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My response is not to vermin. And no clarification is necessary for me. Vermin always make themselves perfectly clear. My observations and statements are always for my fellow FG members who have proven themselves over the long haul to be sensitive, kind, caring, and moral human beings.

weeder;686324 wrote: My response is not to vermin. And no clarification is necessary for me. Vermin always make themselves perfectly clear. My observations and statements are always for my fellow FG members who have proven themselves over the long haul to be sensitive, kind, caring, and moral human beings.
Will 3 out of 4 work?:D

Okey Dokey Then......... Good Kids.:-6

Irmin;685542 wrote: When to have sex. Not to kill her own baby. She made the choice when she spread her legs.


No, I think you are mistaking women as humans who are not allowed to make choices dear.

Women like men have every right to make a choice for themselves regardless as to who it involves, whether it is a choice that benefits her and hers or doesnt benefit anyone.

A woman and a man for that matter have the ability and right to make whatever choices in life they please to make.

I'm new to the forum, when I saw this subject I had to reply. The subjest of abortion is a very, very sore subject for me. I am a woman who suffered through 13 years of infertility, which included a miscarriage. The whole idea of someone wanting to give up something that I have wanted so badly for so long is very hard for me.

As a Christian I always believed that life begins at conception but nothing convinced me of that more that when I was finally pregnant with my little boy. I was having some problems so they did a sonogram very early at 7 weeks and to my amazment his heart was beating, he was kicking his little legs and his arms were waving. It looked to me like he was already a living human being in their.

I'm happy to say I have a beautiful baby boy. He's my little miracle.

We had looked into adoption but it's really hard because their are so few babies available.

Hope6;782581 wrote: As a Christian I always believed that life begins at conception but nothing convinced me of that more that when I was finally pregnant with my little boy. I was having some problems so they did a sonogram very early at 7 weeks and to my amazment his heart was beating, he was kicking his little legs and his arms were waving. It looked to me like he was already a living human being in their.


I agree with you, I am a RN in a Neonatal ICU and some of these so called fetuses thrive.



As for choice: Who defends the baby's choice to survive? If I am the father who defends my right to my child? Choice was made....Only one ( Mary was chosen ).



Bobby

S.C.O.F

I personally believe that all women, including disabled women, have the right to make their own reproductive choices. All women have the right to choose abortion for whatever reason. No woman should be persuaded to either terminate, or carry a pregnancy to term, whatever her situation and whether or not the fetus shows signs of impairment. The decision of any woman to have an abortion for reasons of impairment is hers alone and should be respected.:-6

Hope6;782581 wrote: I'm new to the forum, when I saw this subject I had to reply. The subjest of abortion is a very, very sore subject for me. I am a woman who suffered through 13 years of infertility, which included a miscarriage. The whole idea of someone wanting to give up something that I have wanted so badly for so long is very hard for me. As a Christian I always believed that life begins at conception but nothing convinced me of that more that when I was finally pregnant with my little boy. I was having some problems so they did a sonogram very early at 7 weeks and to my amazment his heart was beating, he was kicking his little legs and his arms were waving. It looked to me like he was already a living human being in their.

I'm happy to say I have a beautiful baby boy. He's my little miracle.

We had looked into adoption but it's really hard because their are so few babies available.


So your view has little to do with your faith and much to do with your desire to have a child of your own? Some other woman should have had to carry her fetus to term so that you could have gotten what you wanted? There are plenty of babies out there. Folks looking to adopt are apparently exercising their right to choose, however!

Born in America, adopted abroad

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1027/p11s01-lifp.html

BHughesNC;782652 wrote: I agree with you, I am a RN in a Neonatal ICU and some of these so called fetuses thrive.



As for choice: Who defends the baby's choice to survive? If I am the father who defends my right to my child? Choice was made....Only one ( Mary was chosen ).



Bobby

S.C.O.F


I say go for it! If these 'so called fetuses' thrive, let's hand them off to the pro lifers amongst us to salvage. Your choice, your expense naturally.

rjwould;782694 wrote: You have very strong emotional reasoning for your beliefs, Hope, and I'm happy your dreams were realized....And I hope you understand that others have the right for their wishes to be realized as well....





Abortion is not pretty and I don't think anyone likes the idea or necessity of the procedure....but in some cases it is necessary...



*rj hears the distant sounds of drive-by accusers coming and wonders when they will arrive*
A very reasonable and balanced post, RJ. Haven't had your coffee yet? :p



Anyhoo, I'll repeat my stance. I'm strongly pro-choice and pro-responsibility. Adults make a choice to have consensual sex, and should accept & take responsibility for the consequences of that choice.

Knowing how unacceptable such a stance is in today's uber-permissive society, I look forward to the medical breakthrough that will allow a doctor to transplant a child from the uterus of a pregnant woman to the womb of a willing mother.

flopstock;782709 wrote: I say go for it! If these 'so called fetuses' thrive, let's hand them off to the pro lifers amongst us to salvage. Your choice, your expense naturally.
AGREED! :yh_clap

rjwould;782732 wrote: Sounds too si fi for me...I'm sure someone said that to Dr Jarvik.

flopstock;782709 wrote: I say go for it! If these 'so called fetuses' thrive, let's hand them off to the pro lifers amongst us to salvage. Your choice, your expense naturally.


I think thats a great idea. I always said I would have had a houseful of kids if I could I guess it wasn't meant to be but I'll take any baby anybody wants to give me.

Hope6;782770 wrote: I think thats a great idea. I always said I would have had a houseful of kids if I could I guess it wasn't meant to be but I'll take any baby anybody wants to give me.
Don't just say that unless you really, really mean it. There are far too many children languishing in the foster care system for you to be glib.

Accountable;782775 wrote: Don't just say that unless you really, really mean it. There are far too many children languishing in the foster care system for you to be glib.


I'm not being glib, I really do mean it!

Hope6;782798 wrote: I'm not being glib, I really do mean it!
As a foster kid myself, I thank you. :-6



Google results for How To Become a Foster Parent in Virginia

Scrat;782870 wrote: AC. A fetal transplant? I think that it would be easier to just do it in a lab, a full term incubator type thing.
Sure, but what of the woman who takes precautions and ends up pregnant anyway?



(leaving my first kneejerk reaction, I add)

Oh, I think I see. I missed the "full term" phrase. That would definitely be safer, I would think, and easier to achieve. Anything beyond that would only be for the adoptive mother's own experience of childbirth. This is how good ideas become great ones. Thanks Scrat.

fuzzy butt;783159 wrote: I understand your pain of infertitlity, but that would have to be the most selfish comment I've seen in a while.

You wanted a baby not a child, there are plenty of children out there.



And to be pro-life just so you can porn off another womans heartbreak just so you can have a happy family is quite sick. And Vulture like. And your post is a perfect example of not just men using womens' bodies for their own means but women as well.



With all due respect I would like to know that if you had adopted, would you go with the new model of adoption where the birth mother remains in the life of the infant and has accsess to it?
Pull in the fangs [gratuitous insult deleted by author], butt. Where do you get off spewing crap like that then tossing in an off-hand "with all due respect" line?

Accountable;783250 wrote: Pull in the fangs [gratuitous insult deleted by author], butt. Where do you get off spewing crap like that then tossing in an off-hand "with all due respect" line?


Well, now acct... with all due repect, I had similar thoughts when I read the post of Hope6.

I actually had one response typed in and deleted it, giving her the benefit of the doubt as a newbie. God knows I've written some crap that did not come out at all the way I really meant it...

maybe it's a girlie thing ACCT, but her post brought and immediate FU to my fingertips..

I understand that, but she made a nice recovery only one page later (one page back from here). I plan to follow up to see if it was just lip-service (finger-service?).

Jester;783266 wrote: Who represents the interests of the child?


as soon as a child is born, you can sweetie!:-6

fuzzy butt;783159 wrote: I understand your pain of infertitlity, but that would have to be the most selfish comment I've seen in a while.

You wanted a baby not a child, there are plenty of children out there.

And to be pro-life just so you can porn off another womans heartbreak just so you can have a happy family is quite sick. And Vulture like. And your post is a perfect example of not just men using womens' bodies for their own means but women as well.

With all due respect I would like to know that if you had adopted, would you go with the new model of adoption where the birth mother remains in the life of the infant and has accsess to it?


I'm not selfish at all, you don't understand what I was feeling. For someone who loves children as much as I do and being in an emotions state from our own infertility problems it was actually painful to me to think about all the little babies being killed. I could cry every time I even thought about it.

I'm not pro-life just to porn off another woman, I was pro-life long before we ever started to try to conceive, because I've always thought life begins at conception. I understand the turmoil a unwanted pregnancy can bring.

Jester;783270 wrote: But they arent getting born they are getting 'aborted', (killed), (culled from the herd), (murdered out of convenience).


if they aren't viable outside the womb, they aren't a child, IMO. if they are, you are more then welcome to take care of them at your own expense if you choose.

It's sad because a lot of women at abortion clinics don't think they can get help! when really they can. Am i a freak for standing outside abortion clinics offering these people help? It's not like i'm saying they're evil, It's just seriously there are people out there who want to adopt, some even pay for the mothers expenses while she is pregnant! Some of these girls who get abortion are freaking out and scared. So i don't think the women should have the right! honestly i don't.

Omni_Skittles;783347 wrote: It's sad because a lot of women at abortion clinics don't think they can get help! when really they can. Am i a freak for standing outside abortion clinics offering these people help? It's not like i'm saying they're evil, It's just seriously there are people out there who want to adopt, some even pay for the mothers expenses while she is pregnant! Some of these girls who get abortion are freaking out and scared. So i don't think the women should have the right! honestly i don't.


Personally, I find it disgusting. And I find it hypocritical. And probably a good deal of what those girls are freaking out and scared about are the freaks they are about to run a gauntlet on just to get to a legal medical procedure. So I don't think you should have the right to do it. honestly i don't.

Jester;783343 wrote: Floppy I love ya and I think very highly of you.

But.

In my opinion abortion is the action equivalent to genocide, the union of two humans is the beginning of life, and even before that both sides of that child are living, they contain in the life every component of DNA from previous generations of life on both sides of that one unique person. Once they are mixed, those two become one and life generates.

It doesnt even matter to me for what reason the woman wants to abort the child.

Its the governments basic responsiblity to protect the innocent, and our government fails to protect the children who are the victims of abortion.

When I was in my mothers womb, due to circumstances at the time the doctors told my mother to abort me immediately. I'm not gonna play its a wonderful life, but if I had not been born, everything I have done would not have happened.

Our greatest resources are our children, they are the source of the greatest impact on all society that can be made.

And our society kills them at more than a million a year. (1.37 million abortions in 2005.) And over 45 million since 1973. (2005 data)

If I had the resources to care for them I would. But that an excuse, because more than likely the ones that should have met thier responsibility would have once the child was born. And for those who coudlnt we could have adopted them out.

The issue isn't that there is no resources, the issue is that having a child is inconvienient for the woman, (and non existant man, in most cases).


Isn't it a glorious thing that your mother exercised her right to choose?

and btw, you're talking to someone who has been pro-choice all her life, found out at 41 when she was all done raising kids that she was pregnant again and opted to spend the rest of my life raising another... to me being pro choice means I can choose what is right for me. to me, emotionally, that was my child already...but that was my call to make, not yours or anyone else's.

and i've about had it to my eyeteeth with folks assuming they have a right to make that call for any woman... and btw, have you got any idea the way this single woman was lectured to(surprisingly never more then one attempt...)? by people(mostly men btw) who honest to GOD thought they were entitled to correct my morals having a kid out of wedlock at my age? the kind of example i was setting for kids like my teen-aged daughter? i say god damn every one of the holier then thou crowd that frowns down at the young mothers and don't let their daughters hang out with them anymore... knock that kinda crap off and right there is the potential to eliminate a LOT of procedures. I also say god damn all of the righteous folks out there unwilling to force contraceptive information and availability on teens... afraid they might appear to be 'condoning' something.. how about 'condoning' the need for FEWER abortions???

flopstock;783373 wrote: Personally, I find it disgusting. And I find it hypocritical. And probably a good deal of what those girls are freaking out and scared about are the freaks they are about to run a gauntlet on just to get to a legal medical procedure. So I don't think you should have the right to do it. honestly i don't.I don't entirely get what you are trying to say here...

I cant begin to imagine what kind of world we would live in now if EVERY child that has been aborted in the past wasnt. We would obviously have to include the morning after pill, Jeeez can you imagine how many unwanted kiddies their would be, poor suffering children who are not wanted MADE to be born because some think they have a right to be born, whether its in their best interest or not.

Im 100% for having the choice.

For the men reading this, its not just about having a baby, that child is your responsibility for LIFE. Never mind the changes to your mental state, physical state that having a baby can do to women, you then have another human being to care for, forever. Doesnt ever stop. You need to 100% know in your mind that is what your prepared to do. I love my kids with all my heart but sometimes I think jeeez, I never knew it would be so hard. I am married in a safe and stable loving marriage, we both work, have our own home and live relatively comfortably. I dread to think how hard it must be raising a child and not having even one of those things I mentioned.

So people have unprotected sex and get pregnant, until they work out another way of stopping unwanted pregnancies we will just have to keep on plugging protected sex and birth control we have in place but support the ones that feck up.

fuzzy butt;783411 wrote: Oh I'm seeing red ..........I'm not going to respond now because it's going to be a long long post .



I'm actually writing to the sun herald at the moment so I have no time for this bull****.



ACCt, get your bleep button ready. I'ts always the hypocrits isn't it? It's always the hypocrits!!!
You're calling me a hypocrit? Details, bitch.

Chezzie;783388 wrote: I cant begin to imagine what kind of world we would live in now if EVERY child that has been aborted in the past wasnt. We would obviously have to include the morning after pill, Jeeez can you imagine how many unwanted kiddies their would be, poor suffering children who are not wanted MADE to be born because some think they have a right to be born, whether its in their best interest or not.

Im 100% for having the choice.



For the men reading this, its not just about having a baby, that child is your responsibility for LIFE. Never mind the changes to your mental state, physical state that having a baby can do to women, you then have another human being to care for, forever. Doesnt ever stop. You need to 100% know in your mind that is what your prepared to do. I love my kids with all my heart but sometimes I think jeeez, I never knew it would be so hard. I am married in a safe and stable loving marriage, we both work, have our own home and live relatively comfortably. I dread to think how hard it must be raising a child and not having even one of those things I mentioned.



So people have unprotected sex and get pregnant, until they work out another way of stopping unwanted pregnancies we will just have to keep on plugging protected sex and birth control we have in place but support the ones that feck up.What about adoption? Death is better than adoption?

flopstock;783374 wrote: Isn't it a glorious thing that your mother exercised her right to choose?

and btw, you're talking to someone who has been pro-choice all her life, found out at 41 when she was all done raising kids that she was pregnant again and opted to spend the rest of my life raising another... to me being pro choice means I can choose what is right for me. to me, emotionally, that was my child already...but that was my call to make, not yours or anyone else's.

and i've about had it to my eyeteeth with folks assuming they have a right to make that call for any woman... and btw, have you got any idea the way this single woman was lectured to(surprisingly never more then one attempt...)? by people(mostly men btw) who honest to GOD thought they were entitled to correct my morals having a kid out of wedlock at my age? the kind of example i was setting for kids like my teen-aged daughter? i say god damn every one of the holier then thou crowd that frowns down at the young mothers and don't let their daughters hang out with them anymore... knock that kinda crap off and right there is the potential to eliminate a LOT of procedures. I also say god damn all of the righteous folks out there unwilling to force contraceptive information and availability on teens... afraid they might appear to be 'condoning' something.. how about 'condoning' the need for FEWER abortions???


I agree there are a lot of people out there that are like you described, but as one of those" righteous folks" let me say we are not all that way. I have never looked down on anyone , although I know many people who do. That is not the true Christian way but some people judge everything, they even turn there nose up at someone if they don't think they are dressed nice enough when they come to church! it's crazy. I think teaching kids about birth control would be a good idea. There wouldn't be as many babies to have to worry about. I have two close relatives who had unplanned pregnancies one was only 17 at the time. They both kept their babies and never regretted it.

by the way I've got you beat by a year, I had my baby at 42 :wah:

Accountable;783428 wrote: What about adoption? Death is better than adoption?


Acc mate, of course adoption would be the better choice but their would not be enough adopters/foster carers to accomodate each and every child not aborted. Childrens home in my opinion aren't great places for a child to be raised either. Why put all that guilt on a child of not being wanted etc..uneccessarily. As an unformed foetus the woman is sparing the child that at least.

I personally could not have an abortion unless it was a baby conceived through being attacked and raped by an unknown male. I am still 100% for women having their right to chose before the foetus is any more than just that, a foetus and not a baby.

I have lost a child and suffered depression because of it. Awful times but i still think you cant make people parents who dont wish to be, its not fair on the child or the persons involved, regardless of who is to blame for the unwanted pregnancy.

I just read this...........This would happen even more if Abortion wasnt legal. I dread to think how high the abortion rate really is.



Illegal abortions are still taking place in the UK, a BBC undercover investigation has discovered.

Abortion has been legal in Britain for 40 years - under certain conditions a woman can terminate a pregnancy up to 24 weeks.

But the BBC has discovered pills for getting rid of unwanted pregnancies are readily available on the black market.

The BBC Radio 5 Live Report followed up on internet chat room messages left by women asking for abortion advice.

"Special herbs"

One online discussion centred on special Chinese herbs being sold in East London.

A BBC undercover reporter posing as an illegal immigrant visited several Chinese herbal shops, claiming she was six weeks' pregnant.

The third shop she went into, the Shanghai Herbal and Acupuncture Centre on Kingsland Road in east London, offered to help.

It was clear from the start that the staff - Dr Shen and Dr Wang - knew what they were doing was wrong.

"You come in this shop, you are lucky. Do you understand. My boss does't like me to do this treatment, my boss thinks it is a risk. So my boss doesn't know. You understand?" the reporter was told.

The staff sold her a herbal remedy for £40 - a mixture to drink three times a day to start a miscarriage.

Risky

A Manchester doctor told the programme that his team regularly came across patients with extensive bleeding after taking herbs.

The Chinese herbalists also advised the undercover reporter to buy another "special tablet" in case the herbs didn't work.

"If you see the bleeding, come out, that's fine, some people don't. I need to call another company, from China, deliver it to here, you understand?"

Our reporter paid £100 for this pill which turned out to be the abortion drug RU486 - illegal to sell without prescription.

Community health workers told us the issue of illegal abortion affects many women - from young British teenagers who do not trust their doctor to people who are here illegally and are frightened of being found out.

Another reason women seek out illegal terminations is cost.

Backstreet

Abortion is not free on the NHS for every woman. If a woman's home country does not have a reciprocal NHS agreement, or she is here illegally - then she faces bill of between £500 and £1,500.

In addition to herbs, the 5 Live Report found other ways of getting hold of abortion drugs, for instance misoprostol (Cytotec).

Our reporter met a Polish man called Robert in a West London café. She told him she was eight weeks pregnant and wanted an abortion.

As Robert handed over the pills he told her how he got them.

"They come either from Fiji islands or Turkey. The ones I have now are from Turkey, they are sent to Poland and then I have a courier who brings them from Poland to here".

He told our undercover reporter that this was not just a one-off transaction, boasting that he had smuggled the drug in many times before.

One side effect of taking abortion drugs is extensive bleeding, which if unsupervised can be dangerous.

But Robert was keen to point out that the drugs would be untraceable.

"If something happened and you had to go to hospital, the doctor will think that everything happened naturally."

The BBC reporter paid £30 for 14 tablets. This man had acted entirely illegally - not only had he peddled prescription drugs, he had broken the abortion law by aiding an abortion without a licence.

However, Robert hung up the phone when the Radio 5 Live called him to put to him the accusation.

Our investigation suggests illegal abortion activity may be widespread. A health worker in east London health worker told us she was routinely asked to get abortion drugs without prescription.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7108026.stm

Hope6;783478 wrote: ............

by the way I've got you beat by a year, I had my baby at 42 :wah:


most days we are the most grateful person alive and then other days we are sure we will be if only we can get a 15 minute nap, eh?:wah::wah:

Chezzie;783489 wrote: Acc mate, of course adoption would be the better choice but their would not be enough adopters/foster carers to accomodate each and every child not aborted. Childrens home in my opinion aren't great places for a child to be raised either. Why put all that guilt on a child of not being wanted etc..uneccessarily. As an unformed foetus the woman is sparing the child that at least.

I can't imagine any situation for a baby so terrible that even the potential would be worse than death. Some pretty great people came out of children's homes. You're conversing with one.



What guilt? See, adults do that. They project their own guilt onto the children. Children don't feel guilt unless adults teach them to feel guilt.

I'm adopted and i think i am stinking amazing! lol I think i will adopt when i get older too... okay upon reading the title you say Woman... i agree a woman should choose... but a teenage girl should not... they're to freaked out and full of wrong decisions...

As a human, father, nurse (in a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit) and a Christian I believe abortion is murder. There is DNA combination taking place at conception that makes that baby a human being. He/she start out just like you and I started. My mother was a poor,single woman, just out for a good time when I was concieved in 1948. In today's society I would have had about 0% chance of making it to breathe my first breath. I am grateful that she allowed me that opportunity, even though I know it would have been much easier for her to just get rid of me.



On a less philosophical note, I don't believe that my tax dollars should be used for an elective procedure that I am totally opposed to. If a woman makes that choice she should be totally responsible for it. To me it is kind of like seperation of church and state in reverse. Abortion is a moral issue not a medical issue.



You chose a home, a car, a job...but how can chosing to take a life ever be right?



"I will be praying for you like it or not"



Bobby

Is the morning after pill murder as well?

saffy;837475 wrote: Is the morning after pill murder as well?


BHughesNC;837450 wrote: [...] There is DNA combination taking place at conception that makes that baby a human being. [...]
Hi Saffy! *waves* Long time no see.



Bobby doesn't come here near often enough either. Sorry if I misinterpret your post, sir.



Based on what I pulled from his post, and relying on my poor memory that the morning after pill prevents the DNA from combining in the first place, I'd say no.



Sorry for butting in.