Following threats by extremist Islamic group, several corporations, chain of pubs ban England flag
Modi Kreitman
Following warnings by extremist Islamic group al-Muhajiroun, in which the group said that the red cross in the England flag symbolizes the 'blood thirsty crusaders' and the occupation of Muslims, some of the largest companies in England have ordered their workers not to wave the flags.
The flag has recently appeared in England on everything from bikinis to cars, and sold in endless versions in stores.
But the Islamic protest forced some corporations, such as cable companies NTL, Heathrow airport in London, and even the Drivers and Vehicles Licensing Agency to ban the flag in every form due to fears from reactions of Muslims.
The Sun tabloid newspaper has in recent days launched a campaign to bring back the flag, and has published a blacklist of companies preventing their workers from expressing their patriotism at work.
The Sun said that a large pub network has banned drinkers from entering with symbols of the national team.
The hero of the day is a two year-old toddler, who was thrown out with his parents from Leicester, because he wore the England team's uniform.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 13,00.html
Take care,
Gordon.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
-
gordonartist
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:55 pm
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
There’s something very wrong at present in the United Kingdom in general and England in particular.
The see any form of national pride as being racist, patriotism as being Jingoistic as well as racist, their history, of which for the most part they should be proud, as being a thing to be ashamed of, any display of any national symbol as being a thing to decry for fear of offending non-English or non-British people who happen to be there (often illegally), in short as a people they’ve lost the plot.
They are both terrified of, and in many cases hate Moslems, yet won’t stand up to them for fear of being seen as being reactionary or anti-diversity by friends of colleagues , and they continue to pursue the terribly flawed concept of a multi-cultural society as though it was good and not the destructive thing it is.
A thing so utterly stupid in both concept and practice that it beggars belief that anyone other than the most idiotic and idealistic socialist could not see it for the stupidity that it is. A multi-ethnic society, that’s one thing, but multicultural? Utterly bloody stupid.
The see any form of national pride as being racist, patriotism as being Jingoistic as well as racist, their history, of which for the most part they should be proud, as being a thing to be ashamed of, any display of any national symbol as being a thing to decry for fear of offending non-English or non-British people who happen to be there (often illegally), in short as a people they’ve lost the plot.
They are both terrified of, and in many cases hate Moslems, yet won’t stand up to them for fear of being seen as being reactionary or anti-diversity by friends of colleagues , and they continue to pursue the terribly flawed concept of a multi-cultural society as though it was good and not the destructive thing it is.
A thing so utterly stupid in both concept and practice that it beggars belief that anyone other than the most idiotic and idealistic socialist could not see it for the stupidity that it is. A multi-ethnic society, that’s one thing, but multicultural? Utterly bloody stupid.
-
gordonartist
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:55 pm
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Golem,
That story was probably an urban myth. The British are very patriotic but not the foot stomping flag in your face type of people.
Take care,
gordon
That story was probably an urban myth. The British are very patriotic but not the foot stomping flag in your face type of people.
Take care,
gordon
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
golem wrote: There’s something very wrong at present in the United Kingdom in general and England in particular.
The see any form of national pride as being racist, patriotism as being Jingoistic as well as racist, their history, of which for the most part they should be proud, as being a thing to be ashamed of, any display of any national symbol as being a thing to decry for fear of offending non-English or non-British people who happen to be there (often illegally), in short as a people they’ve lost the plot.
They are both terrified of, and in many cases hate Moslems, yet won’t stand up to them for fear of being seen as being reactionary or anti-diversity by friends of colleagues , and they continue to pursue the terribly flawed concept of a multi-cultural society as though it was good and not the destructive thing it is.
A thing so utterly stupid in both concept and practice that it beggars belief that anyone other than the most idiotic and idealistic socialist could not see it for the stupidity that it is. A multi-ethnic society, that’s one thing, but multicultural? Utterly bloody stupid.
Good job you don't live there then.
On a multi cultural note I am delighted the english fans now realise they actually have an english flag. Seeing the union flag being waved by english supporters at internationals-even against scotland used to be like a red rag to a bull.
You shouldn't believe all you read in the tabloids-there is actually an element of truth in that some councils did ban flags-but not for very long. You seem to believe we are at the mercy of our politicians.
The see any form of national pride as being racist, patriotism as being Jingoistic as well as racist, their history, of which for the most part they should be proud, as being a thing to be ashamed of, any display of any national symbol as being a thing to decry for fear of offending non-English or non-British people who happen to be there (often illegally), in short as a people they’ve lost the plot.
They are both terrified of, and in many cases hate Moslems, yet won’t stand up to them for fear of being seen as being reactionary or anti-diversity by friends of colleagues , and they continue to pursue the terribly flawed concept of a multi-cultural society as though it was good and not the destructive thing it is.
A thing so utterly stupid in both concept and practice that it beggars belief that anyone other than the most idiotic and idealistic socialist could not see it for the stupidity that it is. A multi-ethnic society, that’s one thing, but multicultural? Utterly bloody stupid.
Good job you don't live there then.
On a multi cultural note I am delighted the english fans now realise they actually have an english flag. Seeing the union flag being waved by english supporters at internationals-even against scotland used to be like a red rag to a bull.
You shouldn't believe all you read in the tabloids-there is actually an element of truth in that some councils did ban flags-but not for very long. You seem to believe we are at the mercy of our politicians.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
I'm proud to fly both the Union Jack and the Flag of England.....I'm so sick of this Great Britain, United Kingdom, England bashing :-5
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
-
Uncle Kram
- Posts: 5991
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:34 pm
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
I've always thought it strange that a fear of upsetting minority groups dictates how the vast majority of the country expresses its patriotism. The flag nonsense once again illustrates the will of the Politically Correct MINORITY being imposed on your average Joe. Surely, in England, every Englishman if he chooses to, should be free to express the national pride that all people around the world feel about their own country.
Guess I'll just have to keep a stiff upper lip about it :rolleyes:
Guess I'll just have to keep a stiff upper lip about it :rolleyes:
THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN PUN
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
gmc wrote: Good job you don't live there then.
On a multi cultural note I am delighted the english fans now realise they actually have an english flag. Seeing the union flag being waved by english supporters at internationals-even against scotland used to be like a red rag to a bull.
You shouldn't believe all you read in the tabloids-there is actually an element of truth in that some councils did ban flags-but not for very long. You seem to believe we are at the mercy of our politicians.
Not your politicians, the politically correct.
And there IS a problem in the UK and in England in particular. In order to avoid the taint of being a racist there’s now a need to be positively anti-racist and in a very overt manner.. Simply being even handed is not enough.
The taint of racism is more career damaging than any other thing that can happen. That is why the things that are being done are being done
On a multi cultural note I am delighted the english fans now realise they actually have an english flag. Seeing the union flag being waved by english supporters at internationals-even against scotland used to be like a red rag to a bull.
You shouldn't believe all you read in the tabloids-there is actually an element of truth in that some councils did ban flags-but not for very long. You seem to believe we are at the mercy of our politicians.
Not your politicians, the politically correct.
And there IS a problem in the UK and in England in particular. In order to avoid the taint of being a racist there’s now a need to be positively anti-racist and in a very overt manner.. Simply being even handed is not enough.
The taint of racism is more career damaging than any other thing that can happen. That is why the things that are being done are being done
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Uncle Kram wrote: I've always thought it strange that a fear of upsetting minority groups dictates how the vast majority of the country expresses its patriotism. The flag nonsense once again illustrates the will of the Politically Correct MINORITY being imposed on your average Joe. Surely, in England, every Englishman if he chooses to, should be free to express the national pride that all people around the world feel about their own country.
Guess I'll just have to keep a stiff upper lip about it :rolleyes:
I think it's more a case that people take their patriotism for granted, don't feel the need to wave flags to make the point for johnny foreigner or at the behest of the tabloids, and are proud to be english, scots, british, welsh whatever. it's just the tabloids that lament he lack of patriotism but then they also like stories about drunken lager pouts at football matches attacking other supporters. The same ones that also like stories about how most scots won't support england. The reality is we are fed up of reruns of that game in 1996 and would like to see a match in colour every now and then.
To be blunt anyone that accuses another englishman or british person of not being patriotic enough is being remarkably unbritish and deserves a good smacking.
Guess I'll just have to keep a stiff upper lip about it :rolleyes:
I think it's more a case that people take their patriotism for granted, don't feel the need to wave flags to make the point for johnny foreigner or at the behest of the tabloids, and are proud to be english, scots, british, welsh whatever. it's just the tabloids that lament he lack of patriotism but then they also like stories about drunken lager pouts at football matches attacking other supporters. The same ones that also like stories about how most scots won't support england. The reality is we are fed up of reruns of that game in 1996 and would like to see a match in colour every now and then.
To be blunt anyone that accuses another englishman or british person of not being patriotic enough is being remarkably unbritish and deserves a good smacking.
-
gordonartist
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:55 pm
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Certainly not deserved either. I have great respect and admiration for the English. All of my ancestors originally came from England and I'm proud of that.
Take care,
Gordon.
Take care,
Gordon.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
How many British classrooms have the Union flag on display?
How many British schools teach the history of Britain in non-politically correct terms?
How many British homes have the British flag fling outside as a matter of course, not to impress but simply out of pride?
How many NON-British people say “why be proud of my country, it’s just where I happened to be born?â€Â.
I could go on and on.
Believe me, most British and especially most English have NO pride in their country, their history, their community, and even no pride in themselves.
They are self centred blinkered rather than bigoted, television addicted and yet remarkably ignorant about the world beyond what they have been spoon fed by vested interest groups.
I don’t know why this has come about over the years though I suspect that the malign influence of socialism, especially in the education system, has much to answer for.
How many British schools teach the history of Britain in non-politically correct terms?
How many British homes have the British flag fling outside as a matter of course, not to impress but simply out of pride?
How many NON-British people say “why be proud of my country, it’s just where I happened to be born?â€Â.
I could go on and on.
Believe me, most British and especially most English have NO pride in their country, their history, their community, and even no pride in themselves.
They are self centred blinkered rather than bigoted, television addicted and yet remarkably ignorant about the world beyond what they have been spoon fed by vested interest groups.
I don’t know why this has come about over the years though I suspect that the malign influence of socialism, especially in the education system, has much to answer for.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
gordonartist wrote: Sorry for the repetition.
Take care,
GordonGordon, you can delete the extra posts if you wish. in the particular post, click edit. There is an option to delete in the next window that opens. You can delete almost any of your own posts this way. The exceptions are the first post of a thread, or an older post.
Take care,
GordonGordon, you can delete the extra posts if you wish. in the particular post, click edit. There is an option to delete in the next window that opens. You can delete almost any of your own posts this way. The exceptions are the first post of a thread, or an older post.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
I don't know about the urban areas, but the people I knew in smaller towns in England were fiercely proud of their British-ness that unified them, and the uniqueness of thier communities that distinguished them.
It was very cool just to sit in a corner and watch that spirit play out in the simplest of conversation.
It was very cool just to sit in a corner and watch that spirit play out in the simplest of conversation.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
To blame Margaret Thatcher for what took place in the UK during her period in office is like blaming a surgeon for what had to take place during the excising of a cancerous tumour.
It was precisely because of what the Left had done to Britain as a result of obscene union power and obscene union ambitions that created the disaster that Mrs Thatcher faced.
I detest socialism in any form and especially the form that Britain has in its utterly corrupt and corrupting “Welfare Stateâ€Â. What started as a good idea and based on laudable objectives ahs been used by subsequent left wing governments in Britain to create a society on which taxation ahs been used to steal from the wealthy and give to the demanding. It has created a society where there is a whole “don’t work – won’t work†sub-class many of whom now have not been in paid employment over two generation and with a third on the way.
It is mostly them who have no pride in the nation, no pride in themselves, and form the majority of the criminals predating on the rest. Of course each one of them has a vote and so successive governments have bent over backwards to ensure that thse votes are cast for them.
People who have not been in the UK for the last ten years or more would be horrified at what has taken place, many of the people living in the UK fail to see what’s happened and contusing to happen, it’s mainly people like me who are regular visitors who can see just what a dump the place has become.
And it’s getting worse.
Just wait until the British economy really starts to falter which will happen once the massive debt that has funded the so-called miracle reaches unsustainable levels when rising interest rates, already on the cards, cause the repayments of personal loans to become impossible and the bankruptcies start to kick in.
What took place as Mrs Thatcher restored some sense and order to what was at the time a bankrupt Britain will be as nothing to what will happen then.
It was precisely because of what the Left had done to Britain as a result of obscene union power and obscene union ambitions that created the disaster that Mrs Thatcher faced.
I detest socialism in any form and especially the form that Britain has in its utterly corrupt and corrupting “Welfare Stateâ€Â. What started as a good idea and based on laudable objectives ahs been used by subsequent left wing governments in Britain to create a society on which taxation ahs been used to steal from the wealthy and give to the demanding. It has created a society where there is a whole “don’t work – won’t work†sub-class many of whom now have not been in paid employment over two generation and with a third on the way.
It is mostly them who have no pride in the nation, no pride in themselves, and form the majority of the criminals predating on the rest. Of course each one of them has a vote and so successive governments have bent over backwards to ensure that thse votes are cast for them.
People who have not been in the UK for the last ten years or more would be horrified at what has taken place, many of the people living in the UK fail to see what’s happened and contusing to happen, it’s mainly people like me who are regular visitors who can see just what a dump the place has become.
And it’s getting worse.
Just wait until the British economy really starts to falter which will happen once the massive debt that has funded the so-called miracle reaches unsustainable levels when rising interest rates, already on the cards, cause the repayments of personal loans to become impossible and the bankruptcies start to kick in.
What took place as Mrs Thatcher restored some sense and order to what was at the time a bankrupt Britain will be as nothing to what will happen then.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
what i dont understand is why this subject upsets you so much golem, its not as if you live here :-2
-
chrisb84uk
- Posts: 11634
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:29 am
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Why do I get this feeling that this thread is going to end up getting nasty?? 
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
chrisb84uk wrote: Why do I get this feeling that this thread is going to end up getting nasty??
Let's define 'nasty' shall we? Passionate opinion is not nasty. Even anger is not nasty. It only get truly nasty when personal attacks start.
Let's not promote "nice" at the cost of muffling our passion.
Let's define 'nasty' shall we? Passionate opinion is not nasty. Even anger is not nasty. It only get truly nasty when personal attacks start.
Let's not promote "nice" at the cost of muffling our passion.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
i hope my comment is not seen as a personal attack, golem makes many good points, its just odd to me why 'british based subjects' can cause such distress to people who do not live here, seems a fair enough question to ask 
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
buttercup wrote: what i dont understand is why this subject upsets you so much golem, its not as if you live here :-2
Golem has a business here in the UK Buttercup. He is planning to move to Eastern Europe (If my memory serves me right) or somewhere out of the UK anyway. As he has such a low regard for the UK and its' people, I hope these plans are going well and he can soon rid himself of this country he truly hates.
I am in danger of repeating myself here, but, The UK along with many other countries in the world have a variety of problems, caused by a variety of reasons. As individuals, we can only hope to do 'our'bit' to put the world to rights.
We have a long and interesting history and have been influential throughout the world....not always positive influences, but influential none the less. We are but a small country that has welcomed all manner of people from all over the world. Many have contributed to the spirit of the country and a few have stirred up trouble. We'll survive....we have the spirit to survive no matter what happens.
Golem has a business here in the UK Buttercup. He is planning to move to Eastern Europe (If my memory serves me right) or somewhere out of the UK anyway. As he has such a low regard for the UK and its' people, I hope these plans are going well and he can soon rid himself of this country he truly hates.
I am in danger of repeating myself here, but, The UK along with many other countries in the world have a variety of problems, caused by a variety of reasons. As individuals, we can only hope to do 'our'bit' to put the world to rights.
We have a long and interesting history and have been influential throughout the world....not always positive influences, but influential none the less. We are but a small country that has welcomed all manner of people from all over the world. Many have contributed to the spirit of the country and a few have stirred up trouble. We'll survive....we have the spirit to survive no matter what happens.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Oh yes...Mrs Thatcher....as an ordinary citizen of the UK, my quality and standard of life was very poor when this woman was prime minister. I cannot find one single positive thing that she did for me and mine.....strikes, pole tax, power cuts, 3 day week, selling off council houses....
Most positive thing I can think of was getting the Falklands back from Argentina
Most positive thing I can think of was getting the Falklands back from Argentina
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Diuretic wrote: My interpretation of that comment is that you are excusing Thatcher on the grounds of necessity. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You’re wrong. I make no excuse for Mrs.T, none is necessary. She took a poisoned chalice and turned it into a cup of ambrosia for Britain.
And the patient didn’t die but the cancerous tissue for the most part was successfully excised and did.
And what is precisely is “neo-con� If you mean Adam Smith market led philosophy then your country most emphatically DID need it and still does.
Obscene unionism? Nothing obscene about unionism per se, but a very great deal that was obscene about the form and methods of the unionism practiced in Britain in the years leading up to the arrival of a resolute and excellent reforming government under Mrs. T.
Disaster is the correct word to describe Britain prior to the arrival of the Thatcher era.
A bankrupt economy, massive debt to the IMF that was worsening day by day, all sorts of restrictions on personal freedoms, an out of control public sector with public sector workers practicing Spanish Customs all over the show, lame duck industries everywhere, coal that cost more to get from the ground than it could be sold for, a manufacturing industry that produced goods that the world didn’t want subsidised by horrendous taxes, management and government held to ransom by politicized unions, and that’s not a disaster?
It is by my reckoning and it’s not the whole picture by any extent.
Capitalism doesn’t require unemployment. That’s rubbish. Capitalism requires a system in place where a person makes his wealth available for others to make gain for themselves and the owner of the capital.
The one thing that capitalism does require is a free market. It benefits all. It especially benefits the workers as there is a market for their skills and an encouragement for them to maintain the skills that are needed.
Would I prefer that the unemployed did not have a vote? YES. What’s more I oppose the very concept of universal suffrage. There needs to be some qualification for people not least the ability to speak, read, and demonstrate that they can understand the language of the country. Furthermore they should demionstrate an understanding of the whole system and nature of government.
There are many people in your country who STILL don’t realise that governments have NO money and see announcement of ‘Government Aid’ as coming from some indeter inate mystical pot rather than form taxes taken from the public.
The reference to the time of Hogarth is a red herring. Things in British society improved massively and I suspect reached a peak in the mid 50’s. One thing is certain, since the awful New Labour lot got into power the decline of Britain has pretty well gone into free fall.
When I first came to Britain in the mid 50’s I was surprised at how different it was than my family seemed to imagine it to be. The standards of education, supposedly so much better than in Israel, was appalling though the facilities available to children were streets ahead of anything we had.
Sad to say the situation seems to have remained the same. Facilities good, education rubbish, and the badly educated children of the 50’s have become the grandparents and the parents of the ill behaved thugs of today,
You’re wrong. I make no excuse for Mrs.T, none is necessary. She took a poisoned chalice and turned it into a cup of ambrosia for Britain.
And the patient didn’t die but the cancerous tissue for the most part was successfully excised and did.
And what is precisely is “neo-con� If you mean Adam Smith market led philosophy then your country most emphatically DID need it and still does.
Obscene unionism? Nothing obscene about unionism per se, but a very great deal that was obscene about the form and methods of the unionism practiced in Britain in the years leading up to the arrival of a resolute and excellent reforming government under Mrs. T.
Disaster is the correct word to describe Britain prior to the arrival of the Thatcher era.
A bankrupt economy, massive debt to the IMF that was worsening day by day, all sorts of restrictions on personal freedoms, an out of control public sector with public sector workers practicing Spanish Customs all over the show, lame duck industries everywhere, coal that cost more to get from the ground than it could be sold for, a manufacturing industry that produced goods that the world didn’t want subsidised by horrendous taxes, management and government held to ransom by politicized unions, and that’s not a disaster?
It is by my reckoning and it’s not the whole picture by any extent.
Capitalism doesn’t require unemployment. That’s rubbish. Capitalism requires a system in place where a person makes his wealth available for others to make gain for themselves and the owner of the capital.
The one thing that capitalism does require is a free market. It benefits all. It especially benefits the workers as there is a market for their skills and an encouragement for them to maintain the skills that are needed.
Would I prefer that the unemployed did not have a vote? YES. What’s more I oppose the very concept of universal suffrage. There needs to be some qualification for people not least the ability to speak, read, and demonstrate that they can understand the language of the country. Furthermore they should demionstrate an understanding of the whole system and nature of government.
There are many people in your country who STILL don’t realise that governments have NO money and see announcement of ‘Government Aid’ as coming from some indeter inate mystical pot rather than form taxes taken from the public.
The reference to the time of Hogarth is a red herring. Things in British society improved massively and I suspect reached a peak in the mid 50’s. One thing is certain, since the awful New Labour lot got into power the decline of Britain has pretty well gone into free fall.
When I first came to Britain in the mid 50’s I was surprised at how different it was than my family seemed to imagine it to be. The standards of education, supposedly so much better than in Israel, was appalling though the facilities available to children were streets ahead of anything we had.
Sad to say the situation seems to have remained the same. Facilities good, education rubbish, and the badly educated children of the 50’s have become the grandparents and the parents of the ill behaved thugs of today,
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
No, Bez, I’m not in the UK, I do have business interest IN the UK and am a frequent visitor. That’s all.
As for hating Britain, I don’t.
I hate what many British armed forces did to my people in my country prior to us kicking them out, or at least the generation to which my father belongs doing so, but I don’t hate Britain in the least.
If anything I pity the people who live there.
And Buttercup, it’s a sense of loss that I feel for what has happened in the UK that motivates me. That and the advantage of seeing the place with a degree of detachment that the people who live there for the most part can’t or won’t.
I LIKE the British people that I met when I was at school and university there and also when my work had me based there for periods of time, but the place, and so many of the people, have changed beyond recognition.
It particularly galls me when I see British people criticizing other countries, especially the US, when they have so very much more wrong with their own society, or when people write about the place being so nice when their knowledge is based on what they saw on a vacation or on what they knew many years ago.
