Do you believe in GOD?

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:17 pm

soulja1906 wrote: ... to feel hurt by religion means we must have some lack of understanding of religion? thats not true. what God asks of us is not religion, it is relationship. you can keep religion, i'll have no part in it.

Everyone has a religion- because religion is relationship. Even atheism is a kind of religion. The "R" word is merely unfashionable. It's it's even become popular among Christians to be "against religion," or to say something goofy like, "I'm spiritual, but not religious." A person's religion permiates every aspect of their life. It is their primary relationship. The quality of a person's actions reveals who their primary relationship is with.

Some particular religion has hurt or offended you. Would you mind being a bit more specific? "Christianity," is a very big, mixed bag of people groups and attitudes, and you may be painting with a broader brush than you intended.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:24 pm

:-4 telaquapacky wrote: ....... Godliness is revealed in those who are taking action to make the world a better place- even against all odds........

Very nice to read these words. I will like to use these words as a quote in my other messages on other discussion forums. With your permission of course. :-4

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:41 pm

soulja1906 wrote: suresh, ive got to agree with the guy who has been posting (telaquapacky). you do have a christ-like spirit. i feel a spiritual kinship with you and dont even know you..........

Thanks for your nice words. I will pray for you and telaquapacky.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:43 pm

To discuss the question whether or not one believes in God requires that we define the words "believe" and "God."

Let's those of us who are writing on this thread take a turn sharing what we mean by "believe" and "God."

To me, "believe" in the context of God, means:

1. To have a clear definition of who and what God is.

2. To have a clear communication from God so that one feels they understand exactly what God is saying.

3. To agree with what God is saying, and act in harmony and agreement, because of love for God and desire to please Him and to benefit from His wisdom.

4. To be able to explain to others how they received this communication.

5. To trust God enough that when disappointment or grievous trials come, you continue to love and agree with Him, you don't blame Him for unhappy things that happen to you, and you continue to hope in Him for the eventual solution to all your problems and trust Him to continue meeting your present needs.

To me, "God" means,

1. Creator: The Creator of the universe. This makes Him limitless in power, because the universe is limitless. He is the creator of every one of us, and gave us life. He did not make the universe out of pre-existing material. He created time, space, matter, energy and life out of nothing.

2. Savior: The Savior of mankind. The only One through Whose power, a human being can behave properly in love and selflessness. He is eternal, we are temporary, and do not have eternal life in and of ourselves. God is the only One who can confer eternal life to a human being.

3. Lord: The King of the Universe. The only one with the authority to absolutely define moral law. The only one with the wisdom to always judge rightly.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:44 am

soulja1906 wrote: religion is not relationship. religion is following rules. now, following rules may be a reflection of a relationship with God, but it could also be that the individual just follows rules but their heart is far from God.

Religion, relationship, rules are all words created by people. Different people understand them in different ways, and everybody claims that his religion, his relationship and his rules are best. But does it make any difference as long as people love each other. The only rule God has made is that all should love all, as loving those created by Him is in reality loving Him. God has many names and Love is one such name.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:53 am

telaquapacky wrote: To discuss the question whether or not one believes in God requires that we define the words "believe" and "God." Let's those of us who are writing on this thread take a turn sharing what we mean by "believe" and "God.".......

Believe - I believe that I am His image like every other living being is.

God - He is the reality, the cause of the image.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:56 am

soulja1906 wrote: religion is not relationship. religion is following rules. now, following rules maybe be a reflection of a relationship with God, but it could also be that the individual just follows rules but their heart is far from God.

I feel the same way you do, soulja. I guess my last post sounded rather mechanical and religious. On one level I am a precision thinking and expressing type and I can come across as yucky, mechanical and religious.

Suresh, I'm glad you liked the quote about godliness making the world a better place. When we are of the same mind the words belong to both of us.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:42 pm

soulja1906 wrote: This conversation is making me weary. its not supposed to be this complicated. either we're all misunderstanding each other, we just have different beliefs, or we're all just argumentative intellectuals who like getting the last word in. in whatever case, im through.

No dear Soulja, please don't think like that and don't say that you are through. I do not see this discussion as arguments being put to score over others. I consider this discussion on FG as an opportunity to remember God and pray through posting and sharing of our views with other people. Let me explain this.

