What is the point?

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:34 pm

Torture does work if you are careful and measured in how you use it, however, it is morally repugnant and practically dubious technique in my opinion. Its one of those questions that basically asks, is it right to use techniques that inherently go against everything you believe in, in order to protect your ability to have those beliefs. My answer is that if you believe in the concept of universal and absolute human rights, but you do not follow those beliefs in practice, then you never really believed them in the first place.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:06 pm

So what are we going to do about this? Are we going to rally together and put a stop to it?

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:21 pm

Scrat wrote: Yeah right. If we get too uppity the same will be applied to us.

This is the very reason why the agencies get away with it, because we don't stand up any more.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:50 pm

how medieval...i remember when all we needed was a bright light and a rubber hose.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:16 pm

OpenMind wrote: So what are we going to do about this? Are we going to rally together and put a stop to it?

Oh yea - all the nations in the world are going to agree on what kind of torture you can administer to the enemy. Then no nation is going to admit to using torture and so here we are again.............only the US uses torture???? as exhibited by GITMO - and that place in Iraq I cannot spell.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:54 am

posted by nyvallee

Oh yea - all the nations in the world are going to agree on what kind of torture you can administer to the enemy. Then no nation is going to admit to using torture and so here we are again.............only the US uses torture???? as exhibited by GITMO - and that place in Iraq I cannot spell.

Most at least pay lip service to the idea that NO torture should be used.

The British used it in Northern Ireland along with internment without trial the efficacy of which is still debated. Apart from the moral issue there is the prctical one that you van never be sure ahat you are told is the truth.

http://www.amnesty.org/

http://web.amnesty.org/library/engindex

TenneseeGirl · Post by **TenneseeGirl** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:28 am

My husband is in iraq right now. I dont care if they torture every last insurgent to death if they get one piece of information that will bring my husband home safely.This may seem harsh but thats how I feel. Right now they are the enemy and they are the ones trying to kill the sons, daughters, moms, dads, wifes and husbands of the United States, UK and a few other countries. Untill that is rectified then kill em all for all I care.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:10 pm

Scrat wrote: Who the enemy "is" is a matter of perspective. The insurgents are fighting an enemy that is invading their country and telling them how they should live their lives. Torturing people only makes things worse. Abuse of prisoners inhumane treatment all only serves to worsen the situation and further endanger good people like your husband.

The Germans in the Dniepre region west of Moscow were brutal in the fall of 1941, wiping out whole villages and throwing the people of the villages left intact out into the cold. When the Red Army came through that winter the soldiers returned the favor on almost every German soldier that was unlucky enough to be caught. It became a truly brutal inhumane war with neither side giving or asking quarter.

You must live in a perfect world of Hitler. Guess What - HE LOST!!!

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:46 am

postede by nyvallee

You must live in a perfect world of Hitler. Guess What - HE LOST!!!

If you regularly abuse and torture prisoners you can hardly object if any american prisoners get treated the same way. Also, since most of those arrested are being released through lack odf evidence using torture and abuse will turn ordinary against you. You create a legacy of hate.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2260472005

Republican Senator John McCain has passed a provision to a defence Bill in the senate banning "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of all US detainees.

But the White House has apparently threatened to veto the measure if it is passed by the House of Representatives.

If that last bit is true any remaining credibility the US might have as civilised nation is likely to go right out the window.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:38 am

gmc wrote: postede by nyvallee

If you regularly abuse and torture prisoners you can hardly object if any american prisoners get treated the same way. Also, since most of those arrested are being released through lack odf evidence using torture and abuse will turn ordinary against you. You create a legacy of hate.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2260472005

If that last bit is true any remaining credibility the US might have as civilised nation is likely to go right out the window.

erm, I believe this "Bush Administration" has pretty much done that to our credibility already.