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AussiePam;1241875 wrote: I agree, but it's obviously okay under TOS if you express the bigoted visceral hatred of America in a grammatically correct, amiable even avuncular way.


Actually it is AP, which is why I tend to avoid these threads. WE have an ignore function. I generally don't need it, I just read past folks that I know have an agenda. I generally say my piece in these types of threads and then don't bother returning because I know the outcome of them. BM lured me back because he tends to not get off on crapping on us, but rather seems to have a genuine interest from time to time.:-6

flopstock;1241908 wrote: Actually it is AP, which is why I tend to avoid these threads. WE have an ignore function. I generally don't need it, I just read past folks that I know have an agenda. I generally say my piece in these types of threads and then don't bother returning because I know the outcome of them. BM lured me back because he tends to not get off on crapping on us, but rather seems to have a genuine interest from time to time.:-6


What you should do is start a thread entitled something like "the English are a bunch of tossers and refuse to face up to the fact they are no longer a world power thread" . It could be quite entertaining. Mind you I'm not sure if tosser means the same in american slang as it does in english but I'm sure you get the gist of it. Just don't tell anyone I suggested the title:sneaky:

spot;1241832 wrote: I don't believe I ever suggested anyone was. Exactly..... So why insist that some-one or something should be held accountable for 9/11? And why post the question on the 8th anniversary of 9/11 when you have 364 days to debate this?

As oppossed to the US, Bombs and terrorist attacks in Britian was pretty much the norm so do you think that we should have been better prepared? After all, we are old hands at terrorist attacks, the US were not.

I watched a documentary last night that said that Bush did actually give the order to Intercept and shoot down. He was apparently over-ruled due to the sketchy details that were coming through. They did not want to risk one massive mistake of judgement and shoot down several passenger jets over built-up area's. That is perfectly understandable to most level minded people.

oscar;1241919 wrote: [QUOTE=spot;1241832][QUOTE=oscar;1241829]I decline the offer on the basis that I do not believe any-one is accountable for IRA or Al-Qaeda bombs in London.I don't believe I ever suggested anyone was.[/QUOTE]Exactly..... So why insist that some-one or something should be held accountable for 9/11?[/QUOTE]Because in that instance I do believe a group of people within the White House Administration were.

oscar wrote: I watched a documentary last night that said that Bush did actually give the order to Intercept and shoot down.What matters is the quality of the source they were reporting. What was the source? How much reliance can be placed on it? Where's it documented? There's more claims out there than there are grains of sand on a very long sandy beach at low tide.

spot;1242020 wrote: Because in that instance I do believe a group of people within the White House Administration were.

What matters is the quality of the source they were reporting. What was the source? How much reliance can be placed on it? Where's it documented? There's more claims out there than there are grains of sand on a very long sandy beach at low tide.
Then perhaps you are guilty of selective viewing and selective reading once more. What is the point of my trying to find a link and posting it? You will simply dismiss it as Propoganda.

I do not have a closed mind on 9/11 but from what I saw last night, there was enough explained to show that had they have got it wrong, it would have been an astronomical error of judgement with probably more deaths than 9/11. Had Bush not have been over-ruled to intercept ( Believing the jets would fly out of built up area's ) and the deaths of many innocent people had been incurred, you would be rubbing your hands in glee that they got it wrong and calling for an enquirey into that one.

To my knowledge.... there has never been a case of the US military shooting down a passenger jet due to It been hi-jacked. Why on earth, should they have shot them down? And what if the sketchy reports coming through were Indeed erroneous? The safety and lives of the people on a passenger jet in circumstances such as that are paramount as well qas people on the ground. As the US had never had a 9/11... how on earth were they suppossed to decide to guess the out-come and risk all those passengers? In fact, the news that Bush did Indeed order Intercept and shoot down, shows the US were very aware of possible strikes.

Ask yourself what would happen if this was London we were talking about? UI sense your views are bigoted and just plain old Anti-American ranting again.

spot;1240692 wrote: It's not a great country in the slightest, it's a corrupt rogue state regardless of who's running the White House. Americans burying their heads simply because patriotism makes them feel so good is why the problem happened in the first place.


So we brought this on ourselves right? Am I misunderstanding you completely? Please feel free to talk your way out of this one and come up with some more mindless banter.

Glad to know I'm corrupt and that because I'm patriotic we deserved for our country to be attacked. Right about now I'd rather my head be in the sand than straight up my ASS

oscar;1242022 wrote: Then perhaps you are guilty of selective viewing and selective reading once more. What is the point of my trying to find a link and posting it? You will simply dismiss it as Propoganda.



I do not have a closed mind on 9/11 but from what I saw last night, there was enough explained to show that had they have got it wrong, it would have been an astronomical error of judgement with probably more deaths than 9/11. Had Bush not have been over-ruled to intercept ( Believing the jets would fly out of built up area's ) and the deaths of many innocent people had been incurred, you would be rubbing your hands in glee that they got it wrong and calling for an enquirey into that one.



To my knowledge.... there has never been a case of the US military shooting down a passenger jet due to It been hi-jacked. Why on earth, should they have shot them down? And what if the sketchy reports coming through were Indeed erroneous? The safety and lives of the people on a passenger jet in circumstances such as that are paramount as well qas people on the ground. As the US had never had a 9/11... how on earth were they suppossed to decide to guess the out-come and risk all those passengers? In fact, the news that Bush did Indeed order Intercept and shoot down, shows the US were very aware of possible strikes.



Ask yourself what would happen if this was London we were talking about? UI sense your views are bigoted and just plain old Anti-American ranting again.




Girl, just walk away..:rolleyes::wah:



You will find peace only when you either spew back exactly what he wants to hear, or just say what you want to say and walk away.



That mind you are trying to reach is closed for the duration..

flopstock;1242024 wrote:



That mind you are trying to reach is closed for the duration..


Was it ever open? Nope.

almostfamous;1242023 wrote: So we brought this on ourselves right? Am I misunderstanding you completely? Please feel free to talk your way out of this one and come up with some more mindless banter.

Glad to know I'm corrupt and that because I'm patriotic we deserved for our country to be attacked. Right about now I'd rather my head be in the sand than straight up my ASS


Jesus Christ... we are dealing with one of the most corrupt Governments at present that Britain has ever seen and Spot calls America Corrupt ???????

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

spot;1242020 wrote: Because in that instance I do believe a group of people within the White House Administration were.

What matters is the quality of the source they were reporting. What was the source? How much reliance can be placed on it? Where's it documented? There's more claims out there than there are grains of sand on a very long sandy beach at low tide.


So what about the 911 report? Can you prove that any of the factual content in there is wrong? If so do so. You're good at asking for authoritative sources so what is your objection to the 911 commission report which makes clear there was no conspiracy or deliberate plan to let those planes crash. If you are going to insist there was then come up with something more substantive than you have been. You are the one making the assertion there was a conspiracy and people should be held to account.

Because in that instance I do believe a group of people within the White House Administration were.


Who are they, why them, and what exactly did they do and where is your evidence?

gmc;1242028 wrote: So what about the 911 report?I saw your post this morning, I've been out all day, it's a great post and I'm going to answer it as fully as I can. You can understand that it'll take a few hours though.

I knew you would have absolutely no response to what I said because I spoke the truth, as usual.

One thing about you Spot... you're completely predictable :wah:

oscar;1242022 wrote: To my knowledge.... there has never been a case of the US military shooting down a passenger jet due to It been hi-jacked. I've not ever suggested there was. I've shown the regular process, interception by military aircraft, more than once a week for years before 9/11. The lack of response on the day was a the fighters not taking off and closing on the planes in flight as dictated by the Order I linked to and as done week in week out up until then.

As to the meaning of "interception", I'll cover that when I answer gmc because he's quoted from the Report where NORAD's wording went all weaselly.

spot;1242033 wrote: I've not ever suggested there was. I've shown the regular process, interception by military aircraft, more than once a week for years before 9/11. The lack of response on the day was a the fighters not taking off and closing on the planes in flight as dictated by the Order I linked to and as done week in week out up until then.

As to the meaning of "interception", I'll cover that when I answer gmc because he's quoted from the Report where NORAD's wording went all weaselly.


Bush On 9/11: Moment To Moment

Sept. 11, 2002



No president since Abraham Lincoln has seen such horrific loss of life in a war on American soil. No president since James Madison, nearly 200 years ago, has seen the nation’s capital city successfully attacked. But, one year ago, President George W. Bush was thrown into the first great crisis of the 21st century.

This is the president’s story of September 11th and the week America went to war. 60 Minutes II spent two hours with Mr. Bush, one, on Air Force One and another in the Oval Office last week. Even after a year, the president is still moved, sometimes to the point of tears, when he remembers Sept. 11.

“I knew, the farther we get away from Sept.11, the more likely it is for some around the world to forget the mission, but not me, Mr. Bush says during the Air Force One interview. “Not me. I made the pledge to myself and to people that I’m not going to forget what happened on Sept. 11. So long as I’m president, we will pursue the killers and bring them to justice. We owe that to those who have lost their lives.

The memories come back sharp and clear on Air Force One, where Pelley joined the president for a recent trip across country. 60 Minutes II wanted to talk to him there because that is where he spent the first hours after the attack.

Not since Lyndon Johnson was sworn in on Air Force One has the airplane been so central to America in a crisis.

For President Bush, Sept. 11 2001, started with the usual routine. Before dawn, the president was on his four-mile run. It was just before 6 a.m. and, at the same moment, another man was on the move: Mohammad Atta. Two hours later, as Mr. Bush drove to an elementary school, hijackers on four planes were murdering the flight crews and turning the airliners east. As the motorcade neared the school at 8:45 a.m., jet engines echoed in Manhattan.

Atta plunged the 767 jumbo jet into World Trade Center Tower One.

“I thought it was an accident, says Mr. Bush. “I thought it was a pilot error. I thought that some foolish soul had gotten lost and - and made a terrible mistake.

Mr. Bush was told about the first plane just before sitting down with a class of second graders. He was watching a reading drill when, just after nine, United Flight 175 exploded into the second tower. There was the sudden realization that what had seemed like a terrible mistake was a coordinated attack.

Back in the Florida classroom, press secretary Ari Fleischer got the news on his pager. The president’s chief-of-staff, Andy Card stepped in.

“A second plane hit the second tower; America is under attack, Card told the president

When he said those words, what did he see in the President’s face?

“I saw him coming to recognition of what I had said, Card recalls. “I think he understood that he was going to have to take command as commander-in-chief, not just as president.

What was going through Bush’s mind when he heard the news?

“We’re at war and somebody has dared attack us and we’re going to do something about it, Mr. Bush recalls. “I realized I was in a unique setting to receive a message that somebody attacked us, and I was looking at these little children and all of the sudden we were at war. I can remember noticing the press pool and the press corps beginning to get the calls and seeing the look on their face. And it became evident that we were, you know, that the world had changed.

Mr. Bush walked into a classroom set up with a secure phone. He called the vice president, pulling the phone cord tight as he spun to see the attack on TV. Then he grabbed a legal pad and quickly wrote his first words to the nation.

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is a difficult moment for America, he said in the speech. “Today, we’ve had a national tragedy.

It was 9:30 a.m. As he spoke, Mr. Bush didn’t know that two more hijacked jets were streaking toward Washington. Vice Pesident Dick Cheney was in his office at the White House when a Secret Service agent ran in.

“He said to me, ‘Sir, we have to leave immediately’ and grabbed, put a hand on my belt, another hand on my shoulder and propelled me out the door of my office, Cheney recalls. “I’m not sure how they do it, but they sort of levitate you down the hallway, you move very fast.

“There wasn’t a lot of time for chitchat, you know, with the vice president, says Secret Service Director Brian Stafford, who was in his command center ordering the round-up of top officials and the First Family. He felt that he had only minutes to work with. “We knew there were unidentified planes tracking in our direction, he says.

Cheney was rushed deep under the White House into a bunker called the Presidential Emergency Operations Center. It was built for war, and this was it. On her way down, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice called Mr. Bush.

“It was brief because I was being pushed to get off the phone and get out of the West Wing, says Rice. “They were hurrying me off the phone with the president and I just said, he said, ‘I’m coming back’ and we said ‘Mr. President that may not be wise.’ I remember stopping briefly to call my family, my aunt and uncle in Alabama and say, ‘I’m fine. You have to tell everybody that I’m fine’ but then settling into trying to deal with the enormity of that moment, and in the first few hours, I think the thing that was on everybody’s mind was how many more planes are coming.

The Capitol was evacuated. And for the first time ever, the Secret Service executed the emergency plan to ensure the presidential line of succession. Agents swept up the 15 officials who stood to become president if the others were killed. They wanted to move Vice President Cheney, fearing he was in danger even in the bunker. But Cheney says when he heard the other officials were safe, he decided to stay at the White House, no matter what.

“It’s important to emphasize it's not personal, you don’t think of it in personal terms, you’ve got a professional job to do, says Cheney.

Cheney was joined by transportation secretary Norm Mineta who remembers hearing the FAA counting down the hijacked jets closing in on the capital.

Says Mineta: “Someone came in and said ‘Mr. Vice president there’s a plane 50 miles out,’ then he came in and said ‘Its now 10 miles out, we don’t know where it is exactly, but it’s coming in low and fast.’

It was American Flight 77. At 9:38 a.m., it exploded into the Pentagon, the first successful attack on Washington since the War of 1812.

As the Pentagon burned, Mr. Bush’s limousine sped toward Air Force One in Florida. At that moment, United Flight 93 - the last hijacked plane - was taking dead aim at Washington. At the White House, the staff was in the West Wing cafeteria, watching on TV. Press Secretary Jennifer Millerwise was in the crowd when the order came to evacuate.

“I no sooner walked outside when someone from the Secret Service yelled ‘Women drop your heels and run, drop your heels and run,’ and suddenly the gates that never open except for authorized vehicles just opened and the whole White House just flooded out, she recalls.

In Florida, as Mr. Bush boarded Air Force One, he was overheard telling a Secret Service agent “Be sure to get the First Lady and my daughters protected. At 9:57 a.m., Air Force One thundered down the runway, blasting smoke and dust in a full -hrust take off. Communications Director Dan Bartlett was on board.

“It was like a rocket, he remembers. “For a good ten minutes, the plane was going almost straight up.

At the same moment, 56 minutes after it was hit, World Trade Center Tower Two began to falter, then cascade in an incomprehensible avalanche of steel, concrete and human lives.

“Someone said to me, ‘Look at that’ I remember that, ‘Look at that’ and I looked up and I saw and I just remember a cloud of dust and smoke and the horror of that moment, recalls Rice of the TV newscast.

She also felt something in her gut: “That we’ve lost a lot of Americans and that eventually we would get these people. I felt the anger. Of course I felt the anger.

Down in the bunker, Cheney was trying to figure out how many hijacked planes there were. Officials feared there could be as many as 11.

As the planes track toward Washington, a discussion begins about whether to shoot them down. “I discussed it with the president, Cheney recalls. “‘Are we prepared to order our aircraft to shoot down these airliners that have been hijacked?’ He said yes.

“It was my advice. It was his decision, says Cheney.

“That’s a sobering moment to order your own combat aircraft to shoot down your own civilian aircraft, says Bush. “But it was an easy decision to make given the – given the fact that we had learned that a commercial aircraft was being used as a weapon. I say easy decision, it was, I didn’t hesitate, let me put it that way. I knew what had to be done.

The passengers on United Flight 93 also knew what had to be done. They fought for control and sacrificed themselves in a Pennsylvania meadow. The flight was 15 minutes from Washington.

“Clearly, the terrorists were trying to take out as many symbols of government as they could: the Pentagon, perhaps the Capitol, perhaps the White House. These people saved us not only physically but they saved us psychologically and symbolically in a very important way, too, says Rice.

Meanwhile, Tower One was weakening. It had stood for an hour and 43 minutes. At 10:29 a.m., it buckled in a mirror image of the collapse of its twin.

The image that went round the world reached the First Lady in a secure location somewhere in Washington. “I was horrified, she says. “I thought, ‘Dear God, protect as many citizens as you can.’ It was a nightmare.

By 10:30 a.m., America’s largest city was devastated, its military headquarters were burning. Air force One turned west along the Gulf Coast.

“I can remember sitting right here in this office thinking about the consequences of what had taken place and realizing it was the defining moment in the history of the United States, says President Bush. “I didn’t need any legal briefs, I didn’t need any consultations, I knew we were at war.

Mr. Bush says the first hours were frustrating. He watched the horrifying pictures, but the TV signal was breaking up. His calls to Cheney were cutting out. Mr. Bush says he pounded his desk shouting, “This is inexcusable; get me the vice president.

“I was trying to clear the fog of war, and there is a fog of war, says the president. "Information was just flying from all directions.

Chief of staff Card brought in the reports. There was word Camp David had been hit. A jet was thought to be targeting Mr. Bush’s ranch.

“I remember hearing that the State Department might have been hit, or that the White House had a fire in it. So we were hearing lots of different information, says Card.

They also feared that Air Force One itself was a target. Cheney told the president there was a credible threat against the plane. Using the code name for Air Force One, Mr. Bush told an aide, “Angel is next. The threat was passed to presidential pilot Colonel Mark Tillman.

“It was serious before that but now it is -no longer is it a time to get the president home, Tillman says. “We actually have to consider everything we say, everything we do could be intercepted, and we have to make sure that no one knows what our position is.

Tillman asked for an armed guard at his cockpit door while Secret Service agents double-checked the identity of everyone on board. The crew reviewed the emergency evacuation plan. Then came a warning from air traffic control – a suspect airliner was dead ahead.

“Coming out of Sarasota there was one call that said there was an airliner off our nose that they did not have contact with, Tillman remembers.

Tillman took evasive action, pulling his plane high above normal traffic. They were on course for Washington, but by now no one thought that was a good idea, except the president.

“I wanted to come back to Washington, but the circumstances were such that it was just impossible for the Secret Service or the national security team to clear the way for Air Force One to come back, says Bush.

So Air Force One set course for an underground command center in Nebraska. Back in Washington, the president’s closest advisor, Karen Hughes, heard about the threat to the plane and placed a call to Mr. Bush.

“And the military operator came back to me and in a voice that, to me, sounded very shaken said, ‘Ma’am, I’m sorry, we can’t reach Air Force One.’ Hughes recalls. Hughes was out of the White House during the attacks. When she came back, it was a place she didn’t recognize.

“There were either military, or maybe Secret Service, dressed all in black, holding machine guns as, as we drove up. And I never expected to see something like that in, in our nation's capital, says Hughes.

