ForumGarden

You are winning hand over fist!! Kudos! I better get a Xmas gift from YOU! After all this is Oi Lady J! LOL!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

I was surprised by Blue Maisey!

Did you know that Maisey means pearl? Well as least in Greek it does...from the name Mairead...which translates to Maisey.

Just saying......

Lady J;1464329 wrote: You are winning hand over fist!! Kudos! I better get a Xmas gift from YOU! After all this is Oi Lady J! LOL!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

I was surprised by Blue Maisey!

Did you know that Maisey means pearl? Well as least in Greek it does...from the name Mairead...which translates to Maisey.

Just saying......


No I didn't know that.... Interesting.

Of course I shall remember you at Christmas. :wah:

Have to admit, I was surprised at Blue Maisey... she's been out most of the season with Injury and she wasn't really race fit. I think the management thought they'd give her a gallop but she surprised us all.

It's a good season thus far... we are In profit.... It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas :driving:

Piceno has been DECLARED to run at Ayr on Saturday 20th September In the

seven furlong handicap & Matthew Hopkins rides however he won't run if

the course does not get any rain

Piceno withdrawn from tomorrows race. No rain, so won't risk jar Injury on too firm ground.

Tomorrow all declared

Penalty Scorer 2.00 Nottingham,

Blue Maisey 3.45 Beverley

and Ted's Brother 4.20 Newcastle.

Oh baby girl.... now what have I told you about getting your nose out In front !!!

Result of the 2.00 Nottingham

1st Essaka 4/6 Favourite

2nd Penalty Scorer 10/1

3rd Smart Stepper 7/1

So close again !!! Photograph finish... beaten by a short head.

Sky experts verdict on Penalty Scorer

Chased leaders, ridden to challenge over 1f out, led entering final furlong, stayed on, headed last stride

Still so Immensely proud of our baby girl.

Share of 2nd place prize money :guitarist:guitarist:guitarist

Sorry Lady J.... what was that you were saying about Blue Maisey :wah:

YEHAWWWWW



Result of the 3.45 at Beverley today.

1st Blue Maisey 14/1 by 2 and half lengths.... pissed It

2nd Kimbali 10/1

3rd Ellaal 8/1

Sky verdict on Blue Maisey

Held up towards rear, pushed along over 2f out, headway over 1f out, kept on to lead well inside final furlong opened 12/1

Share of 1st place prize money :guitarist:guitarist:guitarist

I'm so proud I could cry

Ted's Brother Trainer withdrew him from the race... ground deemed unsuitable

eta... her win was after the handicapper dealt his harsh sword giving her 5lb extra for coming 2nd last time out and she was badly drawn In the stalls.... by Jove, I believe we have a new superstar.

Our Investments now 11 race horses..... WE have the addition of Harry Bosch

GOLD SHOW- Everything going well and I am sure we will see her on the

flat before the season is out and then she will be running over hurdles

during the winter. - EDWIN

FAZZA- He has had a few easy days at the beginning of this week as he

looked a little tired after Pontefract. When I saw him this morning he

looked a lot more like himself and he will be given some easy work in

the morning before stepping back up to full work again. - EDWIN

BLUE MAISEY- She’s been in the field all day today and seems fine

after yesterday thrilling win. She did it really well and I will make an

entry for Newcastle next Wednesday. The race is only over seven furlongs

but there isn’t much else for her so we might take a chance. – EDWIN



SALLY FRIDAY- She continues to build her fitness levels back up and

everything is going to plan. – EDWIN

VODKA RED: Out in the field recovering. – BOB

PICENO –. He’s just about back to his best. He has an entry for

Epsom on Sunday which may once again come a bit too soon. SCOTT

BURNHOPE– He’s in good form at home and has an entry at Ayr on

Tuesday.SCOTT

TED’S BROTHER- I’m happy with him and his next run will likely be at

Ayr next week. RICHARD

PENALTY SCORER- She’s run a great race just to get chinned on the

line. She’s fine this morning and will likely run at Musselburgh on

Sunday. RICHARD

LITTLEMISSPARTON- She’s coming along really well and is around 2 weeks

of a run I would say now. OLLIE

HARRY BOSCH- It was a smashing run from the horse at Leicester as I

haven’t been able to do much with him since his last run. It was

Keely-Jo first ever ride and she did a cracking job. He will be winning

over the next few months for sure. - GAY

After getting chinned on the line again, Penalty Scorer Is on her way to Bonny Scotland tomorrow for the 2.30 at Mussleburgh.

Handicapper has been at It again and given her 3 lb for her 2nd a few days ago.

