Boy Suspended for Talking to Mom

[Jika]

Hi Peg, Hi Koan!

I can see you two have been discussing this disturbing news story from differing corners ie: childs view / schools view.

I have to say after reading through this thread the thing I find most irksome is the astounding lack of psychological/pastoral support afforded the child in question.

If I was a teacher or school principle in these current times I would make it a priority to know which of my pupils had parent/s on active service in Iraq so the right levels of support could be put in place ie: school psychologist, councellor, extra tutoring, senior student mentoring etc.

I really don't find it shocking at all that a child in this circumstance "acts out". The underlying, ongoing anxiety levels of a child/adolescent in this situation would be significant and impact in myriad ways; concentration, self-confidence, self-control/repect etc.

Of course we all know children need to feel secure and loved and valued to thrive. They need routines and familiarity and to be listened to.

Hmmm.......questions;

How must this specific child feel?Are the educational authorities equipt to deal with children with these specific needs? Why aren't children/adolescents with parent/s on active service allowed to take their call at any time? What harm would a few minutes conversation do? They could take the call in the corridor or better yet a dedicated phone room. It's not like service personnel would be on the phone every hour, they would only have limited opportunities/access to phone their kids. They of all people would have their childrens best interests at heart and would be highly unlikely to abuse the privilage by calling incessantly. Why If, as so many are keenly wondering what they can do to help and honour their service men and women is this not the norm?

I think one of the most basic, compassionate ways to support these families would be to show their children a greater level of love, support and understanding in schools and the community at large. What was it that Hillary said..."...it takes a village."

[koan]

Jika wrote: Hi Peg, Hi Koan!

I can see you two have been discussing this disturbing news story from differing corners ie: childs view / schools view.

I have to say after reading through this thread the thing I find most irksome is the astounding lack of psychological/pastoral support afforded the child in question.

If I was a teacher or school principle in these current times I would make it a priority to know which of my pupils had parent/s on active service in Iraq so the right levels of support could be put in place ie: school psychologist, councellor, extra tutoring, senior student mentoring etc.

I really don't find it shocking at all that a child in this circumstance "acts out". The underlying, ongoing anxiety levels of a child/adolescent in this situation would be significant and impact in myriad ways; concentration, self-confidence, self-control/repect etc.

Of course we all know children need to feel secure and loved and valued to thrive. They need routines and familiarity and to be listened to.

Hmmm.......questions;

How must this specific child feel?Are the educational authorities equipt to deal with children with these specific needs? Why aren't children/adolescents with parent/s on active service allowed to take their call at any time? What harm would a few minutes conversation do? They could take the call in the corridor or better yet a dedicated phone room. It's not like service personnel would be on the phone every hour, they would only have limited opportunities/access to phone their kids. They of all people would have their childrens best interests at heart and would be highly unlikely to abuse the privilage by calling incessantly. Why If, as so many are keenly wondering what they can do to help and honour their service men and women is this not the norm?

I think one of the most basic, compassionate ways to support these families would be to show their children a greater level of love, support and understanding in schools and the community at large. What was it that Hillary said..."...it takes a village."


This school is equipped. They are trained for sensitivity to the needs of the children with parents in the service as they are the primary school servicing one of the bases. There is a system set up for phone calls. They are aware of his problems as he has had behaviour problems in the past. That is why the school's story makes more sense to me.

We don't know if he receives regular guidance or not but it is there at his disposal if he wants to talk to someone. You can't force someone to heal. They have to participate.

[Wolverine]

hotsauce wrote: The thing he got suspended for was becoming defiant in the office though. Is that correct?


He became defiant when the office person hung up while he was in mid-sentence. Damn right the kid should get pizzed off. That could have been the last time he ever talked to his mom.

[Peg]

I can't believe there are people who cannot understand why he became defiant. I went to a few sites last night to read about this particular case, and get away from the bickering here for a while. There was a teacher whose son is in Iraq. She takes her cellphone with her to school and if her son calls, the class takes a break. If my son, daughter, mother, father, etc. were in Iraq, that cellphone would never leave my side. Yes, the world would stop so I could talk to my loved one. How will school officials feel if they hung up on the mother and the son never again gets the chance to tell her he loves her? Those of you who think the boy was in the wrong, the rules can't be bent, etc., how would you feel if you were not allowed to talk to your loved one in Iraq? Not everyone over there is lucky enough to know when they will be able to call so they can notify the school ahead of time. What this country needs is to put "human" back into humanity.

[spot]

Koan and I are still arguing over whether this case should have resulted in calling the lad into school the following day and apologizing to him and getting it all sorted, once they finally discovered why he'd flown off the handle when approached by the teacher. I see no sign of flexibility in their subsequent application of the rule-book after the teacher faced with a rebellious child acted correctly.

Anyway, here's the best summary I can find of how it ended up looking once all the dust had settled. It's from three weeks later, in the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer of 21st June 2005, and written by Robert B. Simpson who "is a freelance writer and 28-year Infantry veteran who retired as a colonel at Fort Benning. He now lives in Midland".

From time to time, when I haven't submitted anything to the Ledger lately, acquaintances will kindly inquire as to why I haven't been writing much. I usually say I've been too busy, or that unforeseen complications have arisen, or that I just haven't had anything to say. Truthful, but not always the whole truth. There is often another reason, especially where current events are concerned: I live in fear of jumping to a conclusion too quickly.

It's one thing to make a rash statement over dinner, and then find later that all the facts weren't in. It's quite another to make the same statement in print, for thousands to read. I know. I cringe with embarrassment when I remember a time or two -- OK, maybe three -- when I wrote firm opinions that later turned out to be based on incomplete data. It only takes a few of those to make you gun-shy.

So I found it interesting to read the recent avalanche of letters to the editor concerning Kevin Francois and the aborted phone call from his mother in Iraq. The letters reflected no gun-shyness at all.

Large numbers of Americans from around the country, basing their opinions on relatively brief news reports and little or no personal knowledge, practically foamed at the mouth as they spewed their rage at the staff and faculty of Spencer High. Many of them had venom left over to spray on Columbus, a city they seemed to believe bears a special hatred for soldiers and their families.

One fellow said he had never heard of Columbus, Ga., until this matter broke into the news, which made me wonder about the quality of education in his hometown.

I'm not debating the merits of the case here. I have my personal opinion, but it's based on no more information than was available to the outraged multitudes who reacted so loudly and, in many cases, so foolishly. No, I'm just fascinated by the evident willingness of a large slice of our population to form judgments based on little but emotion and an authoritative-sounding news report, a sound bite, or a creative bit on the Internet.

This latest letter-writing campaign explains a lot about Americans. It explains the ability of the advertising industry to persuade us we must have more, bigger, newer, fancier goods and toys. And why we must be ready when disenchantment sets in to junk everything and buy still more, still bigger, still newer goods and toys.

It explains why politicians can tell us black is white, up is down, and the evidence we see with our own eyes doesn't mean what it clearly does mean -- and a fair number of us will believe it. Not only believe it, but swear unending faith and allegiance to the charlatan who mesmerizes us with outrageously transparent lies.

I suppose this is not just the American condition; it's the human condition. But it's sad. Taken to extreme lengths, it's the kind of readiness to swallow anything that causes riots in Afghanistan on the basis of a questionable magazine piece or the insistence by some Iraqis a year or so back that the Americans were stealing their electricity and shipping it to the United States.

Taken to less extreme lengths, it leads someone in another part of this country to accuse Columbus, Ga. -- Columbus, Georgia! -- of being anti-military.

That's not only extreme. It's ludicrous.

[koan]

spot wrote: Koan and I are still arguing


because he still hasn't figured out that I'm right 99% of the time.

[koan]

I was looking forward to having a forum fight with spot today, then his article backed up my point of view. Can I get this in writing, spot? Are you submitting?

Or are you saying the journalist agrees with the school but you still disapprove?

[spot]

The passage in Robert Simpson's op-ed which caught my eye was his more generalized comment that "I'm just fascinated by the evident willingness of a large slice of our population to form judgments based on little but emotion and an authoritative-sounding news report, a sound bite, or a creative bit on the Internet. [...] It explains why politicians can tell us black is white, up is down, and the evidence we see with our own eyes doesn't mean what it clearly does mean - and a fair number of us will believe it. Not only believe it, but swear unending faith and allegiance to the charlatan who mesmerizes us with outrageously transparent lies". I might try to go back to that later on, it relates to what I've been trying to bring out in my current thread on fundamentalism.

As for the boy with the phone I agree entirely that there's insufficient information to know whether he was wilfully provocative or simply distracted by the immediacy of getting the phone call, with all the potential emotional freight it could have carried. What I said at the time was that an intransigent application of a book of rules is inappropriate in a school environment, which is probably where we continue to differ. It's quite possible that a three-day suspension for his behaviour was appropriate. It's quite possible that following the book and extending it to ten days when he challenged the decision was also appropriate, though I find it rather astonishingly insensitive and harsh. It's a recognition of the media frenzy that they subsequently dropped it back to three days instead of sticking to their guns, that's a decision that has nothing to to with what the book said or the boy and the school did.

So I'm left, here, with my original point: "Rules take over from guidelines and judgement. If that's the way you want to organize your lives, then that's what you get. It's people who are behaving in this way, not robots", and my consequent question: "would you describe America these days as authoritarian? There does seem to be a lack of discretion on the part of those handling this incident, and an over-reliance on published rules". Nobody went close to considering those points at the time once the thread disintegrated into an unseemly brawl.

[koan]

spot wrote: So I'm left, here, with my original point: "Rules take over from guidelines and judgement. If that's the way you want to organize your lives, then that's what you get. It's people who are behaving in this way, not robots", and my consequent question: "would you describe America these days as authoritarian? There does seem to be a lack of discretion on the part of those handling this incident, and an over-reliance on published rules". Nobody went close to considering those points at the time once the thread disintegrated into an unseemly brawl.
See posts 91, 94 and 102

Unless you've decided to call me Nobody your assessment is wildly inaccurate.

[Snooz]

I got this in an email this morning:

spot wrote: Her favourite breakfast was tabasco-sprinkled newbies, or "trolls" as she preferred to call them. If you want a glimpse of her style, see what she did with Silver in (link disabled) That was a week after I joined the site and I've never forgotten the shock of seeing her tear fresh meat limb from limb that way. Silver only managed three posts and never wanted to post here again.


which link refers back to this thread.

Sorry, I'm not seeing the supposed abuse of a new person by LC. And I have to wonder why a thread from nearly two years ago was resurrected for the obvious attempt to make spot's point.

What the hell has happened to this forum?

Read quick, this post will most likely be deleted... it's been happening quite a bit lately.

[Accountable]

LC's account apparently has been reopened.

[rkdian]

Tho I sympathize with this young man, and admire his mother and family for their sacrifice to MY freedom, he was wrong. First, why was his phone on while inside the school? Second, if he could leave the building, why not the school grounds. Just walking across the street would have avoided all of this. We need these rules to protect our children as much as we need those soldiers to protect our freedom. His mother MUST know the rules and school hours. I understand that while serving you can't always choose when you get calling priveleges, but as a mother, she knew the repricusions if he were caught. I also am the mother of a young man who is in the service of our country. I have gone months without hearing his voice. It is torture, but he himself would say that he is serving to protect those of us who RESPECT the laws of our land. This young adult must learn now that you need to cover your ass by seeking permission to deviate from the rules PRIOR to the act. Just as bad behavior in a toddler will be repeated without discipline, the fact is two-fold with a teenager.

Sorry to step on so many toes with this response, but I feel that too many of us are beginning to think that the rules were not made for us, but for everyone else. Excuses are like a**holes, everybody's got one, and most of us use them.

[koan]

I think the majority of thread participants share your POV, rkdian

I continue to believe that part of the school's job is teach kids how to make good choices. The boy had a choice between quickly explaining the situation with the simple words "but it's my mom from Iraq" or to be belligerent, acting abusively towards the teacher without making an effort to explain. He chose the latter and there should, in my mind, be consequences for that.

[Snooz]

Accountable;525351 wrote: LC's account apparently has been reopened.


I just asked her if she could log in and this is her email response back:

no i can't and if there's a thread about it, you can say so


So that means she isn't here to defend herself, which explains my annoying pop ins like this. She hasn't been able to post in weeks, and she had a new account quickly closed this weekend without explanation.

The inmates are apparently running the asylum.

[Accountable]

SnoozeAgain;525372 wrote: I just asked her if she could log in and this is her email response back:







So that means she isn't here to defend herself, which explains my annoying pop ins like this. She hasn't been able to post in weeks, and she had a new account quickly closed this weekend without explanation.



The inmates are apparently running the asylum.
'kay.



Banned acounts used to have "banned" under the nickname, and the profile would be inaccessible. I guess that's a change.

[Galbally]

SnoozeAgain;525372 wrote: I just asked her if she could log in and this is her email response back:



So that means she isn't here to defend herself, which explains my annoying pop ins like this. She hasn't been able to post in weeks, and she had a new account quickly closed this weekend without explanation.

The inmates are apparently running the asylum.




Yo snooze, any nooze?

As for this kid on the phone, oh you know, bit of common sense, thats all.

[RedGlitter]

Considering what the stress might be like of having a parent stuck in a wartorn country where he or she could die at any minute, I am not surprised the kid refused to hand over his cell nor does the profanity surprise me. The school said he was a chronic problem and if that's true, then that's what this is all about right there.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

SnoozeAgain;525372 wrote: I just asked her if she could log in and this is her email response back:



So that means she isn't here to defend herself, which explains my annoying pop ins like this. She hasn't been able to post in weeks, and she had a new account quickly closed this weekend without explanation.

The inmates are apparently running the asylum.


Hey, there's my Snoozie mate . :yh_wave

[K.Snyder]

I would have kicked that teachers ***...

Suspension would be the last of what would have happened to me, because I would probably be sitting in a jail cell.

[Rosette]

I don't think the guy could have done any more....we went out of the school...he may not have been able to go out of the school gates....

If his mum was serving on the front line.....who knows when he would be able to speak to her again..... don't forget this guy has already lost his dad under similar circumstances.....

If this was me....my priority would be to speak to my mum!!!

I would have been very frustrated..walking up to that office...don't forget he must have been going through many emotions..... scared for his mum, angry at the teachers for not giving him a break.... disappointed... he couldn't end the call properly and maybe not knowing when he will have the opportunity to speak to her again........ I'm not surprised his emotions spilled out!

[Carl44]

Rosette;567466 wrote: I don't think the guy could have done any more....we went out of the school...he may not have been able to go out of the school gates....



If his mum was serving on the front line.....who knows when he would be able to speak to her again..... don't forget this guy has already lost his dad under similar circumstances.....



If this was me....my priority would be to speak to my mum!!!



I would have been very frustrated..walking up to that office...don't forget he must have been going through many emotions..... scared for his mum, angry at the teachers for not giving him a break.... disappointed... he couldn't end the call properly and maybe not knowing when he will have the opportunity to speak to her again........ I'm not surprised his emotions spilled out!
good post i agree

[foofoo stripper]

jimbo;567471 wrote: good post i agree


I also agree.

[Indian Princess]

Well, I think that the teacher who went to grab the cell phone away from him, should be suspended for 10 days becuase that was entering the students personal space, I mean if a student did that to a teacher, I'm sure the outcome would be different, also, what a shame the ass of a teacher couldnt be human enough to realize his mother is all he has and that she is putting her life on the line for the ass of a teacher. That teacher is a small, small, small, human being and I wish we could all send a letter to that *&^*(%! teacher.