Jesus and Judas
Jesus and Judas
Ancient Manuscript: Jesus Asked Judas to Betray Him...........i'm not normally in religious discussions, but i felt many people here may find this interesting.
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DesignerGal
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:20 am
Jesus and Judas
So Jesus talked Judas into assisting him in committing suicide? Wow. So, can Dr Kevorkian be let off of the hook now?
HBIC
Jesus and Judas
the document can be seen here, also, they are doing a television special about it(National Geographic)
Jesus and Judas
I heard about this too - on the radio.
Since Judas killed himself after his betrayal of Christ, how did this story come to be?
Since Judas killed himself after his betrayal of Christ, how did this story come to be?
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Jesus and Judas
maybe that question will be answered in the National Geographic special sunday night.
Jesus and Judas
lady cop wrote: Ancient Manuscript: Jesus Asked Judas to Betray Him...........i'm not normally in religious discussions, but i felt many people here may find this interesting if not fascinating.
Wasn't this alluded to in "The Last Temptation of Christ"?
Wasn't this alluded to in "The Last Temptation of Christ"?
Jesus and Judas
Lady cop:-6
I just saw this item on the news a few moments ago. It is indeed very exciting, if one is so interested.
Those of us who subscribe to a faith will indeed, find it a good source for study and discussion.
To the question as to whether or not Judas committed suicide after the event the Bible is unclear. In one verse he went out and hung himself and in the other he fell down in a field and split open and his intestines fell out.
As to whether he was in a position of betrayal or complicity will be debated for years. Is the story historical, metaphorical or midrashic? That will be considered for years to come.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I just saw this item on the news a few moments ago. It is indeed very exciting, if one is so interested.
Those of us who subscribe to a faith will indeed, find it a good source for study and discussion.
To the question as to whether or not Judas committed suicide after the event the Bible is unclear. In one verse he went out and hung himself and in the other he fell down in a field and split open and his intestines fell out.
As to whether he was in a position of betrayal or complicity will be debated for years. Is the story historical, metaphorical or midrashic? That will be considered for years to come.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
i am NO Biblical scholar! but i had this perhaps misguided naive thought that Jesus knew God's plan for him, and realized Judas was a necessary tool to facilitate that plan.
Jesus and Judas
Lady cop:-6
That raises the question of both "God's plan and exactly how much did Jesus know. There is a great deal of disagreement among the churches here. Those who take the Bible literally have the idea that God plans everything. This has its own problems, especially with the idea of free will among others.
The more liberal minded generally do not see God as interfering in the daily lives of people in terms of their physical activity etc.
As to Jesus, the more fundamentalist churches believe that he was familiar with everything and knew everything and was all powerful. This has problems when it comes to understanding the "purpose" for his execution as well as the theology of atonement which has its own attendent problems.
The more liberal minded make a difference between the historical Jesus and the risen Lord or if you will the Christ of faith.
We must also keep in mind that liberal to conservative is a progression on a line with extremists at both ends. I would say that generally most churches are somewhere in the middle of the road.
Heaven forbid that we should all agree. How boring life would get. LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
That raises the question of both "God's plan and exactly how much did Jesus know. There is a great deal of disagreement among the churches here. Those who take the Bible literally have the idea that God plans everything. This has its own problems, especially with the idea of free will among others.
The more liberal minded generally do not see God as interfering in the daily lives of people in terms of their physical activity etc.
As to Jesus, the more fundamentalist churches believe that he was familiar with everything and knew everything and was all powerful. This has problems when it comes to understanding the "purpose" for his execution as well as the theology of atonement which has its own attendent problems.
The more liberal minded make a difference between the historical Jesus and the risen Lord or if you will the Christ of faith.
We must also keep in mind that liberal to conservative is a progression on a line with extremists at both ends. I would say that generally most churches are somewhere in the middle of the road.
Heaven forbid that we should all agree. How boring life would get. LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
It's not a surprise that the document's been found, though the finding and publishing leave a lot to be desired in terms of money-grubbing and destruction.
The document being auctioned, as found, had rather more pages than now seems to be the case. There's a good description of the shenanigans at Michel Van Rijn's website - http://www.michelvanrijn.nl/artnews/judastotal.htm
The plot's been in the public domain since 180 AD though, when the heresy was described by an early church Father. And I'm sure other full copies will come to light in the next few decades.
Nobody seems to have mentioned Hugh Schonfeld's "The Passover Plot" yet, which is odd since it's so well known and takes this heresy as its starting point. I find it persuasive, myself, and quite believable, that Jesus was trying to force the Messianic age into the present by fulfilling all the prophesies he could manage.
The document being auctioned, as found, had rather more pages than now seems to be the case. There's a good description of the shenanigans at Michel Van Rijn's website - http://www.michelvanrijn.nl/artnews/judastotal.htm
The plot's been in the public domain since 180 AD though, when the heresy was described by an early church Father. And I'm sure other full copies will come to light in the next few decades.
Nobody seems to have mentioned Hugh Schonfeld's "The Passover Plot" yet, which is odd since it's so well known and takes this heresy as its starting point. I find it persuasive, myself, and quite believable, that Jesus was trying to force the Messianic age into the present by fulfilling all the prophesies he could manage.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jesus and Judas
Oh my! Not another conspiracy theory: as if scholars have time to waste.
Whatever.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Whatever.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
Ted wrote: Oh my! Not another conspiracy theory: as if scholars have time to waste.Ted, where's the conspiracy? Of course Jesus was aware of the Messianic prophesies. Of course if He had an agenda that involved recognition as the Messiah He'd make sure he ticked them off His list as He went. If that involved a betrayal, who better to accomplish it than the most accomplished disciple, under the direction of his master? Are you saying there was no deliberate intent to fulfil prophesy in the Gospel acts, and that everyone was surprised in later years when they found the parallels?
It's one of the passages enacted "that the scripture might be fulfilled": Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet [I never quite understood why it says that, since the passage is in Zechariah 11], saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me."
It's one of the passages enacted "that the scripture might be fulfilled": Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet [I never quite understood why it says that, since the passage is in Zechariah 11], saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me."
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jesus and Judas
spot wrote: It's one of the passages enacted "that the scripture might be fulfilled": Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet [I never quite understood why it says that, since the passage is in Zechariah 11], saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me."Interesting that you should bring that up, because Bible literalists absolutely HATE that verse, since the attribution to Jeremiah is clearly an error. Jeremiah does indeed talk about buying a field at one point and tell a story about a potter at another point, the two unrelated, but the quote referred to is clearly from Zechariah, and Zech does not say anything about a field, but merely '...cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord', which was apparently a sobriquet for the temple treasurer; in fact, several modern translations give the verse as 'put them in the temple treasury' or something similar.
Stories like this one crop up every few years, usually during slack news periods, and often, mysteriously, during periods when major scandals are brewing like the current one in the American presidency. The last one of this nature, as I recall, involved a box of bones alleged to be those of James, the brother of Jesus.
The fact - if it is indeed a fact - that the document has been dated to the 3rd century AD is the tip-off. Apochryphal gospels and other such material, usually of a gnostic nature, flourished during that period.
The idea that Judas may have acted from some other motive than treachery and avarice, however, is not new.
Stories like this one crop up every few years, usually during slack news periods, and often, mysteriously, during periods when major scandals are brewing like the current one in the American presidency. The last one of this nature, as I recall, involved a box of bones alleged to be those of James, the brother of Jesus.
The fact - if it is indeed a fact - that the document has been dated to the 3rd century AD is the tip-off. Apochryphal gospels and other such material, usually of a gnostic nature, flourished during that period.
The idea that Judas may have acted from some other motive than treachery and avarice, however, is not new.
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Jesus and Judas
Ted wrote: Oh my! Not another conspiracy theory: as if scholars have time to waste.
Whatever.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I'm with you on this one, Ted.
Whatever.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I'm with you on this one, Ted.
Jesus and Judas
spot:-6
Jesus knew that he enjoyed a special relationship with God. He was a prophet, a healer and exocist etc. He was also a human being born to Mary and probably Joseph was his father but even that is under question.
Am I "saying there is no deliberate attempt to fulfill prophesy?" Actually I am saying more then that. Jesus never ever claimed to be the Messiah, though I believbe he was. The stories of Jesus fulfilling prophesy were written long after the crucifixion. These stories were written up to make it appear as if he was fulfilling prophesy which is what they came to believe.. That is the nature of midrash. After their experience of Jesus they became convinced that he was the Messiah and thus wrote the stories up to support their belief. It is another way of presenting truth. Something does not have to be historically true to present and teach truth.
Many today make a great distinction between the Jesus of history and the Christ of Faith.
I would like to add that if the Bible is read for meaning rather then as history such a reading removes a great deal of the problems associated with a reading from the historical perspective.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus knew that he enjoyed a special relationship with God. He was a prophet, a healer and exocist etc. He was also a human being born to Mary and probably Joseph was his father but even that is under question.
Am I "saying there is no deliberate attempt to fulfill prophesy?" Actually I am saying more then that. Jesus never ever claimed to be the Messiah, though I believbe he was. The stories of Jesus fulfilling prophesy were written long after the crucifixion. These stories were written up to make it appear as if he was fulfilling prophesy which is what they came to believe.. That is the nature of midrash. After their experience of Jesus they became convinced that he was the Messiah and thus wrote the stories up to support their belief. It is another way of presenting truth. Something does not have to be historically true to present and teach truth.
Many today make a great distinction between the Jesus of history and the Christ of Faith.
I would like to add that if the Bible is read for meaning rather then as history such a reading removes a great deal of the problems associated with a reading from the historical perspective.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
Ted wrote: spot:-6
Jesus knew that he enjoyed a special relationship with God. He was a prophet, a healer and exocist etc. He was also a human being born to Mary and probably Joseph was his father but even that is under question.
Am I "saying there is no deliberate attempt to fulfill prophesy?" Actually I am saying more then that. Jesus never ever claimed to be the Messiah, though I believbe he was. The stories of Jesus fulfilling prophesy were written long after the crucifixion. These stories were written up to make it appear as if he was fulfilling prophesy which is what they came to believe.. That is the nature of midrash. After their experience of Jesus they became convinced that he was the Messiah and thus wrote the stories up to support their belief. It is another way of presenting truth. Something does not have to be historically true to present and teach truth.
Many today make a great distinction between the Jesus of history and the Christ of Faith.
I would like to add that if the Bible is read for meaning rather then as history such a reading removes a great deal of the problems associated with a reading from the historical perspective.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus sounds a bit like me actually. Totally pissed off with the way the 'leaders' are leading the people. He sets off to try and teach the people how things are meant to be. The serrmon on the mount is one hell of a gig. Pink Floyd should have been there.
Jesus knew that he enjoyed a special relationship with God. He was a prophet, a healer and exocist etc. He was also a human being born to Mary and probably Joseph was his father but even that is under question.
Am I "saying there is no deliberate attempt to fulfill prophesy?" Actually I am saying more then that. Jesus never ever claimed to be the Messiah, though I believbe he was. The stories of Jesus fulfilling prophesy were written long after the crucifixion. These stories were written up to make it appear as if he was fulfilling prophesy which is what they came to believe.. That is the nature of midrash. After their experience of Jesus they became convinced that he was the Messiah and thus wrote the stories up to support their belief. It is another way of presenting truth. Something does not have to be historically true to present and teach truth.
Many today make a great distinction between the Jesus of history and the Christ of Faith.
I would like to add that if the Bible is read for meaning rather then as history such a reading removes a great deal of the problems associated with a reading from the historical perspective.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus sounds a bit like me actually. Totally pissed off with the way the 'leaders' are leading the people. He sets off to try and teach the people how things are meant to be. The serrmon on the mount is one hell of a gig. Pink Floyd should have been there.
Jesus and Judas
OpenMind:-6
I think that generally you are correct. He was a rebel with a cause who espoused non-violence as did M. Ghandi. No doubt in my mind that Ghandi is now in the presence of our Lord.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I think that generally you are correct. He was a rebel with a cause who espoused non-violence as did M. Ghandi. No doubt in my mind that Ghandi is now in the presence of our Lord.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
The one and only thing I believe about Jesus is his commonsense. The only reason I believe this is because of my own experiences of life.
I am not content for anyone to tell me what to believe. I have to question it. And I have questioned the New Testament along with a myriad of other ancient beliefs.
The sermons, as written in the gospels, are as simple as the principles of the Tao.
What is the greatest of these commandments? Does God exist? Who cares to answer this question? I exist. You exist. My friends exist. And the more I learn about life and the universe and life, the more I am astounded.
Quantum physics? Wow!
What if I have another life to lead after this one. The important thing is to live this live as best as I can.
Suffer unto me the children, for they are of the kingdom of God.
Thus, if I poke fun out of you, are you child enough to laugh?
I am not content for anyone to tell me what to believe. I have to question it. And I have questioned the New Testament along with a myriad of other ancient beliefs.
The sermons, as written in the gospels, are as simple as the principles of the Tao.
What is the greatest of these commandments? Does God exist? Who cares to answer this question? I exist. You exist. My friends exist. And the more I learn about life and the universe and life, the more I am astounded.
Quantum physics? Wow!
What if I have another life to lead after this one. The important thing is to live this live as best as I can.
Suffer unto me the children, for they are of the kingdom of God.
Thus, if I poke fun out of you, are you child enough to laugh?
Jesus and Judas
OpenMind:-6
I see nothing wrong with your position. If you are at peace with that, good.
Poking fun at me. I probably do that more then anyone else. I do try to laugh at myself frequently. For instance when my wife asks me to do a job I often claim I can't because it falls in the blind spots in my good eye and is distorted totally by my poor eye. Its worth a laugh and then I go and do what she asks. LOL
I think if you were to read Jesus parable, in Matt 25:31ff, concerning those invited into the kingdom you might find that you qualify, from what you have said.
As far as the teachings of Jesus go and Tao; that is why I call myself a Christian pluralist. All the great faiths have much good to teach us.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I see nothing wrong with your position. If you are at peace with that, good.
Poking fun at me. I probably do that more then anyone else. I do try to laugh at myself frequently. For instance when my wife asks me to do a job I often claim I can't because it falls in the blind spots in my good eye and is distorted totally by my poor eye. Its worth a laugh and then I go and do what she asks. LOL
I think if you were to read Jesus parable, in Matt 25:31ff, concerning those invited into the kingdom you might find that you qualify, from what you have said.
As far as the teachings of Jesus go and Tao; that is why I call myself a Christian pluralist. All the great faiths have much good to teach us.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
Ted wrote: OpenMind:-6
I see nothing wrong with your position. If you are at peace with that, good.
Poking fun at me. I probably do that more then anyone else. I do try to laugh at myself frequently. For instance when my wife asks me to do a job I often claim I can't because it falls in the blind spots in my good eye and is distorted totally by my poor eye. Its worth a laugh and then I go and do what she asks. LOL
I think if you were to read Jesus parable, in Matt 25:31ff, concerning those invited into the kingdom you might find that you qualify, from what you have said.
As far as the teachings of Jesus go and Tao; that is why I call myself a Christian pluralist. All the great faiths have much good to teach us.
Shalom
Ted:-6
KJV.
"Matt 25:31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"
You and your wife are still young, Ted. I am 50 years young. But I have been through periods of seriousness. I am surprised that I am still alive. Suffer the children unto me, for they are of the Kingdom of God.
I am like Judas Iscariot because I can truly test a man's faith. Are you willing to test your faith with me?
I see nothing wrong with your position. If you are at peace with that, good.
Poking fun at me. I probably do that more then anyone else. I do try to laugh at myself frequently. For instance when my wife asks me to do a job I often claim I can't because it falls in the blind spots in my good eye and is distorted totally by my poor eye. Its worth a laugh and then I go and do what she asks. LOL
I think if you were to read Jesus parable, in Matt 25:31ff, concerning those invited into the kingdom you might find that you qualify, from what you have said.
As far as the teachings of Jesus go and Tao; that is why I call myself a Christian pluralist. All the great faiths have much good to teach us.
Shalom
Ted:-6
KJV.
"Matt 25:31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"
You and your wife are still young, Ted. I am 50 years young. But I have been through periods of seriousness. I am surprised that I am still alive. Suffer the children unto me, for they are of the Kingdom of God.
I am like Judas Iscariot because I can truly test a man's faith. Are you willing to test your faith with me?
Jesus and Judas
Ted wrote: Jesus knew that he enjoyed a special relationship with God. He was a prophet, a healer and exocist etc. He was also a human being born to Mary and probably Joseph was his father but even that is under question.What puzzles me is that you appear to think all the conscious and deliberate introduction of Messianic fulfilment was post-crucifixion. Jerusalem was crawling with messianic wannabees round that time. Jesus was presumably interested in bible study. Of course he knew what was expected for the fulfilment of prophesy. Are you suggesting that he went through his ministry ignoring that part of his cultural heritage? On the contrary, I'm quite sure he often sat aside reading and making notes. This isn't an ignorant man we're talking of.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jesus and Judas
spot:-6
The references in the gospels to the ancient writings are stories historicized by the evanagelists. Was Jesus aware of these ancient prophesies? That is a probable assumption if Jesus could in facat read. Most of the folks in his day were illiterate and learned the important parts of the sacred writings by rote. Could Jesus read? That is a question to which we will never know the answer.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The references in the gospels to the ancient writings are stories historicized by the evanagelists. Was Jesus aware of these ancient prophesies? That is a probable assumption if Jesus could in facat read. Most of the folks in his day were illiterate and learned the important parts of the sacred writings by rote. Could Jesus read? That is a question to which we will never know the answer.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
OpenMind:-6
That you "can truly test a man's faith" is quite the claim but one on which I will not make any further comment .
I'm 62 going on 63. If you wish to ask me questions by all means go ahead. I will do my best to answer them but probably cannot answer all of them to your satisfaction. If I can't answer them I will say so. One question that I will not discuss is the "existance" of God. Such arguments are purely circular and a total waste of time.
Shalom
Ted:-6
That you "can truly test a man's faith" is quite the claim but one on which I will not make any further comment .
I'm 62 going on 63. If you wish to ask me questions by all means go ahead. I will do my best to answer them but probably cannot answer all of them to your satisfaction. If I can't answer them I will say so. One question that I will not discuss is the "existance" of God. Such arguments are purely circular and a total waste of time.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
OpenMind:-6
Perhaps your pseudonym is accurate. Why do you keep quoting scripture out of context such as the one about "Children"? I find it rather puzzling.
Then you claim you are like Judas I. First of all that assumes that Judas was even a real person and not a human construct within the style of midrash being used to explain or give a basis for the crucifixion story.
Your quote of Matt 25:31 seems to me to have no reason. It is from a parable and is metaphorical. The important meaning comes from later on and within the whole context.
As far as telling anyone what to believe: I have enough problems looking after myself. I certainly cannot presume to tell others what to believe. That is a very personal thing and essentially none of my business. I am called to act not to tell others how to live.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Perhaps your pseudonym is accurate. Why do you keep quoting scripture out of context such as the one about "Children"? I find it rather puzzling.
Then you claim you are like Judas I. First of all that assumes that Judas was even a real person and not a human construct within the style of midrash being used to explain or give a basis for the crucifixion story.
Your quote of Matt 25:31 seems to me to have no reason. It is from a parable and is metaphorical. The important meaning comes from later on and within the whole context.
As far as telling anyone what to believe: I have enough problems looking after myself. I certainly cannot presume to tell others what to believe. That is a very personal thing and essentially none of my business. I am called to act not to tell others how to live.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
Ted wrote: OpenMind:-6
Perhaps your pseudonym is accurate. Why do you keep quoting scripture out of context such as the one about "Children"? I find it rather puzzling.
Then you claim you are like Judas I. First of all that assumes that Judas was even a real person and not a human construct within the style of midrash being used to explain or give a basis for the crucifixion story.
Your quote of Matt 25:31 seems to me to have no reason. It is from a parable and is metaphorical. The important meaning comes from later on and within the whole context.
As far as telling anyone what to believe: I have enough problems looking after myself. I certainly cannot presume to tell others what to believe. That is a very personal thing and essentially none of my business. I am called to act not to tell others how to live.
Shalom
Ted:-6
It was you, Ted, that suggested that I read Matt.25:31, and I wrote down what I found.
The 'children' quote is pertinent to the part of my life that is so serious. God's Kingdom, it would seem, is not for the serious.
I have no actual interest in poking fun out of anyone. The question was rhetorical designed to provoke thought.
Tranquillity.
Rog.
Perhaps your pseudonym is accurate. Why do you keep quoting scripture out of context such as the one about "Children"? I find it rather puzzling.
Then you claim you are like Judas I. First of all that assumes that Judas was even a real person and not a human construct within the style of midrash being used to explain or give a basis for the crucifixion story.
Your quote of Matt 25:31 seems to me to have no reason. It is from a parable and is metaphorical. The important meaning comes from later on and within the whole context.
As far as telling anyone what to believe: I have enough problems looking after myself. I certainly cannot presume to tell others what to believe. That is a very personal thing and essentially none of my business. I am called to act not to tell others how to live.
Shalom
Ted:-6
It was you, Ted, that suggested that I read Matt.25:31, and I wrote down what I found.
The 'children' quote is pertinent to the part of my life that is so serious. God's Kingdom, it would seem, is not for the serious.
I have no actual interest in poking fun out of anyone. The question was rhetorical designed to provoke thought.
Tranquillity.
Rog.
Jesus and Judas
OpenMind:-6
I carefully checked back and what I posted was Matt 25:31ff. Perhaps you misread that. I was simply pointing out something to back up the comment I made. I never suggested that you accept or believe it. (ff=following verses
As for the "child" quote, you have clarified my question. I think the "Kingdom of God" is indeed serious business.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I carefully checked back and what I posted was Matt 25:31ff. Perhaps you misread that. I was simply pointing out something to back up the comment I made. I never suggested that you accept or believe it. (ff=following verses
As for the "child" quote, you have clarified my question. I think the "Kingdom of God" is indeed serious business.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
When I hear of another "present day" discovery (Gospel of Judas was found in the 70s) that rewrites the Bible - I said: enough with this Leonardo's and gnostic's ****.
People must start to ask themselves: who are these "scientists", pulp fiction and new age authors, pseudo masons etc. and what is their problem with Bible?!
I say: if one book of wisdom and messages for good deeds survives for thousands of years than we must have some respect.
All you have to know about Jesus you can find in Mathew.
You ask if he was familiar with his destiny or with prophecies, or with God's wishes - REMEMBER HOW HE PRAY IN THE GARDEN: IF THIS CUP MAY PASS ME...
BUT LET IT BE YOUR WILL NOT MINE..........
Poor GOD/man - we really don't deserve him.
What is more important - his historical person or his words in Mathew 5?!?!
Kali yuga is a hard time for the Light.....Modern day society prefers concpiracies instead of messages for love and understanding...
Sad
People must start to ask themselves: who are these "scientists", pulp fiction and new age authors, pseudo masons etc. and what is their problem with Bible?!
I say: if one book of wisdom and messages for good deeds survives for thousands of years than we must have some respect.
All you have to know about Jesus you can find in Mathew.
You ask if he was familiar with his destiny or with prophecies, or with God's wishes - REMEMBER HOW HE PRAY IN THE GARDEN: IF THIS CUP MAY PASS ME...
BUT LET IT BE YOUR WILL NOT MINE..........
Poor GOD/man - we really don't deserve him.
What is more important - his historical person or his words in Mathew 5?!?!
Kali yuga is a hard time for the Light.....Modern day society prefers concpiracies instead of messages for love and understanding...
Sad
Jesus and Judas
jhwty40:-6
We have to remember that the Bible was finally put together by a vote on the then know documents of which there were thousands. It behoves scholars to look at all discoveries to ascertain their value.
Considering that there were thousands of documents used in producing the NT with dozens of copies of each book containing some 400 000 variants it is important that scholars continue to work on the scriptures. We will of course never be able to get back to the autographs and what the writers said word for word.
Shalom
Ted:-6
We have to remember that the Bible was finally put together by a vote on the then know documents of which there were thousands. It behoves scholars to look at all discoveries to ascertain their value.
Considering that there were thousands of documents used in producing the NT with dozens of copies of each book containing some 400 000 variants it is important that scholars continue to work on the scriptures. We will of course never be able to get back to the autographs and what the writers said word for word.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jesus and Judas
ok Ted,
I'm only angry, because wherever I hear Jesus these days first thing connected is some meaningless question like "was he married". "how many kids he had" and sort of...
As I have intersts in the history of religions I'm awared with the non-canonical gospels and the way the Bible was compilated.
My question is "is this the most important themes to discuss in CHRISTIANITY thread?!
There are ancient wisdom or mysticism threads...
Are the conspiracies only thing the christians discuss today rather than how the words of Jesus effects on their life?!?!?!
I'm only angry, because wherever I hear Jesus these days first thing connected is some meaningless question like "was he married". "how many kids he had" and sort of...
As I have intersts in the history of religions I'm awared with the non-canonical gospels and the way the Bible was compilated.
My question is "is this the most important themes to discuss in CHRISTIANITY thread?!
There are ancient wisdom or mysticism threads...
Are the conspiracies only thing the christians discuss today rather than how the words of Jesus effects on their life?!?!?!
Jesus and Judas
jhwty42:-6
It seems to me it is of little consequence or of no importance as to whether or not Jesus was married and had children or not. Foks are generally interested because it is one of those questions they ask.
Is this important to enough to be in a Christian thread. Why not? It is a bona fide question that people ask.
The nature of the Bible is importtant because without an understanding or its origins etc. it is rather difficult to interpret it. "There are ancient wisom or mysticism threads": Why there? This is a Christian question.
As for the wordsw attributed to Jesus by the evangelists: It is important to be able to distingish between the words the evangelists put into Jesus mouth from the actual words of Jesus.
Conspiracy theories??? Whatever.
Shalom
Ted
It seems to me it is of little consequence or of no importance as to whether or not Jesus was married and had children or not. Foks are generally interested because it is one of those questions they ask.
Is this important to enough to be in a Christian thread. Why not? It is a bona fide question that people ask.
The nature of the Bible is importtant because without an understanding or its origins etc. it is rather difficult to interpret it. "There are ancient wisom or mysticism threads": Why there? This is a Christian question.
As for the wordsw attributed to Jesus by the evangelists: It is important to be able to distingish between the words the evangelists put into Jesus mouth from the actual words of Jesus.
Conspiracy theories??? Whatever.
Shalom
Ted