There are many ways to reach God. Different people try different ways according to their faith. There were times when people will leave their families and go to forest to seek God. In India they will go to Himalayas and sit in caves and will meditate till they attain divine knowledge to reach God. But now when materialism has overpowered our daily life it is becoming increasingly difficult to find time to meditate and pray to God. Hindus believe that in present situation it is not necessary to leave this world and go to forest. People can continue living with the family and do their duties. Only by doing Satsang we can reach God.

Satsang means 'Being With God'. It may be for a longer time or for a very short duration. People go to churh, it is Satsang. People listen to religious discourses, it is Satsang. People read others' views about God and their experiences, it is Satsang. People write their views about God and their experiences, it is Satsang. So when you visit FG and read & write about God it is Satsang. For that duration you are with God.

Now let us look at it from another angle. We live in this world and interact with other people. All the time we are engaged in one or the other act, which may be good or bad. Good acts take us to God. Bad acts take us away from God. For the time we are busy in Satsang at FG we are prevented from indulging in bad acts. Is this not great?

Daily you sit on your PC, visit FG, read and write about God. It is your daily prayer. It may be for few minutes but during that period you are with God. Why do you want to miss this opportunity?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:07 pm

According to James in 1:27 "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for the orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep onself unstained by the world".

We should keep in mind that "unstained by the world" does not mean that we shouldn't enjoy God"s creation. I really means that we should not participate in the evil afoot.

The Real essence of Christianity is not what we believe, it is not doctrine or dogma, it is not about rules. It is about a transforming relationship with the living risen Christ: about a relationship.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:35 pm

Ted wrote:

The Real essence of Christianity is not what we believe, it is not doctrine or dogma, it is not about rules. It is about a transforming relationship with the living risen Christ: about a relationship.

Shalom

Ted :-6
I agree. It is about relationship. I had a relationship with my 14 year old Springer Spaniel before she died and I have a relationship with my wife of 34 years. I also have a relationship with my children, my parents and my friends. There are also relationships I would rather not have, like my relationship with the IRS.

Relationships that are worth anything produce fruit. I took care of my Springer Spaniel and she guarded our home and welcomed us with enthusiasm when we returned. My relationship with my wife has produced children and many other good things. My relationship with my Lord must produce something to be a relationship of any value.

What my relationship with my Lord produces is works. My works are either good or bad. I know if they are good or bad by comparing them to the Law He has written on my heart and in His word. His Spirit teaches me by making me sensitive to the written and indwelling word.

I think that too often, people see the law as a bad thing and they see works as an attempt to attain salvation. Salvation comes first, then comes a relationship that produces obedience and obedience produces fruit (works). I say our relationship with the Lord produces obedience because in our relationship with Him we come to recognize that His is Lord (Adonai).

Shabbat Shalom

vampress.rozz · Post by **vampress.rozz** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:30 pm

I believe there is a lot of unexplained good in the world but i dont believe this is from any one being. There are good energies and bad energies in the world. I hold dear my own rules that many religions would claim are theirs. Here are some of them

I believe we should all respect others religions. To disrespect a persons religion is to disrespect a large aspect of that person.

Obviously there are things that are morally wrong such as theft, adultery and murder.

I try to treat others the way that I would like them to treat me ( although i find this tactic does not always work ) Even when faced with those that do not treat me so well I try my best to continue with what I know is right.

So a person that tries her best to be kind to other men women and children but does not speak to god. Am I to be condemned with the scum of society? Only upon my death will i know for sure I guess.

Recently I have been looking into all sorts of religions and have found a great deal I like in all of them. but along with that must be the darker side to religion, that leads to the hatred of other religions. I quote the film Oh God!,"you cant have a front without a back" In the film George burns used this phrase to describe why god lets bad things happen. I stand with no religion as to stand with one is to appear against all others.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:42 am

Ted wrote: ...............We should keep in mind that "unstained by the world" does not mean that we shouldn't enjoy God"s creation. It really means that we should not participate in the evil afoot.............

You are absolutely right.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:57 am

vampress.rozz wrote: ........I believe we should all respect others religions.......

You are absolutely right. All religions preach to love. How then one can disrespect other religions?

Obviously there are things that are morally wrong such as theft, adultery and murder. I try to treat others the way that I would like them to treat me.....Even when faced with those that do not treat me so well I try my best to continue with what I know is right.

It is the positive attitude. None can differ with you on this.

So a person that tries her best to be kind to other men, women and children but does not speak to god. Am I to be condemned with the scum of society? Only upon my death will i know for sure I guess.

A person who is kind to others in fact is speaking to God. How can such a person be condemned?

Recently I have been looking into all sorts of religions and have found a great deal I like in all of them, but along with that must be the darker side to religion, that leads to the hatred of other religions. I quote the film Oh God!,"you cant have a front without a back" In the film George burns used this phrase to describe why god lets bad things happen. I stand with no religion as to stand with one is to appear against all others.

There is no darker side to religion. It is our own darker side which prompts us to hate other religions. Hating other religions means that we have not understood our own religion. No religion allows its followers to hate. If it happens then we ourselves are responsible for that.

vampress.rozz · Post by **vampress.rozz** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:46 am

Suresh Gupta wrote:

There is no darker side to religion. It is our own darker side which prompts us to hate other religions. Hating other religions means that we have not understood our own religion. No religion allows its followers to hate. If it happens then we ourselves are responsible for that.

Thank you for the explanation. I understand.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:13 pm

At this point, I wonder if GOD believes in us.

God doesn't require belief. It is, by any name or practice, all the same thing of which we are a part. I think to not believe in God is like a toenail not believing in the foot or the human upon which it grows. But if the toenail refuses to believe, the human doesn't cease to exist.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:30 pm

koan wrote: At this point, I wonder if GOD believes in us.

God doesn't require belief. It is, by any name or practice, all the same thing of which we are a part. I think to not believe in God is like a toenail not believing in the foot or the human upon which it grows. But if the toenail refuses to believe, the human doesn't cease to exist.

I have started a new thread "How God perceives us?" but the response has not been very encouraging. You may like to visit and see few messages under this thread.

In your last para you have given a very good explanation on the belief of human being in God. But God does really want that human beings come to Him, and for that one has to first believe in Him. They are afterall His image and till what time the image can remain away from the reality.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:22 am

[QUOTE=Paula]this type of chat is nonsense to me, this is how trouble starts, do you believe or not? and so what - end of story, to pick apart something is ridiculous, too much time on the hands...bye, bye................. :-5 :rolleyes:

I can see what you mean (trouble) here. In Ireland, the RCs hates the Protestants because they did not go to mass,and believe in the RC Church. And it was the same on the Protestant side. The Green & Orange wars is still with us. When one speaks about the Church in Ireland, they really mean the Roman Catholic Church. They don't see the Church as us the People, but apolitical Church.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:59 am

I can see what you mean (trouble) here. In Ireland, the RCs hates the Protestants because they did not go to mass,and believe in the RC Church. And it was the same on the Protestant side. The Green & Orange wars is still with us. When one speaks about the Church in Ireland, they really mean the Roman Catholic Church. They don't see the Church as us the People, but apolitical Church.

Then you get the presbytarian, then the free church then the wee frees- now they are really godly folk talking to a catholic can get you excommunicated, and in to this come the mormons who occasionally get together with the pentecostal baptists for a knees up but you can see them wndering what they have got themselves in to running a church in scotland. The orange lodge have their marches and the catholics and protestants decide to share a school but the catholics want to have seperate entrances just in case going through the same door is a corrupting influence then these idiots have the unmitigated temerity to lecture on the breakdown of the moral fabric of society. Basically they all agree a secular society is bad but not as bad as one where the others are dominant and they wonder why so few take them seriously any more.

As JC said to god It was your idea to give them free will-no hang on it's the three in one-the holy trinity, maybe I will go along to the unitarian chapel to find out.

Sectarianism is amazing, the most likeable person can go from decent human being to violent bigot faster than you can say bless you, all in the lord's name.

Actuually joking aside one of the points about the protestant revolution was so you could read the bible for yourself and not depend on a priest to tell you what to do, in oher words find your own way to god yet when you look at some of the evangelical churches they all seem to need someone to tell them what to believe and how to behave. So much for finding your own way to god.

A plague on all their houses.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:29 am

gmc wrote: Then you get the presbytarian, then the free church then the wee frees- now they are really godly folk talking to a catholic can get you excommunicated, and in to this come the mormons who occasionally get together with the pentecostal baptists for a knees up but you can see them wndering what they have got themselves in to running a church in scotland. The orange lodge have their marches and the catholics and protestants decide to share a school but the catholics want to have seperate entrances just in case going through the same door is a corrupting influence then these idiots have the unmitigated temerity to lecture on the breakdown of the moral fabric of society. Basically they all agree a secular society is bad but not as bad as one where the others are dominant and they wonder why so few take them seriously any more.

As JC said to god It was your idea to give them free will-no hang on it's the three in one-the holy trinity, maybe I will go along to the unitarian chapel to find out.

Sectarianism is amazing, the most likeable person can go from decent human being to violent bigot faster than you can say bless you, all in the lord's name.

Actuually joking aside one of the points about the protestant revolution was so you could read the bible for yourself and not depend on a priest to tell you what to do, in oher words find your own way to god yet when you look at some of the evangelical churches they all seem to need someone to tell them what to believe and how to behave. So much for finding your own way to god.

A plague on all their houses.
True.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:18 am

Now now, Mercutio, calm down. LOL.

I don't believe in god, which is a fair deal since god doesn't believe in me either.

That was irony, for those who may now be offended.

The thing is, who cares? If it was somehow proven that there is no god, would it change what you think is right and good? Would you act differently? If so, then there are deeper issues at work here other than faith.

And the same question again - if it was somehow proven there is a god, does it change who you are? Would you suddenly be scrambling to find the "right" or "true" church?

If religion can elevate and enlighten the souls and minds of people, then it is good.

Anything less than that is merely one more form of hypocrisy used to further selfish aims (greed, ambition, prejudice, power). It's just that religion usually dresses better.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

vanpress :-6

A re-reading of Matt 25:31ff will confirm what you have been saying. There are many other quotations in the Bible that will also support your position. That is why I refer to myself as a Christian Pluralist. There should be no doubt among the more fundamentalist/literalists about my own devotion and transforming relationship with the living risen Christ. That is what it is all about a relationship with God. A transforming relationship.

Shalom

Ted

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:49 pm

A Karenina wrote: .........I don't believe in god, which is a fair deal since god doesn't believe in me either. That was irony, for those who may now be offended.

I am not offended and why should I! It is between you and God.

The thing is, who cares? If it was somehow proven that there is no god, would it change what you think is right and good? Would you act differently? If so, then there are deeper issues at work here other than faith.

And the same question again - if it was somehow proven there is a god, does it change who you are? Would you suddenly be scrambling to find the "right" or "true" church?

Caring or not caring is again your personal matter. However I would like to answer your other points. You don't believe in God. You are living a life. But suppose you start believing in Him then believe me your life will change. What form it will take only time will tell but it will be for good only.

If religion can elevate and enlighten the souls and minds of people, then it is good. Anything less than that is merely one more form of hypocrisy used to further selfish aims (greed, ambition, prejudice, power). It's just that religion usually dresses better.

It does not work on conditions. You can not put the ball in the other court. How you interpret teachings of any religion and follow them is up to you. The responsibility is only yours. Many people claim that they follow their religion faithfully but indulge in violance against others.

Believing in God or not believing is purely a personal matter. One can however seek advice if one desires and for this purpose one can read religious books or find a teacher.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:40 am

Suresh,

You alway's hit it *****right. :-6

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:08 am

Suresh Gupta wrote: Caring or not caring is again your personal matter. However I would like to answer your other points. You don't believe in God. You are living a life. But suppose you start believing in Him then believe me your life will change. What form it will take only time will tell but it will be for good only. I neither believe nor disbelieve in god. I was raised to believe in god, but then I grew up and got sick of being told what to think, and of hearing people debate endlessly about what a bunch of wise dead men meant. I much prefer to think for myself, to ask questions freely, and to search for my own answers.

I personally do not find religion to be freeing or enlightening. But I have no issue with those who find good in it. I notice they often do have an issue with me, however. I adore irony!

Suresh Gupta wrote: It does not work on conditions. You can not put the ball in the other court. How you interpret teachings of any religion and follow them is up to you. The responsibility is only yours. Many people claim that they follow their religion faithfully but indulge in violance against others. With all due respect, when a large segment of my country decides to put their religious teachings into laws that control/affect me, then it becomes conditional. Don't you think so? It means I didn't put my ball into their court, but clearly they have slammed theirs into mine.

Suresh Gupta wrote: Believing in God or not believing is purely a personal matter. One can however seek advice if one desires and for this purpose one can read religious books or find a teacher.I'm sure you offered this with the best of intentions. I've read the bible several times. I've had to be Presbyterian, Methodist (not much difference, it's true), Mormon, and Jewish. I grew up on sermons from southern preachers on why we white folk had the god-given right to abuse the black folk etc.

I don't need a religious teacher, I've had enough of them already. They make the world too small to fit comfortably with my personality.

I wasn't asking about myself in my post. I was asking about everyone else. Would it make one bit of difference as far as your values if there was no god? Would it change your life in any way?

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:54 am

A Karenina wrote: I neither believe nor disbelieve in god....

...I grew up on sermons from southern preachers on why we white folk had the god-given right to abuse the black folk etc.

...Would it make one bit of difference as far as your values if there was no god? Would it change your life in any way?There seems to be a common theme among many Forumgardeners about being lied to about God, and then as a result rejecting the lied-about God along with the liar. We live in a world awash in lies about God. I don't believe that God expects us to wade through all this and figure it out for ourselves. But those who have become disappointed with God don't know where to look for truth about God, don't trust anyone, and have in many cases given up looking altogether.

I am not in the belief in which I was raised. I am the only one in my family in this faith. I wasn't even looking myself, but God spoke to me directly through dreams, visions, and uncanny coincidences, and finally, through His Word, when I was in the state of mind to accept and comprehend it. He led me to a place where the truth was opened up to me. If there had been no God, or if I had never gave Him permission to "intrude" into my life, my philosophies would be whatever pleased my tastes and ambitions.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:22 am

I am not in the belief in which I was raised. I am the only one in my family in this faith. I wasn't even looking myself, but God spoke to me directly through dreams, visions, and uncanny coincidences, and finally, through His Word, when I was in the state of mind to accept and comprehend it. He led me to a place where the truth was opened up to me. If there had been no God, or if I had never gave Him permission to "intrude" into my life, my philosophies would be whatever pleased my tastes and ambitions.

I started another thread called "what has changed your life?". I would love to hear about these dreams, visions and uncanny coincidences!

Don't you think that if God cared about the name we used or the way we believe, or don't believe, that God would come to everyone with these visions and "interruptions". Most certainly God would have that power and would want to save us all if it was that important!!!!!

Why then do people come away from these touched by God moments with so many different ideas. If somebody told you to believe just because they had this experience do you think you would have changed so drastically?

KittylovingBlond · Post by **KittylovingBlond** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:31 pm

I like a lot of what people are saying, and respect the manner in which the responses are given. Such a touchy subject is hard to talk about amongst people of different race, culture, ethnicity, etc. and I'm impressed that we are able to overcome this sensitivity.

I grew up with the Christian values and went to church on a fairly regular basis. My grandparents are very religious, but my parents do not go to church now. The Christian values that I was brought up with in no way signify any particular religion- but instead the way in which humans should treat other humans. I don't think any religion is "right" or "wrong" in any sense, and I grow frustrated with people who advocate their own religion as "right" or the "best" while criticizing the others. Spirituality seems to be more of a personal choice than a unified consensus...you can't force people to believe in something, especially when there's little to no evidence whatsoever.

I respect all religions, and I think each person should decide for themselves what they believe. Church and state need to separate for good, will this ever happen? Not in the next four years it won't.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:38 pm

A Karenina wrote: I neither believe nor disbelieve in god. I was raised to believe in god, but then I grew up and got sick of being told what to think, and of hearing people debate endlessly about what a bunch of wise dead men meant. I much prefer to think for myself, to ask questions freely, and to search for my own answers.

I personally do not find religion to be freeing or enlightening. But I have no issue with those who find good in it. I notice they often do have an issue with me, however. I adore irony!

With all due respect, when a large segment of my country decides to put their religious teachings into laws that control/affect me, then it becomes conditional. Don't you think so? It means I didn't put my ball into their court, but clearly they have slammed theirs into mine.

I'm sure you offered this with the best of intentions. I've read the bible several times. I've had to be Presbyterian, Methodist (not much difference, it's true), Mormon, and Jewish. I grew up on sermons from southern preachers on why we white folk had the god-given right to abuse the black folk etc.

I don't need a religious teacher, I've had enough of them already. They make the world too small to fit comfortably with my personality.

I wasn't asking about myself in my post. I was asking about everyone else. Would it make one bit of difference as far as your values if there was no god? Would it change your life in any way?

I will not like to burden you any further with whether one should believe or not believe in God. I will like to share with you what I think about all this and what I have been practicing throughout my life.

I believe in God. I believe that I am His image. As per His wish I have been separated from Him. My efforts in this life should be focussed only to reach Him and unite with Him. For this I should love all that He has created, as if I hate anyone it will be hating Him only. It is only love which will take me to Him.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:35 am

IdeaSeeker wrote: God is just an imagination of human beings. There are different versions of God in the world,with different created stories about God. Christianity,Musilm,etc. Different religion reflects diffirent way of how human beings images God.

Actually there exist some natural laws in the universe. Some of them are understood by human beings currently, some of them not, maybe never and totally beyond our understanding. How we are created, born, is just like how you make a plane take off. The forces behind them are just some sort of natural laws.

For those natural laws which are beyond our understanding, some people call them supernature. For those who belive in God, those natural laws become God.

All natural laws treat every thing fairly. In their eyes, there is no such things as Good and Evil. They are fairest judges in the universe. You can't get anything from them by praying and in the same time you don't get any punishment by not praying. They are just some sort of neutral natural forces which are beyond our understanding.

When human beings believe in God, they add a lot of human natures to those natural forces, making them behave like a human being, but with unthinkable power. Actually this kind of creation just reflect human's wish. We wish that there exist such a powerful God who can protect us and fight against Evil. This kind of wish leads to the creation of different versions of God.

In my opinion, to prove whether God exist or not makes no sense. When the idea of God makes a person feel good,secure, then God has value. After all, religion is not science.It can only be believed,but can not be proved in scientific way.

Sounds like Santa.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:39 am

soulja1906 wrote: i agree

I also agree,

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:41 am

Suresh Gupta wrote: I will not like to burden you any further with whether one should believe or not believe in God. I will like to share with you what I think about all this and what I have been practicing throughout my life.

I believe in God. I believe that I am His image. As per His wish I have been separated from Him. My efforts in this life should be focussed only to reach Him and unite with Him. For this I should love all that He has created, as if I hate anyone it will be hating Him only. It is only love which will take me to Him.

Nice one.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:27 am

Ruewen wrote: I believe in having faith... no matter if you worship a rock and call it a deity--to each his own. God as a noun? no, more of a verb.

Nice thought. Will you please elaborate on God not a noun more of a verb?

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:50 am

Colinc wrote: A noun would imply an idol or something apart ..whereas a verb means God is a way of life....a very nice distinction if i am reading this right.

Also if God is a verb then he is unique to each one of us .??

Noun will not necessarily mean an idol. God is not a way of life. Way of life is the result of belief or no-belief in God. Not a correct distinction I am afraid.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:21 am

telaquapacky wrote: There seems to be a common theme among many Forumgardeners about being lied to about God, and then as a result rejecting the lied-about God along with the liar. We live in a world awash in lies about God. I don't believe that God expects us to wade through all this and figure it out for ourselves. But those who have become disappointed with God don't know where to look for truth about God, don't trust anyone, and have in many cases given up looking altogether.

If there had been no God, or if I had never gave Him permission to "intrude" into my life, my philosophies would be whatever pleased my tastes and ambitions.
For years, I've heard that I should forgive the people who've done terrible things using religion as their prop, and to never give up on god. Whatever that means...

There is a difference between being lied to about god and being lied to in the name of god.

We can expect that people will have their own interpretations of god, and will act accordingly in their own lives. That is natural and good.

However, there are many who feel that their religion is the only way; they have no problem imposing themselves on everyone else...and historically religion has much to answer for.

I'm not remotely disappointed in god. I find the beauty and wonder of life, nature, and human potentiality all around me. On my sappier days, it takes my breath away. Even on my worst days, it is still worth loving and working for.

I'm disappointed in humans, in the way we use fear, control, myths, and sacred things to make political points, or to mold the world the want we want it...like the world is play-doh or something...if you just squeeze hard enough it'll conform.

I'm confused by a species that produces Van Goghs and Hitlers. Still, I put my faith in the possibilities of more Van Goghs. (Does that makes sense?)

It's not a question of rejecting god or not. It's a conscious choice of how one chooses to live...

...and this isn't very clear, is it? Ok, I'll try again.

I see the religious heavily involved in politics. According to their faiths, they have decided that the entire country needs to follow their moral choices. Apparently the rest of us are too stupid or ungodlike to be allowed choices -

So they are actively pursuing:

*outlawing abortion

*outlawing certain types of medical research

*outlawing assisted suicide

*outlawing the teaching of evolution

*outlawing gay marriage

The answer for the religious is to deny everybody what they personally find appalling. Practicing their faith means imposing their faith on others. THAT is what I distrust, THAT is what I fight. I am not a sheep, and I don't choose to be shepherded by a self-appointed representative of god.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:33 am

Ruewen wrote: What i mean is --Its a reverance for the self as well as all that surrounds us- An inspiration for the soul. A light that educates and inspires.

Will you like to give a name to this inspiration for the soul, the light that educates and inspires?

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:12 am

This is the thread that never ends. It is a place where, regardless of the specifics of our beliefs, everyone is being challenged to look deeper into their understanding of their own faith. That is the point of debate and the beauty of it. Not to convert each other but to expand and define ourselves and our own concept. I hope it does never end. :-6

Will you like to give a name to this inspiration for the soul, the light that educates and inspires?

The name was "God", this was a description of God as a verb, remember?

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:12 pm

koan wrote: This is the thread that never ends. It is a place where, regardless of the specifics of our beliefs, everyone is being challenged to look deeper into their understanding of their own faith. That is the point of debate and the beauty of it. Not to convert each other but to expand and define ourselves and our own concept. I hope it does never end.

This is wonderful. The real purpose of any debate - "not to convert each other but to expand and define ourselves and our own concept". I would like to use it in my messages on other forums. I hope you don't mind.

The name was "God", this was a description of God as a verb, remember?

But 'inspiration', 'soul' and 'light' are all nouns. If we describe them as God then how God can be a verb?

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:54 am

Ruewen wrote: God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed. ~Saint Augustine

I think it would be a hard concept to grasp if you hold a preconceived ideal in your head of what these terms mean.

The soul can split the sky in two and let the face of God shine through. ~Edna St. Vincent Millay

Different preople have different experiences of God. It has been explained very clearly in Hinduism that God is one. Different people see Him in different forms, and based on their belief different people worship Him in different ways and reach Him through different paths. Everybody has a preconceived idea of God and formats his or her life as per that belief. Some people seek a teacher and follow his guidance. They believe that a good teacher will take them to God. Some Hindu saints have considered teacher at a higher level than even God. There is a poem - "Both Teacher and God are standing before me. Whose feet should I touch first? I will touch Teacher's feet first because he is the one who have taken me to God."

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:31 pm

Those who say they know,

do not know.

Those who say they do not know,

also don't know.

Therefore, be quiet and let your actions

speak for you.

They speak much louder than your words anyway.

--Zen cards

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:34 am

koan wrote: Those who say they know,

do not know.

Those who say they do not know,

also don't know.

Therefore, be quiet and let your actions

speak for you.

They speak much louder than your words anyway.

--Zen cards

Those who say they know and also those who say they do not know mean knowledge in a limited sense. Those who say they know all have reached the God. And still it is advisable not to talk about it. Do your act and let Him decide the result. It is right that your acts speak for you, even louder than your words.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:44 am

No, i do not believe in god, no.