If I were to write about Britain of the seventies I would be glowing in my admiration for the place, the people, even the way of life but today? Yeugh.
As for hating Britain, I don’t.
I hate what many British armed forces did to my people in my country prior to us kicking them out, or at least the generation to which my father belongs doing so, but I don’t hate Britain in the least.
If anything I pity the people who live there.
And Buttercup, it’s a sense of loss that I feel for what has happened in the UK that motivates me. That and the advantage of seeing the place with a degree of detachment that the people who live there for the most part can’t or won’t.
I LIKE the British people that I met when I was at school and university there and also when my work had me based there for periods of time, but the place, and so many of the people, have changed beyond recognition.
It particularly galls me when I see British people criticizing other countries, especially the US, when they have so very much more wrong with their own society, or when people write about the place being so nice when their knowledge is based on what they saw on a vacation or on what they knew many years ago.
If I were to write about Britain of the seventies I would be glowing in my admiration for the place, the people, even the way of life but today? Yeugh.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
I Love My Country:-4
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Quote by Golem "Sad to say the situation seems to have remained the same. Facilities good, education rubbish, and the badly educated children of the 50’s have become the grandparents and the parents of the ill behaved thugs of today,"
I had a very good education in the 50s and 60s. My children had a simialr education in the 70s, 80s 90s. My 6 grandchildren are working there way through the education system at the moment.
None of us have turned out to be thugs you'll be glad to know although a small percentage do crosss our paths. I had a very nasty experience with 3 Israeli youths some time ago.I believe they were students and not behaving appropriately as guests in this country. They were rude, aggressive and generally unpleasant.....mmmm...sounds like uncouth youths of any nationality actually.
I had a very good education in the 50s and 60s. My children had a simialr education in the 70s, 80s 90s. My 6 grandchildren are working there way through the education system at the moment.
None of us have turned out to be thugs you'll be glad to know although a small percentage do crosss our paths. I had a very nasty experience with 3 Israeli youths some time ago.I believe they were students and not behaving appropriately as guests in this country. They were rude, aggressive and generally unpleasant.....mmmm...sounds like uncouth youths of any nationality actually.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
golem wrote: No, Bez, I’m not in the UK, I do have business interest IN the UK and am a frequent visitor. That’s all.
As for hating Britain, I don’t.
I hate what many British armed forces did to my people in my country prior to us kicking them out, or at least the generation to which my father belongs doing so, but I don’t hate Britain in the least.
If anything I pity the people who live there.
And Buttercup, it’s a sense of loss that I feel for what has happened in the UK that motivates me. That and the advantage of seeing the place with a degree of detachment that the people who live there for the most part can’t or won’t.
I LIKE the British people that I met when I was at school and university there and also when my work had me based there for periods of time, but the place, and so many of the people, have changed beyond recognition.
It particularly galls me when I see British people criticizing other countries, especially the US, when they have so very much more wrong with their own society, or when people write about the place being so nice when their knowledge is based on what they saw on a vacation or on what they knew many years ago.
If I were to write about Britain of the seventies I would be glowing in my admiration for the place, the people, even the way of life but today? Yeugh.
thank you for that golem, i can see my country's problems however i love my country warts & all, i do respect your opinions, as i said before you make some valid points, however keeping saying negative things about the uk is not helpful, it just upsets people who are from the uk & when you keep doing it - it doesent look like you feel a sence of loss, it looks like you are on the attack, can you see that?
As for hating Britain, I don’t.
I hate what many British armed forces did to my people in my country prior to us kicking them out, or at least the generation to which my father belongs doing so, but I don’t hate Britain in the least.
If anything I pity the people who live there.
And Buttercup, it’s a sense of loss that I feel for what has happened in the UK that motivates me. That and the advantage of seeing the place with a degree of detachment that the people who live there for the most part can’t or won’t.
I LIKE the British people that I met when I was at school and university there and also when my work had me based there for periods of time, but the place, and so many of the people, have changed beyond recognition.
It particularly galls me when I see British people criticizing other countries, especially the US, when they have so very much more wrong with their own society, or when people write about the place being so nice when their knowledge is based on what they saw on a vacation or on what they knew many years ago.
If I were to write about Britain of the seventies I would be glowing in my admiration for the place, the people, even the way of life but today? Yeugh.
thank you for that golem, i can see my country's problems however i love my country warts & all, i do respect your opinions, as i said before you make some valid points, however keeping saying negative things about the uk is not helpful, it just upsets people who are from the uk & when you keep doing it - it doesent look like you feel a sence of loss, it looks like you are on the attack, can you see that?
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Bez wrote:
I had a very good education in the 50s and 60s. My children had a simialr education in the 70s, 80s 90s. My 6 grandchildren are working there way through the education system at the moment.
.
And the same here, Bez
I had a very good education in the 50s and 60s. My children had a simialr education in the 70s, 80s 90s. My 6 grandchildren are working there way through the education system at the moment.
.
And the same here, Bez
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
chrisb84uk wrote: Why do I get this feeling that this thread is going to end up getting nasty??
I don't know. Many confuse passionate disagreement with personal dislike. What I suspect this thread might turn in to is a rip roaring arguement amongst people who passionately disagree about some issues and love arguing, and more to the point know their subject and can put the points well.
That isn't the same as getting nasty or personal. People only chuck personal insults about when they nothing else to say. You might agree to disagree with someone but that dosn't mean you don't respect their opimions.
posted by golem
How many British classrooms have the Union flag on display?
