ForumGarden

jimbo wrote: buddy most of my mates have paid for it and i really can understand why in amsterdam those women are soo good looking the only way the average guy could sleep with women like that is to pay


You must have a very small circle of friends, then - all of a certain sort. No offence

intended at all - some people just do that sort of thing!



"in amsterdam those women are soo good looking the only way the average guy could sleep with women like that is to pay" - they're tarts, though. why anyone

would want to "do" them, I din't know. They aren't really that good looking!

In reply to your question, i think they cheat no more than what women do, it is nothing to do with gender, i think for some people it's low self esteam, flattery or just boredom that drives people to do it.

My take on it is i treat others as i'd want to be treated myself, if someone cheated on me they'd be GONE and i wouldn't expect forgiveness if i was stupid enough to drop my drawers!!

johoman wrote: I think some men cheat because they have no character, some men cheat because they get little or no sex at home.


Why not, I wonder?

johoman wrote: If a wife refused to have sex with a husband and this goes on for a long time would the husband be cheating if he found love elsewhere."


Love, or sex?" "Why not", again?

johoman wrote: think there is no cheating if there is no or little sex in the first place. I think women stray not so much of sex or lack thereof but unment emotional needs. If the man is not having his needs met by his wife he has a very legitmate complaint. I know some women would say "to bad he married me". Marriage is not ownership and if she doesn't change her ways then she won't even have the marriage in name only. It takes TWO contributing people to make a mariage work. Johoman


AOL, sort of, to the first - certainly, to the latter.

Lulu2 wrote: I know a man who's married to a woman who has multiple sclerosis. She cannot be touched without having pain and the drugs she takes have caused some bad side-effects. She's been like this for over ten years and she depends on him for health insurance, since she has none of her own.

He's a man for whom sex is very important and he longs to have the physical closeness. Is it "cheating" if he seeks it from someone else?


Yes, undoubtably. Sorry, but facts are facts.

Lulu2 wrote: I have another friend who is married to a woman who says sex is "disgusting." She was raised in a very religious family and it's obviously worked negatively on her sexuality. They have two daughters whom he adores.


So, at least twice, she gritted her teeth & went for it in some fashion.... perhaps

*he* should use his manly wiles and wisdom to change her point of view? If God

hadn't meant, for *married couples*, etc.?



Lulu2 wrote: He has cyber sex with a woman he met on the internet and has never/will never meet in real life. Is that "cheating?"


In a way, I think so... what is "cyber sex" - wanking? Does he pay, I wonder?

Please consider the last two questions entirely rhetorical - I do not want to know!

The whole point is it's cheating, if people arrange an open marriage due to "problems" then fair play, but cheating causes hurt it's all about lies and deception.

I have friends who have had partners cheat (men and women), and it's ruined any future relationships due to trust issues.

Cheating isn't all about sex, if my partner said that he was meeting and chatting to a woman on an intimate level about our lives i'd consider that as being unfaithful even a kiss would be unacceptible to me.

Lulu2 wrote: Interestingly, the woman with MS told her husband to masturbate and close the door while we was doing it.


That'll help me remember to read the whole theread before replying... speaks

volumes, doesn't it (id accurate).

"Cheating isn't all about sex, if my partner said that he was meeting and chatting to a woman on an intimate level about our lives i'd consider that as being unfaithful even a kiss would be unacceptible to me."



AHA! That brings me back to my original question....just what exactly IS "cheating?"

This thing with the lady with MS is really sad. It is an ethical dilema. Do you take your wedding vows to the bitter end have no close relationship with anyone or do you get what you can. I guess if the good Lord gave you a high sex drive then I can't see what is wrong if you fill it. That MS lady could be more considerate of her husband (close the door and do your dirty thing is what I am hearing).

Hey, Suzeeb, please will you humour me & quote a little bit of the thing you're

replying to? I'm recalcinately old-fashioned, and don't "view threaded". I know

it could be a shortcoming.

Bill Sikes wrote: Why not, I wonder?



Love, or sex?" "Why not", again?



AOL, sort of, to the first - certainly, to the latter.


Bill- I think love-sex-intamcy (sp?) are all intertwined (again sp?). To me it does not make sense to say I love you but I don't want to share my body with you. In marraige I think love-sex-intimacy are all rolled up into one thing. Somewhere I read that marraige is supported by 3 legs: sex-values-money. Any of these legs is missing the marrage has a poor shance of success. Each one of these legs has mulitpe meanings i.e.: money how to spend, how much to make, how much to save etc.

Bill Sikes wrote: Hey, Suzeeb, please will you humour me & quote a little bit of the thing you're

replying to? I'm recalcinately old-fashioned, and don't "view threaded". I know

it could be a shortcoming.


Will do

Lulu2 wrote:

AHA! That brings me back to my original question....just what exactly IS "cheating?"


In my mind cheating is doing something with someone that i wouldn't be doing if my partner was sat right next to me.

SuzyB wrote: In my mind cheating is doing something with someone that i wouldn't be doing if my partner was sat right next to me.




how about if i was stood behind you

jimbo wrote: how about if i was stood behind you


Jimbo

you probably are a good one to ask. I always get the feeling that a lot of men don't consider running around, sleeping with other women than their partner/wife as cheating. I just get the feeling that they think it is okay because they have to be satisfied. Mind you, I am not saying all men, just some. So is that close to true.

johoman wrote: I think some men cheat because they have no character, some men cheat because they get little or no sex at home. If a wife refused to have sex with a husband and this goes on for a long time would the husband be cheating if he found love elsewhere. I think there is no cheating if there is no or little sex in the first place. I think women stray not so much of sex or lack thereof but unment emotional needs. If the man is not having his needs met by his wife he has a very legitmate complaint. I know some women would say "to bad he married me". Marriage is not ownership and if she doesn't change her ways then she won't even have the marriage in name only. It takes TWO contributing people to make a mariage work. Johoman


I agree marriage is 100% a two way thing so it's my firm belief that if a part of a relationship is missing (ie sex) and that is becoming a real issue, then it is both of their responsibilities to sort something out. IMHO I think if this becomes such a big deal that one or other of them simply have to betray the other one then tbh it's time to end the relationship and start afresh, surely.

Deceit in a relationship is a breaking of trust and a marriage without trust is no marriage. My advice would be if the sort of relationship makes it impossible to discuss important issues then maybe it's the wrong relationship. Simply sticking your head in the sand and finding someone else to put it in when your wife or partner is trusting you is pretty low. Again, it's avoidance. Maybe these men should start thinking with their brains to get out of an unhappy situation, rather than their trousers.

Katy

guys i'm touched that you would value my opinion , slightly concerned but touched all the same



guys honestly cheating is cheating end of a couple of years ago my partner and i broke up mainly due to the fact that my brother had died in a house fire and within months my cousin who was also my best friend was murdered i went on a mission to kill my liver with jack Daniels , we broke up she saw some one else so did i , my point and i will get to it is this the person i met was great intelligent every thing a guy could want but i did not love her , and if i had gone out with her for a thousand years i never would of , love is an amazing thing the chances of loving some one is next to zero and the chances of that person loving you also is less than minus 10



my point is if your lucky to be in love and be loved back the only person you really cheat is yourself



i have re read this and i'm well aware it makes no sense but that's the wonder of jimbo :-2 :-2

Katy1 wrote: I agree marriage is 100% a two way thing so it's my firm belief that if a part of a relationship is missing (ie sex) and that is becoming a real issue, then it is both of their responsibilities to sort something out. IMHO I think if this becomes such a big deal that one or other of them simply have to betray the other one then tbh it's time to end the relationship and start afresh, surely.



Deceit in a relationship is a breaking of trust and a marriage without trust is no marriage. My advice would be if the sort of relationship makes it impossible to discuss important issues then maybe it's the wrong relationship. Simply sticking your head in the sand and finding someone else to put it in when your wife or partner is trusting you is pretty low. Again, it's avoidance. Maybe these men should start thinking with their brains to get out of an unhappy situation, rather than their trousers.



KatyDon't try to slough off all the responsibility on men. To read this, it seems women are only the poor victims 100% of the time.



Come on Katy, why are you so bitter?

Accountable wrote: Don't try to slough off all the responsibility on men. To read this, it seems women are only the poor victims 100% of the time.



Come on Katy, why are you so bitter?


Not at all Acc. I'm not bitter one bit in fact I feel that men and especially boys are often given a hard time in society, which actually proves to show how off target you are. But I thought that the topic was about men so I was talking about men. Start one up about women and I'll happily post about women's screw up's.

Perhaps you're the one being paranoid here Accountable? When I put a reasoned argument in response to your opinion it seems you come up all defensive!

Maybe the question should really be, c'mon Accountable why are you so defensive? do tell...

Katy1 wrote: Not at all Acc. I'm not bitter one bit in fact I feel that men and especially boys are often given a hard time in society, which actually proves to show how off target you are. But I thought that the topic was about men so I was talking about men. Start one up about women and I'll happily post about women's screw up's.



Perhaps you're the one being paranoid here Accountable? When I put a reasoned argument in response to your opinion it seems you come up all defensive!



Maybe the question should really be, c'mon Accountable why are you so defensive? do tell...You're right. this is a thread asking about cheating men, not women. It's truly (truly!) too much to ask for you to read the whole thread and notice it had evolved past this into a more mature discussion. I mean, I wouldn't have read all of it if I came in late.



I took your comments as an effort to beat a dead horse. My apologies.

Although can or may be a important part of a marriage.It is not the only part.And that matter not the most important too everyone.There many other parts too a relationship that have too be considered.You Herve too able too work together too achieve certain goals.my wife and I had lots of sex in the beginning,Then we decided too have a child when we ready(as if anyone is ready for that).Our feeling for each other has soured but we both understand that side from OUR own personal feeling,we have child That needs too be put first,above all else,so our marriage turned into a business partnership,We are parents and we owe it too my daughter too be a family unit period.We do not want too put her in any kind of awkward position or take either me or my wife away from her any point.We learn too tolerate each other because we both love our daughter that much.Why should we make her suffer because we don't love like we did i the start.Things change, people grow.Although we will not cheat on each other and still do have the occasional horizontal bop,we don't over analyze it.Fun is fun.We share the same purpose,sex is over rated and we have a daughter too raise and a home too run.and future too work hard for.

So cheating is what you make of it.I think online relationships are very touchy.There are lines and you must respect them.as in life,there are lines and you need too check yourself before you wreck yourself.Alittle harmless flirting is only wrong if you act on it,then YOU have made the commitment too abandon your priority's.If its how you want too life your life then so be it.

I do not.I have given up my selfishness for myself too be a Dad and a Family man.because i couldn't care less if I ever get laid again.At my age soon I will have too be taking pills just too pee straight?yeah ok.I got mone I got my share of trim.I'm in this life for the long run.And i am not putting my feeling and physical and emotional needs above my family,just that simple.

I've no reason too cheat.

Tater thanks for your honesty..You are in common postion I think. Being in a marriage with kids and things have changed between you and your partner. It's easy to say that you should get out of the marriage if your needs are not being met, but I'm not so sure. I do agree the needs of the children always comes first but each couple has to decide how that manifests itself. All I can say is good luck whatever way you go..

We function as a family unit,We put our difference aside too make our relationship work.We owe that too mt daughter.Until it harms my daughter,it will stay that way.

We can't be so selfish that we harm her.We are the grown ups,and we must teach that there is tolerance in love,it's not all story book.

Shweet tatersalad wrote: Although can or may be a important part of a marriage.It is not the only part.And that matter not the most important too everyone.There many other parts too a relationship that have too be considered.You Herve too able too work together too achieve certain goals.my wife and I had lots of sex in the beginning,Then we decided too have a child when we ready(as if anyone is ready for that).Our feeling for each other has soured but we both understand that side from OUR own personal feeling,we have child That needs too be put first,above all else,so our marriage turned into a business partnership,We are parents and we owe it too my daughter too be a family unit period.We do not want too put her in any kind of awkward position or take either me or my wife away from her any point.We learn too tolerate each other because we both love our daughter that much.Why should we make her suffer because we don't love like we did i the start.Things change, people grow.Although we will not cheat on each other and still do have the occasional horizontal bop,we don't over analyze it.Fun is fun.We share the same purpose,sex is over rated and we have a daughter too raise and a home too run.and future too work hard for.

So cheating is what you make of it.I think online relationships are very touchy.There are lines and you must respect them.as in life,there are lines and you need too check yourself before you wreck yourself.Alittle harmless flirting is only wrong if you act on it,then YOU have made the commitment too abandon your priority's.If its how you want too life your life then so be it.

I do not.I have given up my selfishness for myself too be a Dad and a Family man.because i couldn't care less if I ever get laid again.At my age soon I will have too be taking pills just too pee straight?yeah ok.I got mone I got my share of trim.I'm in this life for the long run.And i am not putting my feeling and physical and emotional needs above my family,just that simple.

I've no reason too cheat.


I like your attitude SPT. You have obviously come to an agreement with your wife for the sake of your child, I know all too well that when you have kids you have to give up much more than you could possibly imagine pre-kids, it's a sacrifice you make. I know that my DH and I were very 'active' at the beginning but when you have a family your priorities change and different things become important and satisfying, not just self fulfilling pursuits like having sex!

Katy:)

You got it,you know what i mean.Sex is not all that.

I am DAD,A hug and kiss or a thank you daddy is better than a bj or a nooner any day of the week.

Shweet tatersalad wrote: So cheating is what you make of it.I think online relationships are very touchy.There are lines and you must respect them.as in life,there are lines and you need too check yourself before you wreck yourself.Alittle harmless flirting is only wrong if you act on it,then YOU have made the commitment too abandon your priority's.If its how you want too life your life then so be it.


Shweet

I respect your point of view

But consider this

What if you had met CC in person?

That is why I think things are *not* black and white but rather a nice shade of gray.

Shweet tatersalad wrote: You got it,you know what i mean.Sex is not all that.

I am DAD,A hug and kiss or a thank you daddy is better than a bj or a nooner any day of the week.


Spot on.

Oh and hey I know what a bj is SPT but a 'nooner'? Must be a trans-atlantic thing:wah:

Katy1 wrote: Hey I know what a bj is SPT but a 'nooner'? Must be a trans-atlantic thing:wah:


a quickie at lunchtime..

zinkyusa wrote: a quickie at lunchtime..


Ah! Makes sense now........

zinkyusa wrote: a quickie at lunchtime..


Hey Zinkmeister (I nabbed this nickname from our lovely Lulu2!)

Is that an offer? :sneaky:

cherandbuster wrote: Hey Zinkmeister (I nabbed this nickname from our lovely Lulu2!)

Is that an offer? :sneaky:


We'll be accused of cheating by many on FG and sentenced to Hellfire by others Cher:-5

Sure why not..:wah:

cherandbuster wrote: Hey Zinkmeister (I nabbed this nickname from our lovely Lulu2!)

Is that an offer? :sneaky:


You minx!!

I've missed the midday rummage window now anyway:-1

Cher's right...and so's the 'Tater. Life isn't the black/white we imagine before we get married or have children. It's grey and it blurs and it's often 180 degrees from what we thought it'd be.

Wheeeee!

Lulu2 wrote: Cher's right...and so's the 'Tater. Life isn't the black/white we imagine before we get married or have children. It's grey and it blurs and it's often 180 degrees from what we thought it'd be.

Wheeeee!


I guess it simply means we shouldn't be judging other people and their situations..

XOXO...for the Zinkmeister.

cherandbuster wrote: Shweet

I respect your point of view

But consider this

What if you had met CC in person?

That is why I think things are *not* black and white but rather a nice shade of gray.


AAAAHHHHH..........................Why must you test my inner most emotions,Make me puke my heart out for all too see.damn you,damn you woman.

But really i am glad you had the guts too throw this out.As I'm sure it too came out some time and i am glad it was you.

I don't know what would have happened if i meet CC.We talked in length about touching base in person and seeing what we had on line would transcend too real life.She always had total respect for the fact that i was a family man.The notion of just "leave your wife for me" never came up.because we were planning for the future.The older my daughter gets the better my options get.I won't be married fore ever.We thought we had time on our hands:-1 ( we did talk a lot about that.)

So i can't say what have happened,but our first meeting in person was not centered around banging nasties.might have happened,we will never know.

but because we got too know each other from inside out we had alot more too experience with each other than sex. I'm not sure if answered your question,but there a difference between a one night stand or a sex friend and a eternal bliss.Marriage has nothing too do with either one.

Shweet tatersalad wrote: AAAAHHHHH..........................Why must you test my inner most emotions,Make me puke my heart out for all too see.damn you,damn you woman.

But really i am glad you had the guts too throw this out.As I'm sure it too came out some time and i am glad it was you.

I don't know what would have happened if i meet CC.We talked in length about touching base in person and seeing what we had on line would transcend too real life.She always had total respect for the fact that i was a family man.The notion of just "leave your wife for me" never came up.because we were planning for the future.The older my daughter gets the better my options get.I won't be married fore ever.We thought we had time on our hands:-1 ( we did talk a lot about that.)

So i can't say what have happened,but our first meeting in person was not centered around banging nasties.might have happened,we will never know.

but because we got too know each other from inside out we had alot more too experience with each other than sex. I'm not sure if answered your question,but there a difference between a one night stand or a sex friend and a eternal bliss.Marriage has nothing too do with either one.


Shweet

You answered my question in an honest and upstanding way, for which I have great respect.

Thank you :-6

Accountable wrote: You're right. this is a thread asking about cheating men, not women. It's truly (truly!) too much to ask for you to read the whole thread and notice it had evolved past this into a more mature discussion. I mean, I wouldn't have read all of it if I came in late.



I took your comments as an effort to beat a dead horse. My apologies.I'm told my apology doesn't come off as sincere. I meant it sincerely.

Men and Women are not evolved to cheat, in somecases they stray because the relationship they are in has soured or they are unfulfilled. They may go looking as a result or fall to the suggestion from somewhere else. Basically what I am saying is a) Keep your relationship alive and exciting, look out for eachother, make your partner feel they are the most important person in the room. invest in them and no other. That is the best defence b) Don't flirt (it is destructive and the mark of shallow people who lack self esteem) and don't be open to flirting by others. You have the right to set limits on how third parties treat you. Keep up barriers to temptation. c) Don't hesitate or apologise for defending your marriage from intrusion by anyone. A polite but firm 'I don't like your bahaviour toward my partner, she/he is not single, available or easy!' Is the rightful response of anyone in a marriage. d) Draw the line on consequences. If they value you and the marriage they will not want to jeopardise it for a mere sexual experiment.

20/20 is doing a show on men/women stereotypes tonight. Cheating will be addressed as part of the show.

My mother tried to get me to watch an interview with Dr. Laura on telly tonight.

That was one of her main themes. Infidelity. She ought to know, huh?

koan wrote: Dr. Laura


What a piece of work she is! :guitarist

koan wrote: My mother tried to get me to watch an interview with Dr. Laura on telly tonight.



That was one of her main themes. Infidelity. She ought to know, huh?Looks like an allusion. Care to explain it?

Dakotawoman;153578 wrote: This has probably been posted many times before, but let's do it again...K?;)


not all men cheat, i name at least..... no your right were a gits:-6