When she walked into the White House, no one was inside. “I knew it was a day that you didn't want to surprise anybody, and so I yelled, ‘Hello?’ and two, again, kind of SWAT team members came running, running through the, the hall with, again, guns drawn, and then took me to, to the location where I met the vice president.

On Air Force One, Col. Tillman had a problem. He needed to hide the most visible plane in the world, a 747 longer than the White House itself. He didn’t want to use his radio, because the hijackers could be listening to air traffic control. So he called air traffic control on the telephone.

“We actually didn't tell them our destination or what directions we were heading, says Tillman. “We, we basically just talked to 'em and said, 'OK, fine, we have no clearance at this time, we are just going to fly across the United States.'

Controllers passed Air Force One from one sector to another, warning each other to keep the route secret.

“OK, where’s he going? one tower radioed to another.

“Just watch him, a second tower responded. “Don’t question him where’s he's going. Just work him and watch him, there’s no flight plan in and we’re not going to put anything in. Ok, sir?

Air Force One ordered a fighter escort, and air traffic control radioed back: “Air Force One, got two F-16s at about your 10 o’clock position.

“The staff, and the president and us, were filed out along the outside hallway of his presidential cabin there and looking out the windows, says Bartlett. “And the president gives them a signal of salute, and the pilot kind of tips his wing, and fades off and backs into formation.

The men in the F-16s were Shane Brotherton and Randy Roberts, from the Texas Air National Guard. Their mission was so secret their commander wouldn’t tell them where they were going.

“He just said, 'You’ll know when you see it,' and that was my first clue, I didn’t have any idea what we were going up until that point, says Brotherton. He knew when he saw it.

“We, we were trying to keep an 80-mile bubble, bubble around Air Force One, and we'd investigate anything that was within 80 miles, says Roberts.

Bush says he was not worried about the safety of the people on this aircraft, or for his own safety: “I looked out the airplane and saw two F-16s on each wing. It was going to have to be a pretty good pilot to get us.

We now know that the threat to Air Force One was part of the fog of war, a false alarm. But it had a powerful effect at the time. Some wondered, with the president out of sight, was he still running the government? He hadn’t appeared after the attack on Washington. Mr. Bush was clearly worried about it. At one point he was overheard saying, “The American people want to know where their dang president is. The staff considered an address to the nation by phone but instead Mr. Bush ordered Air Force One to land somewhere within 30 minutes so he could appear on TV. At 11:45 a.m., they landed at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana.

“The resolve of our great nation is being tested. But make no mistake, we will show the world that we will pass this test. God bless, Bush said to the nation from Barksdale.

At Barksdale, the Secret Service believed the situation in Washington was still unsafe. So the plane continued on to Nebraska, to the command center where Mr. Bush would be secure and have all the communications gear he needed to run the government. Aboard Air Force One, Mr. Bush had a job for press secretary Fleischer.

“The president asked me to make sure that I took down everything that was said. I think he wanted to make certain that a record existed, says Fleischer

Fleischer’s notes capture Mr. Bush’s language, plain and unguarded. To the vice president he said: “We’re at war, Dick, we’re going to find out who did this and kick their ass. Another time, Mr. Bush said, “We’re not going to have any slap-on-the-wrist crap this time.

The President adds, “I can remember telling the Secretary of Defense, I said, ‘We’re going to find out who did this and then Mr. Secretary, you and Dick Myers,’ who we just named as chairman of the joint chiefs, ‘are going to go get them.’

By 3 p.m., Air Force One touched down at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska. Mr. Bush and his team were herded into a small brick hut that gave no hint of what they would find below.

At the bottom of the stairs was the U.S. Strategic Command Underground Command Center. It was built to transmit a president’s order to go to nuclear war. But when Mr. Bush walked in, the battle staff was watching the skies over the United States. Many airplanes had still not landed. After a short briefing, Mr. Bush and Card were taken to a teleconference center which connected them to the White House, the Pentagon, the FBI and the CIA. Mr. Bush had a question for his CIA Director George Tenent.

According to Rice, Bush asked Tenent who had done this. Rice recalls that Tenent answered: “Sir, I believe its al Qaeda. We’re doing the assessment but it looks like, it feels like, it smells like al Qaeda.

The evidence would build. FBI Director Robert Mueller says that an essential clue came from one of the hijacked planes before it crashed.

A flight attendant on American Flight 11, Amy Sweeney, had the presence of mind to call her office as the plane was hijacked and give them the seat numbers of the hijackers. “That was the first piece of hard evidence. We could then go to the manifest, find out who was sitting in those seats and immediately conduct an investigation of those individuals, as opposed to taking all the passengers on the plane and going through a process of elimination, says Mueller.

In Nebraska, the White House staff was preparing for an address to the nation from the Air Force bunker, but by then the president had had enough. He decided to come back.

“At one point, he said he didn’t want any tinhorn terrorist keeping him out of Washington, Fleischer says. “That verbatim.

On board, he was already thinking of issuing an ultimatum to the world: “I had time to think and a couple of thoughts emerged. One was that you're guilty if you harbor a terrorist, because I knew these terrorists like al-Qaeda liked to prey on weak government and weak people. The other thought that came was the opportunity to fashion a vast coalition of countries that would either be with us or with the terrorists.

As Air Force One sped east, the last casualty of the attack on America collapsed, one of the nation’s worst days wore into evening. At the World Trade Center, 2,801 were killed; at the Pentagon, 184; and in Pennsylvania 40. Altogether, there were 3,025 dead.

“Anybody who would attack America the way they did, anybody who would take innocent life the way they did, anybody who's so devious, is evil, Bush said recently.

Mr. Bush would soon see that evil face to face. After arriving in Washington, he boarded his helicopter and flew past the Pentagon on the way to the White House.

Was there a time when he was afraid that there might not be a White House to return to? “I don’t remember thinking about whether or not the White House would have been obliterated," he recalls. "I think I might have thought they took their best shot, and now it was time for us to take our best shot.

Mr. Bush arrived back at the White House nine hours after the attacks. His next step was an address to the nation. Karen Hughes and her staff were already working on the speech.

“He decided that the primary tone he wanted to strike that night was reassurance, remembers Hughes. “We had to show resolve, we had to reassure people, we had to let them know that we would be OK.

Just off the Oval Office, Mr. Bush added the words that would become known as the Bush Doctrine - no distinction between terrorists and those who harbor them. The staff wanted to add a declaration of war but Mr. Bush didn’t think the American people wanted to hear it that night and he was emphatic about that.

He prepared to say it from the same desk where Franklin Roosevelt first heard the news of Pearl Harbor. Now Bush was commander in chief. Eighty million Americans were watching.

“Today our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts, he said from the Oval Office that night.

The Oval Office speech came at the end of the bloodiest day in American history since the Civil War. Before he walked to the White House residence for the night, Mr. Bush dictated these words for the White House daily log: “The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today. We think it's Osama bin Laden.

almostfamous;1242032 wrote: I knew you would have absolutely no response to what I said because I spoke the truth, as usual.

One thing about you Spot... you're completely predictable :wah:


You posted your question sixteen minutes before that. I hadn't even read it before you "knew I would have absolutely no response to what you said".

What you posted was

So we brought this on ourselves right? Am I misunderstanding you completely? Please feel free to talk your way out of this one and come up with some more mindless banter.

Glad to know I'm corrupt and that because I'm patriotic we deserved for our country to be attacked. Right about now I'd rather my head be in the sand than straight up my ASS


The hijackings happened because a group in the Middle East designed it and ran it. The planes reached their targets because there was no adequate military response on the day. No Americans have ever been disciplined for that lack of standard response. My question throughout the thread is why so few Americans will even discuss why those gross lapses have been left unaccounted for.

What, out of that, sounds like "you brought this on yourselves"? You're simply avoiding the topic by inventing ones you'd rather answer.

oscar;1242038 wrote: Bush On 9/11: Moment To Moment

Sept. 11, 2002

Very funny oscar. Which point is that post trying to address and which paragraph in the post addresses it? If I read it from start to finish I'll still have no idea what you think you've told me.

spot;1242050 wrote: Very funny oscar. Which point is that post trying to address and which paragraph in the post addresses it? If I read it from start to finish I'll still have no idea what you think you've told me. That's because your bigoted view only allows you to see what you want to see. If you need me to explain it to you, then I give up.

posted by spot

The hijackings happened because a group in the Middle East designed it and ran it. The planes reached their targets because there was no adequate military response on the day. No Americans have ever been disciplined for that lack of standard response. My question throughout the thread is why so few Americans will even discuss why those gross lapses have been left unaccounted for.




Because they are perhaps too polite and perhaps because the american vernacular does not contain words adequate to explain their disagreement with such conspiracy theories whereas we have words like, cobblers, balderdash, poppycock, havers, gobbledegook which have a delightful onomatopoeic quality to them and we are less inhibited in their use. You are the one making the assertion there were such lapses and that they have been whitewashed over. Prove it as you have said you will.

gmc;1242059 wrote: posted by spot



Because they are perhaps too polite and perhaps because the american vernacular does not contain words adequate to explain their disagreement with such conspiracy theories whereas we have words like, cobblers, balderdash, poppycock, havers, gobbledegook which have a delightful onomatopoeic quality to them and we are less inhibited in their use. You are the one making the assertion there were such lapses and that they have been whitewashed over. Prove it as you have said you will.
Or BOLLOCKS is another good word.

oscar;1242056 wrote: That's because your bigoted view only allows you to see what you want to see. If you need me to explain it to you, then I give up.


You posted 4,000 words of copy/pasted text there, you do know that do you?

That's a half hour's reading and I still don't know which bit you think is relevant to which point. A link and a paragraph quote would have been so much easier and meaningful for both of us.

spot;1242044 wrote: You posted your question sixteen minutes before that. I hadn't even read it before you "knew I would have absolutely no response to what you said".


fine.

spot;1242044 wrote: What you posted was



The hijackings happened because a group in the Middle East designed it and ran it. The planes reached their targets because there was no adequate military response on the day. No Americans have ever been disciplined for that lack of standard response. My question throughout the thread is why so few Americans will even discuss why those gross lapses have been left unaccounted for.

What, out of that, sounds like "you brought this on yourselves"? You're simply avoiding the topic by inventing ones you'd rather answer.


You said:

"It's not a great country in the slightest, it's a corrupt rogue state regardless of who's running the White House."

Regardless of who is running the White house... meaning the people of America?

"Americans burying their heads simply because patriotism makes them feel so good is why the problem happened in the first place."

I'm not seeing how I took anything away from that but what it was.

We bury our heads because being patriotic makes us feel good and it's why it happened to being with.

Didn't take a fkn genius to break that one down.



In response to your initial post... I see no refusal to look at anything squarely. We, as a people, could spend a lifetime trying to contact our government and get an explanation for your hyped up conspiracy theory and be left just as clueless as we were to begin with.

If someone were to come forward, and I mean forward (having solid proof), and something of great secrecy was unveiled then yes we might have been able to do something about it as a nation.

I'm not a Bush fan anymore than most I know but he was a fkn babblling idiot and any verbal discrepencies on his part, I considered just that, babble.

As for the people behind him that are in actuality the ones running the president and our country in the same breath.... I've still yet to see any solid proof that they knew this would happen. Of course, I feel that a country that was so great in power like America would eventually be hit anyway. Be it due to jealousy, to knock us off a high horse or out of outright ignorance and undue hatred.

It still doesn't mean, we as a people - those innocent people that were killed, the families that were affected, and those compassionate like myself - deserved to experience what happened that grave day.

If we were guilty at the time of anything it would have been of being a trusting nation and unprejudiced against foreigners coming and going out of our country or entering into it and staying.

Had we locked down our ports without firm reasoning where would be now then? Sure, maybe we could have avoided the attacks, that time. But what would it have been said about our nation?

almostfamous;1242063 wrote: You said:

"It's not a great country in the slightest, it's a corrupt rogue state regardless of who's running the White House."

Regardless of who is running the White house... meaning the people of America?

No, meaning the White House administration of the day, regardless of which party is running the White House at that given moment. Name me a White House administration and I'll summarize for you what they did that deserves the label "corrupt rogue state". I'd be grateful if you avoided Jimmy Carter's.

I rather liked the rest of your post.

:yh_rotflgmc;1242059 wrote: posted by spot





Because they are perhaps too polite and perhaps because the american vernacular does not contain words adequate to explain their disagreement with such conspiracy theories whereas we have words like, cobblers, balderdash, poppycock, havers, gobbledegook which have a delightful onomatopoeic quality to them and we are less inhibited in their use. You are the one making the assertion there were such lapses and that they have been whitewashed over. Prove it as you have said you will.
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

spot;1242067 wrote: No, meaning the White House administration of the day, regardless of which party is running the White House at that given moment. Name me a White House administration and I'll summarize for you what they did that deserves the label "corrupt rogue state". I'd be grateful if you avoided Jimmy Carter's.

I rather liked the rest of your post. You include JFK in that do you?

Loin pork chops,

Mushrooms, tomatoe and garlic roasted,

Potatoe wedges

Green beans.



Ooooops.... Sorry, wrong thread.

spot;1242067 wrote: No, meaning the White House administration of the day, regardless of which party is running the White House at that given moment. Name me a White House administration and I'll summarize for you what they did that deserves the label "corrupt rogue state". I'd be grateful if you avoided Jimmy Carter's.




I don't really deem it necessary to name any administration. All government is corrupt in some form or fashion. Again, something that doesn't take a fkn genius to comprehend and take note of.

I choose not to chase my tail on this one but thanks for the offer.

oscar;1242072 wrote: You include JFK in that do you?


In spades.

is it really necessary to go back that far before you find one you think I might not be able to justify though?

I was not going to revisit this thread but I'd like to post a couple of facts.

Since 9/11 over 90 planned terrorist attacks on the USA soil have been thwarted.

After 9/11 and President Bush's promise to get those that were responsible for the attacks, Bush had a 90% approval rating. 90%! That is the highest approval rating any president has ever attained.

You know me spot...I know what I've seen, read, heard and researched...If you want links etc. look it up yourself...I'm not wasting my time on you and stupid links.

shelbell;1242087 wrote: I was not going to revisit this thread but I'd like to post a couple of facts.

