european in origin.
posted by sarasara
The irrelevance of the Liberal Party in the UK means that the term liberal can now be co-opted to its use in the current American sense of the word.
No it can't. If you are actually British which you claim to be the corruption of the word liberal should set your teeth on edge. It is as a result of labelling in the US by opponents of those with liberal views, who unable to come up with any kind of rational arguement against them resort to name calling, you are a liberal, communist therfore what you say can be dismissed. It is a tactic intended to stifle free debate and which at least for the moment does not work in British politics though there are those who are trying to get us to go that way.
While I am well aware of the different connotation of the word in US parlance and consequently and circumspect when talking politics with them you, if you are British as you claim to be, should know better.
As to the irrelevance of the liberal party you may or may not have a point but at the moment they look like a better opposition prospect than the Tories.
posted by sarasara
What is most notable about the liberal media is its willingness to place its agenda before the truth. A good example being the phoney National Guard documents produced by CBS to discredit George W. Bush during the US election. In Britain the Gilligan Affair and the transposing of BBC, ITN, Channel 4 and 5 News into anti-war political parties for the duration of the Iraq war. This being done most blatantly by the BBCs Greg Dyke who fell as a consequence
Well at least it can't be said that you let the facts get in the way of a good theory. While Greg Dyke should have checked a bit more carefully on what exactly gilligan said there is little doubt that the core of the claim, namely that theintelligence dossier was altered to make the case for war, is true as confirmed by the hutton inquiry. Only a dyed in the wool Blairite clone would think otherwise. Unfortunately we have MP's more interested than keeping their jobs than doing it properly and holding Tony Blair to Account. We now have a sitiuation where the government in power may take the opportunity to emasculate an organiaation renowned world wide for the quality of its reporting.
They function of a free press is to hold the government to account, especially when they tell lies. If you don't like it maybe you should flee to america where the press seem to be incapable of criticising the us foreign policy in any meaningful manner.
The simple fact is we went to war on a false premise. Tony Blair at worst is a liar at best is an incompetent fool.
sarasara
Nor are they reporting that the countries which opposed the war; France in particular, but also Germany, Russia and China were deeply involved in the corruption of the Saddam Regime.
well gosh I knew that and probably read the same papers and watch the same news as you say you do. maybe you do not read the printed words and just look at the pictures or just look for the bits you already agree with.
Just try and remember one of the reasons you can say what you like is because you live in a liberal democracy currently governed by a party that at least used to be social democratic in nature.
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A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
Rumsfeld Lie Exposed!
It is so fascinating to read about how the liberal Americans are by someone who doesn't claim to be American. Are you in the US, at least?
Wayyy to the left or wayyy to the right looks the same to me. Extreme. Dangerous. Closed-minded. JMHO
Wayyy to the left or wayyy to the right looks the same to me. Extreme. Dangerous. Closed-minded. JMHO
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle