Vote for President, not Party

[Accountable]

People, vote for the person you judge to be most qualified to be President, PERIOD! Stop buying into the myth that you have to vote either Republican or Democrat.



Now that neither candidate is worth warm spit, the used party salesmen are trying to say it matters because the President nominates Supreme Court Justice, and you don't want 'the other side' making such important decisions!



Bullshit. Ther is no 'other side' when it comes to our party with two names.



Here's how much it matters who decides on Supreme Court Justice. The latest big decision is whether a state will be allowed their right under the Constitution how they will punish child rapists:

For allowing states their constitutional right to punish child rapists with the death penalty:



John G. Roberts, Jr

Nominated by President George W. Bush



Samuel Anthony Alito, Jr

Nominated by President George W. Bush



Antonin Scalia

Nominated by President Reagan



Clarence Thomas

Nominated by President GHW Bush





Against allowing states their constitutional right to punish child rapists with the death penalty:

John Paul Stevens

Nominated by President Ford



Anthony M. Kennedy

Nominated by President Reagan



Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Nominated by President Clinton



Stephen G. Breyer

Nominated by President Clinton



David Hackett Souter

Nominated by President GHW Bush

Link to Story

Link to Supreme Court



See our political system for what it has become. Find a second party to help blow away the smoke.

[QUINNSCOMMENTARY]

People, vote for the person you judge to be most qualified to be President, PERIOD! Stop buying into the myth that you have to vote either Republican or Democrat.

I agree in theory, in fact here is what John Adams said about it: "There is nothing I dread so much as a division of the Republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader and converting measures into opposition to each other." Political parties are to be "dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." John Adams" Washington had a similar view and up until the thrid or fourth Congress things operated that way with a fair amount of harmony, then all hell broke lose and it has been down hill every since.

At the same time RJ is right, it ain't gonna happen. American's see things black or white (as I have been accused of doing) and that means Republican or Democrat. :-5

[Accountable]

rjwould;899042 wrote: I believe Breyer was one of Clinton's.Good catch. I fixed it.



rjwould wrote: But I disagree with your premise because the President must work with congress, and the truth is that the president needs party support. I wish that wasn't a reality, and it would be interesting to see how a third party president would fare.Don't you think it would be easier to claim "bipartisan" *snicker* progress if the president wasn't beholden to one side or the other?



rjwould wrote: Unfortunately, the system is rigged by the two party system. Thats our reality and unless its changed from the bottom up, a third party doesn't stand a chance of having a president elected, IMO. Many have given it a heck of a good try though.QUINNSCOMMENTARY;899072 wrote: At the same time RJ is right, it ain't gonna happen. American's see things black or white (as I have been accused of doing) and that means Republican or Democrat.




Surely you're not suggesting it's not even worth the effort?? Maybe you could find someone who would support your ideas on education, RJ. That alone I would think would be incentive enough.

[Accountable]

Jester;899329 wrote: Reality check (not that I like it but its the way it is)...



Theres the basics that divide the nation:



prolife/prodeath-the abortion issue

dont you dare rasie my taxes/raise some other groups taxes-the economy issue

capitalists/conserv-o-environmentalist-the myth issues of the pursuit of happiness



The majority of either group, regardless of what other issues come into play will typically stay with the party that is alligned with what they believe is right...



The few who dont care one way or the other or dont have an opinon on 'it', will shift back and forth based on other issues....



My point being is that we have a large group that votes one way or the other no matter what... the 'swing voters' rob votes from the large body- the name of the game is to cater to the fringe issues of the swing voters...



What I hear you advocating takes away form the large base of what Im more aligned with in my ideology, for me its not an issue of a lessor evil, but someone I can move forward with that belive more of what I belive than the other guy.



In what you said I see a Ross Perot issue all over again. By voting out of my party Im helping the opposition. Strategic voting all over again. The two party system destroys my ability to really vote who I want, they dont stand a chance.
:yh_eyerol Clean yer glasses, Jester. There ain't an opposition when it comes to the Republicratic Party!



Seriously, what are you voting for between these two??

Abortion? They'll both allow it.

Taxes? Don't think for one second that McCain won't sign on to raise taxes if he see's a way to advance his on cause(s).

National healthcare? If you want it, you got it now, baby!

Environmental issues? They both buy into the global warming thing; not a hair's difference between them.



You're not the helpless type so stop writing like you are. This so-called two party system won't give you what you want. That doesn't mean it destoys your ability to vote for the best person for the job. Get it right.

[Accountable]

Jester;899437 wrote: In our sytem there is only two real choices and I get ya bud, I do, but, reality says just two practical choices on the shelf with any viablity to win.There are lots of choices, but so long as you perpetuate the myth it will remain a self-fulfilling prophesy.



Jester wrote: It isnt that Im thinking helplessly, in fact Im fighting mad and Im going to get in the process to campagin against both my senators and representatives next go around.Against them and for whom?!? The other republican who's on first-name basis with the same lobbyists that own the last one? How's that change?



Jester wrote: The reality is that unless I hold out hope beyond hope that a whole group is as dissatisfied as I am with the choices AND decides to go my way, then I may end up with an Obama type in the whitehouse.The reality is that unless you and the millions of other dissatisfied voters don't get out of the rut we've been in for over 100 years, an Obama type is exactly what you'll get, over and over. Unless somebody has the leadership, the gumption, to fight the status quo instead of waiting for someone else, nothing will change. If you do nothing to change things and nothing changes, how can you not blame yourself?



Jester wrote: Yes its true both O and MC, will keep abortion going, and tax us and give us national healthcare... etc. But Mc will try to change the advances in abortion rights more towards prolife and O wont, O will expand and rights andgive more access to more people to murder thier unborn children... I can't abide by that, so I wont give O any chance to do it by wasting my vote on anyone other than his best opponent, which is McCain.You just keep that finger in the dyke then. Don't sweat all the other cracks and leaks, that one should keep the whole wall up. :rolleyes:



Jester wrote: I'm seeing my America fade, I'm quickly becoming discouraged. I havnt felt represented by a politician since I moved to CA. I think its time to abolish the United States and let regions/states form thier own governments.Stop "quickly becoming discouraged" and get pissed off! This bus is headed the wrong direction and everybody thinks that just because the driver is giving two choices (ya wanna go on the left side of this lane or the right side of the same lane?) that two choices is all there is. We need to stop the bus and turn it around. Nobody's going to holler until somebody starts hollering. Start hollering!



Remember the school dance where nobody would go out to dance because nobody was dancing? Once one couple stepped onto the floor everybody joined in. Well, everybody's waiting for that couple.

[YZGI]

Accountable;899476 wrote:

Stop "quickly becoming discouraged" and get pissed off! This bus is headed the wrong direction and everybody thinks that just because the driver is giving two choices (ya wanna go on the left side of this lane or the right side of the same lane?) that two choices is all there is. We need to stop the bus and turn it around. Nobody's going to holler until somebody starts hollering. Start hollering!




If a disgruntled voter hollers in the forest will there be any politicians around to hear and will they care?

[along-for-the-ride]

I have voted for the "third party" candidate a couple ot times. And after the tallying is done, all that is shown is that a small minority took votes away from the Republicans and Democrats. I always thought if you vote for a particular candidate, you also vote for what his party stands for.

[Accountable]

Jester;899555 wrote: Look at it form my perspective:



A vote for McCain is avote against Obama.



A vote for ________________ (write in any other candidate) is a vote for Obama.

A vote for McCain is a vote for Obama because McCain is going to do all he can to show how bipartisan he is. He'll bend over backward so far you'll hear his spine pop. You're getting taxed, regardless. Abortion will be free & easy, and probaby covered by national healthcare, regardless.

[Accountable]

along-for-the-ride;899590 wrote: I have voted for the "third party" candidate a couple ot times. And after the tallying is done, all that is shown is that a small minority took votes away from the Republicans and Democrats. I always thought if you vote for a particular candidate, you also vote for what his party stands for.
Keep voting for the best person. Tell other people why you're voting for that person. State and local governments have members from other parties and their numbers are growing. Sooner or later (hopefully sooner) someone will get into congress, then another. A myth is a difficult thing to compete against.

[Accountable]

Jester;899611 wrote: Nope, I dont belive that. McCain still holds philisophical differences which will slow the progression to socialism... and Obama is headed straight for one entitlement after another... I just cant do it.



You have to come up with a better argument than gives me more hope that my vote wont be wasted on a third party.



Nobody else has a chance.
Then neither do we. And since we don't, we also have nothing to lose because we've lost already. You go ahead and continue your progression to socialism, however slow. I'm throwing my vote away on someone willing to try to change the course.

[Accountable]

Jester;899656 wrote: ACC, Who is going to try to change the course? And how is he actually going to even try to change the course IF he can't get the chance to try even if 1/3 of the votors decide to elect him?Nobody's going to try because nobody's complaining loudly enough about the course we're on. You said you want to slow our course toward socialism. What difference does it make how fast we get to where we don't want to be?



*Cues Bare Naked Ladies* If I had a million dollars, I'd throw it behind Bob Barr just to get a different voice heard. Of course I wouldn't give him one dime, I'd have to bribe somebody in the news media.

[Accountable]

You eat an elephant one bite at a time. Nothing's going to happen tomorrow, that's true. But nothing's going to happen at all if we don't start rocking the boat. Complaining about the system then voting for a party puppet is like going on a hunger strike till supper.



Here's your scenario. You hear your neighbors bitching about the politician they voted for because he's not doing something about the environment, never mind that he never said he would. You join in and say something to the effect of "Yeh, too bad more people didn't vote for James Bobison (fictional name; replace it with the real guy) like I did. He promised he'd fight to get this fixed and I believe him."



"Oh?" says Ms Neighbor. "Who's that? Never heard of him."

"He's the independent/Libertarian/Let's-burn-the-brush Party nominee. If he runs next year I'm voting for him again."

There will be the usual cackle of "If you don't vote Demopublican you're throwing your vote away." You let that wash by and look at the faces and eyes of those that stayed silent.



Next year, Bobison gets incredibly close. Maybe even wins. More minds crack open just a little.



You take another bite of the elephant.

[Accountable]

Jester;900873 wrote: I like it, (not eating elephant)... :-2 Can you bar-B-que elephant?



But I'm not willing to let a man like Obama (ultra liberal fool) get in, in the mean time?



I'll try your way in a year when its not so important.
I'll wash the big forks.

[BTS]

Accountable;899931 wrote: Nobody's going to try because nobody's complaining loudly enough about the course we're on. You said you want to slow our course toward socialism. What difference does it make how fast we get to where we don't want to be?



*Cues Bare Naked Ladies* If I had a million dollars, I'd throw it behind Bob Barr just to get a different voice heard. Of course I wouldn't give him one dime, I'd have to bribe somebody in the news media.


You know ACC you finally mentioned Bob Barr (who I will vote for this year) Not in protest but because he stands for what I believe in. (MORE than McCain) Also, you are SOOOOOOo right IMO that McCain and OOBaammaa are one in the same.

[Accountable]

BTS;913604 wrote: You know ACC you finally mentioned Bob Barr (who I will vote for this year) Not in protest but because he stands for what I believe in. (MORE than McCain) Also, you are SOOOOOOo right IMO that McCain and OOBaammaa are one in the same.
Yup. I don't understand the logic of "I'm against big government so I'm voting for the side that grows it more slowly." :yh_eyebro Let's give shrinking the gov't a shot, whatsay?

[Nomad]

People, vote for the person you judge to be most qualified to be President, PERIOD! Stop buying into the myth that you have to vote either Republican or Democrat.






Of course.

Eyes wide open.

[Accountable]

C-Span Bob Barr interview

[shelbell]

I see myself more as a traditionalist...which tends to be more conservative. I can't understand someone claiming to be a Christian, yet supporting partial birth abortion or gay marriage. These are things the Bible talks about and are taught in Christian faithes...either they are saying they have this faith just to get votes, or they let the approval of the people pull them away from their faith.

[Accountable]

shelbell;932198 wrote: I see myself more as a traditionalist...which tends to be more conservative. I can't understand someone claiming to be a Christian, yet supporting partial birth abortion or gay marriage. These are things the Bible talks about and are taught in Christian faithes...either they are saying they have this faith just to get votes, or they let the approval of the people pull them away from their faith.
Shouldn't both of those issues be decided at the state level and be completely left out of the federal gov't?

[shelbell]

Accountable;932230 wrote: Shouldn't both of those issues be decided at the state level and be completely left out of the federal gov't?


IMO, no. Some things need to adhere to the law of the land...that's why we have a higher government. But again, IMO.

[Accountable]

shelbell;932258 wrote: IMO, no. Some things need to adhere to the law of the land...that's why we have a higher government. But again, IMO.
I agree. The law of the land specifies what the federal gov't is responsible for and leaves the rest to the states.