None we just don't do that kind of thing. Especially in scotland.
posted by golem
Believe me, most British and especially most English have NO pride in their country, their history, their community, and even no pride in themselves.
They are self centred blinkered rather than bigoted, television addicted and yet remarkably ignorant about the world beyond what they have been spoon fed by vested interest groups.
I don’t know why this has come about over the years though I suspect that the malign influence of socialism, especially in the education system, has much to answer for.
How many British schools teach the history of Britain in non-politically correct terms?
Let me see history of the British Empire, just how do you teach that in a politically correct manner? What we don't do is pretend everything was nicey nicey.
Social history all the reform acts etc? Our more right wing politicians (tories) objecteded to social history being taught in schools and think history should be about kings and queens and the dates of battles and that cromwell was a nasty man.
How many British homes have the British flag fling outside as a matter of course, not to impress but simply out of pride?
None, it's just not the done thing old boy. There is an assumption that such overt patriotism is akin to fascism. We know we are patriotic and don't need some numpty telling us to fly a flag to prove it. People suggesting it are likely to have suggestions made as to the appropriate place to stick it.
How many NON-British people say “why be proud of my country, it’s just where I happened to be born?â€Â.
Don't know don't care
posted by golem
Believe me, most British and especially most English have NO pride in their country, their history, their community, and even no pride in themselves.
They are self centred blinkered rather than bigoted, television addicted and yet remarkably ignorant about the world beyond what they have been spoon fed by vested interest groups.
I don’t know why this has come about over the years though I suspect that the malign influence of socialism, especially in the education system, has much to answer for.
Nope can't say I agree with you. We tend not to go aroung saying proud to be british-it's kind of a given and it's the kind of thing foreigners do because of their lack of self confidence.
I don’t know why this has come about over the years though I suspect that the malign influence of socialism, especially in the education system, has much to answer for.
What you mean the malign idea that everybody has a right to a good education and being poor should not preclude you from getting it.
posted by diuretic
You're seeing the natural legacy of Margaret Thatcher. Britain seems to be dissolving rather than unifying, after all it was Thatcher who stated there was no such thing as "society" and then set about making sure that her government's policies broke down ideas of a "society" to have them replaced by selfish individualism. Hardly socialism.
Don't forget the daft idea that we don't need manufacturing and that the UK can become a service economy.
Not all she did was bad and we did need to change but not the way she did it. Effectively she killed off the tories as a viable political party and they still haven't recovered.
TB is doing the same to the labour party, the nec=xt few years will be very interesting.
I too lived through Thatcherism, the only thing I would say in her favour is I bet she wouldn't heve got us involved in Iraq.
posted by Golem
And what is precisely is “neo-con� If you mean Adam Smith market led philosophy then your country most emphatically DID need it and still does.
Adam Smith would be birling in his grave at the thought that his ideas were associated with monetarism and it's pouruit of wealth with no social responsibility.
He realised only too well that if you have a gulf between rich and poor, anvantaged and disadvantaged then you are on the way to social ruin. One of the remarkable things about the survival of Britain post napoloenic era was that our domocracy worked and shifted enough to allow social change. But if you think there was no social upheaval and unrest and the ruling classes weren't scared shitless you need to read more of our history. The alternative to compromise and change is bloody conflict. If you don't care about the have nots they sooner or later become the F((Y yous and take action to redress the social balance.
http://www.adamsmith.org/smith/won-intro.htm
The online edition of the wealth of nations.
posted by Golem
Would I prefer that the unemployed did not have a vote? YES. What’s more I oppose the very concept of universal suffrage. There needs to be some qualification for people not least the ability to speak, read, and demonstrate that they can understand the language of the country. Furthermore they should demionstrate an understanding of the whole system and nature of government.
I'm afraid you and i will never agree. Those who are against democracy and freedom of speech have no place in modern society and I will always oppose them.
I notice all those who advocate the removal of universal suffrage always seem to assume they will be allowed to rule and can't seem to grasp they have no right to do so. If you would seize power by force don't be surprised when it is taken away from you by the singularly unimpressed lower orders.
posted by golem
It particularly galls me when I see British people criticizing other countries, especially the US, when they have so very much more wrong with their own society, or when people write about the place being so nice when their knowledge is based on what they saw on a vacation or on what they knew many years ago.
It amuses me when foreigners criticise the UK usually from a standpoint of ignorance and lack of understanding and in the absurd belief that we care what they think. It especially amuses me when they do it in English.
I don't know. Many confuse passionate disagreement with personal dislike. What I suspect this thread might turn in to is a rip roaring arguement amongst people who passionately disagree about some issues and love arguing, and more to the point know their subject and can put the points well.
That isn't the same as getting nasty or personal. People only chuck personal insults about when they nothing else to say. You might agree to disagree with someone but that dosn't mean you don't respect their opimions.
posted by golem
How many British classrooms have the Union flag on display?
None we just don't do that kind of thing. Especially in scotland.
posted by golem
Believe me, most British and especially most English have NO pride in their country, their history, their community, and even no pride in themselves.
They are self centred blinkered rather than bigoted, television addicted and yet remarkably ignorant about the world beyond what they have been spoon fed by vested interest groups.
I don’t know why this has come about over the years though I suspect that the malign influence of socialism, especially in the education system, has much to answer for.
How many British schools teach the history of Britain in non-politically correct terms?
Let me see history of the British Empire, just how do you teach that in a politically correct manner? What we don't do is pretend everything was nicey nicey.
Social history all the reform acts etc? Our more right wing politicians (tories) objecteded to social history being taught in schools and think history should be about kings and queens and the dates of battles and that cromwell was a nasty man.
How many British homes have the British flag fling outside as a matter of course, not to impress but simply out of pride?
None, it's just not the done thing old boy. There is an assumption that such overt patriotism is akin to fascism. We know we are patriotic and don't need some numpty telling us to fly a flag to prove it. People suggesting it are likely to have suggestions made as to the appropriate place to stick it.
How many NON-British people say “why be proud of my country, it’s just where I happened to be born?â€Â.
Don't know don't care
posted by golem
Believe me, most British and especially most English have NO pride in their country, their history, their community, and even no pride in themselves.
They are self centred blinkered rather than bigoted, television addicted and yet remarkably ignorant about the world beyond what they have been spoon fed by vested interest groups.
I don’t know why this has come about over the years though I suspect that the malign influence of socialism, especially in the education system, has much to answer for.
Nope can't say I agree with you. We tend not to go aroung saying proud to be british-it's kind of a given and it's the kind of thing foreigners do because of their lack of self confidence.
I don’t know why this has come about over the years though I suspect that the malign influence of socialism, especially in the education system, has much to answer for.
What you mean the malign idea that everybody has a right to a good education and being poor should not preclude you from getting it.
posted by diuretic
You're seeing the natural legacy of Margaret Thatcher. Britain seems to be dissolving rather than unifying, after all it was Thatcher who stated there was no such thing as "society" and then set about making sure that her government's policies broke down ideas of a "society" to have them replaced by selfish individualism. Hardly socialism.
Don't forget the daft idea that we don't need manufacturing and that the UK can become a service economy.
Not all she did was bad and we did need to change but not the way she did it. Effectively she killed off the tories as a viable political party and they still haven't recovered.
TB is doing the same to the labour party, the nec=xt few years will be very interesting.
I too lived through Thatcherism, the only thing I would say in her favour is I bet she wouldn't heve got us involved in Iraq.
posted by Golem
And what is precisely is “neo-con� If you mean Adam Smith market led philosophy then your country most emphatically DID need it and still does.
Adam Smith would be birling in his grave at the thought that his ideas were associated with monetarism and it's pouruit of wealth with no social responsibility.
He realised only too well that if you have a gulf between rich and poor, anvantaged and disadvantaged then you are on the way to social ruin. One of the remarkable things about the survival of Britain post napoloenic era was that our domocracy worked and shifted enough to allow social change. But if you think there was no social upheaval and unrest and the ruling classes weren't scared shitless you need to read more of our history. The alternative to compromise and change is bloody conflict. If you don't care about the have nots they sooner or later become the F((Y yous and take action to redress the social balance.
http://www.adamsmith.org/smith/won-intro.htm
The online edition of the wealth of nations.
posted by Golem
Would I prefer that the unemployed did not have a vote? YES. What’s more I oppose the very concept of universal suffrage. There needs to be some qualification for people not least the ability to speak, read, and demonstrate that they can understand the language of the country. Furthermore they should demionstrate an understanding of the whole system and nature of government.
I'm afraid you and i will never agree. Those who are against democracy and freedom of speech have no place in modern society and I will always oppose them.
I notice all those who advocate the removal of universal suffrage always seem to assume they will be allowed to rule and can't seem to grasp they have no right to do so. If you would seize power by force don't be surprised when it is taken away from you by the singularly unimpressed lower orders.
posted by golem
It particularly galls me when I see British people criticizing other countries, especially the US, when they have so very much more wrong with their own society, or when people write about the place being so nice when their knowledge is based on what they saw on a vacation or on what they knew many years ago.
It amuses me when foreigners criticise the UK usually from a standpoint of ignorance and lack of understanding and in the absurd belief that we care what they think. It especially amuses me when they do it in English.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
For one thing, I think for you to use "England afraid to fly it's own flag" for the name of the thread couldnt be more insufficient. You cant honestly try and tell me that the country of England, or any self respecting country for that matter, would be afraid to raise its flag in a display of patriotism. Im not even English and I find it a little insulting. I realize that you may be quoting a report that you have read, and thats fine, Im not pointing the finger at you....but one thing is for sure...I wouldnt have wrote the title...I just simply know better.
The entire story is "hogwash" if you ask me, and I wouldnt blame alot of British people to be outraged by simply being associated with the idea, let alone by being ridiculed by these protests.
Simply insulting.
The entire story is "hogwash" if you ask me, and I wouldnt blame alot of British people to be outraged by simply being associated with the idea, let alone by being ridiculed by these protests.
Simply insulting.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
My neighbourhood is awash with the England flag. No lack of patriotism up my street. A lot of them are permanent fixtures, too.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
But the Islamic protest forced some corporations, such as cable companies NTL, Heathrow airport in London, and even the Drivers and Vehicles Licensing Agency to ban the flag in every form due to fears from reactions of Muslims.
The Sun tabloid newspaper has in recent days launched a campaign to bring back the flag, and has published a blacklist of companies preventing their workers from expressing their patriotism at work.
The Sun said that a large pub network has banned drinkers from entering with symbols of the national team.
Here's a link to the sun newspaper. have a hunt for the story
http://www.thesun.co.uk/
I'm afraid I got distracted
http://www.page3.com/
If there was any truth to the story you have no idea the uproar it would cause.
There are four kinds of people in the UK -
First, there were the Scots who kept the Sabbath - and everything else they could lay their hands on;
Then there were the Welsh - who prayed on their knees and their neighbours;
Thirdly there were the Irish who never knew what they wanted - but were willing to fight for it anyway.
Lastly there were the English who considered themselves self-made men, - thus relieving the Almighty of a terrible responsibility.
:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
The Sun tabloid newspaper has in recent days launched a campaign to bring back the flag, and has published a blacklist of companies preventing their workers from expressing their patriotism at work.
The Sun said that a large pub network has banned drinkers from entering with symbols of the national team.
Here's a link to the sun newspaper. have a hunt for the story
http://www.thesun.co.uk/
I'm afraid I got distracted
http://www.page3.com/
If there was any truth to the story you have no idea the uproar it would cause.
There are four kinds of people in the UK -
First, there were the Scots who kept the Sabbath - and everything else they could lay their hands on;
Then there were the Welsh - who prayed on their knees and their neighbours;
Thirdly there were the Irish who never knew what they wanted - but were willing to fight for it anyway.
Lastly there were the English who considered themselves self-made men, - thus relieving the Almighty of a terrible responsibility.
:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Quote:
And what is precisely is “neo-con� If you mean Adam Smith market led philosophy then your country most emphatically DID need it and still does.
You know exactly what it is. Economic theory from the Austrian School of economics.
In the olden days we had druids that cut open chickens and studied the entrails and tried to divine the future. Nowadays we have economists who do use spreadsheets looking for patterns in the shifting numbers to divine the future and work out what to do next. Neither approach is effective but causes no major problems so long as men of common sense don't give them too much credence.
I confess little knowledge of the austrian school of economics. I get fed up with economic theory, it's almost like a religon with schisms and different lines of approach, social engineering with little regard or respect for the social.
posted by diuretic
From where I am it looks as though New Labour has been a failure. Blair is a wet Thatcherite. Labour stands a chance if Blair goes now, otherwise I can see Cameron and the Tories making some major inroads. And that might not be a bad thing, only fools keep going with what doesn't work.
It's not just a failure it's a major disappointment. We now have a labour party that's more tory than the tories were combined with all the petty bickering and back stabbing that seems endemic to "left wing" parties
TB isn't going and labour MP's haven't plucked up the courage to get rid of him. He's living in cloud cuckoo land convinced that more spin will get him out of trouble.
I wouldn't worry about the UK constant change is how we have endured for so long. There is no glorious better past, just the past.
Perhaps Golem should worry about israel's survival. Who knows maybe the palestinians will call your bluff, recognise the state of israel and lay claim to all the water currently being taken from under their land to supply Israel. As a tactic it might be a lot more effective than terrorism.
And what is precisely is “neo-con� If you mean Adam Smith market led philosophy then your country most emphatically DID need it and still does.
You know exactly what it is. Economic theory from the Austrian School of economics.
In the olden days we had druids that cut open chickens and studied the entrails and tried to divine the future. Nowadays we have economists who do use spreadsheets looking for patterns in the shifting numbers to divine the future and work out what to do next. Neither approach is effective but causes no major problems so long as men of common sense don't give them too much credence.
I confess little knowledge of the austrian school of economics. I get fed up with economic theory, it's almost like a religon with schisms and different lines of approach, social engineering with little regard or respect for the social.
posted by diuretic
From where I am it looks as though New Labour has been a failure. Blair is a wet Thatcherite. Labour stands a chance if Blair goes now, otherwise I can see Cameron and the Tories making some major inroads. And that might not be a bad thing, only fools keep going with what doesn't work.
It's not just a failure it's a major disappointment. We now have a labour party that's more tory than the tories were combined with all the petty bickering and back stabbing that seems endemic to "left wing" parties
TB isn't going and labour MP's haven't plucked up the courage to get rid of him. He's living in cloud cuckoo land convinced that more spin will get him out of trouble.
I wouldn't worry about the UK constant change is how we have endured for so long. There is no glorious better past, just the past.
Perhaps Golem should worry about israel's survival. Who knows maybe the palestinians will call your bluff, recognise the state of israel and lay claim to all the water currently being taken from under their land to supply Israel. As a tactic it might be a lot more effective than terrorism.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
I shall fly the flag with pride...us brits will only let them go so far before we batter them....ask Hitler and his motly crew.
:-5 :-5 :-5
:-5 :-5 :-5
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Every other house in my road is flying the flag....every other car is covered with flags ....every single shop has some kind of England display.....I have my England balloons (to the amusement of my grandchildren)...
Afraid to fly the English flag....BALDERDASH !!!!:)
Afraid to fly the English flag....BALDERDASH !!!!:)
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
ArnoldLayne wrote: 
Bez has got her balloons out
Yep !!! :yh_rotfl and very nice they look too !!;)
Bez has got her balloons outYep !!! :yh_rotfl and very nice they look too !!;)
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Round here there are very few english flags but trust me on this, it has nothing to do with islamic extremist groups. I would let my wife fly one if she wanted to, well actually the resulting aggro if I suggested she shouldn't would not be worth it, let's just say annoying a woman from the north of england is not a good idea.
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
gmc wrote: Round here there are very few english flags but trust me on this, it has nothing to do with islamic extremist groups. I would let my wife fly one if she wanted to, well actually the resulting aggro if I suggested she shouldn't would not be worth it, let's just say annoying a woman from the north of england is not a good idea.Very wise! :wah:
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
i had a friend from cambridge stay with me last world cup, i painted her face & nails white & red & let her have an england flag draped over a chair but not out the window, comprimise 
England afraid to fly it's own flag.
Bez;317770 wrote: Every other house in my road is flying the flag....every other car is covered with flags ....every single shop has some kind of England display.....I have my England balloons (to the amusement of my grandchildren)...
Afraid to fly the English flag....BALDERDASH !!!!:)
I am afraid it is true.
Not many people fly the flag of St. George on Merseyside.
It really is a shame.
Afraid to fly the English flag....BALDERDASH !!!!:)
I am afraid it is true.
Not many people fly the flag of St. George on Merseyside.
It really is a shame.