ForumGarden

Slade1 wrote: It certainly does make perfect sense. And if guns were not easily bought and sold over there then an illegal firearm may not be so easy to come by, just a thought...
An erroneous thought at that. The criminals would still get guns, no matter if they were outlawed or not. That's what makes them criminals. Why is this such a difficult concept for people to grasp?

ArnoldLayne wrote: I feel a little foolish because I have changed my mind so many times. I genuinly understand both sides. When an outrage occurs my first thoughts are hang 'em high. Then Clancy comes and puts a spanner in the works and I'm back to square one


My problem with it is the premeditated way that it is carried out, as I've said. If you kill someone who's attacking you family or whatever and you kill them (with like.. a cricket bat or something) then that's fine. It's the state sanctioned, detached and cold blooded method that disturbs me...

BabyRider wrote: An erroneous thought at that. The criminals would still get guns, no matter if they were outlawed or not. That's what makes them criminals. Why is this such a difficult concept for people to grasp?


No, I grasp that fact. There are so many factors involved, believe me I have done my research on this. I don't just blame legalised firearms, I just don't think it helps the situation. I reckon we should leave it at that, otherwise we going to go 'round & 'round, plus people keep hinting to get back on to the subject...

Clancy wrote: I'm a Scot, BR ...and I never accuse or point the finger at any descision made by another democratic country. If you ask the right people, I'm sure you'll find that I am Pro American.



If I'm asked an opinion....sure I'll give it. But I never resort to finger pointing, or insults. I've seen that happen in here, from both sides (UK & US) merely to score points.
It's not my intention to point a finger at a specific person either, Clancy. Just a general observation that a large chunk of the world loves to blame America for so much that is wrong. I am not and have never said we are a perfect country, but we sure as hell aren't responsible for most of the stuff some would like to blame us for.

I too, believe in personal accountability, and will take responsibility for what is mine. But only what is mine.

BabyRider wrote: It's not my intention to point a finger at a specific person either, Clancy. Just a general observation that a large chunk of the world loves to blame America for so much that is wrong. I am not and have never said we are a perfect country, but we sure as hell aren't responsible for most of the stuff some would like to blame us for.

I too, believe in personal accountability, and will take responsibility for what is mine. But only what is mine.


I'm not blaming America for our problems, we should be able to sort out our own problems. Just because something happens in America, doesn't mean it has to happen here, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I wasn't being anti-America, I was being anti-gun. I am also pro-America, I am anti-Bush though. Hey you've got your problems and we've got ours.

Slade1 wrote:

And funnily enough, I happen to think that the increase in gun crime in Britain has a lot to do with the kids over here being influenced by American 'Gangsta' rap,


Slade1 wrote:

I'm not blaming America for our problems,




So, which is it????

BabyRider wrote: So, which is it????


I don't really think that Gangsta rap represents America, the old stuff used to be a valid social commentary, artists like Grandmaster Flash, Public Enemy & even NWA represented a section of society that was impoverished and angry. That is no longer relevant, all they talk about nowadays is how much money they've got and which car/s they are driving...

Somebody wake me when somebody wants to talk death penalty.

sixyearsleft wrote: Gosh u do talk twaddle, knowbodys being anti-american, your just too serious

u need to lighten up a bit, who's blaming america your the one who's being zenaphobic,



I appologise for saying cowboy maam
Before you embarrass yourself further, let me let you off the hook here: It's quite obvious you haven't paid any attention to the thread itself, just amused yourself with your silly little pictures. That being the case, do yourself 2 favors: 1) read what's going on before you write and make it obvious you haven't got a clue what's going on and 2) hit the spellcheck before you hit submit, it looks like a 9 year old wrote your posts.

January 18, 2006UPDATED: 7:10 am EST January 18, 2006

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- A 2005 study indicating condemned inmates may suffer pain when being put to death by lethal injection is inconclusive and no reason to delay the scheduled execution of a convicted killer, the Florida Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.

The 6-1 opinion rejected a request for an evidentiary hearing on the study sought by Clarence Edward Hill, who is set to die Jan. 24. Hill, 47, of Mobile, Ala., fatally shot Pensacola police officer Stephen Taylor during a 1982 bank robbery.

Hill's lawyer, D. Todd Doss, did not immediately return a call seeking comment. Doss had argued Florida's procedure was unconstitutional because it constituted cruel and unusual punishment.

Assistant Deputy Attorney General Carolyn Snurknowski said death cases usually are further appealed to the federal courts.

Another death row inmate, Arthur D. Rutherford, who is scheduled for execution Jan. 31, has raised the same claim, among others, in an appeal the Supreme Court is set to hear Jan. 26.

The Hill ruling would render Rutherford's lethal injection argument moot "unless they come up with a new idea," Snurkowski said.

Rutherford, 56, killed Stella Salamon at her Santa Rosa County home in 1985. Rutherford had done some repair work for Salamon, whose body was found submerged in a bathtub where she had been drowned or asphyxiated.

Condemned prisoners are injected with three drugs, one to deaden the pain, another to paralyze their bodies and then potassium chloride to cause a fatal heart attack. The study published in the Lancet medical journal indicates the pain killer, sodium pentothal, can wear off before an inmates die.

"As it clearly admits, the study is inconclusive," the high court wrote in an unsigned opinion. "It does not assert that providing an inmate with `no less than two grams' of sodium pentothal, as is Florida's procedure, is not sufficient to render the inmate unconscious."

Justice Harry Lee Anstead dissented, writing that granting a hearing "would present a win-win situation for all. The state would undoubtedly benefit from the opportunity to demonstrate the efficacy of its present protocol for lethal injection executions, and to rebut the conclusions of the scientific study."

The study was conducted by Dr. David A. Lubarsky, chairman of the Department of Anesthesiology, Perioperative Medicine and Pain Management at the University of Miami School of Medicine. It was based on autopsy data from Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina and protocols from Texas and Virginia, which all use the same lethal injection procedure as Florida.

Anstead added that it is ironic to deny a hearing in Hill's case while a trial court has agreed to hold one on the same issue for Ronald Knight, who killed two gay men in Palm Beach County in 1993, although Knight is not yet under death warrant.

"Hill, of course, will not be around to benefit if the trial court in Knight determines that Florida's protocol requires modification," he wrote.

Anstead, however, agreed with the majority in rejecting other claims by Hill including the argument his execution also would be cruel and unusual punishment because he suffers from brain damage and is mentally retarded.

The high court ruled he should have raised that issue during an earlier appeal and a new psychological evaluation in December provided no new information. It found Hill is mildly retarded with an IQ of 86, which is 16 points above the level required for mental retardation in Florida.

sixyearsleft wrote: your pathetic, i've never felt so much hate, get a grip of yourself, its obvious you haven't paid any attention to the thread if you had you would have noticed my thoughts on the matter, you haven't got anything of any substance to say,

and yes i had fun with my little pictures, as for my grammer, Get a life!



and stop the HATE!
Hate is a big word, kiddo. One I reserve for much more serious cases than minor irritations like yourself. If I hated you, trust me, you'd know it, I think you're just overly sensitive. As for the rest of your nonsensical babblings, I'll leave you to them...you apparently have nothing of substance to add here.

Just close your eyes....And think how many people would be alive today....

If their were no guns....wrong... people kill with or without guns ....

lets take a good look, at.

Theirs choices of weapons... the club ,,,,,knife the spear the list goes on..

its a crazy world no matter were u live.....the answer better punishment

for their crimes. We need to know why people ,kill.

first off al we blame tv dirty books .... the live style off the rich and famous'''''

any thing but the human brain.... one day we may have the answer.....daffy52

daffodil52 wrote: Just close your eyes....And think how many people would be alive today....



If their were no guns....wrong... people kill with or without guns ....



lets take a good look, at.



Theirs choices of weapons... the club ,,,,,knife the spear the list goes on..



its a crazy world no matter were u live.....the answer better punishment



for the crimes. We need to know why people ,kill.



first off al we blame tv dirty books .... the live style off the rich and famous'''''



any thing but the human brain.... one day we may have the answer.....daffy52
Thanks, Daffy. The better I get to know you, the more willing I am to struggle through your Liverpolian writing.

Accountable wrote: Thanks, Daffy. The better I get to know you, the more willing I am to struggle through your Liverpolian writing. thank u



daffy52

sixyearsleft wrote: I understand you accountable,

its a very difficult and moralistic subject what effects peoples lifes,

How could i tell the mother of a murdered child so overcome with remorse,

my opinion, its very hard.

The whole subject of capital punishment is deeply distressing for me,

i dont want to go on, i haven't got all the answers, all i know is those of you who say things like fry'm, dont have any substance to them, just weak and stupid,

yes the next step,

I cant help slipping these comments in to my post's, its who i am in real time.

since joining the garden i've quickly realised this is not the place to talk of such things,


You may need some "help"................and I don't mean that in a derogoratory manner.

sixyearsleft wrote: What do you suggest?


I think the point here is that you have to stand up for what you think is right.

The capital punishment debate is like a powder keg (just one of a whole number). I think it's harder to say 'no, it's not right' because you actually have to think about it and search your own conscience. It's a hell of a lot easier to say 'fry'm'.

Good on you sixyearsleft, you've fought your ground on this one for quite some time now, I end up getting frustrated in situations like this, I have to have a couple of days with minimal posting before I can face it again. You're a determined blighter I'll give you that.

I got respect for both of ya (even though you ignored my posts in this thread ). I must say it is truckloads of fun to have new blood with fresh ideas, level heads, and posts with actual thought applied. Lord knows you've shown more control than I have of late.



I'm glad you're here.

SIGNIFICANT EVENTS IN

CLARENCE HILL CASE

Following are significant events in the case of Clarence Hill, condemned for the death of a Pensacola police officer: Oct. 19, 1982, Clarence Hill and Cliff Jackson drive to Pensacola from Mobile, Ala., and rob Freedom Federal Savings Bank. Police arrive and Hill shoots officers Stephen Taylor and Larry Bailly. Taylor dies and Bailly wounded. Hill shot five times but survives.

Nov. 2, 1982, Hill indicted on charge of first-degree murder, attempted first-degree murder, three counts of robbery with a firearm and one charge of possession of a firearm during commission of a felony.

April 29, 1983, jury finds Hill guilty on all charges.

April 29, 1983, jury recommends death by a vote of 10-2.

May 27, 1983, Hill sentenced to death on the first-degree murder conviction and life sentences on the other five counts.

Oct. 10, 1985, Florida Supreme Court overturns the death sentence and returns the case to trial court for a new sentencing hearing. Court ruled the trial court erred in refusing to excuse for cause two jurors because of their preconceived notions.

March 27, 1986, the new jury recommends death by a vote of 11-1.

April 2, 1986, Hill resentenced to death.

Sept. 17, 1987, Florida Supreme Court affirms conviction of first-degree murder and sentence of death.

April 4, 1988, U.S. Supreme Court denies appeal.

Nov. 9, 1989, Gov. Bob Martinez signs death warrant.

Jan. 18, 1990, State Circuit Court denies appeal.

Jan. 26, 1990, Florida Supreme Court denies appeals.

Jan. 28, 1990, U.S. District Court grants Hill a stay of execution.

Oct. 31, 1992, U.S. District Court partially grants petition for writ of habeus corpus.

Oct. 13, 1994, Florida Supreme Court affirms conviction and sentence of death.

Oct. 2, 1995, U.S. Supreme Court denies appeal.

Nov. 26, 1996, U.S. District Court denies appeal.

May 15, 1999, 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denies appeal.

Jan. 10, 2000, U.S. Supreme Court denies appeal.

May 26, 2004, State Circuit Court denies appeal.

May 13, 2005, Florida Supreme Court denies appeal.

Nov. 29, 2005, Gov. Jeb Bush signs death warrant, sets execution for Jan. 24, 2006.

Dec. 15, 2005, State Circuit Court denies appeal.

Jan. 10, 2006, Florida Supreme Court hears oral arguments in Hill's appeal.

Jan. 17, 2006, Florida Supreme Court denies appeal.

Jan. 19, 2006, Hill appeals to U.S. Supreme Court.

Jan. 24, 2006, Hill's execution scheduled for 6 p.m. at Florida State Prison. Source: Commission on Capital Cases









Man Who Killed Pensacola Officer In 1982 Set For Execution Tuesday





POSTED: 12:48 pm EST January 23, 2006



JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Condemned inmate Clarence Hill, scheduled to die Tuesday for the 1982 slaying of a Pensacola police officer during a bank holdup, pressed his fight Monday to stop his execution.

Hill lost an appeal in federal court in Tallahassee Saturday and had appeals pending with the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta and the U.S. Supreme Court, said Carolyn Snurkowski, a death appeals attorney for Attorney General Charlie Crist.

Hill's appeals have contended the three chemicals used in Florida's lethal injection method of execution is cruel and unusual punishment because it causes pain.

Snurkowski said the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled against inmates in four other states on the same grounds.

Hill, who is scheduled to die at Florida State Prison in Starke, also claimed the he should not be executed since he is mentally retarded. But that argument was rejected by the state Supreme Court, which noted that a mental evaluation of Hill showed he was mildly retarded and his IQ was 16 points higher than the standard of 70 or below.

Hill, 48, who has converted to Islam and taken the name Razzaq Muhammad, says on a Web site, www.SurvivingTheSystem.com, that he and his friend, Cliff Jackson, both of Mobile, Ala., were high on marijuana, cocaine and beer when they decided to steal a car and drive to Pensacola and hold up the Freedom Federal Savings Bank.

A teller tripped an alarm. Pensacola police Officer Stephen Taylor, 26, and his partner, Larry Bailly, responded, stopping Jackson as he ran outside. Hill came up behind Taylor and shot him in the back from point-blank range, killing him. He also shot Taylor's partner, Officer Larry Bailly, who returned fire, hitting Hill several times. Jackson was shot by another officer as he tried to flee. All three survived.

On a Web site, Hill claimed he does not remember shooting the officers.

"I didn't see anyone get shot at any time," he wrote. "I'm pleased my friend is alive, and very sorry for the police officer who died and the one who was shot. I am not saying I am all innocent. I know I did a lot of things wrong that day which I am not proud of, and I wish I could begin October 19th, 1982 all over again. I would spend it with Allah with the love and knowledge I have today."

Florida's execution procedure is patterned after the process used by other states using lethal injection. Strapped to a gurney, inmates are given three drugs. The first deadens the pain, followed by injections to paralyze the body and the third to cause a fatal heart attack.

The state Supreme Court, by a 6-1 vote, rejected a request for a hearing on a 2005 study that concluded that a painkiller given condemned inmates as part of the execution cocktail may wear off before the inmate dies.

The court ruled earlier this month that the study by Dr. David A. Lubarsky, chairman of the department of anesthesiology at the University of Miami, was inconclusive.

Taylor's first cousin, Gary Mace, plans to watch the execution with Taylor's brother, Jack Taylor Jr., and Taylor's sister, Linda Knouse. Two other sisters will be unable to attend, Mace said.

"It is something we have to carry through for Steve," Mace said Monday. "I have forgiven Mr. Hill for what he had done, but God is the one who has to judge. I do feel compassion for his family. It is two families brought together by tragedy."

Taylor's partner, Bailly, through the Pensacola Police Department, refused to comment on the execution.

Cliff Jackson



Hill's accomplice, Jackson, was sentenced to life in prison.

If Hill is unable to get a last-minute stay, he would be the 61st inmate executed in Florida since 1976, when executions resumed after a 12-year moratorium, and the 257th since 1924, when the state took that duty from individual counties.

Hill's death is one of two scheduled this month, after the state executed only one inmate in 2005. Arthur D. Rutherford, who is scheduled to die on Jan. 31, also challenged the state's use of the execution drugs.

Rutherford, 56, killed 63-year-old Stella Salamon at her home in Santa Rosa County in 1985. Rutherford had done some repair work for the woman, whose body was found submerged in her bathtub, where she had been drowned or asphyxiated.

Hill survived a death warrant signed in 1989 by Gov. Bob Martinez. He is one of about three dozen inmates still alive after having previous warrants signed more than a decade ago.

Hill has not been a model prisoner in his years on death row, receiving disciplinary actions for possession of contraband, fighting, disobeying officers, possession of unauthorized beverages and defacing state property.

sixyearsleft wrote: What do you suggest?


My form of "help" would be to find somebody who really listens to you. So you wouldn't feel so "shot down" all the time. It could help. I dunno. By the way.................."six years left" til what? LOL

lady cop wrote:


SIGNIFICANT EVENTS IN

CLARENCE HILL CASE

Following are significant events in the case of Clarence Hill, condemned for the death of a Pensacola police officer: Oct. 19, 1982, Clarence Hill and Cliff Jackson drive to Pensacola from Mobile, Ala., and rob Freedom Federal Savings Bank. Police arrive and Hill shoots officers Stephen Taylor and Larry Bailly. Taylor dies and Bailly wounded. Hill shot five times but survives.

Nov. 2, 1982, Hill indicted on charge of first-degree murder, attempted first-degree murder, three counts of robbery with a firearm and one charge of possession of a firearm during commission of a felony.

April 29, 1983, jury finds Hill guilty on all charges.

April 29, 1983, jury recommends death by a vote of 10-2.

May 27, 1983, Hill sentenced to death on the first-degree murder conviction and life sentences on the other five counts.

Oct. 10, 1985, Florida Supreme Court overturns the death sentence and returns the case to trial court for a new sentencing hearing. Court ruled the trial court erred in refusing to excuse for cause two jurors because of their preconceived notions.

March 27, 1986, the new jury recommends death by a vote of 11-1.

April 2, 1986, Hill resentenced to death.

Sept. 17, 1987, Florida Supreme Court affirms conviction of first-degree murder and sentence of death.

April 4, 1988, U.S. Supreme Court denies appeal.

Nov. 9, 1989, Gov. Bob Martinez signs death warrant.

Jan. 18, 1990, State Circuit Court denies appeal.

Jan. 26, 1990, Florida Supreme Court denies appeals.

Jan. 28, 1990, U.S. District Court grants Hill a stay of execution.

Oct. 31, 1992, U.S. District Court partially grants petition for writ of habeus corpus.

Oct. 13, 1994, Florida Supreme Court affirms conviction and sentence of death.

Oct. 2, 1995, U.S. Supreme Court denies appeal.

Nov. 26, 1996, U.S. District Court denies appeal.

May 15, 1999, 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denies appeal.

Jan. 10, 2000, U.S. Supreme Court denies appeal.

May 26, 2004, State Circuit Court denies appeal.

May 13, 2005, Florida Supreme Court denies appeal.

Nov. 29, 2005, Gov. Jeb Bush signs death warrant, sets execution for Jan. 24, 2006.

Dec. 15, 2005, State Circuit Court denies appeal.

Jan. 10, 2006, Florida Supreme Court hears oral arguments in Hill's appeal.

Jan. 17, 2006, Florida Supreme Court denies appeal.

Jan. 19, 2006, Hill appeals to U.S. Supreme Court.

Jan. 24, 2006, Hill's execution scheduled for 6 p.m. at Florida State Prison. Source: Commission on Capital Cases









Man Who Killed Pensacola Officer In 1982 Set For Execution Tuesday





POSTED: 12:48 pm EST January 23, 2006



JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Condemned inmate Clarence Hill, scheduled to die Tuesday for the 1982 slaying of a Pensacola police officer during a bank holdup, pressed his fight Monday to stop his execution.

Hill lost an appeal in federal court in Tallahassee Saturday and had appeals pending with the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta and the U.S. Supreme Court, said Carolyn Snurkowski, a death appeals attorney for Attorney General Charlie Crist.

Hill's appeals have contended the three chemicals used in Florida's lethal injection method of execution is cruel and unusual punishment because it causes pain.

Snurkowski said the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled against inmates in four other states on the same grounds.

Hill, who is scheduled to die at Florida State Prison in Starke, also claimed the he should not be executed since he is mentally retarded. But that argument was rejected by the state Supreme Court, which noted that a mental evaluation of Hill showed he was mildly retarded and his IQ was 16 points higher than the standard of 70 or below.

Hill, 48, who has converted to Islam and taken the name Razzaq Muhammad, says on a Web site, www.SurvivingTheSystem.com, that he and his friend, Cliff Jackson, both of Mobile, Ala., were high on marijuana, cocaine and beer when they decided to steal a car and drive to Pensacola and hold up the Freedom Federal Savings Bank.

A teller tripped an alarm. Pensacola police Officer Stephen Taylor, 26, and his partner, Larry Bailly, responded, stopping Jackson as he ran outside. Hill came up behind Taylor and shot him in the back from point-blank range, killing him. He also shot Taylor's partner, Officer Larry Bailly, who returned fire, hitting Hill several times. Jackson was shot by another officer as he tried to flee. All three survived.

On a Web site, Hill claimed he does not remember shooting the officers.

"I didn't see anyone get shot at any time," he wrote. "I'm pleased my friend is alive, and very sorry for the police officer who died and the one who was shot. I am not saying I am all innocent. I know I did a lot of things wrong that day which I am not proud of, and I wish I could begin October 19th, 1982 all over again. I would spend it with Allah with the love and knowledge I have today."

Florida's execution procedure is patterned after the process used by other states using lethal injection. Strapped to a gurney, inmates are given three drugs. The first deadens the pain, followed by injections to paralyze the body and the third to cause a fatal heart attack.

The state Supreme Court, by a 6-1 vote, rejected a request for a hearing on a 2005 study that concluded that a painkiller given condemned inmates as part of the execution cocktail may wear off before the inmate dies.

The court ruled earlier this month that the study by Dr. David A. Lubarsky, chairman of the department of anesthesiology at the University of Miami, was inconclusive.

Taylor's first cousin, Gary Mace, plans to watch the execution with Taylor's brother, Jack Taylor Jr., and Taylor's sister, Linda Knouse. Two other sisters will be unable to attend, Mace said.

"It is something we have to carry through for Steve," Mace said Monday. "I have forgiven Mr. Hill for what he had done, but God is the one who has to judge. I do feel compassion for his family. It is two families brought together by tragedy."

Taylor's partner, Bailly, through the Pensacola Police Department, refused to comment on the execution.

Cliff Jackson



Hill's accomplice, Jackson, was sentenced to life in prison.

If Hill is unable to get a last-minute stay, he would be the 61st inmate executed in Florida since 1976, when executions resumed after a 12-year moratorium, and the 257th since 1924, when the state took that duty from individual counties.

Hill's death is one of two scheduled this month, after the state executed only one inmate in 2005. Arthur D. Rutherford, who is scheduled to die on Jan. 31, also challenged the state's use of the execution drugs.

Rutherford, 56, killed 63-year-old Stella Salamon at her home in Santa Rosa County in 1985. Rutherford had done some repair work for the woman, whose body was found submerged in her bathtub, where she had been drowned or asphyxiated.

Hill survived a death warrant signed in 1989 by Gov. Bob Martinez. He is one of about three dozen inmates still alive after having previous warrants signed more than a decade ago.

Hill has not been a model prisoner in his years on death row, receiving disciplinary actions for possession of contraband, fighting, disobeying officers, possession of unauthorized beverages and defacing state property.


I know why we have a judicial system, but for people like Hill who are found guilty by not only one jury, but two, it really makes me angry that he has been allowed to live this long. I agree that we need to be absolutely certain that those who are executed are indeed guilty, but he has definitely been afforded SEVERAL opportunities to plead his case - both in front of a jury and before the appellate courts. The facts are, though, that he has been convicted of murder and sentenced to death by a jury (twice) and his appeals to have his conviction overturned have been unsuccessful. When he shot and killed Officer Stephen Taylor, he in essence handed that officer a death sentence - Officer Taylor was never afforded multiple chances for appeals to spare his life - his death sentence was quick.

We all have choices and those choices have consequences. Unfortunately, Hill made his choice when he pulled the trigger of that gun and shot and killed that officer - he has exhausted all of his appeals - it is time for the consequences.

That was very well stated, Beagle. I couldn't agree with you more.

As for Slade1 and six years left, you guys need to do a couple of things.

1. Do some research here and you'll find out very clearly why BR has her views on guns.

2. Realize that BR is a very, very well-liked and well-respected poster. She's been here since this forum was founded, and although that should not mean that you automatically have to agree with her viewpoints, it does mean that you should show some respect for her.

Taking her avatar and modifying it with uzis and Russian hats was one of the most insulting things I've ever seen here.

Jives wrote: That was very well stated, Beagle. I couldn't agree with you more.




Thank you for the support Jives. I do appreciate it. I've not posted very often concerning such topics, but it's nice to know there are others out there who feel the same.

Accountable wrote: Thanks, Daffy. The better I get to know you, the more willing I am to struggle through your Liverpolian writing.


Yeah Daffy, At first I thought you might be disabled, (I have a lot of spelling errors too, but that's just my arthritus making it hard for me to type!) but I see a sharp mind there, so carry on!

Beagle wrote: Thank you for the support Jives. I do appreciate it. I've not posted very often concerning such topics, but it's nice to know there are others out there who feel the same.


lol. Yeah, you're just too nice to get into too emotional of a thread, eh? But that's OK, we understand you! Deep down, you're just a good person.

Now..after that compliment, let's make sure you get me straight. If you do delve into the morass that is politics and religion. You're sure to see me occasionally. I'll be the one bearing the standard of decency and rabidly defending the old values and courtesies. (Something I care very much about, since I am charged with teaching it to the next generation.)

If you take my side I'll shower you with praise, if you debate against me, I'll skewer you with every iota of processing power and logic in my brain.

But NEVER take anything I say personally. I am all about topics and ideals, I am not about atagonism against any person. When you see me in another thread, you might think I've suddenly gotten amnesia, since I'll act as if nothing I said in one thread followed me to another.

That's because it didn't.

No matter how heated or passionate I get in one topic, I'll still just be "Jives" in Bothwell's!;)

Jives wrote: lol. Yeah, you're just too nice to get into too emotional of a thread, eh? But that's OK, we understand you! Deep down, you're just a good person.

Now..after that compliment, let's make sure you get me straight. If you do delve into the morass that is politics and religion. You're sure to see me occasionally. I'll be the one bearing the standard of decency and rabidly defending the old values and courtesies. (Something I care very much about, since I am charged with teaching it to the next generation.)

If you take my side I'll shower you with praise, if you debate against me, I'll skewer you with every iota of processing power and logic in my brain.

But NEVER take anything I say personally. I am all about topics and ideals, I am not about atagonism against any person. When you see me in another thread, you might think I've suddenly gotten amnesia, since I'll act as if nothing I said in one thread followed me to another.

That's because it didn't.

No matter how heated or passionate I get in one topic, I'll still just be "Jives" in Bothwell's!;)


I can respect that Jives and thanks for the warning.....LOL

sixyearsleft wrote:

i feel very saddend by your comments plz explain yourself instead of judging my character jives, i mean no harm....:-3


Sure thing, Six, and don't get me wrong...I like you! But a picture is worth a thousand words. BR is known to be rather straight forward and brusk from time to time, but she's an old, old timer. That gives her points in my book. She even predates me. Sometimes I don't agree with her at all, but I always give her my respect.

I'm not going to stick up for her language,though, it was rough.

But altering someone's avatar crosses a serious line in my book. (and did I make a mistake? Wasn't that you and Slade posting her with an uzi and wearing a Russian hat?) It's like the difference between a swear word and a slap in the face.

It's just a semantic difference, but others will feel the same. The potential for abuse is huge here. There are pictures and avatars of lots of posters here on the garden. We all realize that posting your picture on the internet leaves you open to vicious attacks.

Use your imagination. How many different and terrible things could you do to a picture with a photoshop program? The sky's the limit!

So whether it was you or Slade that did that...knock it off.

Let's keep our debates to words, and leave pictures out of it.

It's just good "netiquette".

Oh, and I'm not mad, I just want to be clear about this.

lol. Ok then, apology accepted, I must have over-reacted again! I apologize as well! and all well that end's well, eh?:wah:

clarence hill's execution was stayed within mere moments of it being a fait accompli...the stay can be lifted at any time.



Supreme Court halts US execution







The US Supreme Court has blocked the execution of a Florida man to consider his appeal over the method used to carry out the punishment.

Clarence Hill was to be executed on Wednesday for the 1982 murder of a Pensacola police officer.

But the court wants to consider if the chemicals used in the execution cause pain - thus violating a Constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

Anti-death penalty campaigners say the move could delay other US executions.



Hill had been strapped to a gurney and intra-venous lines were running into his arms late on Tuesday night, his lawyer said, when Justice Anthony Kennedy issued a temporary stay.

Yes. Lord knows we don't want to cause the poor defenseless murderer pain. :-2