Since 9/11 over 90 planned terrorist attacks on the USA soil have been thwarted.

After 9/11 and President Bush's promise to get those that were responsible for the attacks, Bush had a 90% approval rating. 90%! That is the highest approval rating any president has ever attained.

You know me spot...I know what I've seen, read, heard and researched...If you want links etc. look it up yourself...I'm not wasting my time on you and stupid links.


:yh_rotfl

spot;1242086 wrote: In spades.

is it really necessary to go back that far before you find one you think I might not be able to justify though?
Yep.... I do have a good memory do I not?

AussiePam;1242184 wrote: Very wise words, Floppy.. There's still a few of us here, mainly because we've rolled our eyes and walked away. Doing that now. :rolleyes: As Spot lives very near to me, I am tempted to Invite him to meet me in the middle of a field at 3 pm Blighty time on a tuesday for a bare-knuckle fight.

spot;1242062 wrote: You posted 4,000 words of copy/pasted text there, you do know that do you?

That's a half hour's reading and I still don't know which bit you think is relevant to which point. A link and a paragraph quote would have been so much easier and meaningful for both of us. I was following in your style of copy and paste.

It's been 5 hours since I posted this. You said it would take half an hour to read.

I'm waiting Spot. :yh_think:yh_think:yh_whistl:yh_whistl:yh_wait:yh_wait

Dear Spot,

gmc asked you to prove what you had said on this thread some pages back and I have also been waiting for you to come up with some more Imformation. We would both very much appreciate It, If you would return to this thread and continue the debate.

Many thanks,

Lots of Love,

Oscar and GMC

oscar;1243498 wrote: Dear Spot,

gmc asked you to prove what you had said on this thread some pages back and I have also been waiting for you to come up with some more Imformation. We would both very much appreciate It, If you would return to this thread and continue the debate.

Many thanks,

Oscar and GMC
Indeed he did and I've not left the thread permanently, I have every intention of answering that specific post. It's a very relevant question.

Just at the moment, given the curious events of the last few days, I'm waiting for a more stable environment before I push ahead.

Next week perhaps.

spot;1243507 wrote: Indeed he did and I've not left the thread permanently, I have every intention of answering that specific post. It's a very relevant question.

Just at the moment, given the curious events of the last few days, I'm waiting for a more stable environment before I push ahead.

Next week perhaps. Why do you need a stable to reply In ? Can't you do It from your home?

oscar;1242187 wrote: As Spot lives very near to me, I am tempted to Invite him to meet me in the middle of a field at 3 pm Blighty time on a tuesday for a bare-knuckle fight.


I've got a long'un on you

Snowfire;1243520 wrote: I've got a long'un on you Pardon?

oscar;1243521 wrote: Pardon?


Snowfire wonders whether you'd consider an evening out together, just the two of you.

spot;1243522 wrote: Snowfire wonders whether you'd consider an evening out together, just the two of you.We've already been out together Spot.

I would give him marks out of 10 but I've never been any good at fractions.

oscar;1243523 wrote: We've already been out together Spot.

I would give him marks out of 10 but I've never been any good at fractions.


My heart just wasn't in it

Long'un....£100.00.

Snowfire;1243527 wrote: My heart just wasn't in it

Long'un....£100.00. It wasn't just your heart that wasn't in it.

I'd knock Spot out with one punch. :wah:

oscar;1243528 wrote: It wasn't just your heart that wasn't in it.

I'd knock Spot out with one punch. :wah:


Well you did say you were talking fractions

Snowfire;1243527 wrote: Long'un....£100.00.
Oi! No sex-trade advertising allowed!

Spot oh dear spot, oh where have you been?

Two days have gone by, since you were last seen,

we've waited with patience, for your post on this thread,

now we're beginning to wonder, if your actually dead.

oscar;1243826 wrote: Spot oh dear spot, oh where have you been?

Two days have gone by, since you were last seen,

we've waited with patience, for your post on this thread,

now we're beginning to wonder, if your actually dead.


In all fairness he did say it might be next week

Indeed he did and I've not left the thread permanently, I have every intention of answering that specific post. It's a very relevant question.

Just at the moment, given the curious events of the last few days, I'm waiting for a more stable environment before I push ahead.

Next week perhaps.




Fantasy is easier to make up than find facts.

gmc;1243828 wrote: Fantasy is easier to make up than find facts.
Let's let the dust erupt and settle, there's good reason for a delay.

I do stand by my comments and I know where I'm getting my justification from.

Nomad;1243893 wrote:


:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

gmc;1243828 wrote: In all fairness he did say it might be next week



Fantasy is easier to make up than find facts. Spot is gathering secret Imfo. He's infiltrating the CIA as we speak.

We will wait then. :wah: