ForumGarden

It's threads like these that make me miss unemployment.

RedGlitter;831368 wrote: [...]

It makes me wonder about you people who don't think this is wrong.
I think that if you go back you will find that most are not supporting the couple as "right" but as free. I think what they are doing is sick, but I'm not about to call to stop them from it. Do you see the difference?



Bruv,

Lots of children die. Women have miscarriages every day. It's not necessarily a sign that the couple is wrong to procreate.

I guess this couple come under Genetic sexual attraction ..not sure about the baby...thats just sick .:yh_sick



Genetic sexual attraction (GSA) is sexual attraction between close relatives, such as brother and sister, who first meet as adults.[citation needed] The effect is also seen between cousins.[citation needed]

GSA may occur as a consequence of adoption, when the adopted children knowingly or unknowingly encounter biological relatives. Although this is a rare consequence of adoptive reunions, the large number of adoptive reunions in recent years means that a significant number of people are affected.[citation needed] It is generally highly distressing to both parties, as this sexual attraction is contrary to their socialized sexual and moral structures (the incest taboo).

When children are raised together in early childhood, this effect is reversed by a form of imprinting known as the Westermarck effect, which results in reduced sexual desire between the siblings; examples exist in Israeli kibbutzim and, formerly, in Chinese arranged marriages known as Shim-pua.

Contents [hide]

1 Contributing factors

2 In popular culture

2.1 Legend

2.2 Theatre

2.3 Books

2.4 Film

2.5 TV

2.6 Comics

3 In reality

4 See also

5 References

6 Further reading

7 External links





[edit] Contributing factors

Several factors may contribute to GSA. People commonly rank faces similar to their own as more attractive, trustworthy, etc. than average.[citation needed] Heredity produces substantial physical similarity between close relatives. However, Bereczkei (2004) attributes this in part to childhood imprinting on the opposite-sex parent. Shared interests and personality traits are commonly considered desirable in a partner. The heritability of these qualities is a matter of great debate; to whatever extent they are heritable, they will tend to cluster in close relatives. In cases of parent-child attraction, the parent may recognize traits of their sometime mate in the child. Such reunions typically produce complex emotions in all involved.



[edit] In popular culture

The numerous versions of this phenomenon testify to how it resonates.



[edit] Legend

The story of Oedipus in Greek mythology is perhaps the most famous example of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

In Greek mythology, one version of the story of Narcissus has the young man fall in love with his twin sister. The more common version has him pining for love of his own reflection. Both versions emphasise the dangerous attraction of the similar. It would be wise to remember that Narcissus became love-struck only after the introduction of Cupid's dart, a ruse concocted with the help of the nymph Echo, who could speak only what had been spoken to her. The plan was that Echo would present herself to Narcissus immediately after his being pierced by the dart, at which point he would regale her with his undying love with which she would ecstatically concur, repeating his words that were the expression of her own passion, thus fulfilling her heartfelt desire. The dart indeed found its mark, but instead of espying Echo, Narcissus' gaze fell upon his own reflection in a sylvan pool and he accordingly was smitten with himself, such that he could not leave his reflection and wasted away on the bank to the point of death when the Gods took pity on him and changed him into a flower, that to this day gazes at its own reflected image.

In the medieval legends of King Arthur, collected by Sir Thomas Malory under the title Le Morte d'Arthur and retold in the 20th century by T. H. White as The Once and Future King, King Arthur is seduced by his half-sister Morgause, who subsequently gives birth to Mordred. This is one of the key elements in Arthur's downfall.

In Wagner's opera Die Walküre, based on the Norse myth, twin brother and sister Siegmund and Sieglinde meet as adults and fall in love; Sieglinde later gives birth to a son, Siegfried. This tale influenced "The Blood of the Volsungs," a 1905 short story by Thomas Mann that concerns the relationship between a brother and sister.

In Finnish mythology, Kullervo unknowingly seduces a beggar-girl who is his sister. When the girl finds out Kullervo is her brother, she commits suicide.

[edit] Theatre

In Gotthold Ephraim Lessing's 18th century Nathan the Wise, Nathan's adopted daughter Rachel is rescued from a house fire by a passing knight templar. They immediately fall in love - only to find out that they are brother and sister. This is, however, revealed before their relationship develops significantly.

In John Ford's play 'Tis Pity She's a Whore a passionate sexual relationship develops between the siblings Giovanni and Annabella resulting in Annabella's pregnancy. The play concludes in a bloodbath of revenge and passion, and is considered one of the most controversial works in English literature.

[edit] Books

Vladimir Nabokov's novel Ada or Ardor: A Family Chronicle recounts the incestuous life-long romance of Van and his sister Ada, who initially think they are cousins.

In Arundhati Roy's Booker Prize winning novel The God of Small Things, Estha (male) and Rahel (female) are twins who are separated at a young age, then reunite as adults, when (pp 310-311) "...they broke the Love Laws. That lay down who should be loved."

In Jeffrey Eugenides' Pulitzer Prize winning novel Middlesex, a brother and sister move from Greece to the U.S. in the 1920s and start a family. Later in the novel their son marries his second cousin.

In J. R. R. Tolkien's The Children of Húrin the main character (Túrin) falls in love with his estranged sister (Nienor), who had been bewitched by a dragon (Glaurung) to forget her past. Neither recognizes the other due to early separation.

In Robert A. Heinlein's novel Time Enough for Love, a pair of twins who allegedly share no genetic material marry and have children, then have to be talked out of letting their children marry each other.

In J. V. Jones's trilogy The Book of Words, Jack, the boy of the prophecy, discovers that he was in love with his half-sister, also a bastard of the late king.

In V. C. Andrews's Dollanganger series, two children, Cathy and Christopher, end up being sexually attracted to each other and engage in sexual activity. This is due, in part, to their seclusion from the outside world. They, in turn, were the production of inbreeding.

In Cassandra Clare's novel City of Bones, main characters Clary and Jace are romantically attracted to each other. At the end of the book they are revealed to be full siblings.

In George R. R. Martin's epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire, fraternal twins Cersei and Jaime of House Lannister engage in a secret incestuous relationship for much of their lives.

In Patrick Augustus's ground-breaking novel about Black British men, Babyfather (1994), one of the marriages the narrative is working towards is put on hold when a character is told by his father that his fiancee is really his half-sister.

In Beryl Bainbridge's novel An Awfully Big Adventure, a man has a one-night stand with an underaged girl he later learns was his daughter.

In Caroline Graham's first novel in the Chief Inspector Barnaby series, The Killings at Badger's Drift, the motive for the murders is the desire of siblings Michael and Katherine Lacey to hide their incestuous relationship. This relationship is also portrayed in the first-season episode of Midsomer Murders of the same name as the novel.

In Donna Tartt's novel "The Secret History", fraternal twins Charles and Camilla are revealed to have been engaged in a long-time incestuous affair.

In Daniel Defoe's novel "Moll Flanders", the protagonist unwittingly marries her brother whom she had never met. Upon learning the truth, she becomes disgusted and distraught.

[edit] Film

The film Oldboy tells the story of a man who falls in love with a girl who turns out to be his daughter, in a trick played on him by an old rival, who was previously in love with his own sister.

In the film Code 46, William Geld falls in love with Maria Gonzalez who is a genetic clone of his biological mother.

In the movie The House of Yes, fraternal twins Marty (Josh Hamilton) and "Jackie O" (Parker Posey) engage in explicit incest, which started when they were pre-adolescents, though could probably be traced back even in infancy. According to their mother (Genevieve Bujold), "Jackie was holding Marty's penis when they came out of the womb..."

In the movie Blue Lagoon, two young children, cousins Richard and Emmeline Lestrange are the survivors of a shipwreck in the South Pacific. Both teens' bodies mature and develop, and they are physically attracted to each other. They have sexual intercourse and Emmeiline gets pregnant.

In Lone Star, the instant and deep attraction which Sam Deeds and Pilar Cruz feel towards each other is ultimately connected to the fact that they are unknowingly half-siblings. Despite this they decide to continue their relationship. This matter has large metaphorical significance with regards to the primary theme of the movie, race relations in the small town.

In the movie Back to the Future, the main character, Marty McFly, goes back in time and accidentally meets his mother when she is a teenager, who is very attracted to him until they kiss, at which point she compares it to kissing her brother.

In the original Star Wars movies, Luke Skywalker and his twin sister, Princess Leia, who meet as adults not knowing their connection, arguably experience a form of GSA, although primarily on Luke's part. In Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, they share a kiss, although Princess Leia did so for the sole purpose of infuriating Han Solo, to whom she was already clearly attracted, and long before she realized that she and Luke were siblings.

Say It Isn't So is a comedy film starring Chris Klein and Heather Graham about two young lovers who come to believe that they are actually siblings.

The Ballad of Jack and Rose is a 2005 drama film starring Daniel Day-Lewis and Camille Belle who share a father daughter kiss.

[edit] TV

A 2003 storyline in the BBC's flagship hospital drama Casualty involved GSA, when staff nurse Anna Paul (played by Zita Sattar) began a relationship with house officer Merlin Jameson (played by first Orlando Seale then Sebastian Dunn). After telling Anna that he was adopted, she encouraged his search for his birth parents, only to discover his mother was Anna's mother. This revelation caused both characters great suffering and virtually destroyed Anna's relationship with her/their mother, but her feelings had grown so strong for Merlin that she continued it, eventually getting pregnant. The baby was never born, however, as she was involved in a train crash at the start of the following series, and after first having both legs amputated, she eventually died of her injuries. The characters of Merlin and his/Anna's mother did not continue after her death.

In the episode of My Name Is Earl in which Joy's marriage to "crabman" is revealed to her parents, Joy's father explains that he is not a racist, but that he objected to Joy dating a black boy in high school because she was his half-sister.

In the House, M.D. episode "Fools for Love", House treats a married couple whose uncannily similar symptoms suggest shared exposure to an environmental factor, but they turn out to be half-siblings suffering from the same rare genetic disorder.

In the Futurama episode "Roswell That Ends Well", Fry has sex with his grandmother after the death of the man he presumed to be his grandfather, and becomes his own grandfather

In The Simpsons, in the episode "The Regina Monologues", Homer Simpson meets his half-sister Abbie- conceived during Grampa's time in Britain during the Second World War- for the first time and seems to display a sexual attraction to her, despite, or maybe because of, the fact that Abbie looks very much like a female version of himself.

In BBC mystery drama Jonathan Creek, the Christmas special "Black Snow" features a young man being manipulated into killing a famous actress he was in love with, Jonathan Creek later deducing that the man was actually the actress's long-lost son, given up for adoption years ago.

In an episode of That '70s Show, Eric finds himself attracted to his visiting cousin.

In an episode of Friends, Ross Geller becomes smitten with his and Monica's gorgeous blonde cousin. Thinking she is trying to send him signals, he tries to kiss her; she is revolted, and flees.

In Strangers With Candy Jeri Blank falls for a boy in her high school that she learns is the son she gave up when she was younger. Despite this revelation she still wants to get in his pants.

In an episode of Aliens in America titled "Purple Heart", the kids in school think Justin Tolchuck wants to sleep with his older sister because, to cheer her up after a very nasty breakup, he gives her a special school-sponsored Valentine that usually only couples exchange. After a particularly loud (and coupley-sounding) public argument the two make up and even dance a little together. One of the popular girls muses that perhaps the Tolchuck siblings "really are dating". Her friend then feels free to confess that she "hooked up" with her cousin recently. The other girl looks repulsed.

In an episode of King of the Hill Bill Dauterive begins dating a young single mother of two. Dale Gribble notes how similar the girl looks to his own son Joseph Gribble, erroneously thinking that she is his daughter, fathered by a sample of his sperm cultivated by aliens. Joseph, meanwhile, becomes smitten with the girl, unaware they are half-siblings.

In a brief storyline in Australian soap Neighbours, Serena Bishop fell in love with a young man named Luka Dokic, only to learn that he was her half-brother; their mother Lilijana had been told by her mother that he had been stillborn.

In Green Wing, Joanna Clore has sex with a son that she gave up for adoption several years ago, Guy Secretan, who both only find out the truth when Martin Dear (her other son) interrupts them with the news they are all related.

In Hollyoaks, in a 2007 storyline, popular character Rhys Ashworth began a relationship with Beth Clement, before realising they share the same father. Rhys continued to struggle with his feelings for Beth as she became a part of his family life, and they had sex again during Christmas. Some years earlier, character Kate Patrick met and fell in love with a young man who turned out to be her brother.

In the HBO series "Six Feet Under", main character Brenda Chenoweth and her younger brother Billy Chenoweth are often accused of having 'too close' a relationship. In an episode in season three, Billy kisses Brenda, Brenda immediately leaves and this leads to their one year estrangement. In the fifth season, after the death of her husband, Brenda then has dreams that she and Billy should marry and raise her two children together. She also dreams that they have sex.

In daytime soap All My Children, a mid-1970's storyline featured Erica Kane meeting and falling for a man named Mark Dalton. Erica liked him so much that she introduced him to her mother, Mona. Mona noticed a birthmark on his hand, and after they left, recalled that Erica's father had the same birthmark. Mona stopped them right before they had sex, and they learned they were brother and sister.

In daytime soap Young and the Restless, teenagers Mackenzie Browning and Billy Abbott met and fell in love amidst the backdrop of a long-running feud between his mother Jill and her grandmother Katherine. They broke up, only to reunite and marry in 2003. Around the time of their wedding, Jill and Katherine learned that they were mother and daughter. Jill raced to the church but was not in time to stop their wedding. She found out their hotel suite and barged in just before they were going to have sex. The devastated young couple parted ways.

In Dynasty siblings Adam and Fallon Carrington meet before knowing they are related and are attracted to and flirt with each other.

In the fifth season of F/X series Nip/Tuck, Matt McNamara's sudden, intense relationship with one of his father's patients is disrupted when it is revealed that she is his half-sister.

[edit] Comics

In The World of Krypton (vol. 2), John Byrne wrote of the planet Krypton's ancient past in which a culture of near-immortals thrived by storing sleeping clones of each citizen to harvest for replacement body parts as needed. One of Superman's ancestors was involved in a massive controversy when she broke the law by bringing one of her own clones to full sentience and attempting to get her unwitting son to marry it. This double taboo-breaking added was the trigger for a gathering civil war over clone rights which would eventually decimate the planet for generations.

In the manga Ayashi no Ceres (English title Ceres, Celestial Legend) by Yuu Watase, twins Aki Mikage and Aya Mikage share a somewhat incestuous relationship once their 16th birthday passes and they both awaken the personalities of their past lives (Ceres for Aya and Mikage for Aki). Aki, the aggressor, attempts to rape his twin at one point in the series while possessed with his family founder's spirit, Mikage.

In the manga Angel Sanctuary by Kaori Yuki, the main characters, Setsuna Mudo and Sara Mudo, both share romantic feelings for each other despite being brother and sister. Like in Ayashi no Ceres, their affections are manifestations of feelings remaining from their past lives.

[edit] In reality

The BBC reported in January 2008 a speech by British peer Lord Alton, which referenced a case in which a judge had annulled the marriage of an unnamed couple, who had discovered that they were twins separated at birth and adopted separately. "They met later in life and felt an inevitable attraction, and the judge had to deal with the consequences of the marriage that they entered into and all the issues of their separation."[1]. However, no corroborating evidence has been provided for the story, which bears many of the hallmarks of an urban legend.[2]

The Australian reported in April 2008 about a father and daughter who met for the first time as adults and within 2 weeks had sex; and that same couple was reported to had a daughter together by Hearldsun.com.au. [2] [3] This story was further reported on by 60 Minutes, with the two discussing there relationship publicly for the first time. [4]

This couple were featured in a telly program i watched a couple of weeks ago .





How we fell in love, by the brother and sister who grew up apart and met in their 20s

By HELEN WEATHERS - More by this author »



Last updated at 00:34am on 17th February 2008



Comments (12)

Perhaps it is because Danielle Heaney and Nick Cameron don't look in the least alike that they pass so easily for a pair of young lovers no different from any other.

She is a petite, delicate, blue-eyed blonde, while he is a strapping young man with auburn hair and soft brown eyes which never stray for long from her face.

Scroll down for more...



Forbidden love: Nick Cameron and his half-sister Danielle Heaney are hopelessly in love. A judge says if they have sex, they'll be jailed



Read more...

Tragedy of the children born with genetic defects because their parents are cousins



They hold hands, they kiss, they stroke each other's arms, they listen attentively to each other. They are totally besotted.



What makes this scene so disturbing, however, is the fact that Danielle and Nick are half brother and sister.



Incest remains one of society's last taboos, as this troubled young couple know only too well. Prison is the ever present threat to this forbidden union.



"I know that loving my brother in this way is wrong morally and legally, but it just feels right," says 22-year-old Danielle.



"The only way to explain it is to say that the day I met Nick, I felt I had finally met my soulmate. Everything clicked. I would marry him if I could."



Nick first met Danielle when she was 20 and immediately thought: 'Wow, she's attractive'

Nick, 28, adds: "My feelings are very confused. We are very deeply in love with each other, but sometimes I think 'she's my little sister. I shouldn't be feeling this way.'



"All I know is that for the first time in my life I feel I belong. I should feel ashamed of it, but I don't."



Danielle and Nick have different fathers but the same mother. They grew up apart after Nick was placed in foster care as a child, and only met as adults in August 2006.



At the meeting in their mother Susan's home in Glenrothes, Fife, they were both struck with an unexpected thunderbolt of recognition, physical attraction and almost instant longing.



Within three weeks they were lovers and Danielle's marriage to her 28-year-old husband was over.



He moved out of the marital home with their child and it is he who now looks after their four-year-old daughter.



As for their mother Susan, 48, she rues the day she invited her lost-long son back into the family hoping to make up for all the years she missed with him.



It was Susan who reported them to police after walking in on them making love in the autumn of 2006, and shouted in horror: "What you are doing is morally wrong."



She is barely on speaking terms with them now.



Earlier this month the pair were put on a year's probation by Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court after admitting incest, at an earlier court hearing.



Danielle says she and Nick 'clicked straight away'

They were warned that if they had sexual intercourse again they could face a jail sentence of up to two years.



After nine months enforced separation, which was part of their bail conditions, the pair celebrated their reunion with champagne and Nick was this week planning to move back into Danielle's flat in Glenrothes.



Surely they are playing with fire? Both insist they will not have sex again, but admit they are still infatuated with each other. Both still act like lovers rather than siblings.



They've even discussed moving to another country, such as France, where incest is not illegal so they can live together as partners - although they would not be allowed to marry.



They accept that, even if they were to remain lovers, they can never have children together because of the genetic risks to the child of inbreeding.



"Those nine months on bail when I couldn't see or speak to Danielle were sheer torture," says Nick, a croupier, who moved to Glasgow to live with an uncle after their arrest, "I went through a profound depression.



"It felt to me as if we'd only just found each other and here we were being separated again. We just want that closeness back. We don't want to be apart.



"We have an unbreakable bond. Of course, it will be hard living together and there will always be temptation, but we have decided that we can still love each other without having sex.



"I love Danielle and because of that I don't want to do anything which might put her in prison, and she feels the same way about me. The sexual expression of our feelings is only one part of the relationship."



Danielle, a former hairdresser, adds: "What we can't live without is the closeness and intimacy. We can still talk, we can still go for walks, we can still love each other.



"Legally we can still kiss, still hold hands, still carry on together, we just can't have intercourse."



Short of installing a CCTV camera in their home to ensure no law is broken again, we shall just have to take their word for it.



The pair say they plan to go to joint counselling to try to understand their intense and confusing feelings.



"Obviously there have to be boundaries, because incest is illegal in this country," says Nick, "but maybe, with counselling, we can move our relationship on to a more normal brother-sister one.



"That may not be what we want at the moment because we are in love, but perhaps those feelings will fizzle out and we will be able to keep the bond that we have within the proper boundaries."



While Danielle and Nick's story is undoubtedly shocking, it is not as uncommon as many of us might wish to think.



Genetic sexual attraction is a recognised psychological phenomenon, which sometimes affects siblings or blood relatives separated at birth, who then meet later as adults.



The term is believed to have first been coined in America in the 1980s by a woman called Barbara Gonyo, who wrote about the unexpected lust she felt for the adult son she'd given up for adoption 26 years earlier.



The relationship was never consummated because those feelings were never reciprocated and they eventually faded when her son married.



According to research, first published in the British Medical Journal in 1995, by Dr Maurice Greenberg and Professor Roland Littlewood, 50 per cent of people seeking post-adoption counselling "experienced strong sexual feelings in reunions" with their real family.



This can happen between siblings, mother/son and father/daughter and is believed to be the adult response to the absence of "bonding" in childhood.

The natural repulsion brothers and sisters often feel for each other as children is a safeguard against incest and those who miss out on that bonding, according to psychologists, can develop obsessive feelings for their sibling as an adult.



Those feelings may or may not become sexual, but those that do take that course challenge our notion of incest because there is no coercion or abuse between consenting adults.



Danielle and Nick believe that they too are victims of genetic sexual attraction and are only speaking now because they want to highlight an issue few people are prepared to talk publicly about.



Either that, or they are trying to find psychological excuses for behaviour that many would consider reprehensible.



They may not have been able to control their feelings but it was their choice to act on them, ignoring their responsibilities not only to each other, but their family.



"Our mother and my foster family would much prefer we kept quiet," says Nick, "but this isn't just about us. There are plenty of other people going through exactly the same emotions. There needs to be more understanding."

Nick was just a one-year-old when his parents' relationship broke up, and he has never had any contact with his biological father.



He was placed in foster care when his mother Susan found it impossible to cope on her own.



He had sporadic contact with his mother over the years, but only met Danielle - the product of Susan's next shortlived relationship - once when she was five years old and he was 11.



Nick says he was happy growing up with his foster family in Glasgow, and eventually went on to take a degree in music and drama.



"When my mother sent a message through my foster mum two years ago to say she wanted to meet me, I initially thought: 'What does she want?'," says Nick.



"I was curious more than anything, and agreed to go and stay with her for a couple of weeks. I think she had regrets about putting me in foster care and wanted to make amends.



"I remember it feeling very strange when she collected me from the bus station and gave me a cuddle, but when she took me home I had a real feeling of belonging.



"Danielle was waiting back at home - she was 20 then - and the first time I saw her I thought: 'Wow, she's attractive,' but then I pulled myself together telling myself 'That's your sister you are talking about'."



Danielle adds: "I was nervous about meeting Nick because although he was my brother, he was also a stranger, but when he walked in I gave him a cuddle because my mum had, too.



"We just clicked straight away. It's impossible to explain. I just felt drawn to him, as if he was the person I'd been waiting for all my life."



During those first two weeks, Danielle and Nick spent every spare second together and initially there was something childlike in their touchy-feely horseplay - except that they weren't children any more.



"I think Mum could see what was happening because we were flirting quite a lot," says Danielle.



"We just felt this need to keep hugging each other and mum would say: 'Will you put him down.'



"But at that stage nothing had happened between us and I really didn't think anything would - but then one thing led to another."



This despite Danielle being married and having a young child. In fact, many people will feel her betrayal of her husband as equally as unpalatable as their incestuous relationship.



Danielle, whose own father split up from Susan when she was a baby, married at 16 in her quest to create her own more stable family unit.



She was 18 when her daughter was born, but suffered post-natal depression and found it difficult to bond with her child.



Her marriage - her partner is a house husband - was under severe strain by the time her long-lost brother turned up.



Nick says: "I felt more guilty about the fact I was sleeping with a married woman than I was about sleeping with my half-sister.



"I kept saying to Danielle 'are you sure about this? Are we doing the right thing?' because she had a husband and a child.



"She told me her marriage was already in trouble when I came along, but that is the one thing I do regret. I didn't want to hurt anyone else, but it felt as if we just couldn't stop ourselves falling in love."



With relations with his mother increasingly fraught, because she was deeply suspicious of the blossoming closeness between her children, Danielle invited Nick to move in with her and her husband and child.



Still, she insists she has no regrets or real feelings of guilt. "No I don't feel bad about it," says Danielle defiantly.



"Nick did not break up my marriage. It was already in trouble.



"Nick and my mum weren't getting on too well, so I thought the best thing would be if he moved in with us. He was my brother."



Then one day, while her husband was out with their daughter, Danielle and Nick found themselves kissing, and before they knew it they were making love on the sofa.



"My mum came round to give me some mail which had been delivered to her house," says Nick.



"She knocked on the door but when there was no answer she walked in. We'd forgotten to lock the front door.



"When she saw us she shouted at us and then stormed out. Then she came back and kept saying: 'It's wrong, you shouldn't be doing this.'



Danielle adds: "When my husband came back, I knew I had to tell him before my mum did. I said 'I don't want to hurt you, I never wanted to hurt you, but I'm in love with someone else.'



"I didn't have to tell him who. He had already guessed. He was almost eerily calm about it.



He didn't shout or make a scene. He just told me eventually that if it never happened again, perhaps he could forgive me and take me back for the sake of our child."



But Danielle didn't want him back. Ignoring her marriage vows, the needs of her child, the disapproval of her family and the law, she decided she wanted her half-brother instead.



Today, she says she sees her daughter whenever she wants and that relations with her husband, whom she is divorcing, are amicable.



"When my daughter was born, I suffered so badly with post-natal depression that I found it difficult to bond with her," she says.



"I still don't feel we've bonded properly. When my husband moved out, he wanted to take her and I didn't object - perhaps I was in no position to do so. I see her every day.



"She's too young to understand what's happened, and I don't know how I'll explain it to her when she grows up."



Her feelings for Nick appear to be so all-consuming that they have obliterated every other consideration.



Nick says: "Our mother feels very strongly that what we are doing is wrong both morally and legally.



"My view is that we are trying to deal with a new and unnatural situation. I don't see things in terms of right and wrong, I see the circumstances surrounding it.



"We both know that had we grown up together we would have had a normal brother-sister relationship, but we didn't.



"People can say 'that shouldn't happen' all they like, but it did and we want to understand the reasons why, because I do feel very confused.



"Sometimes I feel as if Danielle is my partner, other times that she's my sister, other times almost as if she is a mother to me.



"So many times I have thought 'Surely, this can't be happening. What's going on here?' Until I met Danielle, I never knew what it was like to be so swept out of control by my emotions.



"She is my closest family and my natural family so it feels right being with her. Then sometimes I feel divided in myself because she is my sister."

Danielle adds: "Mum is always saying that she wishes she'd never invited Nick back into our lives. She thinks it was a huge mistake, but I don't.

"I'm really pleased she did. If he'd been in our lives sooner perhaps this wouldn't have happened. We knew what we were doing was against the law, though we never lied about it, and we were terrified of going to prison.



"But now that we have been banned from sleeping together, we are having to acknowledge that the sexual side of the relationship is over and that we can still live together without breaking the bond we have.



"People may be disgusted by what we have done. People may say we are morally wrong and should have stayed away from each other, but we don't want to. I can't imagine life without Nick now."

I can't see me ever agreeing with you two on this one ......



Q: Is this illegal? Are there laws to prevent this kind of union? Are there laws against having children from this kind of union?

Not only is it illegal in most countries but in Germany they even jail people for it.

Pheasy;831616 wrote: I can't see me ever agreeing with you two on this one ......

Which two??????



Q: Is this illegal? Are there laws to prevent this kind of union? Are there laws against having children from this kind of union?


I certainly don't agree with it ....its pretty sick imo. I'm just surprised the child hasn't been taken into care .

And do you think she'd have a more enjoyable or rewarding childhood being brought up in care than being brought up by her own parents, pants? Or are you trying to punish her? or are you trying to punish her parents regardless of the misery you cause the child?

spot;831665 wrote: And do you think she'd have a more enjoyable or rewarding childhood being brought up in care than being brought up by her own parents, pants? Or are you trying to punish her? or are you trying to punish her parents regardless of the misery you cause the child?


Yet another knock-on effect of her 'parents' selfishness - they knew it was illegal.

Pheasy;831681 wrote: Yet another knock-on effect of her 'parents' selfishness - they knew it was illegal.


What is, pheasy?

spot;831703 wrote: What is, pheasy?


The fact that the poor girl will likely be taken into care.

According to whom? Pants was just salivating over the prospect of someone she disapproves of suffering. She tends that way. Nobody in any article I've seen has suggested the family's likely to be split up by the authorities.

Given that it's not even being talked about as a possibility in the media I go back to the question I put to pants. Do you think she'd have a more enjoyable or rewarding childhood being brought up in care than being brought up by her own parents? Or are you trying to punish her? Or are you trying to punish her parents regardless of the misery you cause the child?

Okay my bad .... I assumed that because they had broken the law, taking the children into care would be an automatic next step. However, it looks like they just got their hands slapped, with a warning not to have sex together again ... which is a bit of a joke, as how can this be proven? unless of course they go producing another baby!

A lot of children die.......In Australia ?

"Death rates for both infants (aged under one year) and children (aged 1-14 years) have fallen in recent decades and continue to fall "

"Court documents show the South Australian pair also lost a child as a result of a congenital disease "

Bruv;831351 wrote: A child born earlier died ?

Nature screamed a warning.............it fell on deaf ears.


Bruv;832440 wrote: A lot of children die.......In Australia ?



"Death rates for both infants (aged under one year) and children (aged 1-14 years) have fallen in recent decades and continue to fall "



"Court documents show the South Australian pair also lost a child as a result of a congenital disease "
I've lost your point, Bruv. Can you help me?

rjwould...Post 25If they had adopted a child together, would that be acceptable?

As for the laws of nature. Nature spoke and didn't disagree, the child is fine.


Prompted my reply.................."A child born earlier died ?

Nature screamed a warning.............it fell on deaf ears."

rjwould ....Post 144

A lot of children die. Perhaps nature simply stumbled, burped or farted because this one seems fine. But as I said before, some people will blame this relationship for the child scraping her knee at this point...It's just silly.


My reply was.....

"Oh no they dont......what a stupid bloody answer"

rjwould then gave a link to world child mortality worldwide

http://www.child-survival.org/

And that is where you came in Accountable......giving a link to child mortality in Australia where the events took place.

Hope that makes sense, and sorts out the apparently disjointed context of the random posts

rjwould;832447 wrote: Burn them I say, they're evil...


Go on, say what you think :yh_wink:wah: