Is the new Arizona Law Racial Profiling?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue May 04, 2010 12:54 pm

Bryn Mawr;1307850 wrote: It's the might makes right mentality - gets me every time

Again, I wish that weren't true, but it is and has been since the Devonian Era. It applies to everything from bacteria to the playground to nations.

We were big enough and bad enough to take their land and its their fault because they didn't invent technology to defend themselves? Outrageous!

You do understand you are talking about 15th century mentalities, correct? We are mature enough now not to do things like that, but to expect primitive peoples to act in a 21st century fashion is what's outrageous.

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Tue May 04, 2010 1:50 pm

yaaarrrgg;1307896 wrote: Well, I would think a physical wall would be better than racial profiling. We should make it like North Korea's or East Germany's ... those proven to work.

We have a physical wall. Ours is along Rt. 8 going to San Diego and has a Border Patrol checkpoint about a mile away. Another checkpoint farther up the road checks each vehicle traveling that highway, sometimes a more intensive search than others. I've not had to wait more than 15-20 min., but have been told of waits as long as 1 hour. In spite of helicopters, sensors, drug-sniffing dogs, etc., some manage to slip through.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacumba,_California

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue May 04, 2010 2:37 pm

Saint_;1307903 wrote: Again, I wish that weren't true, but it is and has been since the Devonian Era. It applies to everything from bacteria to the playground to nations.

You do understand you are talking about 15th century mentalities, correct? We are mature enough now not to do things like that, but to expect primitive peoples to act in a 21st century fashion is what's outrageous.

Fifteenth Century?????

The context was :-

There was a little thing called "The American Revolution" followed by a land purchase called, "The Louisiana Purchase.' A country was built.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue May 04, 2010 6:13 pm

80% of the crime in AZ is from Illegals.

Referring to homicides - robbery - rape .

Illegals -

also - driving without license - insurance and usually driving a stolen car with wrong license plate - and 10 people packed into this vehicle..

I believe Canadians - travel with I.D. - have a current license & Ins.

and have proper documentation when traveling from country to country.

I haven't heard any Canada bordering States screaming for help either..

ARIZONA & Other bordering States have been screaming for help for years.

As I stated - I hope AZ stands firm and doesn't buckle under pressure

AL Sharpton is due in AZ to protest tomorrow - why?

stay home..

Patsy

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Tue May 04, 2010 6:17 pm

Patsy Warnick;1308038 wrote: 80% of the crime in AZ is from Illegals.

Referring to homicides - robbery - rape .

Illegals -

also - driving without license - insurance and usually driving a stolen car with wrong license plate - and 10 people packed into this vehicle..

I believe Canadians - travel with I.D. - have a current license & Ins.

and have proper documentation when traveling from country to country.

I haven't heard any Canada bordering States screaming for help either..

ARIZONA & Other bordering States have been screaming for help for years.

As I stated - I hope AZ stands firm and doesn't buckle under pressure

AL Sharpton is due in AZ to protest tomorrow - why?

stay home..

Patsy

Good post Patsy, and I agree.

Al Sharpton is a drama king and needs to be recognized as he has no life.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue May 04, 2010 8:07 pm

Whats wrong with racial profiling?

Seriously I dont understand. Is it the word racial thats got everyone worked into a frenzy?

What if we just call it profiling or geographical behavior pattern profiling?

I do understand the ramifications of segregating sectors of the population based on bias but how is profiling based on clear evidence an issue?

Common sense dictates a very small portion of Middle Eastern peoples are terrorists yet somehow we must be able to separate the offenders from the innocents.

If Mexicans are sneaking into our country uninvited, flagrantly breaking the law by doing so then its Mexicans we must turn our attention to.

So if out of say 5% of those that are here legally in Tempe AZ 1.5% of those are here illegally then how do we enforce the law except to target actual Mexicans.

If its a violation of a legal citizens rights by questioning and or asking for identification for the purpose of weeding out illegals from law abiding citizens then the only alternative is to ignore the problem and let the problem continue.

We act or we dont act.

The legal Mexican citizens could be much more useful by organizing and rallying against the ones that are forcing the problem upon them as opposed to ignoring the fact that a problem that does exist requires a solution and a solution will be found with or without their help.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue May 04, 2010 8:41 pm

Thank You Nomad - I was wondering where you were..?

You sum up exactly what I was trying to say/express.

No - I don't think this AZ Law is the basis for profiling - and it'll occupy Officers time checking I.D. instead of attending a serious deadly scenario. etc.

So, it's a give & take for the residents of AZ and they're willing for this Law to be enforced.

I'm not understanding all the outside interest -example: Al Sharpton ?? Is he planning a Million Man March? Does he live in AZ ?

How does this AZ Law affect him? Drama

Patsy

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue May 04, 2010 9:07 pm

Patsy Warnick;1308062 wrote: Thank You Nomad - I was wondering where you were..?

You sum up exactly what I was trying to say/express.

No - I don't think this AZ Law is the basis for profiling - and it'll occupy Officers time checking I.D. instead of attending a serious deadly scenario. etc.

So, it's a give & take for the residents of AZ and they're willing for this Law to be enforced.

I'm not understanding all the outside interest -example: Al Sharpton ?? Is he planning a Million Man March? Does he live in AZ ?

How does this AZ Law affect him? Drama

Patsy

Likely hes fulfilling his self imposed prophecy as Saviour not to mention some valuable clips on tv. Out of sight out of mind....

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:19 am

yaaarrrgg;1307896 wrote: In all the frenzy about illegal immigration, I haven't heard a peep from the Northern states complaining about Canadians. Why is that? What's the difference?

That's a REALLY important point. You don't see twenty million Canadians traipsing South and sneaking in to America, do you?! Why is that? Because Canada is a well-run, technologically-proficient country that cares about its citizens.

Mexico sucks. Why is that? Because of the Mexicans. They do not care about their people. They do not take care of their country. They are not capable of running their own government efficiently or of climbing out of Third World status, despite being right next to the most powerful economy on the planet.

Why on Earth would we want to let THEM in?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:23 am

Bryn Mawr;1307952 wrote: Fifteenth Century?????

-

Actually, we were talking about how Native Americans lost to the Europeans because they didn't have technology.

1492 - Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:26 am

Saint_;1308150 wrote: Actually, we were talking about how Native Americans lost to the Europeans because they didn't have technology.

1492 - Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

2010 the gulf became the ocean tan

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:34 am

Saint_;1308146 wrote: That's a REALLY important point. You don't see twenty million Canadians traipsing South and sneaking in to America, do you?! Why is that? Because Canada is a well-run, technologically-proficient country that cares about its citizens.

Mexico sucks. Why is that? Because of the Mexicans. They do not care about their people. They do not take care of their country. They are not capable of running their own government efficiently or of climbing out of Third World status, despite being right next to the most powerful economy on the planet.

Why on Earth would we want to let THEM in?

So what is is about the Mexicans that predestine them to failure? Is it their genetics, or history (of being exploited), or both?

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:45 am

Nomad;1308048 wrote: Whats wrong with racial profiling?

Seriously I dont understand. Is it the word racial thats got everyone worked into a frenzy?

What if we just call it profiling or geographical behavior pattern profiling?

I do understand the ramifications of segregating sectors of the population based on bias but how is profiling based on clear evidence an issue?

Common sense dictates a very small portion of Middle Eastern peoples are terrorists yet somehow we must be able to separate the offenders from the innocents.

If Mexicans are sneaking into our country uninvited, flagrantly breaking the law by doing so then its Mexicans we must turn our attention to.

So if out of say 5% of those that are here legally in Tempe AZ 1.5% of those are here illegally then how do we enforce the law except to target actual Mexicans.

If its a violation of a legal citizens rights by questioning and or asking for identification for the purpose of weeding out illegals from law abiding citizens then the only alternative is to ignore the problem and let the problem continue.

We act or we dont act.

The legal Mexican citizens could be much more useful by organizing and rallying against the ones that are forcing the problem upon them as opposed to ignoring the fact that a problem that does exist requires a solution and a solution will be found with or without their help.

Profiling is fine. Harassing minorities is not.

The problem is when a member of the majority commits a crime, we tend to say they are a criminal. When it's a minority of group X, we say they are an X criminal. Racial profiling is itself racist.

For example, when less than 20 Muslims blew up the WTC, we immediately look at profiling all Muslims. Never mind that there are billions that cause no problems at all, and who are opposed to terrorism. However, for example, in U.S. prisons, the largest demographic are people professing to be Christians. Should we monitor all Christian groups too then? If not, then why the double standard?

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed May 05, 2010 8:05 am

Patsy Warnick;1308038 wrote: 80% of the crime in AZ is from Illegals.

Referring to homicides - robbery - rape .

Illegals -

also - driving without license - insurance and usually driving a stolen car with wrong license plate - and 10 people packed into this vehicle..

I believe Canadians - travel with I.D. - have a current license & Ins.

and have proper documentation when traveling from country to country.

I haven't heard any Canada bordering States screaming for help either..

ARIZONA & Other bordering States have been screaming for help for years.

As I stated - I hope AZ stands firm and doesn't buckle under pressure

AL Sharpton is due in AZ to protest tomorrow - why?

stay home..

Patsy

I would think drug trafficking is the root problem for violent crime. I don't see that situation changing anytime soon unfortunately, with U.S. being their best customer, and the laws as they are. This pulls a lot of drugs up through Mexico. All this money get funneled back into illegal activities, guns, gangs, cartels, perpetuating a cycle of organized, criminal activities. We can fixate on a perp's nationality, or race, but that's not really going to fix the core problems IMO.

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Wed May 05, 2010 9:04 am

yaaarrrgg;1308152 wrote: So what is is about the Mexicans that predestine them to failure? Is it their genetics, or history (of being exploited), or both?

What I've found here is that they have little respect for other people's property and for the rules of the game and laws of our country. I'll use Walmart to illustrate:

The Calexico store is on the border on the U.S. side. Here is a comment from some customers.

"Richie E.

5/28/2007 'This is not a very nice Wal-Mart. You may think they're all the same, but not so. Strangely, this one isn't even as nice as it's cousin South of the border in Mexicali. They do carry some things that you can't get your hands on as easily down there, however, so I guess I shouldn't complain. Ha!'

San Diego, CA

7/22/2009 'This place is a freakin' RAT RACE!!!! Worst of all Wal-Marts I've ever been too. I've actually never been to a Wal-Mart that is somewhat descent. Actually, the Wal-Mart at Grossmont Center in San Diego was close to descent.' "

Then they rebuilt the El Centro store, 15 miles from the Calexico one and since it was bigger and well stocked it took away a lot of the Calexico store's business. I went into it 6 months after its opening and found 3 out of 4 toilets in the ladies' room broken. In the one that worked, there was a huge can of Lysol spray. Definitely not a clean place. I complained loudly and tried to lodge a complaint online and couldn't. I've tried to avoid that store since they opened the one in Brawley, 15 miles north. But I've been back to EC a couple of times & have never seen the ladies' room working properly. In the parking lot, carts are left wherever they are emptied of groceries, a lot of times right behind my car. Broken carts are piled up on the edge of the property. There are a lot of Mexicali license plates with horrible, rude drivers who disregard directional arrows and sane driving, most times talking on their cell phones.

Some comments about EC

" Seattle, WA

3/4/2009 'Horrible, or should I say, horrible. Never, EVER, go here. While I generally try to avoid Wal-Mart, this is worse than the rest. Even the BBB gives them an F. I was visiting my brother in El Centro when my tires seemed to shimmy. Since I originally bought my tires at a Wal-Mart in Orange County, something I also do not recommend (go to Costco), I went to this particular Wal-Mart to have them look at them, since it's covered for free because I bought my tires with the company. When I moved to Seattle a month later and had my car looked at just to make sure it survived the drive, they found that nearly all of my lugnuts were cross-threaded (a very dangerous, cheap replacement to simply replacing with new lugnuts). Wal-Mart Corporate would not help and the Calexico location simply played dumb. STAY AWAY!!! And stay away from this chain in general. Target has matching, if not lower, prices. And it's worth an extra $50-100 bucks to get your tires at Costco just for peace of mind and better customer service.'

Leah V.

El Centro, CA

3/6/2009 'Of all the Walmarts I've been to, this one is by far the worst! Especially so if you only speak English. Somehow this Walmart has defied all employment laws (so it would seem) as there are very few workers that live on this side of the border and even fewer that speak English. I went around Christmas and the person I asked for help got mad at me that I didn't speak Spanish - she didn't understand a word of English and walked off when I asked for help. Sad.' "

In Brawley, which is a little too far away from the border to be convenient for Mexicali residents, the store remains clean and well-stocked, the employees friendly & helpful and English-speaking, almost 2 years after its opening. It's well worth the extra 9 miles for me to drive to that store.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed May 05, 2010 3:01 pm

Saint_;1308150 wrote: Actually, we were talking about how Native Americans lost to the Europeans because they didn't have technology.

1492 - Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

The references to the nineteenth century were a direct quote from the discussion we were having.

[pedant mode]If, however, you want to discuss the early Native American losses to the Europeans it all started with Montezuma and the Spanish in the sixteenth century.[/pedant mode]

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:01 pm

yaaarrrgg;1308157 wrote: Profiling is fine. Harassing minorities is not.

The problem is when a member of the majority commits a crime, we tend to say they are a criminal. When it's a minority of group X, we say they are an X criminal. Racial profiling is itself racist.

For example, when less than 20 Muslims blew up the WTC, we immediately look at profiling all Muslims. Never mind that there are billions that cause no problems at all, and who are opposed to terrorism. However, for example, in U.S. prisons, the largest demographic are people professing to be Christians. Should we monitor all Christian groups too then? If not, then why the double standard?

Well its not quite that black and white. Since the 20 Muslims that flew into buildings in 2001 the back up band has had a pretty good ACT II ACT III and ACT IV.

They were Muslims too.

If the Dutch had been the perpetrators and then followed up with several encores wed be looking at the Dutch. I mean if we started bombing Portugal, well that just wouldnt make any sense.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Wed May 05, 2010 10:27 pm

LarsMac;1305745 wrote: The law, itself, is not "racial profiling" but I suspect that there will be some law enforcement personnel accused of it, when they tend to apply it to people who "look like" they are from "South of the Border" and don't speak English.

I am sure that if they stop people on the streets, just to check their papers, they will be accused of, and probably rightfully so, racial profiling.

If they request documentation from EVERY person they encounter at a traffic stop, or at any other call they are dispatched to, then it will be much more difficult to play the race card.

Hmmm Buhh Hummbugg....................... Illegal is illegal...........

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Thu May 06, 2010 4:16 am

Racial profiling is just common sense, a rare commodity in the liberal camp.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Thu May 06, 2010 6:54 am

hoppy;1308362 wrote: Racial profiling is just common sense, a rare commodity in the liberal camp.

So then you agree the new law is racial profiling?

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Thu May 06, 2010 7:01 am

yaaarrrgg;1308384 wrote: So then you agree the new law is racial profiling?

I agree that racial profiling would be good common sense in some circumstances.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Thu May 06, 2010 7:10 am

Nomad;1308314 wrote: Well its not quite that black and white. Since the 20 Muslims that flew into buildings in 2001 the back up band has had a pretty good ACT II ACT III and ACT IV.

They were Muslims too.

If the Dutch had been the perpetrators and then followed up with several encores wed be looking at the Dutch. I mean if we started bombing Portugal, well that just wouldnt make any sense.

I agree it's valid to profile where a person is coming from, and if they are members of militant extremist groups. Though we aren't fighting Muslims as a whole, but only religious extremists (which many Muslims would argue have perverted the basic teachings of Islam).

Where this matters, is if we actually want to win this fight, it's not going to do us any good to alienate 1.5 billion Muslims just because a handful (less than 1000 probably) are causing us any trouble. The majority of these people could be our greatest allies. Imagine if we had these 1.5 billion people on our side, watching our backs.

It's not a good policy to alienate the very people most in a position to help us weed out the bad apples. Which is exactly what the new AZ law does as well.

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Thu May 06, 2010 8:22 am

I don't see how they can cry profiling when the majority of the Border Patrol agents pulling them over are Hispanics. The below article states that 40% of the BP agents are of Mexican heritage but that includes the Canadian border and Florida. Along the Mexican border I would hazard a guess that it's in the 90's. I seldom see an Anglo at our checkpoints or crossings. One of the requirements on the test an applicant takes is to be able to speak Spanish fluently or to have the ability to learn it very quickly.

This article is about a Hispanic female agent who has been called a traitor by some and other agents tell their story.

Hispanic Agents Face Hurdles on Border Patrol - NYTimes.com

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu May 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Ahso!;1307860 wrote: Believe it or not, that is a very popular line of thought here in the US. In most cases (not sure about this one) its a subversion of the term 'survival of the fittest'.

Mexico has the 11th highest GDP in the World yet roughly 50% of the population is poor. This has nothing to do with "fit" and everything to do with immoral savages that bully people out of resources. Human beings separate themselves from animals by knowing that compassion benefits them and animals that don't do not! They Truthfully don't get it!

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Thu May 06, 2010 10:10 pm

AZ News stated in one month 700 Illegals crossed over into AZ.

700 a MONTH..!! Infra Red Cameras showed a path used near Nogales and Illegals walking into AZ.

Patsy

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri May 07, 2010 4:56 am

Patsy Warnick;1308580 wrote: AZ News stated in one month 700 Illegals crossed over into AZ.

700 a MONTH..!! Infra Red Cameras showed a path used near Nogales and Illegals walking into AZ.

Patsy

If a local news outlet can detect and count them so easily why are the authorities not doing so?

Surely, if the State Government is so intent on dealing with the problem that they pass a law that will harass many legal migrants and many American citizens, they should first be taking steps to stop the problem at source?

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Fri May 07, 2010 5:28 am

Mexicans should fight to take back their own country, rather than sneak into another country and turn it into the same sh!thole they ran away from.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Fri May 07, 2010 8:13 am

K.Snyder;1308552 wrote: Mexico has the 11th highest GDP in the World yet roughly 50% of the population is poor. This has nothing to do with "fit" and everything to do with immoral savages that bully people out of resources. Human beings separate themselves from animals by knowing that compassion benefits them and animals that don't do not! They Truthfully don't get it!

What goes around, comes around.

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Fri May 07, 2010 12:37 pm

I went to the Brawley Walmart this morning, which remains clean, well-stocked and has friendly employees and the other shoppers, about 30 that I saw, were polite. There was one other non Hispanic in the store. I did notice that 3 or 4 shopping carts weren't taken back where they belonged. On the drive out of the parking lot a huge white SUV zoomed past me.

All of the windows, side and rear, (I couldn't see the windshield) had the words "BOYCOTT ARIZONA" scrawled with yellow markers or some like substance, blocking his vision, which is against the law in CA. This might get him pulled over, as might the fact that he was talking on a cell phone, also against the law.

From the CA. Vehicle Code

" (2) No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any object or

material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied in or

upon the vehicle which obstructs or reduces the driver's clear

view through the windshield or side windows."

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri May 07, 2010 2:48 pm

hoppy;1308615 wrote: Mexicans should fight to take back their own country, rather than sneak into another country and turn it into the same sh!thole they ran away from.

Hee Hee hee...

Maybe thats what they are planning.

After all these states used to be Mexico.

California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri May 07, 2010 3:32 pm

Bryn Mawr;1308608 wrote: If a local news outlet can detect and count them so easily why are the authorities not doing so?

Surely, if the State Government is so intent on dealing with the problem that they pass a law that will harass many legal migrants and many American citizens, they should first be taking steps to stop the problem at source?

They could have stopped it long ago by penalizing companies by steep enough fines. They won't do it of course because they'll lose money. The result is the common American getting beat out by people that are willing to work for much less money because those Americans are too fat and lazy.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Fri May 07, 2010 7:50 pm

Nomad;1308729 wrote: Hee Hee hee...

Maybe thats what they are planning.

After all these states used to be Mexico.

California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona.

yep. I'm not sure the South appreciates the ironies either. Here's a quick summary of the history:

Coahuila y Texas, a Mexican state of which Texas was a constituent part after 1824, endorsed a plan for the gradual emancipation of the state's slaves in 1827, which angered many slaveholding settlers who had moved to Texas from the South.[2] For this and other reasons, Texas declared independence from Mexico, resulting in war with Mexico. In 1836, the fighting ended and Sam Houston became the first president of the Republic of Texas, elected on a platform that favored annexation to the United States.

Texas Annexation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many [American] immigrants openly flouted Mexican law, especially the prohibition against slavery. Combined with United States' attempts to purchase Texas, Mexican authorities decided in 1830 to prohibit continued immigration from the United States.[50] New laws also called for the enforcement of customs duties angering both native Mexican citizens (Tejanos) and recent immigrants.[51]

Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Mexican border region of Texas was largely populated by immigrants from the United States. These were accustomed to a federalist government and to extensive individual rights, and they were quite vocal in their displeasure at Mexico's shift towards centralism.[4] Already leery of previous American attempts to purchase Texas,[5] Mexican authorities blamed much of the Texian unrest on American immigrants, most of whom had made little effort to adapt to the Mexican culture.[6]

Battle of the Alamo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmm.. that sounds familiar. The American immigrants aren't learning the language or culture. They are for individual rights AND slavery?

In the murder of Mexicans upon their own soil, or in robbing them of their country, I can take no part either now or here-after. The guilt of these crimes must rest on others. I will not participate in them.

Mexican?American War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arizona is the 48th state and last of the contiguous states admitted to the Union, achieving statehood on February 14, 1912

Arizona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri May 07, 2010 10:13 pm

Snyder

WHo the H - ll are you referring to as tooooo fat to work.??

For Gods Sake what a comment.

As far as Illegals following a path into the US

The Federal Gov't has it all under control.:-3

Patsy

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat May 08, 2010 5:30 am

K.Snyder;1308748 wrote: They could have stopped it long ago by penalizing companies by steep enough fines. They won't do it of course because they'll lose money. The result is the common American getting beat out by people that are willing to work for much less money because those Americans are too fat and lazy.

Do more research and less babbling. My state is working on the problem.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... te-history

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat May 08, 2010 8:15 am

Patsy Warnick;1308786 wrote: Snyder

WHo the H - ll are you referring to as tooooo fat to work.??

For Gods Sake what a comment.

As far as Illegals following a path into the US

The Federal Gov't has it all under control.:-3

Patsy

It's simple Patsy really. If you want to complain about losing work to people that are willing to work for less money than you would then, hypothetically, I'd be talking about you among others similar. Survival of the fittest and all of that jazz not crybaby's that have been fed with a golden spoon their entire life. If that's not you then move on. If it is then a very short answer in response to your question is again you among others I know to exist.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat May 08, 2010 8:19 am

hoppy;1308803 wrote: Do more research and less babbling. My state is working on the problem.

Claims of ID fraud lead to largest raid in state history | desmoinesregister.com | The Des Moines Register

I know why the problem exists and the reason you're having difficulty is because you're doing "research" upon text that is a complete and utter lie

Your state is being drained of money due to this problem only because the businesses their are not large or numerous enough to outweigh the term you define as "illegal immigrants" hoppy. Arizona is the middle state between the U.S. and Mexico because even the illegals want to get out of it.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat May 08, 2010 8:36 am

K.Snyder;1308841 wrote: I know why the problem exists and the reason you're having difficulty is because you're doing "research" upon text that is a complete and utter lie

Your state is being drained of money due to this problem only because the businesses their are not large or numerous enough to outweigh the term you define as "illegal immigrants" hoppy. Arizona is the middle state between the U.S. and Mexico because even the illegals want to get out of it.

Thank you. I feel SO enlightened now, and all that BS.

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Sat May 08, 2010 9:13 am

K.Snyder;1308748 wrote: They could have stopped it long ago by penalizing companies by steep enough fines. They won't do it of course because they'll lose money. The result is the common American getting beat out by people that are willing to work for much less money because those Americans are too fat and lazy.

There are many aliens who come across the border, with the proper papers, Green Card, etc, do their work and go back across the border at night. There are a lot of illegals in this country that don't want to work. They DO want to collect benefits for doing nothing, while our taxpayers foot the bill. Thirty years ago, when I first moved to a California border town, I saw a fairly new-looking brick building near the post office. I asked what it was for and was told it was for P.O. boxes. I questioned why a town of 2-3 thousand population would need such a building for boxes. I was told most of the boxes were for the Mexicali residents to establish a U.S. address and come over to collect their S.S. benefit checks.

Here's an interesting story:

Excerpted from Howard Phillips Issues & Strategy Bulletin of June 30, 2005

MEXICANS PROFIT FROM RENTING OUT THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO ILLEGALS

“Gerardo Luviano is looking for somebody to rent his Social Security number. Mr. Luviano, 39, obtained legal residence in the United States almost 20 years ago. But these days, back in Mexico, teaching beekeeping at the local high school in this hot, dusty town in the southwestern part of the country, Mr. Luviano is not using his Social Security number. So he is looking for an illegal immigrant in the United States to use it for him - providing a little cash along the way. …

“ ‘It is seen as a normal thing to do,’ said Luis MagaÃ±a, an immigrant-rights activist assisting farm workers in the agriculture-rich San Joaquin Valley of California.

“The number of people participating in the illegal deals is impossible to determine accurately. But it is clearly significant, flourishing despite efforts to combat identity fraud.”

ILLEGALS USE IDENTITY FRAUD TO SECURE EMPLOYMENT IN U.S.

“Hundreds of thousands of immigrants who cross the border from Mexico illegally each year need to procure a legal identity that will allow them to work in the United States. Many legal immigrants, whether living in the United States or back in Mexico, are happy to provide them: as they pad their earnings by letting illegal immigrants work under their name and number, they also enhance their own unemployment and pension benefits. And sometimes they charge for the favor.

“Martin Mora, a former migrant to the United States who these days is a prominent local politician preparing to run for a seat in the state legislature in next October’s elections, said that in just one town in the Tlalchapa municipality, ‘of about 1,000 that fixed their papers in the United States there might be 50 that are here and lending their number.’ …”

This is an excerpt from an article that shows how they can work the system.

Here's more:

Stop Mexican Raid on Social Security

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun May 09, 2010 9:42 am

Zapata;1308854 wrote: There are many aliens who come across the border, with the proper papers, Green Card, etc, do their work and go back across the border at night. There are a lot of illegals in this country that don't want to work. They DO want to collect benefits for doing nothing, while our taxpayers foot the bill. Thirty years ago, when I first moved to a California border town, I saw a fairly new-looking brick building near the post office. I asked what it was for and was told it was for P.O. boxes. I questioned why a town of 2-3 thousand population would need such a building for boxes. I was told most of the boxes were for the Mexicali residents to establish a U.S. address and come over to collect their S.S. benefit checks.

Here's an interesting story:

Excerpted from Howard Phillips Issues & Strategy Bulletin of June 30, 2005

MEXICANS PROFIT FROM RENTING OUT THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO ILLEGALS

“Gerardo Luviano is looking for somebody to rent his Social Security number. Mr. Luviano, 39, obtained legal residence in the United States almost 20 years ago. But these days, back in Mexico, teaching beekeeping at the local high school in this hot, dusty town in the southwestern part of the country, Mr. Luviano is not using his Social Security number. So he is looking for an illegal immigrant in the United States to use it for him - providing a little cash along the way. ¦

“ ‘It is seen as a normal thing to do,’ said Luis MagaÃ±a, an immigrant-rights activist assisting farm workers in the agriculture-rich San Joaquin Valley of California.

“The number of people participating in the illegal deals is impossible to determine accurately. But it is clearly significant, flourishing despite efforts to combat identity fraud.

ILLEGALS USE IDENTITY FRAUD TO SECURE EMPLOYMENT IN U.S.

“Hundreds of thousands of immigrants who cross the border from Mexico illegally each year need to procure a legal identity that will allow them to work in the United States. Many legal immigrants, whether living in the United States or back in Mexico, are happy to provide them: as they pad their earnings by letting illegal immigrants work under their name and number, they also enhance their own unemployment and pension benefits. And sometimes they charge for the favor.

“Martin Mora, a former migrant to the United States who these days is a prominent local politician preparing to run for a seat in the state legislature in next October’s elections, said that in just one town in the Tlalchapa municipality, ‘of about 1,000 that fixed their papers in the United States there might be 50 that are here and lending their number.’ ¦

This is an excerpt from an article that shows how they can work the system.

Here's more:

Stop Mexican Raid on Social Security

I don't agree with the definition of "illegal immigrant". What I disagree with more is the idea the U.S. cannot afford a population above 400 million(Much more) at the same time anyone suggesting one of the most technologically advanced civilizations finding it difficult to keep people from crossing deserts, mind you, on one single border front.

I more than less worry about what I can change really as opposed to what's possible to p*** about

What I personally disagree with is the amount of obvious corruption the World tolerates and that includes the United States but my priorities lie mainly with people endogenously pertaining to their immediate health and potential to prosper on a personal level. I've always said I'd help any homeless person before I would an American one

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue May 11, 2010 10:17 pm

K Snyder

Any one can work in the U.S. with proper documentation.

You should run for President - you have all the answers.

NO - I didn't have a silver spoon - your out of line..!

Illegals have been a problen for years for the bordering States - Pres. Bush decided to create a WAR and everything else was swept under a carpet.

Pretty good distraction..

Bordering States will have to take this issue into their own hands - which is exactly what AZ did.. Now - there's attention on this issue of Illegals and now turned in all direction to one's liking....

Today - Illegals brought over the Chicken Pox..

Patsy

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Wed May 12, 2010 4:06 pm

Patsy Warnick;1309588 wrote: K Snyder

Any one can work in the U.S. with proper documentation.

You should run for President - you have all the answers.

NO - I didn't have a silver spoon - your out of line..!

Illegals have been a problen for years for the bordering States - Pres. Bush decided to create a WAR and everything else was swept under a carpet.

Pretty good distraction..

Bordering States will have to take this issue into their own hands - which is exactly what AZ did.. Now - there's attention on this issue of Illegals and now turned in all direction to one's liking....

Today - Illegals brought over the Chicken Pox..

Patsy Patsy, we'll see how well Arizona controls it's illegal immigrant problem then won't we?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed May 12, 2010 6:33 pm

As my mother used to say, "It's an ill wind that blows no good." The real benefit of Arizona's law, whether it turns out to be a good one or not, is that it is highlighting the HUGE problem of illegals in our country. (TWENTY MILLION to be exact.)

Everywhere, even here at ForumGarden, people are talking about it and discussing solutions. That's a good thing.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed May 12, 2010 7:04 pm

We'll all have to wait and watch - unless Snyder has another option.

Arizona is a "Right to work" State - wages are low even for a Fat Lazy American.

Snyder - sounds like you have a very sour opinion on Americans - that's too bad.

Patsy

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Thu May 13, 2010 5:09 pm

Thank god and greyhound that the biggest city in my state, Albuquerque has the cahones to stand up to the illegal immigrants.

ABQ Mayor Announces New Immigration Policy

Thursday, 13 May 2010 14:32 Federal immigration agents will now check status of everyone arrested and taken to jail.

Mayor Richard Berry this afternoon announced a new immigration policy that he says will end Albuquerque's status as a "sanctuary city" for criminals.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri May 14, 2010 7:37 am

BTS;1309956 wrote: Thank god and greyhound that the biggest city in my state, Albuquerque has the cahones to stand up to the illegal immigrants.

Mayor Richard Berry this afternoon announced a new immigration policy that he says will end Albuquerque's status as a "sanctuary city" for criminals.

Yeah, I'm glad too. I live in New Mexico and I can just tell that we are going to get a flood of immigrants from Arizona now.

It was bad enough already.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat May 15, 2010 4:34 pm

Patsy Warnick;1309774 wrote: We'll all have to wait and watch - unless Snyder has another option.

Arizona is a "Right to work" State - wages are low even for a Fat Lazy American.

Snyder - sounds like you have a very sour opinion on Americans - that's too bad.

Patsy

Patsy, I'm a people person. If I happen to be talking about an "American" by your perspective then it's merely coincidental. What I do see is a capitalist society that has convinced "it's people" that socialism is bad when applied to a state in which those very same "people" "Love" their country unconditionally. It smacks of irony enough to make the least sane person vomit.

Waving a flag is similarly ironic.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat May 15, 2010 6:30 pm

Snyder

I'm sorry - your really talking in circles.. perhaps it's just me .?

BTS & Saint

I'm glad New Mexico is enforcing strict guidlines/Laws.

I'm hoping all bordering States enforce Immigration like AZ.

Patsy

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat May 15, 2010 6:53 pm

Patsy Warnick;1310341 wrote: Snyder

I'm sorry - your really talking in circles.. perhaps it's just me .?

Patsy

:yh_rotfl

ok

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat May 15, 2010 7:10 pm

Snyder

I don't get it? Do you talk like this - the same as your replies here?

I don't find this Immigration Issue funny at all.

Congrats on throwing a good thread.

GO AZ

Patsy

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat May 15, 2010 7:16 pm

Patsy Warnick;1310356 wrote: Snyder

I don't get it? Do you talk like this - the same as your replies here?

I don't find this Immigration Issue funny at all.

Congrats on throwing a good thread.

GO AZ

Patsy

Talk like what Patsy?

Here, you tell me what you're having trouble understanding in what I'd written in this post and perhaps we can inch our way to it's meaning http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/1310327-post146.html