Scary thought

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:05 am

God permits physical evil like rape in this world.

Does he not also permit supernatural or spiritual evil?

Lotto

"Let's get rid of the 7K"

MagicZ1212

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:00 am

God gave us free will to do as we pleased and without which we'd be robots.

Which would you rather be? A free peron or a zombie?

We are all made from good and evil and we all have the right to choose good or evil. The path we follow is our own choice.

You cannot have good without evil, everything is in balance. If no evil were permitted, no good would be permitted either.

Although permit is not a good word. We are not 'permitted' or 'allowed'.

We don't have to sign a form in triplicate for 'permission' - things just 'ARE' and we have to choose how we want them to 'BE'.

Does that make sense?

It does to me anyway.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:23 pm

Diuretic wrote: Humans define what's "good" and what's "evil"? All actions are just actions, it's the social context that defines them as something other than simple occurrences.
My thoughts exactly. What some may consider evil, others see as good. Or at least, not really evil. Some see alternate sexual preferences as evil, while to others it is simply natural.

I think while most humans see rape, or crimes against children as evil...ther people performing these acts do not see it at all.

Who is to say what is right or wrong? Yes we have laws, but is something that is against the laws of a country necissarily evil?

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:24 pm

Here is another thought, which I wanted to separate from my last thoughts.

is "Because it is in the bible" a good enough reason to deem something good or evil?

undyingxopurity3 · Post by **undyingxopurity3** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:35 pm

Ok- so I agree- I mean, just because it IS against the law-does that make it *EVIL*? I mean honestly, it DOES depend on the actual (CRIME) or whatnot...

Because me, being a rape victim myself; I personally realize what something as tragic as rape can do to a young girl's life... so to me, yes, rape is *EVIL*...

But I also don't think that just because SOME people think that something is right or wrong, then if others disagree, then its *EVIL*... I don't think that at all... but there ARE boundaries to be drawn...

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:05 pm

hmmm thats why i dont believe in god

Carolyn · Post by **Carolyn** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:36 am

I believe in compassion, ethics, science, and nature. Anything that causes harm to another human being is not a compassionate act. Doing something that is dishonest is unethical. As intellegent individuals, we do not need a book that was written hundreds of years after the fact, changed, and edited to tell us what is right or wrong. If you wouldn't want it done to you---it's wrong.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:24 pm

Carolyn:-6

Excellent post.

One of the best thougts I have heard on good and evil says that if it is life affirming it is good and if it is life denying then it is evil.

We could add to that "Do unto others as you would have them do to you". This precludes, of course the psycopath or the mentally unstable or the developmentally challenged. They are all special cases and need to be looked at individually.

Shalom

Ted:-6

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:36 pm

LottomagicZ4941 wrote: God permits physical evil like rape in this world.

Does he not also permit supernatural or spiritual evil?

Lotto

"Let's get rid of the 7K"

MagicZ1212

EXCUEEEZE ME...................GOD does not permit this.......................HUMANS do it bcause they have no control over themselves.

Carolyn · Post by **Carolyn** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:20 pm

nvalleyvee wrote: EXCUEEEZE ME...................GOD does not permit this.......................HUMANS do it bcause they have no control over themselves.

Humans have control over themselves. It's just that not all humans think the same. Most have empathy and sympathy for others. Some only think of the means to an end. They feel that the rules don't apply to them and they can do what they want no matter who gets hurt in the process. But, it is still a decision that they make. They know that what they do is illiegal or immoral, but they think they are too smart to get caught. The fact that they know what they do is wrong--yet still do it--shows that they have control of their actions.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:21 pm

nvalleyvee:-6

Right on. I am sure that God is saddened by our horrible behaviour. We not only create our own hell but often the hell of others as well.

Shalom

Ted:-6

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:55 am

Ted wrote: Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted, I really like the way you sign off your posts.

Shalom to you as well:)

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:36 pm

cherandbuster:-6

Thanks.

Shalom

Ted:-6

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:38 am

flopstock wrote: Where in the world did you come from??

More importantly, where the heck have you been?:-6

I come from a small town that historically respected the Bible as God's word.

Where have I been?

Computer got sent off for an upgrade. (But this only accounted for about 2 weeks) Probably should have just bought a new one. Totally cool to have the sound back up!!!! Erik is cool with me being on the computer as long as it has some sound. Last few days he has actually wanted to enter the computer room.

Still with him only being 15 months I always follow him up and down the steps.

So I'm doing more reading and less posting. Today I was online searching for a sauerkraut recipie. Use to make it once a month but went so long with out making it I forgot how. Looks like the masses just use salt and sauerkraut.

Lotto

"Requesting Vengence from the Lord; but, I'll settle for justice"

MagicZ4941

PS Dosen't it take more faith to believe in randomness then the one great true God?

Mongoose · Post by **Mongoose** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:07 pm

Diuretic wrote: It's just not rational to believe in god. It's about hope rather than reason.

Why?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:57 pm

Personally, I think there is faith without reason and there is faith with reason. There is such a thing as blind faith and there is a reasoned out faith.

Of course hope is also part of faith.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:37 am

Diuretic:-6

There are many people, scientists and theologians who would strongly disagree with you on that.

What evidence is against an after-life? It is like trying to prove the existence of God with logic. Circular arguments on both sides get knowhere and become a total waste of time.

I will have more to say on rationalism later. A good book is "Evolutionary Faity" by Diarmuid O'Murchu-both a social psychologist and a Roman Catholic priest. Arthur Peacock a micro-biolobist and Anglican Priest also has a good book called "The New Biology". Paul Davies a theoretical physicist has also produced some good books one of which is "The Mind of God".

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:50 pm

Diuretic:-6

I have abslutely no intentions of getting into either a discussion of the existence of God or the afterlife. Both are a waste of time.

'Humans are highly intelligent animals that understand existence and non-existence and hope for a continuing existence even though the evidence is against it."

You are the one who indicated there was plenty of evidence against such a belief.

That being said I have enough proof for my own belief to satisfy me. That is all I need. Could I be wrong? Sure. However, I don't believe I am. The word used in the church and by theologians is "hope".

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:44 pm

Diuretic:-6

Yeah, she must have forgotten> LOL

On logic and rationality.

In considering the concept of rationality there are several problems that arise.

Logic makes some assumptions that cannot be proven. Deductive reasoning moves from premises to a conclusion. Inductive reasoning moves from generalizations to specifics. Deduction has a few problems. One concerns the validity of the premises. Einstein said that a thousand examples may ultimately be upset by one that does not fit. Inductive reasoning has the problem that at best it is a guess, a projection of possibility. It is not and never has been a certainty.

The next problem is that logic is itself a theoretical construct rather than an empirical construct As such and as a human invention it will never be perfect

The next problem lies with the idea of pure objectivity. This is a concept whose reality does not exist. Everything we see or hear is passed through and interpreted by the human brain which automatically introduces subjectivity. Even the instruments that we create to measure factors are human creations and thus once again automatically involves the filtration through the human brain. We can never see a thing as it is because it must be seen or experienced, if you will, and then interpreted by the human brain.

The next problem is a metaphysical one. â€œIt consists in an error that can be called the fallacy of reductionism-[now realized by science as a problem even in science] assigning a much greater reality to the parts of an organized whole than to the whole itself; or even worse, maintaining that only the ultimate component parts have reality and that the wholes they constitute are mere appearances or even illusory. According to that view, the real existences that constitute the physical world are the elementary particles that are components of the atom. When we regard human individuals as having the real existence and the enduring identity that they appear to have, we are suffering an illusion. If that is the case, then again we are devoid of moral responsibility for our own action.â€ Pg XIX;; â€œTen Philosophical Mistakesâ€; Mortimer J. Adler.

Scientists now admit that in many cases the whole is in fact greater than the some of its parts and thus reductionism is a faulty approach.

â€œScience circumvents the mystery through excessive rationality, while religion does so by projecting all meaning to the external patriarchal Godhead.â€ Pg 81; â€œEvolutionary Faithâ€; D. Oâ€™Murchu.

If you desire more quotes I can give you some from Paul Davies, Arthur Peacock and others.

Actually Lazarus may in fact be a midrash.

We also have the so called "near death experiences" but that is an whole other subject.

I should also add that it would appear that much of quantum theory is beyond logic and yet shows itself to be empirically valid. Logic does not answer many of the empirical factors that quantum theory raises. Here is an example of logic not fitting in with reality. Now even the very nature of reality is in question.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:28 pm

Diuretic:-6

I actually agree with you. I am simply pointing out that nothing is without its problems, not even rationalism. Yet some have made a religioun out of logic.

Shalom

Ted:-6