Neil Farley her favourite jockey gets the booking... there's a couple In there that could be a threat to her but ground OK and she's fit and well.

Will open around 8/1... worth an E/W punt

Nope... she didn't like Scotland nor the 5 furlongs.... Penalty Scorer 6th Back to 7 furlongs me thinks

Ted's Brother lines up In the 5.30 at Ayr tomorrow.

Jason Hart booked to ride.

We need some rain to take the going from good to soft to soft.

Currently 16/1 due to the weights again

Nope... Ted's Brother hated Scotland also and ran a s.hitter 12th

Blue Maisey lines up tomorrow In the 4.10 Newcastle... currently 5/1

She could claim this one

Harsh Handicapper awarded her an extra 5 lb ( bastard ) for her win last week...but Jack Garritty replaces the suspended Kevin Stott and claims a valuable 5lb which will help her on the weights.

It's probably simply because I don't fully understand the rules of handicapping (if at all), but I can never see the point of having 'midgets' for jockeys, when they only add weights to make the weight up.

FourPart;1465413 wrote: It's probably simply because I don't fully understand the rules of handicapping (if at all), but I can never see the point of having 'midgets' for jockeys, when they only add weights to make the weight up.


Then, no you don't understand the handicapping. The Handicappers sit every Tuesday and review the performance of every horse that has run that week. The horse then has his ' mark' adjusted to his last performance. Without going Into reams of regs and rules, simply, It Is to stop the same horses winning every race, taking all the prize money and give other horses a chance. Trainers can then only enter horses within the bracket of their horses mark. So, for example, If Penalty Scorer Is awarded a mark of 65, her trainer can only enter her In races open for marks between 40 and 70 mark... this Is to stop those horses with a mark of say, 120 pissing the race against those way below his mark.

If the handicapper ups the mark on a Tuesday, It's dependant on last performance so If she's In a race of 40 to 70 and she has been marked, say at 65, due to her last performance, she will carry whatever pounds extra which Is done by leaded weights under the saddle.

The simple reason the Jockey or midget as you call them, Is so small, Is about streamlining the horse In a race, for areo dynamics... At the start of every race, the jockey Is weighed... as soon as he finishes the race, he Is weighed again... If between his last race and the race he Is due to ride In, he has lost 5 lbs, that's a bonus for the horse In that race... ie the Jockey can claim 5 lb.

I did say from the start that I didn't understand the system. I was always of the understanding that the reason jockeys had to be weighed before each race was so that with added weights they would all be carrying the same weight.

I'm in on way disputing what you're saying - you obviously the authority on this subject. I just find what you're describing to be a bit of a crazy system. It's like when they run the London Marathon, all the 'real' runners are put at the front, while all the novelty ones are at the back. Now, that makes sense to me, so that the true contenders are allowed to compete on a like for like basis, whereas what you're describing seems to be the total reverse, thus giving the novelty ones a massive head start. Or am I misunderstanding what you're describing here?

BTW. In case this comes across as being sarcastic, it's not meant to. It's a serious question, based on my limited understanding of the system.

FourPart;1465436 wrote: I did say from the start that I didn't understand the system. I was always of the understanding that the reason jockeys had to be weighed before each race was so that with added weights they would all be carrying the same weight.

I'm in on way disputing what you're saying - you obviously the authority on this subject. I just find what you're describing to be a bit of a crazy system. It's like when they run the London Marathon, all the 'real' runners are put at the front, while all the novelty ones are at the back. Now, that makes sense to me, so that the true contenders are allowed to compete on a like for like basis, whereas what you're describing seems to be the total reverse, thus giving the novelty ones a massive head start. Or am I misunderstanding what you're describing here?

BTW. In case this comes across as being sarcastic, it's not meant to. It's a serious question, based on my limited understanding of the system.


Horse Racing has the most complex of rules and regs under The British Horse racing Authority In any sport. It's actually extremely complicated and even my husband who has a degree can not get his head around It... So no failure there on your part.

The Handicapping system Is the hardest part to understand and whether you understand It Is not so much down to brain matter but after you've spent years In the Industry and finally, you can wrap your head around It.

As I said, It's primarily down to stopping higher Grade horses taking all the the prize money.

In Jumps racing, there are 6 Grades. In Flat racing, they are called ' Groups' and there are again 6.

Then there's the added complication of during Jumps season, jumps are called ' Obstacles because Jumps racing Is divided Into various catagories... Steeple chasing, Hurdles, Cross Country etc etc.

The horses are Graded due to age and experience. So for example the Hurdler can not run In Steeple chases and vice versa. So for example, take the legend that Is ' Denman' who won the 2008 Gold Cup... In the 2009 Hennessy Gold Cup, he was awarded a mark from the handicapper that was one of the highest ever awarded In steeple chasing... which was 172 out of a maximum of 180. So by that, he can not be entered for races open to marks between 100 to 140 because It would be an unfair advantage on every other horse. His mark dictated that he could only compete In races open to Grade 1 or 2 horses where he Is not punching above his weight nor Is he competing against horses with less experience below his weight.

That's the simplist was I can explain It.

In all honesty, Flat racing bores the pants off me. I buy Into Flat sprinters purely because of less chance of Injury to them. My forte Is National Hunt Jumps racing and I'm a bit of nerd on statistics as you'll see In my threads when the season starts next week. During the Jumps season, I was Invited to write for a Horse Racing site. It's not about tipping winners, more about giving the reader enough Information on the runners In big races for them to arrive at their own decision. My Brother Is a course Bookmaker who I have worked for on most courses and National Hunt Is my passion...I also did a 6 year apprenticeship Into the gaming side of the Industry many years ago...However, I don't know It all

I think I see what you're saying, but it just sounds so (morally) fraudulent to me - Just like Positive Discrimination in Employment Law - moving the goalposts in order to give preference over someone who is better qualified & experienced to someone else, less suitable for the position because of belonging to some minority or another.

Or am I misinterpreting things?

FourPart;1465460 wrote: I think I see what you're saying, but it just sounds so (morally) fraudulent to me - Just like Positive Discrimination in Employment Law - moving the goalposts in order to give preference over someone who is better qualified & experienced to someone else, less suitable for the position because of belonging to some minority or another.

Or am I misinterpreting things? Yes you are..

If a horse by his age and experience Is far more qualified than others, how can It be fair to allow his owner to enter him In a race against 2 year old novices who may have just had 3 outings against his 40 ? If we had that system then owners lucky enough to own horses of Grand National standard are not going to enter their horses In races where their horse Is running against similar experience and age but enter them for races against lower rated horses, thus taking all the prize money... what part of that, do you not get?

Fourpart... I want you to watch this horse race... considered to be the greatest race of all time.

In this race, there were Grade 1 and 2 Steeplechasers. The highest claibre of Steeple chasers. In the field was an Irish Grand National winner, a Grand National winner, A Gold Cup winner and Irish Challengers.

Denman was awarded the highest mark ever by the handicapper 172.. out of a possible `180 based on recent performances, age and experience... this meant he carried, In this race, the maximum handicap any horse can carry. He was weighted down with 11 stone 12 lb In extra weights to give all the other horses a chance.

The average weight that day of all other runners was 7 stone 8lb

When you have watched the race In full... you come back and explain to me why you think that the winner of that race can then be entered In races for 2 year old novices or any other race.

Newbury - Hennessy Gold Cup 2009 - YouTube

I watched it all through and, to be honest, to me it didn't look any different to any other horse race. It's just that I see what you are describing as being no different to fastening a length of cord across Usain Bolt's ankles, the length of which is dependant on the lessers in the competition. To be a fair competition it needs to be to allow the best to be the best. It is by competing against the best the contestants become experienced. It just doesn't seem right that the best should be put at a disadvantage, simply because the others are not yet up to his / her standard.

You ask why the winner should not be handicapped against the less experienced runner. I see it as the other way round. Don't they have a system as with Football League Tables, where the competitors get to match like with like? That would seem a fairer system to me.

As for that level of handicap. That is simply amazing. The handicap must have been more than the weight of the jockey.

I'm afraid the whole concept of handicapping still seems bizarre to me.

FourPart;1465526 wrote: I watched it all through and, to be honest, to me it didn't look any different to any other horse race. It's just that I see what you are describing as being no different to fastening a length of cord across Usain Bolt's ankles, the length of which is dependant on the lessers in the competition. To be a fair competition it needs to be to allow the best to be the best. It is by competing against the best the contestants become experienced. It just doesn't seem right that the best should be put at a disadvantage, simply because the others are not yet up to his / her standard.

You ask why the winner should not be handicapped against the less experienced runner. I see it as the other way round. Don't they have a system as with Football League Tables, where the competitors get to match like with like? That would seem a fairer system to me.

As for that level of handicap. That is simply amazing. The handicap must have been more than the weight of the jockey.

I'm afraid the whole concept of handicapping still seems bizarre to me. Let me try another angle... where do you think race prize money, often thousands, comes from? It comes from entrants fee's. So every owner or trainer entering their horse for a race must pay an entrants fee. In Grade 1 races such as the Gold Cup or Hennessy, this can be a few thousand.

So Imagine If there are higher performers such as Denman entered In a high prize money race, would you as an owner or trainer, pay hundreds or thousands of pounds to enter your horse In that race, knowing he hasn't a hope In hell of even getting placed? No you wouldn't. You'd enter your horse In races where you stood a good chance of winning. So what would happen, for example, Denman, every race Denman gets entered for, If there was no Grading or handicapping, you'd end up with a 3 horse race Instead of a field of 20 runners. So 3 entry fee's will not cover prize money.

In the case of Denman as an example, most trainers In that race knew he was going to be damn hard to beat. When It's announced Denman will carry 11 stone 12 Lbs, other trainers think given the weight slowing him down, their horse has every chance off a lighter weight.

An example... During the Cheltenham Festival, one race Is World Hurdle over 2 miles and big prize money. Until two years ago, this race was dominated by one horse ' Big Bucks' who won It 4 consecutive years. When the declarations go In for the Festival where champions meet champions, most trainers will enter their horse for 2 different races over the 4 days. They throw their names In the hat and then they wait right until 2 days before the race for the final declarations to declare. What they hope, as In the case of Big Bucks Is that nearer to the day, he'll be Injured and withdrawn. If he Is, then they declare their horse for that race. If not and his trainer makes a final declaration, they'll withdraw his horse from the race because he knows his horse has no chance of beating Big Bucks and he'll opt for the alternative race.

The average field of entrants during Big Bucks reign of 4 consecutive wins was on average 10 horses declared to compete against him. Two years ago, Big Bucks was Injured and couldn't run the race. That year, the entrants for the World Hurdle suddenly went from 10 to 66... obviously whittled down nearer the day but I hope you get the point here.

There Is another aspect to why we Grade horses and handicap. In the race you just watched, they were all seasoned Grade 1 and 2 Steeplechasers who had a few years experience and In races like the Hennessy, jumping and stamina Is everything. All races have age limits as well as Grade limits. The race you just watched Is open for horses over 5 years old. By that time, few will fall at the hurdles because they are experienced. Now Imagine throwing Into that field 2 year olds who've only run a few times and jumping wise, are still Inexperienced. You have horses In the race like Denman, Gold Cup winners, worth millions. You can not risk a young Inexperienced 2 year old entering that race, making a mistake and bringing down champions worth millions and Injuring them and that Is one reason races are Graded so like compete against like.

Oscar Namechange;1465389 wrote: Blue Maisey lines up tomorrow In the 4.10 Newcastle... currently 5/1

She could claim this one

Harsh Handicapper awarded her an extra 5 lb ( bastard ) for her win last week...but Jack Garritty replaces the suspended Kevin Stott and claims a valuable 5lb which will help her on the weights.


Hey Oscar!

I know I am running behind...no pun intended... but September and October are extreme months for me. Just finished up the Animal Advocates Walk for Paws and raised over $1,600 US$

Now into Barkoween at the Dpk. I'll be back to comment ... don't write me off just yet!:guitarist

I understand what you're saying. It just doesn't seem right to me. It come across that if you have a really good horse, then there's not really much point in going to all the trouble & expense to keep him trained, because it's only going to be nullified once it gets to the track.

You say there is a Grade 1 & Grade 2. This much I can understand (if it's what I understand it to be), as this is a little towards the example I gave of Football Divisions, with the Premier League being the Elite where, obviously, a local Amateur team wouldn't stand a chance of beating them, but at the end of each year a set number are either promoted or relegated according to their performance, thus matching like with like, with no further handicapping required. Isn't there something more like this in horse racing?

As for funding, I always thought that the majority came from payments by Bookies, such as Ladbrokes, as well as gate admissions. They're also they only reason I could imagine for the need to 'fix' the race, as such, seeing as Bookies don't like favourites to win.

FourPart;1465536 wrote: I understand what you're saying. It just doesn't seem right to me. It come across that if you have a really good horse, then there's not really much point in going to all the trouble & expense to keep him trained, because it's only going to be nullified once it gets to the track.

You say there is a Grade 1 & Grade 2. This much I can understand (if it's what I understand it to be), as this is a little towards the example I gave of Football Divisions, with the Premier League being the Elite where, obviously, a local Amateur team wouldn't stand a chance of beating them, but at the end of each year a set number are either promoted or relegated according to their performance, thus matching like with like, with no further handicapping required. Isn't there something more like this in horse racing?

As for funding, I always thought that the majority came from payments by Bookies, such as Ladbrokes, as well as gate admissions. They're also they only reason I could imagine for the need to 'fix' the race, as such, seeing as Bookies don't like favourites to win.


It's not going to be nullified when they get to the track Is It.?

Horses are just like footballers. they need experience. You can train a horse all you like at home on the gallops but how he performs on a race track Is another matter. Why do you think, you see horses In races wearing ear plugs, cheek pieces, tongue straps, blinkers, full hoods etc etc. Because they are temperamental gits on the course. Mad Moose Is a classic example, brilliant at home on the gallops but get him on a race course and he'll refuse to start.

Do you seriously believe the World Cup Manager would play a vital qualifier and then put In Inexperienced players?

Horses are Graded due to handicapping. So If my Penalty Scorer for example was to have a blistering season, the handicapper would, race by race, be adjusting her mark. She would go from a mark of say, 60 to 80 by the end of the season. Then, she can be entered for races open to marks between 70 and 100, thus she Is being slowly up graded. In five years when she Is at her prime, she would or could be Grade 1 and then she's In races worth thousands and thousands of pounds Instead of a few thousand... but that's flat racing... National Hunt Is entirely different.

The Grand National Is the only race open to amateurs but last year we barred 6 year old's from entering. Why, Because simply, lack of experience running In fields of 40 horse, lack of jumping experience and lack of stamina. Stats show that only one 6 year old has even managed to get around the course let alone finish.

Then you have to take on board the mentality of the race goer... ie the person who goes to the courses to watch horse racing. Most are not there to scream at a number from a sea of numbers from the grandstand.. Cheltenham Festival especially, we go to see Grade 1's the aristocracy of National Hunt come together and admire equine athletes In the pre parade ring. If any old novice horse could enter those races, you'd see gate sales down from 65,000 people to 5,000.

As an example, should they be declared, I will be travelling down to Kempton Park on Boxing Day, just to see three horse. Silviniaco Conti, Simonsig and Dynaste. It's not about horses but the quality of horses and to get to those heights, they have to work their way up.

Have a look at this short video. This the Champion Mare Hurdler returning to the winners enclosure at Cheltenham In March... This Is not the stands or the race watchers... these people have waited In the winners enclosure just to get a glimpse of her should she have won the race, when she Is brought back to the paddock.....That Is the adoration we lavish on the Champions... I'm In there somewhere.

Quevega Makes History At Cheltenham (11-03-2014) - YouTube

Now... Flat racing

So Fourpart... Do you think I would have paid thousands of pounds entering Penalty Scorer as an example, a 2 year old Novice In the 2,000 Guinea's against this Group 1 entrant ?

2011 Was All About One Horse: Frankel - YouTube

Oscar Namechange;1465563 wrote:

Horses are just like footballers. they need experience. You can train a horse all you like at home on the gallops but how he performs on a race track Is another matter. Why do you think, you see horses In races wearing ear plugs, cheek pieces, tongue straps, blinkers, full hoods etc etc. Because they are temperamental gits on the course. Mad Moose Is a classic example, brilliant at home on the gallops but get him on a race course and he'll refuse to start.

Do you seriously believe the World Cup Manager would play a vital qualifier and then put In Inexperienced players?


That's my point exactly. Why would a manager invest Millions in a top notch player, only to be made to weigh him down to abate his performance because the competition aren't up to his standard?

Athletes in any event, right across the board enter as inexperienced starters, without a hope, but it is in that way that they gain their experience & grow to become real contenders, yet none of the leaders here are expected to be handicapped in order to Positively Discriminate in favour of the less talented, less experienced underdogs. Even if they aren't top of the line, their investors put their money in based on their future potential. This is why there are different leagues.

It's like making Usain Bolt run backwards because otherwise the rest of the runners wouldn't stand a chance of beating him.

I see horses as being naturally magnificent animals, and it just seems wrong to me to prevent them from performing to their best, because the others aren't up to their standard.



So Fourpart... Do you think I would have paid thousands of pounds entering Penalty Scorer as an example, a 2 year old Novice In the 2,000 Guinea's against this Group 1 entrant ?
I'm not disputing this whatsoever. You're obviously well aware that investment in horses is an extremely high risk investment, hence the high returns. That much goes without saying. It just seems daft to me that everything is designed to give the underlings an unfair advantage. An investment looks to the long term. You can't be expected to have one of your new mounts be the top runner from the start. I'm sure that much can take years & hundreds of races to achieve, but once that standard is reached, then the returns must be massive, but then it seems that everything is done to prevent you from benefiting from your investments & earning these hard earned returns.

Out of curiosity, is there some sort of category of horse racing where handicapping is not used at all, and left to demonstrate their true potential?

Don't you see... If you don't handicap those that perform time after time, you'd have no owners entering their horse In races against them because they'd know there Isn't a hope In hell of beating them. That's why Frankel considered to be the world's greatest miler always ran small fields. Owners just would not compete their horses against him , thus the punters, the course and the Industry Is looking at 3 or 4 runners In a race and no-one wants to see them and the bookies are forced due to the lack of runners, to offer such short odds, that people stop betting.

There are non handicap races run In the UK, but the downside of a non handicap race, Is they are targeted by young Inexperience horses where the punter has little or no form to go by. Non handicaps tend to be open for novices only such as the Novice Hurdle or The Novice Chase.

You are forgetting also that when a horse In his prime of experience reaches a Mark where Is Is heavilly handicapped to give other horses a chance, when he loses, his Mark Is readjusted... thus he Is continually competitive.

Oscar Namechange;1465608 wrote: Don't you see... If you don't handicap those that perform time after time, you'd have no owners entering their horse In races against them because they'd know there Isn't a hope In hell of beating them. That's why Frankel considered to be the world's greatest miler always ran small fields. Owners just would not compete their horses against him , thus the punters, the course and the Industry Is looking at 3 or 4 runners In a race and no-one wants to see them and the bookies are forced due to the lack of runners, to offer such short odds, that people stop betting.
No - I'm not even sure you understand what I'm getting at.

I understand what you're saying & the reason for it, in the way that you've described. I just find it a totally bizarre system.

If they were to do it as with football, then the younger, less experienced mounts could come in at the lower leagues (I imagine similar to your Grades), then be moved up to the more rewarding higher leagues as their status improves, thus matching like with like.

As we know, the Premier League in football it what everyone aims for, because that is where the money is. The same must be true of Horse Racing.

If I were into racing, I'm sure I would find a race where all the steeds are running at their full potential far more exhilarating, rather than watching all the best ones being heavily weighed down because a couple of donkeys happened to be entered (although that might be fun in itself).

FourPart;1465613 wrote:

If I were into racing, I'm sure I would find a race where all the steeds are running at their full potential far more exhilarating, rather than watching all the best ones being heavily weighed down because a couple of donkeys happened to be entered (although that might be fun in itself). But don't you see ?Take a Grade 1 Steeple Chase... by the time all the runners have qualified for that race, all the runners are handicapped, equally out the runners... some just more than others dependent on that season's performance.

Very often especially In National Hunt, you will get the same horses come up against each other. Example In the 2013 Betfair Chase, Cue Card beat Silviniaco Conti...but In the following King George Stakes In December, Silviniaco Conti beat Cue Card.

If we didn't have the system we have, Paul Nichols who trains Conti, would not have entered him for the King George because he's believe he couldn't beat Cue Card gfiven the distance he beat him by In the Betfair.

Another example... Dynaste didn't fire and was unplaced In the King George last December but then went on to take the Rynair at Cheltenham In March...

When we reach a point where those In their prime become legends, It's because of outstanding feats such as Denman In the 2009 Hennessy who win regardless of weight, regardless of right or left handed track, regardless of Jockey, regardless of ground conditions... that's what makes a legend... and this Is one Legend we will never see the like of again..



In fact watch this race right though and see what happened when horses who do not have the stamina are entered for Grade 1's

Oscar Namechange;1465615 wrote: But don't you see ?Take a Grade 1 Steeple Chase... by the time all the runners have qualified for that race, all the runners are handicapped, equally out the runners... some just more than others dependent on that season's performance.


That sounds even more stupid. If they're ALL handicapped equally, then why handicap them at all?

Football teams go up & down the rankings as well, depending on the season's performance, but they're still playing like against like without handicapping the best players. You might as well make the lower ranking's team's goal a lot smaller (or the better one's goal bigger) to give them a better chance. The principal doesn't seem any different.

FourPart;1465617 wrote: That sounds even more stupid. If they're ALL handicapped equally, then why handicap them at all?

Football teams go up & down the rankings as well, depending on the season's performance, but they're still playing like against like without handicapping the best players. You might as well make the lower ranking's team's goal a lot smaller (or the better one's goal bigger) to give them a better chance. The principal doesn't seem any different. You can't have a system that ensure's like runs against like and then abandon the system when It suits a Grade 1 race that's attracted high quality horses.

Many years ago, decades ago thankfully, there was a lot of race fixing In UK horse racing. It was rife. Today's minefield of rules and Regs under the BHA, ensure this never happens again and apart from the odd doping scandal as we saw In Godolphin Yard last year, they are rare. The system we have means that races can not be fixed.

Burnhope lines up In 17.40 tomorrow at Leicester

Result of the 17.40 Leicester today

1st No Refund

2nd Keene's Pointe

3rd Burnhope

Share of 3 rd place prize money :driving::driving::driving:

Having received my Jockey's reports, I am get Increasingly pissed off with Course Management on some courses. We had this some years ago and owners kicked up. It got to the point some owners and trainers would not enter their horses on certain tracks.



Looks like we have this problem re-emerge. Piceno lost a shoe standing on a nail stumbling on an uneven course when he exited the stalls, and now reading Jockey reports, Ted's Brother suffered In his last race again due to uneven turf. We pay the buggers enough to race our horses and what should happen, Is a second roll of the course after rain to ensure a flat surface the morning of the race. I don't believe they did this second roll as many skimp on It and the result was Ted's Brother stumbling badly very early In the race last time out. He's OK and luckilly, he did not suffer jar Injury as they are prone to on uneven turf.

Yet, every cloud etc etc AS he couldn't regain the momentum In time, the handicapper yesterday had to adjust his Mark accordingly for a no place. This means tomorrow he's actually the lowest weight In the field at 8 stone 10 lb.... the highest contender takes 9 stone 12 lb. He also teams up with apprenticeship Jockey Jason Hart and Ted's Brother likes this jockey and responds when asked by him.

Due to his last performance, or lack of It, I should say, Ted goes off on the market at 20/1.... I will be taking advantage of these generous odds, In fact, It'd be rude not to.

Ted's Brother 5.10 Ayr tomorrow

eta... Burnhope 3 rd Yesterday was heading to the line clear.... as he approached the final furlong, his Jockey lost as stirrup or his Irons as we call them... Great recovery by Jockey Matthew Hopkins who managed to stay In the saddle... just... but It cost Burnie Boy the race.

Fazza goes In the 17.20 at York tomorrow

He's been out of action for a while, It's a large field and he's been drawn In the car park, but he does like York...

Jockey report shows Ted's Brother tried to duck under the starting gate at the start which saw him run a lack lustre race. yet, It was In fairness a highly competitive race with big prize money. He was just outclassed... He's got to stop this... he banged his head badly a couple of months ago doing the same thing. Naughty boy Ted.

Tuesday –

Littlemissparton has been declared to run at Newcastle In the one mile maiden.

Wednesday–

Penalty Scorer has an entry at Kempton In the five furlong 0-60 nursery handicap.

Come on boys and girls... you have just a few weeks now before we rough you up for the winter where you can put your hooves up, grow your coat and lark about In the fields to your hearts content, while enjoying your own nice warm stable........ at our expense !!!

Littlemissparton goes In the 2.30 at Newcastle tomorrow

I'm not hopeful here... This Is a Maiden Fillies race... This means she's just 2 years old and she's unraced. This Is her maiden outing as are all entrants, thus absolutely no form to go by,

Really she's going for a gallop, a day out and a lark about In the lorry with some other horses. We have absolutely no Idea what she can do. She could even do a ' Mad Moose' and refuse to race.

Just as long as she has a nice day out with other horses and comes home safe.. we don't care... but tomorrow will give us an Idea of how she performs In a large field of entrants.

Well, we wern't hopeful but she came 9th and It was a large field of Maiden Fillies. The good news Is, she went In the stalls without fuss and exited well when the gates opened.

She ran game enough so It seems she knows what she's supposed to do.

This was her first outing. All new 2 years old must compete In and finish 3 races to qualify for the BHA. After their first 3 races, the handicapper awards the horse their Mark. The lower the Mark awarded means the less weight they'll carry on their 4th Handicap race,

Now, If I were to remotely suggest that Jockey's are Instructed to hold the horse back for the first 3 races so they are unplaced to get a lower Mark, that would be just libel.

:sneaky::sneaky::wah:

GOLD SHOW- going to do some faster bits of work this week and then start

looking for a suitable race on the flat before going jumping.EDWIN

FAZZA- Came out of York bouncing and will look for another race before

finishing off for the season.EDWIN

BLUE MAISEY- I have left Redcar alone and she will instead go to

Pontefract on Monday.EDWIN

HARRY BOSCH - just finalising plans for Newmarket on Friday in the

Varsity Horse Race.

BURNHOPE- He has come out his last race fine after the unfortunate

stumble which cost him the race and I will be looking to turn him out

fairly quickly should we have good ground or on the aw. SCOTT

PICENO- He is back to his best and working very well. Looking at a few

races including a 0-85 at catterick at the end of the month. SCOTT

TED’S BROTHER- He has an entry for Catterick on Saturday. I will see

what the race looks like nearer declaration time tomorrow before

deciding if he runs. RICHARD

PENALTY SCORER- She has an entry at Bath on Sunday. I will have a closer

look at the race nearer declaration time. RICHARD

LITTLEMISSPARTON- She had a lovely introduction to the race course

yesterday at Newcastle. Ian Brennan said she had a lovely attitude and

will improve massively for this run. She had a good blow after the race

and she is very tired this morning. I will give her a few days rest and

take it from there. OLLIE

Teds Brother has been DECLARED to run at Catterick on Saturday 18th

October In the seven furlong handicap & Jacob Butterfield rides

Let's see If he can finish the race without stumbling on uneven turf or banging his head again In the stalls.

Updates from the boss.

On Tuesday Littlemissparton also made her debut in the ************ colours when she ran at Newcastle in the one mile maiden where Ian Brennan rode. Walking round the parade ring Littlemissparton was taking everything in her stride and was very professional. Her attitude on the course was the same and as she was loaded into the stalls and as they opened, Littlemissparton was soon into her stride. The leaders went off at a good pace and Ian settled the horse towards the rear of the field and they were still on the bridle as the field approached the half way marker in the race. Several of the other jockeys were already pushing and shoving their horses along and it was only until another furlong that Ian got to work on Littlemissparton and she had to be pushed along. The leaders had gone beyond recall but this race was all about the horse enjoying the experience. After passing a few of her rivals Ian allowed her to finish the race on the bridle. Unsaddling the horse was having a good blow, Ian said he was very pleased with her run and she had learnt a lot from the experience, and there was plenty to work with next year when she has strengthened up some more.

Teds Brother ran at Catterick on Saturday where Jacob Butterfield took the ride over seven furlongs. From the off the pace was a good one and Teds Brother was settled in midfield as the field went down the back straight. As the field approached the turn he had dropped back towards the rear of the field on the inside against the rail but was still travelling comfortably. However as the field made the turn the horse directly in front of him began to drop back and Teds Brother was slightly hampered by this manoeuvre and had to be pulled back by Jacob losing some momentum. Turning into the straight the leaders headed to the stand side where the going is better when the ground is soft at Catterick which left Teds Brother in the centre of the course. A the field made their way inside the final two furlongs Teds Brother began to make some headway in an attempted to get into a challenging position. Three horses had gone away from the rest of the field. Stuck on the worst of the ground, having been hampered and with the horse getting tired Jacob allowed Teds Brother to finish in mid division.

Penalty Scorer has been DECLARED to run at Wolverhampton on Saturday

25th October In the five furlong nursery & Neil Farley rides

Blue Maisey Declared for Doncaster Friday

Her chances are not helped by a poor draw , ground should be ok ,

Oscar Namechange;1466726 wrote:

Blue Maisey Declared for Doncaster Friday

Her chances are not helped by a poor draw , ground should be ok ,


Drawn In the Car Park.... Finished In the Car Park..... Last ... nope, she didn't like that.

Oscar Namechange;1466726 wrote: Penalty Scorer has been DECLARED to run at Wolverhampton on Saturday

25th October In the five furlong nursery & Neil Farley rides

[ ,


4 th

Penalty Scorer declared at Redcar tomorrow , Duran Fentiman rides

Piceno Declared at Catterick Tuesday 7furlong , Luke Morris rides

Oscar Namechange;1466776 wrote: Penalty Scorer declared at Redcar tomorrow , Duran Fentiman rides

Piceno Declared at Catterick Tuesday 7furlong , Luke Morris rides


7th and 9th

Ted's Brother lines up n the 3.30 at Nottingham tomorrow . Drawn In the car park

13 th

Teds Brother has been DECLARED to run at Newmarket on Saturday 1st

November In the seven furlong handicap & Jacob Butterfield rides

It's actually with pleasure that I close this thread for the year.

Yesterday was pay out day and all the wins and places were calculated for us owners for the Flat season and paid Into our bank account.

The horses will now be roughed up over winter until the Flat season next year. They are allowed to grow their coats and enjoy winter In the comfort of their stables with their trainers and grooms. They'll get to lark about In the fields and rest up.

Penalty Scorer however will continue to race through winter on all weather tracks.