Fuzzy;1510192 wrote: I do.
Who is Mr. Lewis and what has he claimed that you agree with?
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
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xfrodobagginsx
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xfrodobagginsx
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Fuzzy;1510228 wrote: Just like you, I'm 100% sure that I'm not wrong in what I believe. I firmly believe that your god can not be proven.
So, then why won't you at least look at the evidence that I provide if you are so sure? Why won't you pray that if you are so sure?
So, then why won't you at least look at the evidence that I provide if you are so sure? Why won't you pray that if you are so sure?
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[QUOTE=xfrodobagginsx;1510284]So, then why won't you at least look at the evidence that I provide if you are so sure?
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xfrodobagginsx;1510285 wrote: [QUOTE=xfrodobagginsx;1510284]So, then why won't you at least look at the evidence that I provide if you are so sure?
So far you haven't provided any evidence. Propaganda is not evidence.
So far you haven't provided any evidence. Propaganda is not evidence.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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Fuzzy;1510286 wrote: [QUOTE=xfrodobagginsx;1510285]
So far you haven't provided any evidence. Propaganda is not evidence.
So, historical writings regarding Christ from His day and shortly after isn't evidence? Really?
So far you haven't provided any evidence. Propaganda is not evidence.
So, historical writings regarding Christ from His day and shortly after isn't evidence? Really?
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DID JESUS RISE FROM THE DEAD:
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510292 wrote: [QUOTE=Fuzzy;1510286]
So, historical writings regarding Christ from His day and shortly after isn't evidence? Really?
Yes really. Lies can't be called 'evidence'. Do you believe that humans thousands of years ago always told the truth? That would be very naive.
So, historical writings regarding Christ from His day and shortly after isn't evidence? Really?
Yes really. Lies can't be called 'evidence'. Do you believe that humans thousands of years ago always told the truth? That would be very naive.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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Fuzzy;1510307 wrote: [QUOTE=xfrodobagginsx;1510292]
Yes really. Lies can't be called 'evidence'. Do you believe that humans thousands of years ago always told the truth? That would be very naive.
The early historical writings regarding Christ are not lies, they are fact. You can call them lies all you want because you don't like the evidence, but that doesn't make them any less true. So, now you are saying that the historians of 2000 years ago didn't tell the truth, even though if they were caught lying, the sentence would be death, which is far worse than any penalty that modern historians would face. You are the one being naive.
Yes really. Lies can't be called 'evidence'. Do you believe that humans thousands of years ago always told the truth? That would be very naive.
The early historical writings regarding Christ are not lies, they are fact. You can call them lies all you want because you don't like the evidence, but that doesn't make them any less true. So, now you are saying that the historians of 2000 years ago didn't tell the truth, even though if they were caught lying, the sentence would be death, which is far worse than any penalty that modern historians would face. You are the one being naive.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510355 wrote: [QUOTE=Fuzzy;1510307]
The early historical writings regarding Christ are not lies, they are fact. You can call them lies all you want because you don't like the evidence, but that doesn't make them any less true. So, now you are saying that the historians of 2000 years ago didn't tell the truth, even though if they were caught lying, the sentence would be death, which is far worse than any penalty that modern historians would face. You are the one being naive.
You've got it all arseabout once again. Historians would only have been given the death penalty had they said anything contrary to religious beliefs, i.e. Bruno, just to name one.
So where did I say that historians of 2000 years ago didn't tell the truth?
The early historical writings regarding Christ are not lies, they are fact. You can call them lies all you want because you don't like the evidence, but that doesn't make them any less true. So, now you are saying that the historians of 2000 years ago didn't tell the truth, even though if they were caught lying, the sentence would be death, which is far worse than any penalty that modern historians would face. You are the one being naive.
You've got it all arseabout once again. Historians would only have been given the death penalty had they said anything contrary to religious beliefs, i.e. Bruno, just to name one.
So where did I say that historians of 2000 years ago didn't tell the truth?
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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Fuzzy;1510363 wrote: [QUOTE=xfrodobagginsx;1510355]
You've got it all arseabout once again. Historians would only have been given the death penalty had they said anything contrary to religious beliefs, i.e. Bruno, just to name one.
So where did I say that historians of 2000 years ago didn't tell the truth?
So, what you are saying is that these historians from different parts of the world, who didn't know each other and worked for ruthless dictators who would kill them if they lied, made up these historical writings to, coincidentally, also agree with the eyewitness, Biblical accounts? Like I said, you are ignoring the evidence because it doesn't suit what you wish were actually true.
You've got it all arseabout once again. Historians would only have been given the death penalty had they said anything contrary to religious beliefs, i.e. Bruno, just to name one.
So where did I say that historians of 2000 years ago didn't tell the truth?
So, what you are saying is that these historians from different parts of the world, who didn't know each other and worked for ruthless dictators who would kill them if they lied, made up these historical writings to, coincidentally, also agree with the eyewitness, Biblical accounts? Like I said, you are ignoring the evidence because it doesn't suit what you wish were actually true.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
But that's the point. There ARE no historical writings about him. Of course there are historical writings about other people & events happening at the time he was supposed to have been there, but nothing about HIM. There are loads of these writing, all cross referencing each other. Of these there is no doubt. But the only mention there is of Jesus is in the Bible. Theologians frequently do their best to use unrelated things as 'proof'. The nearest they came was Tacitus - only to find it proved by radio spectography that the original document had been deliberately edited to change the meaning of the original text to something entirely different, in order to make it fit the circumstances. True, this forgery was done hundreds of years ago, but the fact that it was forged hundreds of years ago doesn't make it any less a forgery. You frequently refer to some priest who was reputed to have slapped Jesus' face (according to the Bible) which you claim as proof. It is nothing of the sort. It is merely proof of the priest's existence. The same goes for the coffin of a Josephus. Once again, all that proves is that it is the coffin of someone called Josephus - probably not an uncommon name even then. You would even think that such a major event as a National Census would have made it into a few other documents, where everyone apparently being sent back to their birthplace in order to be taxed. WHY? What would the Romans have to gain by knowing where they were born? They would be more interested in knowing where they were at that particular time. Furthermore, there is no evidence of any such birth being in Bethlehem, but more like it was invented as being there so as to loosely tie in with some other distant prophecy.
For such a set of major events there is surprisingly little evidence to support it, yet you seem to want to believe in aa verbatim conversation between 2 people, with no-one else present to take notes, and accept that as fact. Can you just imagine taking that into a courtroom as evidence? The case would be, quite rightly, thrown out.
As for your earlier question of why not pray to ask that if he existes to reveal himself - that sounds like a leader to the usual defence when asked why he doesn't prove he exists, when they quote the "Thou shalt not question the word of thy God", or something like that. In other words, you either accept the word of some barmpot at face value, but when you ask for proof the barmpot tells you that part of the terms is that you're not allowed to ask for proof.
For such a set of major events there is surprisingly little evidence to support it, yet you seem to want to believe in aa verbatim conversation between 2 people, with no-one else present to take notes, and accept that as fact. Can you just imagine taking that into a courtroom as evidence? The case would be, quite rightly, thrown out.
As for your earlier question of why not pray to ask that if he existes to reveal himself - that sounds like a leader to the usual defence when asked why he doesn't prove he exists, when they quote the "Thou shalt not question the word of thy God", or something like that. In other words, you either accept the word of some barmpot at face value, but when you ask for proof the barmpot tells you that part of the terms is that you're not allowed to ask for proof.
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As to your post claiming that there are no early secular writings regarding Christ, I have already debunked this many times. I will post again soon. Don't have time at the moment so I leave the link below:
The Preservation Of Scripture:
The Preservation Of Scripture:
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FourPart;1510393 wrote: But that's the point. There ARE no historical writings about him.
False. I will again post them below.
Of course there are historical writings about other people & events happening at the time he was supposed to have been there, but nothing about HIM.
False.
There are loads of these writing, all cross referencing each other. Of these there is no doubt. But the only mention there is of Jesus is in the Bible.
False.
Theologians frequently do their best to use unrelated things as 'proof'. The nearest they came was Tacitus - only to find it proved by radio spectography that the original document had been deliberately edited to change the meaning of the original text to something entirely different, in order to make it fit the circumstances.
What evidence do you have that Tactus has been changed?
True, this forgery was done hundreds of years ago, but the fact that it was forged hundreds of years ago doesn't make it any less a forgery.
I would need proof of that, with that said, there are plenty of other writings regarding Christ outside of the eyewitness, historical writings in the Bible.
You frequently refer to some priest who was reputed to have slapped Jesus' face (according to the Bible) which you claim as proof. It is nothing of the sort.
I do? Not sure what you are talking about.
It is merely proof of the priest's existence. The same goes for the coffin of a Josephus. Once again, all that proves is that it is the coffin of someone called Josephus -
What about Josephus's historical writings regarding Jesus Christ? Don't they count?
probably not an uncommon name even then. You would even think that such a major event as a National Census would have made it into a few other documents, where everyone apparently being sent back to their birthplace in order to be taxed. WHY? What would the Romans have to gain by knowing where they were born? They would be more interested in knowing where they were at that particular time. Furthermore, there is no evidence of any such birth being in Bethlehem, but more like it was invented as being there so as to loosely tie in with some other distant prophecy.
Which kind of proof would you expect? They probably weren't there very long. He was born in a stable and was very poor. It's not surprising if there wasn't a record of it other than the historical Biblical, eyewitness accounts.
For such a set of major events there is surprisingly little evidence to support it, yet you seem to want to believe in aa verbatim conversation between 2 people, with no-one else present to take notes, and accept that as fact. Can you just imagine taking that into a courtroom as evidence? The case would be, quite rightly, thrown out.
The men who wrote the New Testament, knew Jesus personally and talked directly to Him. I wouldn't have been second hand information.
As for your earlier question of why not pray to ask that if he existes to reveal himself - that sounds like a leader to the usual defence when asked why he doesn't prove he exists, when they quote the "Thou shalt not question the word of thy God", or something like that. In other words, you either accept the word of some barmpot at face value, but when you ask for proof the barmpot tells you that part of the terms is that you're not allowed to ask for proof.
God has given plenty of proof that He exists for one thing. I have seen Him move in my life, miracles, He has spoken directly to me and others in my family and many others that I have spoken to at times of need...one thing I believe is that He doesn't tend to reveal these types of things to the non believing that He knows won't believe no matter what they see or learn. You need to have a wiling heart to truly believe it if He reveals Himself.
My responses are in bold above:
Josephus regarding Jesus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
Early Secular Writings Regarding Christ
Pontius Pilot (1 B.C.-37 A.D.)
The ancient Romans were scrupulously careful to preserve the memory of all remarkable events which happened in the city; and this was done either in their "Acts of the Senate" (Acts Senatus), or in the "Daily Acts of the People" (Acta Diurna Populi), which were diligently made and kept at Rome . . . In like manner it was customary for the governors of provinces to send to the emperor an account of remarkable transactions that occurred in the places where they resided, which were preserved in the "Acts of" their respective governments . . . we find, long before the time of Eusebius [3rd century], that the primitive Christians, in their disputes with the Gentiles, appealed to these "Acts of Pilate" . . . Thus, Justin Martyr, in his first "Apology" for the Christians, which was presented to the Emperor Antoninus Pius [A.D. 138-161] and the senate of Rome, about the year [A.D.] 140, having mentioned the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and some of its attendant circumstances, adds, "And these things were done, you may know from the 'Acts' made in the time of Pontius Pilate." [1]
TACITUS: (55-117) A.D.)
Cornelius Tactitus is regarded as the greatest historian of ancient Rome. Writing on the reign of Nero, Tacitus alludes to the death of Christ and to the existence of Christians in Rome.
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of on of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the word find their center and become popular.
PLINY THE YOUNGER: (112 A.D.)
Pliny was governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor who wrote a letter to Trajan regarding how to deal with Christians who worshiped Christ. These letters concern an episode which marks the first time the Roman government acknowledged Christianity as a religion separate from Judaism, and set a precedent for the massive persecution of Christians that takes place in the second and third centuries.
“They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sand in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath not to any wicked deeds, not to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor to deny any trust when they should be call to deliver it up, after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food —but food of an ordinary but and innocent kind.
BABYLONIAN TALMUD: (Completed in the 6th Century A.D.)
The Babylonian Talmud is a Rabbinic commentary of the Jewish scriptures (Tanach: Old Testament). They are a look into what is a hostile source was saying about Jesus. They could not deny the miracles but claimed that it was sorcery rather than admit to what was a known fact.
“ On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, “He is going forth to be stoned because He has practiced sorcery (an admission of his miracles) and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the even of the Passover.
The Babylonian Talmud, vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a
LUCIAN: (120-180 A.D.)
a Greek satirist that spoke scornfully of Christ and Christians, affirming that they were real and historical people, never saying that they were fictional characters.
“The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day — the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account¦.You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.
Lucian, The Death of Peregrine. 11-13.
LETTER OF MARA BARSARAPION: (73 A.D.)
Mara Bar-Serapion was a Syrian who lived in the first century A.D. He wrote a letter to his son Serapion that mentions the Jews who killed their King. The letter is now in the possession of the British Museum.
“What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?¦After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men¦The wise king¦Lived on in the teachings he enacted.
THALLUS: (52 A.D.)
One of the first secular writers that mentioned Christ. Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. Unfortunately, his writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus, a Christian who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus’ account of an eclipse of the sun (Luke 23:44-45).
“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.
Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
PHLEGON: (1st Century)
A secular historian wrote a history named, “Chronicles. This original work has been lost, Julius Africanus preserved a small fragment in his writings. Phlegon mentions the eclipse (Matthew 27:45) during the crucifixion of Jesus.
“During the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.
Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
SUETONIUS: (69-140 A.D.)
A Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. He refers to Christ and Christians and the “disturbances caused by them, namely not worshipping idols and loving all, including their tormentors.
“Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christ], he [Claudius] expelled them from the city [Rome]. Acts 18:2, which took place in 49 A.D.
Life of Claudius, 25:4.
In another work Suetonius wrote about the fire which devastated Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians and exacted a heavy punishment upon them, among them covering them with pitch and burning them alive in his gardens.
“Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief.
Lives of the Caesars, 26.2
TOLEDOTH YESHU: (6 Century)
This is a derogatory version of the life of Jesus, growing out of the response of the Jewish community to Christianity. The tradition presented here is most commonly dated to approximately the 6th century CE. The text it self is closer to the 14th century.
Mentions the empty tomb and that the Jewish leaders found it empty. That Jesus was crucified on the eve of the Passover and that He claimed to be God. That Jesus performed sorcery, he healed, and that he taught Rabbis. All of this from a hostile source, with the references above it is a historical fact that Jesus did miracles. His enemies could not refute it, rather they explained it away as sorcery!
CELSUS: (2nd Century)
Criticizes the Gospels, unknowingly reinforces the authors and the content, he alludes to 80 different quotes in the Bible. Admits that the miracles of Jesus were generally believed in the 2nd century.
JULIAN THE APOSTATE: (332-363 A.D.)
Emperor of Rome mentions the Gospels, miracles and other facts about Jesus. Julian had struggled to end the power of Christians in the Roman Empire. Since the day fifty years earlier that Constantine conquered in the sign of the cross, Christian influence had steadily grown. As Julian lay dying from a mortal wound he made the following remark:
“As he bled, the dying emperor groaned, “You have conquered, O Galilean, referring to Jesus Christ.
CLEMENT OF ROME: (100 A.D.)
Clement affirms the Resurrection, Gospels and that Jesus was sent to earth by God to take away our sins.
“Clement was the fourth bishop of Rome, the first being Peter. Did he know Peter and Paul? It is completely possible that those two Spirit-filled men taught him. Clement even wrote a letter to the Corinthian church that echoed the teachings of the apostles.
IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH: (50-107 A.D.)
Disciple of the apostles Peter, Paul, and John, who was martyred for his faith in Jesus. He was obviously convinced that Jesus really had lived and that Jesus was all that the apostles has said He was.
“¦nearness to the sword is nearness to God; to be among the wild beasts is to be in the arms of God; only let it be in the name of Jesus Christ. I endure all things that I may suffer together with him, since he who became perfect man strengthens me¦We have not only to be called Christians, but to be Christians.
While the emperor Trajan was on a visit to Asia Minor, he arrested Ignatius. When the bishop confessed his faith in Christ, the Emperor sent him in chains to Rome to die. He was hustled to the arena at once and thrown to two fierce lions who immediately devoured him.
QUADRATUS: (125 A.D.)
Bishop of Athens and a disciple of the apostles. Church historian Eusebius has preserved the only work that we have from Quadratus.
“The deeds of our Savior were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when he had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived in our times.
Eusebius, IV, III
EPISTLE OF BARNABAS: (130-38 A.D.)
Mentions the Resurrection, miracles, content of the Gospels and the crucifixion of Jesus.
ARISTIDES: (138-161 A.D.)
Aristides was a second-century Christian believer and philosopher from Athens. This portion of his defense of Christianity was addressed to the Roman Emperor Antonius Pius, who reigned from 138-161 A.D.
“The Son of the most high God, revealed by the Holy Spirit, descended from heaven, born of a Hebrew Virgin. His flesh he received from the Virgin, and he revealed himself in the human nature as the Son of God. In his goodness which brought the glad tidings, he has won the whole world by his life-giving preaching¦He selected twelve apostles and taught the whole world by his mediatorial, light-giving truth.
And he was crucified, being pierced with nails by the Jews; and he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. He sent the apostles into all the world and instructed all by divine miracles full of wisdom. Their preaching bears blossoms and fruits to this day, and calls the whole world to illumination.
Carey, “Aristides, 68.
JUSTIN MARTYR: (106-167 A.D.)
Justin Martyr is regarded as one of the greatest early Christian apologists. He was born around 100 A.D and was beheaded for his faith in Jesus in 167 A.D. He mentions as facts many things about Jesus and Christianity, such as: The Magi (wise men who brought gifts from Arabia), King Herod, His crucifixion, His garments parted among the Roman soldiers, the apostles leaving him on the night of his arrest, his fulfilled prophecies, His resurrection and His ascending into heaven among many others. These quotes can be found in his debate with Trypho the Jew.
HEGESIPPUS: (2 Century)
Eusebius draws the conclusion that Hegesippus was a Jew that wrote five books called, “Memoirs. Only fragments remain of his original work in the writings of Eusebius. They show that Hegesippus traveled extensively trying to determine if the stories of Jesus and the apostles were true. He found that they were accurate, even in the troubled church in Corinth.
“The Corinthian church continued in the true doctrine until Primus became bishop. I mixed with them on my voyage to Rome and spent several days with the Corinthians, during which we were refreshed with the true doctrine. On arrival at Rome I pieced together the succession down to Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus, Anicetus being succeeded by Soter and he by Eleutherus. In every line of bishops and in every city things accord with the preaching of the Law, the Prophets, and the Lord.
Eusebius, The History of the Church, 9.22.2.
TRAJAN: (53-117 A.D.)
Trajan is a Roman Emperor who wrote a letter [see letter] in response to the Governor of Asia Minor, Pliny the Younger. Pliny needed advice in dealing with “Christians who renounced their belief in Jesus due to fear of torture and execution.
MACROBIUS: (4th-5th Century)
Pascal (Pensees) mentions a quote of Augustus Caesar as an evidence to the murder of the 7-20 male babies (this is based on the population of Bethlehem in 4-6 B.C., which was 700-1,000 people) by King Herod in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16).
King Herod heard that a king was to be born and his fear and mental instability caused him to kill these male children under two years of age. King Herod killed his Wife, mother in law, and three sons. This is in character with his life of murder and paranoia. King Herod’s reign was described by his enemies as, “He stole to the throne like a fox, ruled like a tiger, and died like a dog.
Saturnalia, lib. 2, ch.4.
HADRIAN: (106-167 A.D.)
Justin Martyr quotes this Roman Emperor’s letter to Minucius Fundanus, proconsul of Asia Minor. This letter deals with accusations from pagans against the Christians.
“I have received the letter addressed to me by your predecessor Serenius Granianus, a most illustrious man; and this communication I am unwilling to pass over in silence, lest innocent persons be disturbed, and occasion be given to the informers for practicing villainy. Accordingly, if the inhabitants of your province will so far sustain this petition of theirs as to accuse the Christians in some court of law, I do not prohibit them from doing so.
But I will not suffer them to make use of mere entreaties and outcries. For it is far more just, if any one desires to make an accusation, that you give judgment upon it. If, therefore, any one makes the accusation, and furnishes proof that the said men do anything contrary to the laws, you shall adjudge punishments in proportion to the offences.
And this, by Hercules; you shall give special heed to, that if any man shall, through mere calumny, bring an accusation against any of these persons, you shall award to him more severe punishments in proportion to his wickedness.
Justin Martyr, The First Apology, Chapters, 68-69.
JUVENAL: (55 AD-127 AD)
Juvenal makes a reference of the tortures of Christians by Nero in Rome.
“But just describe Tigellinus and you will blaze amid those faggots in which men, with their throats tightly gripped, stand and burn and smoke, and you trace a broad furrow through the middle of the arena.
Satires, 1, lines 147-157.
SENECA: (3 B.C.-65 A.D.)
Seneca mentions the cruelties that Nero imposes upon Christians.
“The other kind of evil comes, so to speak, in the form of a huge parade. Surrounding it is a retinue of swords and fire and chains and a mob of beasts to be let loose upon the disemboweled entrails of men. Picture to yourself under his head the prison, the cross, the rack, the hook, and the stake which they drive straight through a man until it protrudes from his throat. Think of human limbs torn apart by chariots driven in opposite directions, of the terrible shirt smeared and interwoven with inflammable materials, and of all the other contrivances devised by cruelty, in addition to those which I have mentioned!
Epistulae Morales, Epistle 14, “On the Reasons for Withdrawing from the World.
HIEROCLES: (AD 284-305)
A quote by Eusebius preserves some of the text of this lost work of Hierocles, Philalethes or Lover of Truth. In this quote, Hierocles condemns Peter and Paul as sorcerers. Again, their miracles could not be denied, rather they claimed that they used sorcery.
“And this point is also worth noticing, that whereas the tales of Jesus have been vamped up by Peter and Paul and a few others of the kind,–men who were liars and devoid of education and wizards.
Eusebius, The Treatise of Eusebius, ch. 2.
ANTONIUS PIUS: (86 AD to 161 AD)
A letter from the Roman Emperor Antoninus Pius to the general assembly in Asia Minor. This letter says that the officials in Aisa Minor were getting upset at the Christians in their province, and that no changes are to be made in Antoninus’ method of dealing with them.
“The Emperor Caesar Titus AElius Adrianus Antoninus Augustus Pius, Supreme Pontiff, in the fifteenth year of his tribuneship, Consul for the third time, Father of the fatherland, to the Common Assembly of Asia, greeting: I should have thought that the gods themselves would see to it that such offenders should not escape.
For if they had the power, they themselves would much rather punish those who refuse to worship them; but it is you who bring trouble on these persons, and accuse as the opinion of atheists that which they hold, and lay to their charge certain other things which we are unable to prove.
But it would be advantageous to them that they should be thought to die for that of which they are accused, and they conquer you by being lavish of their lives rather than yield that obedience which you require of them. And regarding the earthquakes which have already happened and are now occurring, it is not seemly that you remind us of them, losing heart whenever they occur, and thus set your conduct in contrast with that of these men; for they have much greater confidence towards God than you yourselves have.
And you, indeed, seem at such times to ignore the gods, and you neglect the temples, and make no recognition of the worship of God. And hence you are jealous of those who do serve Him, and persecute them to the death.
Concerning such persons, some others also of the governors of provinces wrote to my most divine father; to whom he replied that they should not at all disturb such persons, unless they were found to be attempting anything against the Roman government. And to myself many have sent intimations regarding such persons, to whom I also replied in pursuance of my father’s judgment.
But if any one has a matter to bring against any person of this class, merely as such a person, let the accused be acquitted of the charge, even though he should be found to be such an one; but let the accuser he amenable to justice.
Justin Martyr, The First Apology, ch. 70.
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Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ
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The historical documents referring to Christ's life and work may be divided into three classes: pagan sources, Jewish sources, and Christian sources. We shall study the three in succession.
Pagan sources
The non-Christian sources for the historical truth of the Gospels are both few and polluted by hatred and prejudice. A number of reasons have been advanced for this condition of the pagan sources:
· The field of the Gospel history was remote Galilee;
· the Jews were noted as a superstitious race, if we believe Horace (Credat Judoeus Apella, I, Sat., v, 100);
· the God of the Jews was unknown and unintelligible to most pagans of that period;
· the Jews in whose midst Christianity had taken its origin were dispersed among, and hated by, all the pagan nations;
· the Christian religion itself was often confounded with one of the many sects that had sprung up in Judaism, and which could not excite the interest of the pagan spectator.
It is at least certain that neither Jews nor Gentiles suspected in the least the paramount importance of the religion, the rise of which they witnessed among them. These considerations will account for the rarity and the asperity with which Christian events are mentioned by pagan authors. But though Gentile writers do not give us any information about Christ and the early stages of Christianity which we do not possess in the Gospels, and though their statements are made with unconcealed hatred and contempt, still they unwittingly prove the historical value of the facts related by the Evangelists.
We need not delay over a writing entitled the "Acts of Pilate", which must have existed in the second century (Justin, "Apol"., I, 35), and must have been used in the pagan schools to warn boys against the belief of Christians (Eusebius, Church History I.9; Church History IX.5); nor need we inquire into the question whether there existed any authentic census tables of Quirinius.
Tacitus
We possess at least the testimony of Tacitus (A.D. 54-119) for the statements that the Founder of the Christian religion, a deadly superstition in the eyes of the Romans, had been put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate under the reign of Tiberius; that His religion, though suppressed for a time, broke forth again not only throughout Judea where it had originated, but even in Rome, the conflux of all the streams of wickedness and shamelessness; furthermore, that Nero had diverted from himself the suspicion of the burning of Rome by charging the Christians with the crime; that these latter were not guilty of arson, though they deserved their fate on account of their universal misanthropy. Tacitus, moreover, describes some of the horrible torments to which Nero subjected the Christians (Ann., XV, xliv). The Roman writer confounds the Christians with the Jews, considering them as an especially abject Jewish sect; how little he investigated the historical truth of even the Jewish records may be inferred from the credulity with which he accepted the absurd legends and calumnies about the origin of the Hebrew people (Hist., V, iii, iv).
Suetonius
Another Roman writer who shows his acquaintance with Christ and the Christians is Suetonius (A.D. 75-160). It has been noted that Suetonius considered Christ (Chrestus) as a Roman insurgent who stirred up seditions under the reign of Claudius (A.D. 41-54): "Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes (Claudius) Roma expulit" (Clau., xxv). In his life of Nero he regards that emperor as a public benefactor on account of his severe treatment of the Christians: "Multa sub eo et animadversa severe, et coercita, nec minus instituta . . . . afflicti Christiani, genus hominum superstitious novae et maleficae" (Nero, xvi). The Roman writer does not understand that the Jewish troubles arose from the Jewish antagonism to the Messianic character of Jesus Christ and to the rights of the Christian Church.
Pliny the Younger
Of greater importance is the letter of Pliny the Younger to the Emperor Trajan (about A.D. 61-115), in which the Governor of Bithynia consults his imperial majesty as to how to deal with the Christians living within his jurisdiction. On the one hand, their lives were confessedly innocent; no crime could be proved against them excepting their Christian belief, which appeared to the Roman as an extravagant and perverse superstition. On the other hand, the Christians could not be shaken in their allegiance to Christ, Whom they celebrated as their God in their early morning meetings (Ep., X, 97, 98). Christianity here appears no longer as a religion of criminals, as it does in the texts of Tacitus and Suetonius; Pliny acknowledges the high moral principles of the Christians, admires their constancy in the Faith (pervicacia et inflexibilis obstinatio), which he appears to trace back to their worship of Christ (carmenque Christo, quasi Deo, dicere).
Other pagan writers
The remaining pagan witnesses are of less importance: In the second century Lucian sneered at Christ and the Christians, as he scoffed at the pagan gods. He alludes to Christ's death on the Cross, to His miracles, to the mutual love prevailing among the Christians ("Philopseudes", nn. 13, 16; "De Morte Pereg"). There are also alleged allusions to Christ in Numenius (Origen, Against Celsus IV.51), to His parables in Galerius, to the earthquake at the Crucifixion in Phlegon (Origen, Against Celsus II.14). Before the end of the second century, the logos alethes of Celsus, as quoted by Origen (Contra Celsus, passim), testifies that at that time the facts related in the Gospels were generally accepted as historically true. However scanty the pagan sources of the life of Christ may be, they bear at least testimony to His existence, to His miracles, His parables, His claim to Divine worship, His death on the Cross, and to the more striking characteristics of His religion.
Jewish sources
Philo
Philo, who dies after A.D. 40, is mainly important for the light he throws on certain modes of thought and phraseology found again in some of the Apostles. Eusebius (Church History II.4) indeed preserves a legend that Philo had met St. Peter in Rome during his mission to the Emperor Caius; moreover, that in his work on the contemplative life he describes the life of the Christian Church in Alexandria founded by St. Mark, rather than that of the Essenes and Therapeutae. But it is hardly probable that Philo had heard enough of Christ and His followers to give an historical foundation to the foregoing legends.
Josephus
The earlist non-Christian writer who refers Christ is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus; born A.D. 37, he was a contemporary of the Apostles, and died in Rome A.D. 94. Two passages in his "Antiquities" which confirm two facts of the inspired Christian records are not disputed. In the one he reports the murder of "John called Baptist" by Herod (Ant., XVIII, v, 2), describing also John's character and work; in the other (Ant., XX, ix, 1) he disapproves of the sentence pronounced by the high priest Ananus against "James, brother of Jesus Who was called Christ." It is antecedently probable that a writer so well informed as Josephus, must have been well acquainted too with the doctrine and the history of Jesus Christ. Seeing, also, that he records events of minor importance in the history of the Jews, it would be surprising if he were to keep silence about Jesus Christ. Consideration for the priests and Pharisees did not prevent him from mentioning the judicial murders of John the Baptist and the Apostle James; his endeavour to find the fulfilment of the Messianic prophecies in Vespasian did not induce him to pass in silence over several Jewish sects, though their tenets appear to be inconsistent with the Vespasian claims. One naturally expects, therefore, a notice about Jesus Christ in Josephus. Antiquities XVIII, iii, 3, seems to satisfy this expectation:
About this time appeared Jesus, a wise man (if indeed it is right to call Him man; for He was a worker of astonishing deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with joy), and He drew to Himself many Jews (many also of Greeks. This was the Christ.) And when Pilate, at the denunciation of those that are foremost among us, had condemned Him to the cross, those who had first loved Him did not abandon Him (for He appeared to them alive again on the third day, the holy prophets having foretold this and countless other marvels about Him.) The tribe of Christians named after Him did not cease to this day.
A testimony so important as the foregoing could not escape the work of the critics. Their conclusions may be reduced to three headings: those who consider the passage wholly spurious; those who consider it to be wholly authentic; and those who consider it to be a little of each.
Those who regard the passage as spurious
First, there are those who consider the whole passage as spurious. The principal reasons for this view appear to be the following:
· Josephus could not represent Jesus Christ as a simple moralist, and on the other hand he could not emphasize the Messianic prophecies and expectations without offending the Roman susceptibilities;
· the above cited passage from Josephus is said to be unknown to Origen and the earlier patristic writers;
· its very place in the Josephan text is uncertain, since Eusebius (Church History II.6) must have found it before the notices concerning Pilate, while it now stands after them.
But the spuriousness of the disputed Josephan passage does not imply the historian's ignorance of the facts connected with Jesus Christ. Josephus's report of his own juvenile precocity before the Jewish teachers (Vit., 2) reminds one of the story of Christ's stay in the Temple at the age of twelve; the description of his shipwreck on his journey to Rome (Vit., 3) recalls St. Paul's shipwreck as told in the Acts; finally his arbitrary introduction of a deceit practised by the priests of Isis on a Roman lady, after the chapter containing his supposed allusion to Jesus, shows a disposition to explain away the virgin birth of Jesus and to prepare the falsehoods embodied in the later Jewish writings.
Those who regard the passage as authentic, with some spurious additions
A second class of critics do not regard the whole of Josephus's testimony concerning Christ as spurious but they maintain the interpolation of parts included above in parenthesis. The reasons assigned for this opinion may be reduced to the following two:
· Josephus must have mentioned Jesus, but he cannot have recognized Him as the Christ; hence part of our present Josephan text must be genuine, part must be interpolated.
· Again, the same conclusion follows from the fact that Origen knew a Josephan text about Jesus, but was not acquainted with our present reading; for, according to the great Alexandrian doctor, Josephus did not believe that Jesus was the Messias ("In Matth.", xiii, 55; Against Celsus I.47).
Whatever force these two arguments have is lost by the fact that Josephus did not write for the Jews but for the Romans; consequently, when he says, "This was the Christ", he does not necessarily imply that Jesus was the Christ considered by the Romans as the founder of the Christian religion.
Those who consider it to be completely genuine
The third class of scholars believe that the whole passage concerning Jesus, as it is found today in Josephus, is genuine. The main arguments for the genuineness of the Josephan passage are the following:
· First, all codices or manuscripts of Josephus's work contain the text in question; to maintain the spuriousness of the text, we must suppose that all the copies of Josephus were in the hands of Christians, and were changed in the same way.
· Second, it is true that neither Tertullian nor St. Justin makes use of Josephus's passage concerning Jesus; but this silence is probably due to the contempt with which the contemporary Jews regarded Josephus, and to the relatively little authority he had among the Roman readers. Writers of the age of Tertullian and Justin could appeal to living witnesses of the Apostolic tradition.
· Third, Eusebius ("Hist. Eccl"., I, xi; cf. "Dem. Ev.", III, v) Sozomen (Church History I.1), Niceph. (Hist. Eccl., I, 39), Isidore of Pelusium (Ep. IV, 225), St. Jerome (catal.script. eccles. xiii), Ambrose, Cassiodorus, etc., appeal to the testimony of Josephus; there must have been no doubt as to its authenticity at the time of these illustrious writers.
· Fourth, the complete silence of Josephus as to Jesus would have been a more eloquent testimony than we possess in his present text; this latter contains no statement incompatible with its Josephan authorship: the Roman reader needed the information that Jesus was the Christ, or the founder of the Christian religion; the wonderful works of Jesus and His Resurrection from the dead were so incessantly urged by the Christians that without these attributes the Josephan Jesus would hardly have been acknowledged as the founder of Christianity.
All this does not necessarily imply that Josephus regarded Jesus as the Jewish Messias; but, even if he had been convinced of His Messiahship, it does not follow that he would have become a Christian. A number of possible subterfuges might have supplied the Jewish historian with apparently sufficient reasons for not embracing Christianity.
Other Jewish sources
The historical character of Jesus Christ is also attested by the hostile Jewish literature of the subsequent centuries. His birth is ascribed to an illicit ("Acta Pilati" in Thilo, "Codex apocryph. N.T., I, 526; cf. Justin, "Apol.", I, 35), or even an adulterous, union of His parents (Origen, Against Celsus I.28 and I.32). The father's name is Panthera, a common soldier (Gemara "Sanhedrin", viii; "Schabbath", xii, cf. Eisenmenger, "Entdecktes Judenthum", I, 109; Schottgen, "Horae Hebraicae", II, 696; Buxtorf, "Lex. Chald.", Basle, 1639, 1459, Huldreich, "Sepher toledhoth yeshua hannaceri", Leyden, 1705). The last work in its final edition did not appear before the thirteenth century, so that it could give the Panthera myth in its most advanced form. Rosch is of opinion that the myth did not begin before the end of the first century.
The later Jewish writings show traces of acquaintance with the murder of the Holy Innocents (Wagenseil, "Confut. Libr. Toldoth", 15; Eisenmenger op. cit., I, 116; Schottgen, op. cit., II, 667), with the flight into Egypt (cf. Josephus, "Ant." XIII, xiii), with the stay of Jesus in the Temple at the age of twelve (Schottgen, op. cit., II, 696), with the call of the disciples ("Sanhedrin", 43a; Wagenseil, op. cit., 17; Schottgen, loc. cit., 713), with His miracles (Origen, Against Celsus II.48; Wagenseil, op. cit., 150; Gemara "Sanhedrin" fol. 17); "Schabbath", fol. 104b; Wagenseil, op. cit., 6, 7, 17), with His claim to be God (Origen, Against Celsus I.28; cf. Eisenmenger, op. cit., I, 152; Schottgen, loc. cit., 699) with His betrayal by Judas and His death (Origen, "Contra cels.", II, 9, 45, 68, 70; Buxtorf, op. cit., 1458; Lightfoot, "Hor. Heb.", 458, 490, 498; Eisenmenger, loc. cit., 185; Schottgen, loc. cit., 699 700; cf. "Sanhedrin", vi, vii). Celsus (Origen, Against Celsus II.55) tries to throw doubt on the Resurrection, while Toldoth (cf. Wagenseil, 19) repeats the Jewish fiction that the body of Jesus had been stolen from the sepulchre.
Christian sources
Among the Christian sources of the life of Jesus we need hardly mention the so called Agrapha and Apocrypha. For whether the Agrapha contain Logia of Jesus, or refer to incidents in His life, they are either highly uncertain or present only variations of the Gospel story. The chief value of the Apocrypha consists in their showing the infinite superiority of the Inspired Writings by contrasting the coarse and erroneous productions of the human mind with the simple and sublime truths written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.
Among the Sacred Books of the New Testament, it is especially the four Gospels and the four great Epistles of St. Paul that are of the highest importance for the construction of the life of Jesus.
The four great Pauline Epistles (Romans, Galatians, and First and Second Corinthinas) can hardly be overestimated by the student of Christ's life; they have at times been called the "fifth gospel"; their authenticity has never been assailed by serious critics; their testimony is also earlier than that of the Gospels, at least most of the Gospels; it is the more valuable because it is incidental and undesigned; it is the testimony of a highly intellectual and cultured writer, who had been the greatest enemy of Jesus, who writes within twenty-five years of the events which he relates. At the same time, these four great Epistles bear witness to all the most important facts in the life of Christ: His Davidic descent, His poverty, His Messiahship, His moral teaching, His preaching of the kingdom of God, His calling of the apostles, His miraculous power, His claims to be God, His betrayal, His institution of the Holy Eucharist, His passion, crucifixion, burial, resurrection, His repeated appearances (Romans 1:3-4; 5:11; 8:2-3; 8:32; 9:5; 15:8; Galatians 2:17; 3:13; 4:4; 5:21; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 13:4; etc.). However important the four great Epistles may be, the gospels are still more so. Not that any one of them offers a complete biography of Jesus, but they account for the origin of Christianity by the life of its Founder. Questions like the authenticity of the Gospels, the relation between the Synoptic Gospels, and the Fourth, the Synoptic problem, must be studied in the articles referring to these respective subjects.
About this page
APA citation. Maas, A. (1910). Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved December 6, 2014 from New Advent: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Early Historical Documents On Jesus Christ
MLA citation. Maas, Anthony. "Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 8. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1910. 6 Dec. 2014 .
Transcription. This article was transcribed for New Advent by Joseph P. Thomas. In Memory of Archbishop Mathew Kavukatt.
Ecclesiastical approbation. Nihil Obstat. October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York.
Contact information. The editor of New Advent is Kevin Knight. My email address is webmaster at newadvent.org. Regrettably, I can't reply to every letter, but I greatly appreciate your feedback — especially notifications about typographical errors and inappropriate ads.
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False. I will again post them below.
Of course there are historical writings about other people & events happening at the time he was supposed to have been there, but nothing about HIM.
False.
There are loads of these writing, all cross referencing each other. Of these there is no doubt. But the only mention there is of Jesus is in the Bible.
False.
Theologians frequently do their best to use unrelated things as 'proof'. The nearest they came was Tacitus - only to find it proved by radio spectography that the original document had been deliberately edited to change the meaning of the original text to something entirely different, in order to make it fit the circumstances.
What evidence do you have that Tactus has been changed?
True, this forgery was done hundreds of years ago, but the fact that it was forged hundreds of years ago doesn't make it any less a forgery.
I would need proof of that, with that said, there are plenty of other writings regarding Christ outside of the eyewitness, historical writings in the Bible.
You frequently refer to some priest who was reputed to have slapped Jesus' face (according to the Bible) which you claim as proof. It is nothing of the sort.
I do? Not sure what you are talking about.
It is merely proof of the priest's existence. The same goes for the coffin of a Josephus. Once again, all that proves is that it is the coffin of someone called Josephus -
What about Josephus's historical writings regarding Jesus Christ? Don't they count?
probably not an uncommon name even then. You would even think that such a major event as a National Census would have made it into a few other documents, where everyone apparently being sent back to their birthplace in order to be taxed. WHY? What would the Romans have to gain by knowing where they were born? They would be more interested in knowing where they were at that particular time. Furthermore, there is no evidence of any such birth being in Bethlehem, but more like it was invented as being there so as to loosely tie in with some other distant prophecy.
Which kind of proof would you expect? They probably weren't there very long. He was born in a stable and was very poor. It's not surprising if there wasn't a record of it other than the historical Biblical, eyewitness accounts.
For such a set of major events there is surprisingly little evidence to support it, yet you seem to want to believe in aa verbatim conversation between 2 people, with no-one else present to take notes, and accept that as fact. Can you just imagine taking that into a courtroom as evidence? The case would be, quite rightly, thrown out.
The men who wrote the New Testament, knew Jesus personally and talked directly to Him. I wouldn't have been second hand information.
As for your earlier question of why not pray to ask that if he existes to reveal himself - that sounds like a leader to the usual defence when asked why he doesn't prove he exists, when they quote the "Thou shalt not question the word of thy God", or something like that. In other words, you either accept the word of some barmpot at face value, but when you ask for proof the barmpot tells you that part of the terms is that you're not allowed to ask for proof.
God has given plenty of proof that He exists for one thing. I have seen Him move in my life, miracles, He has spoken directly to me and others in my family and many others that I have spoken to at times of need...one thing I believe is that He doesn't tend to reveal these types of things to the non believing that He knows won't believe no matter what they see or learn. You need to have a wiling heart to truly believe it if He reveals Himself.
My responses are in bold above:
Josephus regarding Jesus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
Early Secular Writings Regarding Christ
Pontius Pilot (1 B.C.-37 A.D.)
The ancient Romans were scrupulously careful to preserve the memory of all remarkable events which happened in the city; and this was done either in their "Acts of the Senate" (Acts Senatus), or in the "Daily Acts of the People" (Acta Diurna Populi), which were diligently made and kept at Rome . . . In like manner it was customary for the governors of provinces to send to the emperor an account of remarkable transactions that occurred in the places where they resided, which were preserved in the "Acts of" their respective governments . . . we find, long before the time of Eusebius [3rd century], that the primitive Christians, in their disputes with the Gentiles, appealed to these "Acts of Pilate" . . . Thus, Justin Martyr, in his first "Apology" for the Christians, which was presented to the Emperor Antoninus Pius [A.D. 138-161] and the senate of Rome, about the year [A.D.] 140, having mentioned the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and some of its attendant circumstances, adds, "And these things were done, you may know from the 'Acts' made in the time of Pontius Pilate." [1]
TACITUS: (55-117) A.D.)
Cornelius Tactitus is regarded as the greatest historian of ancient Rome. Writing on the reign of Nero, Tacitus alludes to the death of Christ and to the existence of Christians in Rome.
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of on of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the word find their center and become popular.
PLINY THE YOUNGER: (112 A.D.)
Pliny was governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor who wrote a letter to Trajan regarding how to deal with Christians who worshiped Christ. These letters concern an episode which marks the first time the Roman government acknowledged Christianity as a religion separate from Judaism, and set a precedent for the massive persecution of Christians that takes place in the second and third centuries.
“They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sand in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath not to any wicked deeds, not to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor to deny any trust when they should be call to deliver it up, after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food —but food of an ordinary but and innocent kind.
BABYLONIAN TALMUD: (Completed in the 6th Century A.D.)
The Babylonian Talmud is a Rabbinic commentary of the Jewish scriptures (Tanach: Old Testament). They are a look into what is a hostile source was saying about Jesus. They could not deny the miracles but claimed that it was sorcery rather than admit to what was a known fact.
“ On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, “He is going forth to be stoned because He has practiced sorcery (an admission of his miracles) and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the even of the Passover.
The Babylonian Talmud, vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a
LUCIAN: (120-180 A.D.)
a Greek satirist that spoke scornfully of Christ and Christians, affirming that they were real and historical people, never saying that they were fictional characters.
“The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day — the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account¦.You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.
Lucian, The Death of Peregrine. 11-13.
LETTER OF MARA BARSARAPION: (73 A.D.)
Mara Bar-Serapion was a Syrian who lived in the first century A.D. He wrote a letter to his son Serapion that mentions the Jews who killed their King. The letter is now in the possession of the British Museum.
“What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?¦After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men¦The wise king¦Lived on in the teachings he enacted.
THALLUS: (52 A.D.)
One of the first secular writers that mentioned Christ. Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. Unfortunately, his writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus, a Christian who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus’ account of an eclipse of the sun (Luke 23:44-45).
“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.
Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
PHLEGON: (1st Century)
A secular historian wrote a history named, “Chronicles. This original work has been lost, Julius Africanus preserved a small fragment in his writings. Phlegon mentions the eclipse (Matthew 27:45) during the crucifixion of Jesus.
“During the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.
Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
SUETONIUS: (69-140 A.D.)
A Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. He refers to Christ and Christians and the “disturbances caused by them, namely not worshipping idols and loving all, including their tormentors.
“Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christ], he [Claudius] expelled them from the city [Rome]. Acts 18:2, which took place in 49 A.D.
Life of Claudius, 25:4.
In another work Suetonius wrote about the fire which devastated Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians and exacted a heavy punishment upon them, among them covering them with pitch and burning them alive in his gardens.
“Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief.
Lives of the Caesars, 26.2
TOLEDOTH YESHU: (6 Century)
This is a derogatory version of the life of Jesus, growing out of the response of the Jewish community to Christianity. The tradition presented here is most commonly dated to approximately the 6th century CE. The text it self is closer to the 14th century.
Mentions the empty tomb and that the Jewish leaders found it empty. That Jesus was crucified on the eve of the Passover and that He claimed to be God. That Jesus performed sorcery, he healed, and that he taught Rabbis. All of this from a hostile source, with the references above it is a historical fact that Jesus did miracles. His enemies could not refute it, rather they explained it away as sorcery!
CELSUS: (2nd Century)
Criticizes the Gospels, unknowingly reinforces the authors and the content, he alludes to 80 different quotes in the Bible. Admits that the miracles of Jesus were generally believed in the 2nd century.
JULIAN THE APOSTATE: (332-363 A.D.)
Emperor of Rome mentions the Gospels, miracles and other facts about Jesus. Julian had struggled to end the power of Christians in the Roman Empire. Since the day fifty years earlier that Constantine conquered in the sign of the cross, Christian influence had steadily grown. As Julian lay dying from a mortal wound he made the following remark:
“As he bled, the dying emperor groaned, “You have conquered, O Galilean, referring to Jesus Christ.
CLEMENT OF ROME: (100 A.D.)
Clement affirms the Resurrection, Gospels and that Jesus was sent to earth by God to take away our sins.
“Clement was the fourth bishop of Rome, the first being Peter. Did he know Peter and Paul? It is completely possible that those two Spirit-filled men taught him. Clement even wrote a letter to the Corinthian church that echoed the teachings of the apostles.
IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH: (50-107 A.D.)
Disciple of the apostles Peter, Paul, and John, who was martyred for his faith in Jesus. He was obviously convinced that Jesus really had lived and that Jesus was all that the apostles has said He was.
“¦nearness to the sword is nearness to God; to be among the wild beasts is to be in the arms of God; only let it be in the name of Jesus Christ. I endure all things that I may suffer together with him, since he who became perfect man strengthens me¦We have not only to be called Christians, but to be Christians.
While the emperor Trajan was on a visit to Asia Minor, he arrested Ignatius. When the bishop confessed his faith in Christ, the Emperor sent him in chains to Rome to die. He was hustled to the arena at once and thrown to two fierce lions who immediately devoured him.
QUADRATUS: (125 A.D.)
Bishop of Athens and a disciple of the apostles. Church historian Eusebius has preserved the only work that we have from Quadratus.
“The deeds of our Savior were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when he had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived in our times.
Eusebius, IV, III
EPISTLE OF BARNABAS: (130-38 A.D.)
Mentions the Resurrection, miracles, content of the Gospels and the crucifixion of Jesus.
ARISTIDES: (138-161 A.D.)
Aristides was a second-century Christian believer and philosopher from Athens. This portion of his defense of Christianity was addressed to the Roman Emperor Antonius Pius, who reigned from 138-161 A.D.
“The Son of the most high God, revealed by the Holy Spirit, descended from heaven, born of a Hebrew Virgin. His flesh he received from the Virgin, and he revealed himself in the human nature as the Son of God. In his goodness which brought the glad tidings, he has won the whole world by his life-giving preaching¦He selected twelve apostles and taught the whole world by his mediatorial, light-giving truth.
And he was crucified, being pierced with nails by the Jews; and he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. He sent the apostles into all the world and instructed all by divine miracles full of wisdom. Their preaching bears blossoms and fruits to this day, and calls the whole world to illumination.
Carey, “Aristides, 68.
JUSTIN MARTYR: (106-167 A.D.)
Justin Martyr is regarded as one of the greatest early Christian apologists. He was born around 100 A.D and was beheaded for his faith in Jesus in 167 A.D. He mentions as facts many things about Jesus and Christianity, such as: The Magi (wise men who brought gifts from Arabia), King Herod, His crucifixion, His garments parted among the Roman soldiers, the apostles leaving him on the night of his arrest, his fulfilled prophecies, His resurrection and His ascending into heaven among many others. These quotes can be found in his debate with Trypho the Jew.
HEGESIPPUS: (2 Century)
Eusebius draws the conclusion that Hegesippus was a Jew that wrote five books called, “Memoirs. Only fragments remain of his original work in the writings of Eusebius. They show that Hegesippus traveled extensively trying to determine if the stories of Jesus and the apostles were true. He found that they were accurate, even in the troubled church in Corinth.
“The Corinthian church continued in the true doctrine until Primus became bishop. I mixed with them on my voyage to Rome and spent several days with the Corinthians, during which we were refreshed with the true doctrine. On arrival at Rome I pieced together the succession down to Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus, Anicetus being succeeded by Soter and he by Eleutherus. In every line of bishops and in every city things accord with the preaching of the Law, the Prophets, and the Lord.
Eusebius, The History of the Church, 9.22.2.
TRAJAN: (53-117 A.D.)
Trajan is a Roman Emperor who wrote a letter [see letter] in response to the Governor of Asia Minor, Pliny the Younger. Pliny needed advice in dealing with “Christians who renounced their belief in Jesus due to fear of torture and execution.
MACROBIUS: (4th-5th Century)
Pascal (Pensees) mentions a quote of Augustus Caesar as an evidence to the murder of the 7-20 male babies (this is based on the population of Bethlehem in 4-6 B.C., which was 700-1,000 people) by King Herod in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16).
King Herod heard that a king was to be born and his fear and mental instability caused him to kill these male children under two years of age. King Herod killed his Wife, mother in law, and three sons. This is in character with his life of murder and paranoia. King Herod’s reign was described by his enemies as, “He stole to the throne like a fox, ruled like a tiger, and died like a dog.
Saturnalia, lib. 2, ch.4.
HADRIAN: (106-167 A.D.)
Justin Martyr quotes this Roman Emperor’s letter to Minucius Fundanus, proconsul of Asia Minor. This letter deals with accusations from pagans against the Christians.
“I have received the letter addressed to me by your predecessor Serenius Granianus, a most illustrious man; and this communication I am unwilling to pass over in silence, lest innocent persons be disturbed, and occasion be given to the informers for practicing villainy. Accordingly, if the inhabitants of your province will so far sustain this petition of theirs as to accuse the Christians in some court of law, I do not prohibit them from doing so.
But I will not suffer them to make use of mere entreaties and outcries. For it is far more just, if any one desires to make an accusation, that you give judgment upon it. If, therefore, any one makes the accusation, and furnishes proof that the said men do anything contrary to the laws, you shall adjudge punishments in proportion to the offences.
And this, by Hercules; you shall give special heed to, that if any man shall, through mere calumny, bring an accusation against any of these persons, you shall award to him more severe punishments in proportion to his wickedness.
Justin Martyr, The First Apology, Chapters, 68-69.
JUVENAL: (55 AD-127 AD)
Juvenal makes a reference of the tortures of Christians by Nero in Rome.
“But just describe Tigellinus and you will blaze amid those faggots in which men, with their throats tightly gripped, stand and burn and smoke, and you trace a broad furrow through the middle of the arena.
Satires, 1, lines 147-157.
SENECA: (3 B.C.-65 A.D.)
Seneca mentions the cruelties that Nero imposes upon Christians.
“The other kind of evil comes, so to speak, in the form of a huge parade. Surrounding it is a retinue of swords and fire and chains and a mob of beasts to be let loose upon the disemboweled entrails of men. Picture to yourself under his head the prison, the cross, the rack, the hook, and the stake which they drive straight through a man until it protrudes from his throat. Think of human limbs torn apart by chariots driven in opposite directions, of the terrible shirt smeared and interwoven with inflammable materials, and of all the other contrivances devised by cruelty, in addition to those which I have mentioned!
Epistulae Morales, Epistle 14, “On the Reasons for Withdrawing from the World.
HIEROCLES: (AD 284-305)
A quote by Eusebius preserves some of the text of this lost work of Hierocles, Philalethes or Lover of Truth. In this quote, Hierocles condemns Peter and Paul as sorcerers. Again, their miracles could not be denied, rather they claimed that they used sorcery.
“And this point is also worth noticing, that whereas the tales of Jesus have been vamped up by Peter and Paul and a few others of the kind,–men who were liars and devoid of education and wizards.
Eusebius, The Treatise of Eusebius, ch. 2.
ANTONIUS PIUS: (86 AD to 161 AD)
A letter from the Roman Emperor Antoninus Pius to the general assembly in Asia Minor. This letter says that the officials in Aisa Minor were getting upset at the Christians in their province, and that no changes are to be made in Antoninus’ method of dealing with them.
“The Emperor Caesar Titus AElius Adrianus Antoninus Augustus Pius, Supreme Pontiff, in the fifteenth year of his tribuneship, Consul for the third time, Father of the fatherland, to the Common Assembly of Asia, greeting: I should have thought that the gods themselves would see to it that such offenders should not escape.
For if they had the power, they themselves would much rather punish those who refuse to worship them; but it is you who bring trouble on these persons, and accuse as the opinion of atheists that which they hold, and lay to their charge certain other things which we are unable to prove.
But it would be advantageous to them that they should be thought to die for that of which they are accused, and they conquer you by being lavish of their lives rather than yield that obedience which you require of them. And regarding the earthquakes which have already happened and are now occurring, it is not seemly that you remind us of them, losing heart whenever they occur, and thus set your conduct in contrast with that of these men; for they have much greater confidence towards God than you yourselves have.
And you, indeed, seem at such times to ignore the gods, and you neglect the temples, and make no recognition of the worship of God. And hence you are jealous of those who do serve Him, and persecute them to the death.
Concerning such persons, some others also of the governors of provinces wrote to my most divine father; to whom he replied that they should not at all disturb such persons, unless they were found to be attempting anything against the Roman government. And to myself many have sent intimations regarding such persons, to whom I also replied in pursuance of my father’s judgment.
But if any one has a matter to bring against any person of this class, merely as such a person, let the accused be acquitted of the charge, even though he should be found to be such an one; but let the accuser he amenable to justice.
Justin Martyr, The First Apology, ch. 70.
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Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ
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The historical documents referring to Christ's life and work may be divided into three classes: pagan sources, Jewish sources, and Christian sources. We shall study the three in succession.
Pagan sources
The non-Christian sources for the historical truth of the Gospels are both few and polluted by hatred and prejudice. A number of reasons have been advanced for this condition of the pagan sources:
· The field of the Gospel history was remote Galilee;
· the Jews were noted as a superstitious race, if we believe Horace (Credat Judoeus Apella, I, Sat., v, 100);
· the God of the Jews was unknown and unintelligible to most pagans of that period;
· the Jews in whose midst Christianity had taken its origin were dispersed among, and hated by, all the pagan nations;
· the Christian religion itself was often confounded with one of the many sects that had sprung up in Judaism, and which could not excite the interest of the pagan spectator.
It is at least certain that neither Jews nor Gentiles suspected in the least the paramount importance of the religion, the rise of which they witnessed among them. These considerations will account for the rarity and the asperity with which Christian events are mentioned by pagan authors. But though Gentile writers do not give us any information about Christ and the early stages of Christianity which we do not possess in the Gospels, and though their statements are made with unconcealed hatred and contempt, still they unwittingly prove the historical value of the facts related by the Evangelists.
We need not delay over a writing entitled the "Acts of Pilate", which must have existed in the second century (Justin, "Apol"., I, 35), and must have been used in the pagan schools to warn boys against the belief of Christians (Eusebius, Church History I.9; Church History IX.5); nor need we inquire into the question whether there existed any authentic census tables of Quirinius.
Tacitus
We possess at least the testimony of Tacitus (A.D. 54-119) for the statements that the Founder of the Christian religion, a deadly superstition in the eyes of the Romans, had been put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate under the reign of Tiberius; that His religion, though suppressed for a time, broke forth again not only throughout Judea where it had originated, but even in Rome, the conflux of all the streams of wickedness and shamelessness; furthermore, that Nero had diverted from himself the suspicion of the burning of Rome by charging the Christians with the crime; that these latter were not guilty of arson, though they deserved their fate on account of their universal misanthropy. Tacitus, moreover, describes some of the horrible torments to which Nero subjected the Christians (Ann., XV, xliv). The Roman writer confounds the Christians with the Jews, considering them as an especially abject Jewish sect; how little he investigated the historical truth of even the Jewish records may be inferred from the credulity with which he accepted the absurd legends and calumnies about the origin of the Hebrew people (Hist., V, iii, iv).
Suetonius
Another Roman writer who shows his acquaintance with Christ and the Christians is Suetonius (A.D. 75-160). It has been noted that Suetonius considered Christ (Chrestus) as a Roman insurgent who stirred up seditions under the reign of Claudius (A.D. 41-54): "Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes (Claudius) Roma expulit" (Clau., xxv). In his life of Nero he regards that emperor as a public benefactor on account of his severe treatment of the Christians: "Multa sub eo et animadversa severe, et coercita, nec minus instituta . . . . afflicti Christiani, genus hominum superstitious novae et maleficae" (Nero, xvi). The Roman writer does not understand that the Jewish troubles arose from the Jewish antagonism to the Messianic character of Jesus Christ and to the rights of the Christian Church.
Pliny the Younger
Of greater importance is the letter of Pliny the Younger to the Emperor Trajan (about A.D. 61-115), in which the Governor of Bithynia consults his imperial majesty as to how to deal with the Christians living within his jurisdiction. On the one hand, their lives were confessedly innocent; no crime could be proved against them excepting their Christian belief, which appeared to the Roman as an extravagant and perverse superstition. On the other hand, the Christians could not be shaken in their allegiance to Christ, Whom they celebrated as their God in their early morning meetings (Ep., X, 97, 98). Christianity here appears no longer as a religion of criminals, as it does in the texts of Tacitus and Suetonius; Pliny acknowledges the high moral principles of the Christians, admires their constancy in the Faith (pervicacia et inflexibilis obstinatio), which he appears to trace back to their worship of Christ (carmenque Christo, quasi Deo, dicere).
Other pagan writers
The remaining pagan witnesses are of less importance: In the second century Lucian sneered at Christ and the Christians, as he scoffed at the pagan gods. He alludes to Christ's death on the Cross, to His miracles, to the mutual love prevailing among the Christians ("Philopseudes", nn. 13, 16; "De Morte Pereg"). There are also alleged allusions to Christ in Numenius (Origen, Against Celsus IV.51), to His parables in Galerius, to the earthquake at the Crucifixion in Phlegon (Origen, Against Celsus II.14). Before the end of the second century, the logos alethes of Celsus, as quoted by Origen (Contra Celsus, passim), testifies that at that time the facts related in the Gospels were generally accepted as historically true. However scanty the pagan sources of the life of Christ may be, they bear at least testimony to His existence, to His miracles, His parables, His claim to Divine worship, His death on the Cross, and to the more striking characteristics of His religion.
Jewish sources
Philo
Philo, who dies after A.D. 40, is mainly important for the light he throws on certain modes of thought and phraseology found again in some of the Apostles. Eusebius (Church History II.4) indeed preserves a legend that Philo had met St. Peter in Rome during his mission to the Emperor Caius; moreover, that in his work on the contemplative life he describes the life of the Christian Church in Alexandria founded by St. Mark, rather than that of the Essenes and Therapeutae. But it is hardly probable that Philo had heard enough of Christ and His followers to give an historical foundation to the foregoing legends.
Josephus
The earlist non-Christian writer who refers Christ is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus; born A.D. 37, he was a contemporary of the Apostles, and died in Rome A.D. 94. Two passages in his "Antiquities" which confirm two facts of the inspired Christian records are not disputed. In the one he reports the murder of "John called Baptist" by Herod (Ant., XVIII, v, 2), describing also John's character and work; in the other (Ant., XX, ix, 1) he disapproves of the sentence pronounced by the high priest Ananus against "James, brother of Jesus Who was called Christ." It is antecedently probable that a writer so well informed as Josephus, must have been well acquainted too with the doctrine and the history of Jesus Christ. Seeing, also, that he records events of minor importance in the history of the Jews, it would be surprising if he were to keep silence about Jesus Christ. Consideration for the priests and Pharisees did not prevent him from mentioning the judicial murders of John the Baptist and the Apostle James; his endeavour to find the fulfilment of the Messianic prophecies in Vespasian did not induce him to pass in silence over several Jewish sects, though their tenets appear to be inconsistent with the Vespasian claims. One naturally expects, therefore, a notice about Jesus Christ in Josephus. Antiquities XVIII, iii, 3, seems to satisfy this expectation:
About this time appeared Jesus, a wise man (if indeed it is right to call Him man; for He was a worker of astonishing deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with joy), and He drew to Himself many Jews (many also of Greeks. This was the Christ.) And when Pilate, at the denunciation of those that are foremost among us, had condemned Him to the cross, those who had first loved Him did not abandon Him (for He appeared to them alive again on the third day, the holy prophets having foretold this and countless other marvels about Him.) The tribe of Christians named after Him did not cease to this day.
A testimony so important as the foregoing could not escape the work of the critics. Their conclusions may be reduced to three headings: those who consider the passage wholly spurious; those who consider it to be wholly authentic; and those who consider it to be a little of each.
Those who regard the passage as spurious
First, there are those who consider the whole passage as spurious. The principal reasons for this view appear to be the following:
· Josephus could not represent Jesus Christ as a simple moralist, and on the other hand he could not emphasize the Messianic prophecies and expectations without offending the Roman susceptibilities;
· the above cited passage from Josephus is said to be unknown to Origen and the earlier patristic writers;
· its very place in the Josephan text is uncertain, since Eusebius (Church History II.6) must have found it before the notices concerning Pilate, while it now stands after them.
But the spuriousness of the disputed Josephan passage does not imply the historian's ignorance of the facts connected with Jesus Christ. Josephus's report of his own juvenile precocity before the Jewish teachers (Vit., 2) reminds one of the story of Christ's stay in the Temple at the age of twelve; the description of his shipwreck on his journey to Rome (Vit., 3) recalls St. Paul's shipwreck as told in the Acts; finally his arbitrary introduction of a deceit practised by the priests of Isis on a Roman lady, after the chapter containing his supposed allusion to Jesus, shows a disposition to explain away the virgin birth of Jesus and to prepare the falsehoods embodied in the later Jewish writings.
Those who regard the passage as authentic, with some spurious additions
A second class of critics do not regard the whole of Josephus's testimony concerning Christ as spurious but they maintain the interpolation of parts included above in parenthesis. The reasons assigned for this opinion may be reduced to the following two:
· Josephus must have mentioned Jesus, but he cannot have recognized Him as the Christ; hence part of our present Josephan text must be genuine, part must be interpolated.
· Again, the same conclusion follows from the fact that Origen knew a Josephan text about Jesus, but was not acquainted with our present reading; for, according to the great Alexandrian doctor, Josephus did not believe that Jesus was the Messias ("In Matth.", xiii, 55; Against Celsus I.47).
Whatever force these two arguments have is lost by the fact that Josephus did not write for the Jews but for the Romans; consequently, when he says, "This was the Christ", he does not necessarily imply that Jesus was the Christ considered by the Romans as the founder of the Christian religion.
Those who consider it to be completely genuine
The third class of scholars believe that the whole passage concerning Jesus, as it is found today in Josephus, is genuine. The main arguments for the genuineness of the Josephan passage are the following:
· First, all codices or manuscripts of Josephus's work contain the text in question; to maintain the spuriousness of the text, we must suppose that all the copies of Josephus were in the hands of Christians, and were changed in the same way.
· Second, it is true that neither Tertullian nor St. Justin makes use of Josephus's passage concerning Jesus; but this silence is probably due to the contempt with which the contemporary Jews regarded Josephus, and to the relatively little authority he had among the Roman readers. Writers of the age of Tertullian and Justin could appeal to living witnesses of the Apostolic tradition.
· Third, Eusebius ("Hist. Eccl"., I, xi; cf. "Dem. Ev.", III, v) Sozomen (Church History I.1), Niceph. (Hist. Eccl., I, 39), Isidore of Pelusium (Ep. IV, 225), St. Jerome (catal.script. eccles. xiii), Ambrose, Cassiodorus, etc., appeal to the testimony of Josephus; there must have been no doubt as to its authenticity at the time of these illustrious writers.
· Fourth, the complete silence of Josephus as to Jesus would have been a more eloquent testimony than we possess in his present text; this latter contains no statement incompatible with its Josephan authorship: the Roman reader needed the information that Jesus was the Christ, or the founder of the Christian religion; the wonderful works of Jesus and His Resurrection from the dead were so incessantly urged by the Christians that without these attributes the Josephan Jesus would hardly have been acknowledged as the founder of Christianity.
All this does not necessarily imply that Josephus regarded Jesus as the Jewish Messias; but, even if he had been convinced of His Messiahship, it does not follow that he would have become a Christian. A number of possible subterfuges might have supplied the Jewish historian with apparently sufficient reasons for not embracing Christianity.
Other Jewish sources
The historical character of Jesus Christ is also attested by the hostile Jewish literature of the subsequent centuries. His birth is ascribed to an illicit ("Acta Pilati" in Thilo, "Codex apocryph. N.T., I, 526; cf. Justin, "Apol.", I, 35), or even an adulterous, union of His parents (Origen, Against Celsus I.28 and I.32). The father's name is Panthera, a common soldier (Gemara "Sanhedrin", viii; "Schabbath", xii, cf. Eisenmenger, "Entdecktes Judenthum", I, 109; Schottgen, "Horae Hebraicae", II, 696; Buxtorf, "Lex. Chald.", Basle, 1639, 1459, Huldreich, "Sepher toledhoth yeshua hannaceri", Leyden, 1705). The last work in its final edition did not appear before the thirteenth century, so that it could give the Panthera myth in its most advanced form. Rosch is of opinion that the myth did not begin before the end of the first century.
The later Jewish writings show traces of acquaintance with the murder of the Holy Innocents (Wagenseil, "Confut. Libr. Toldoth", 15; Eisenmenger op. cit., I, 116; Schottgen, op. cit., II, 667), with the flight into Egypt (cf. Josephus, "Ant." XIII, xiii), with the stay of Jesus in the Temple at the age of twelve (Schottgen, op. cit., II, 696), with the call of the disciples ("Sanhedrin", 43a; Wagenseil, op. cit., 17; Schottgen, loc. cit., 713), with His miracles (Origen, Against Celsus II.48; Wagenseil, op. cit., 150; Gemara "Sanhedrin" fol. 17); "Schabbath", fol. 104b; Wagenseil, op. cit., 6, 7, 17), with His claim to be God (Origen, Against Celsus I.28; cf. Eisenmenger, op. cit., I, 152; Schottgen, loc. cit., 699) with His betrayal by Judas and His death (Origen, "Contra cels.", II, 9, 45, 68, 70; Buxtorf, op. cit., 1458; Lightfoot, "Hor. Heb.", 458, 490, 498; Eisenmenger, loc. cit., 185; Schottgen, loc. cit., 699 700; cf. "Sanhedrin", vi, vii). Celsus (Origen, Against Celsus II.55) tries to throw doubt on the Resurrection, while Toldoth (cf. Wagenseil, 19) repeats the Jewish fiction that the body of Jesus had been stolen from the sepulchre.
Christian sources
Among the Christian sources of the life of Jesus we need hardly mention the so called Agrapha and Apocrypha. For whether the Agrapha contain Logia of Jesus, or refer to incidents in His life, they are either highly uncertain or present only variations of the Gospel story. The chief value of the Apocrypha consists in their showing the infinite superiority of the Inspired Writings by contrasting the coarse and erroneous productions of the human mind with the simple and sublime truths written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.
Among the Sacred Books of the New Testament, it is especially the four Gospels and the four great Epistles of St. Paul that are of the highest importance for the construction of the life of Jesus.
The four great Pauline Epistles (Romans, Galatians, and First and Second Corinthinas) can hardly be overestimated by the student of Christ's life; they have at times been called the "fifth gospel"; their authenticity has never been assailed by serious critics; their testimony is also earlier than that of the Gospels, at least most of the Gospels; it is the more valuable because it is incidental and undesigned; it is the testimony of a highly intellectual and cultured writer, who had been the greatest enemy of Jesus, who writes within twenty-five years of the events which he relates. At the same time, these four great Epistles bear witness to all the most important facts in the life of Christ: His Davidic descent, His poverty, His Messiahship, His moral teaching, His preaching of the kingdom of God, His calling of the apostles, His miraculous power, His claims to be God, His betrayal, His institution of the Holy Eucharist, His passion, crucifixion, burial, resurrection, His repeated appearances (Romans 1:3-4; 5:11; 8:2-3; 8:32; 9:5; 15:8; Galatians 2:17; 3:13; 4:4; 5:21; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 13:4; etc.). However important the four great Epistles may be, the gospels are still more so. Not that any one of them offers a complete biography of Jesus, but they account for the origin of Christianity by the life of its Founder. Questions like the authenticity of the Gospels, the relation between the Synoptic Gospels, and the Fourth, the Synoptic problem, must be studied in the articles referring to these respective subjects.
About this page
APA citation. Maas, A. (1910). Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved December 6, 2014 from New Advent: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Early Historical Documents On Jesus Christ
MLA citation. Maas, Anthony. "Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 8. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1910. 6 Dec. 2014 .
Transcription. This article was transcribed for New Advent by Joseph P. Thomas. In Memory of Archbishop Mathew Kavukatt.
Ecclesiastical approbation. Nihil Obstat. October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York.
Contact information. The editor of New Advent is Kevin Knight. My email address is webmaster at newadvent.org. Regrettably, I can't reply to every letter, but I greatly appreciate your feedback — especially notifications about typographical errors and inappropriate ads.
Copyright © 2012 by Kevin Knight. Dedicated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
WHICH GOD EXISTS:
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
WHICH GOD EXISTS:
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1510458 wrote:
I already debunked many of this man's false claims. It's too easy when you have the facts on your side.
I already debunked many of this man's false claims. It's too easy when you have the facts on your side.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Link to a guy who says he went to hell and back.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510479 wrote: Link to a guy who says he went to hell and back.
To hell and back?:wah::wah::wah:
To hell and back?:wah::wah::wah:
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1510480 wrote: To hell and back?:wah::wah::wah:
Did you watch the video? What are your thoughts on, not only this guys testimony, but many others that I can also post here that died physically for a time, saw hell and came back from it. Don't you think it behooves you to at least look at it?
Did you watch the video? What are your thoughts on, not only this guys testimony, but many others that I can also post here that died physically for a time, saw hell and came back from it. Don't you think it behooves you to at least look at it?
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510513 wrote: Did you watch the video? What are your thoughts on, not only this guys testimony, but many others that I can also post here that died physically for a time, saw hell and came back from it. Don't you think it behooves you to at least look at it?
It would be pointless watching the video when one knows that hell is just a tale. Same goes for stories about having been to heaven and back. I've heard those stories before and didn't believe them then.
How many videos made by atheists do you watch a week?
It would be pointless watching the video when one knows that hell is just a tale. Same goes for stories about having been to heaven and back. I've heard those stories before and didn't believe them then.
How many videos made by atheists do you watch a week?
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1510515 wrote: It would be pointless watching the video when one knows that hell is just a tale. Same goes for stories about having been to heaven and back. I've heard those stories before and didn't believe them then.
How many videos made by atheists do you watch a week?
You mean that those in hell don't know it's not real? I watch all kinds of propaganda from atheists all of the time. Science shows talking about evolution are quite common. I also went to public schools where it's all from the evolutionary perspective.
How many videos made by atheists do you watch a week?
You mean that those in hell don't know it's not real? I watch all kinds of propaganda from atheists all of the time. Science shows talking about evolution are quite common. I also went to public schools where it's all from the evolutionary perspective.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
WHICH GOD EXISTS:
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Kent Hovind on Carbon Dating and the Age of the Earth
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0591347390
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0591347390
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
The concept of satan was borrowed from the mesopotamians.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Hovind is an idiot.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
back to the theme of heaven. One must think this heaven is up in the sky some millions of light years away. LOL. As for heaven I know nothing of what happens after death.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
LarsMac;1510575 wrote: Hovind is an idiot.
That's being nice to him.:yh_doh
That's being nice to him.:yh_doh
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510525 wrote: You mean that those in hell don't know it's not real? I watch all kinds of propaganda from atheists all of the time. Science shows talking about evolution are quite common. I also went to public schools where it's all from the evolutionary perspective.
But you still insist to live a fairy tale.
But you still insist to live a fairy tale.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Ted;1510574 wrote: The concept of satan was borrowed from the mesopotamians.
No, it was in the Bible over 3,500 years ago. Even if the mesopotamians meantioned the devil, it doesn't mean that the concept originated with them. It verifies that the Bible is right and mankind knew about satan from the beginning and it was passed down to their culture.
No, it was in the Bible over 3,500 years ago. Even if the mesopotamians meantioned the devil, it doesn't mean that the concept originated with them. It verifies that the Bible is right and mankind knew about satan from the beginning and it was passed down to their culture.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
LarsMac;1510575 wrote: Hovind is an idiot.
He could debate 3 evolutionists at once and make them look dumb.
He could debate 3 evolutionists at once and make them look dumb.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510606 wrote: He could debate 3 evolutionists at once and make them look dumb.
Well, they WERE dumb. Why even debate the clown.
You know what Mr Twain said about arguing with a fool.
Well, they WERE dumb. Why even debate the clown.
You know what Mr Twain said about arguing with a fool.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
LarsMac;1510610 wrote: Well, they WERE dumb. Why even debate the clown.
You know what Mr Twain said about arguing with a fool.
That's a very closed minded thing to say. Basically, by this answer, it demonstrates how no matter how much evidence is presented to you to debunk your false beliefs, you won't believe it anyway. Is that wise? If everyone thought like that, we could never have come to the technology that we have today.
You know what Mr Twain said about arguing with a fool.
That's a very closed minded thing to say. Basically, by this answer, it demonstrates how no matter how much evidence is presented to you to debunk your false beliefs, you won't believe it anyway. Is that wise? If everyone thought like that, we could never have come to the technology that we have today.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510654 wrote: That's a very closed minded thing to say. Basically, by this answer, it demonstrates how no matter how much evidence is presented to you to debunk your false beliefs, you won't believe it anyway. Is that wise? ...
That is a very wise thing for you to say. The problem is that you believe it is the others who suffer from that affliction.
That is a very wise thing for you to say. The problem is that you believe it is the others who suffer from that affliction.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510654 wrote: That's a very closed minded thing to say. Basically, by this answer, it demonstrates how no matter how much evidence is presented to you to debunk your false beliefs, you won't believe it anyway. Is that wise? If everyone thought like that, we could never have come to the technology that we have today.
There are some BIG bull**** artists like Hovind and Ken Ham. you're just a little bull**** artist, but are just as delusional.
There are some BIG bull**** artists like Hovind and Ken Ham. you're just a little bull**** artist, but are just as delusional.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
LarsMac;1510655 wrote: That is a very wise thing for you to say. The problem is that you believe it is the others who suffer from that affliction.
That's not true though. Christians are forced to look at the other side in schools, television, universities, articles, news, ect. So, the ones refusing to look at creationist evidence are the closed minded ones. Just like right now, there are people who are trying to convince me and everyone else that the earth is flat. Do I believe that the earth is flat? No. But I am taking the time to look at their arguments to see why they believe the way that they do. Why don't you do the same thing with creationism? It's wisdom.
That's not true though. Christians are forced to look at the other side in schools, television, universities, articles, news, ect. So, the ones refusing to look at creationist evidence are the closed minded ones. Just like right now, there are people who are trying to convince me and everyone else that the earth is flat. Do I believe that the earth is flat? No. But I am taking the time to look at their arguments to see why they believe the way that they do. Why don't you do the same thing with creationism? It's wisdom.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510692 wrote: That's not true though. Christians are forced to look at the other side in schools, television, universities, articles, news, ect. So, the ones refusing to look at creationist evidence are the closed minded ones. Just like right now, there are people who are trying to convince me and everyone else that the earth is flat. Do I believe that the earth is flat? No. But I am taking the time to look at their arguments to see why they believe the way that they do. Why don't you do the same thing with creationism? It's wisdom.
I have. It's not.
I have. It's not.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1510684 wrote: There are some BIG bull**** artists like Hovind and Ken Ham. you're just a little bull**** artist, but are just as delusional.
Hovind is right. The delusion lies with the evolutionists. That's why he makes them look dumb because the truth is on his side.
Hovind is right. The delusion lies with the evolutionists. That's why he makes them look dumb because the truth is on his side.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
There are loads of so-called "Out Of Body Experiences". So much so that Southampton University Hospitals Trust ran an experiment. In a number of areas within the hospital where there was a high record of this sort of incident, such as in A&E & Recovery Rooms, etc they placed simple pictures on top of cabinets, where they could no possibly be seen from Ground Level. Then when anyone came up with the tale that they had experienced their 'soul' leaving their body & floating above the room, they asked them to describe the pictures on top of the cabinets. Not one of them was able to do so.
Lucid dreaming is very common - I do it myself whenever I can. It takes on exactly the same sort of experience - that of concious flying. You experience it when you're in that phase between conciousness & unconciousness. It is well known that oxygen starvation to the brain can bring about hallucinations. It is believed that the experience of one's life passing before one's eyes on the verge of death is an instinctive mechanism to refer back through your previous experiences to find something relative to the matter in hand in order to survive the incident. None of this is related to anything remotely mystical. It all has fully scientific explanation. The video you link two simply goes on about some bloke having drunk some contaminated water, and essentially went on a trip. In fact it's not at all dissimilar to events throughout history where water supplies have become contaminated with ergot fungus - which just happens to be the same chemical structure as LSD.
As for Hovind - he's not just an idiot - he's a nutjob - and a convicted fraudster.
Lucid dreaming is very common - I do it myself whenever I can. It takes on exactly the same sort of experience - that of concious flying. You experience it when you're in that phase between conciousness & unconciousness. It is well known that oxygen starvation to the brain can bring about hallucinations. It is believed that the experience of one's life passing before one's eyes on the verge of death is an instinctive mechanism to refer back through your previous experiences to find something relative to the matter in hand in order to survive the incident. None of this is related to anything remotely mystical. It all has fully scientific explanation. The video you link two simply goes on about some bloke having drunk some contaminated water, and essentially went on a trip. In fact it's not at all dissimilar to events throughout history where water supplies have become contaminated with ergot fungus - which just happens to be the same chemical structure as LSD.
As for Hovind - he's not just an idiot - he's a nutjob - and a convicted fraudster.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
I find it impossible to believe the Bible literally. Such a belief simply become absurd. The writeres of the Bible knew what they were writing and it is "midrash" It is not history though there are some historic incidents in the Bible. The great flood is considered a legend. That means it has some historical basis.like: The Tigris and the Euphrates did flood on occasion as do lots of rivers and lakes do flood on occasion especially during the spring melt. Thus the flood story is a legend it is not historical in the sense that it covered the whole world. What nonsense.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
If someone could tell me where it is maybe I could peek in the door and tell everyone what I saw. LOL
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Ted;1510730 wrote: If someone could tell me where it is maybe I could peek in the door and tell everyone what I saw. LOL
xfrodobloodybagginsx knows exactly where it is. He read about it in the bible.:yh_rotfl
xfrodobloodybagginsx knows exactly where it is. He read about it in the bible.:yh_rotfl
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
FourPart;1510722 wrote: There are loads of so-called "Out Of Body Experiences". So much so that Southampton University Hospitals Trust ran an experiment. In a number of areas within the hospital where there was a high record of this sort of incident, such as in A&E & Recovery Rooms, etc they placed simple pictures on top of cabinets, where they could no possibly be seen from Ground Level. Then when anyone came up with the tale that they had experienced their 'soul' leaving their body & floating above the room, they asked them to describe the pictures on top of the cabinets. Not one of them was able to do so.
Lucid dreaming is very common - I do it myself whenever I can. It takes on exactly the same sort of experience - that of concious flying. You experience it when you're in that phase between conciousness & unconciousness. It is well known that oxygen starvation to the brain can bring about hallucinations. It is believed that the experience of one's life passing before one's eyes on the verge of death is an instinctive mechanism to refer back through your previous experiences to find something relative to the matter in hand in order to survive the incident. None of this is related to anything remotely mystical. It all has fully scientific explanation. The video you link two simply goes on about some bloke having drunk some contaminated water, and essentially went on a trip. In fact it's not at all dissimilar to events throughout history where water supplies have become contaminated with ergot fungus - which just happens to be the same chemical structure as LSD.
As for Hovind - he's not just an idiot - he's a nutjob - and a convicted fraudster.
Well, there have been plenty of documented cases of people in near death experiences who HAVE been able to describe all of the details surrounding their NDE. Including things that were said and done by the EMS. I have had plenty of experiences with Out of Body type dreams where I could hear things in the room and see the entire room. When I woke up, the same thing was on the radio as I heard in the dream. It wasn't a hallucination. It's not explained by science, not true. Hovind knows his stuff and he is right. Call him what you want.
Lucid dreaming is very common - I do it myself whenever I can. It takes on exactly the same sort of experience - that of concious flying. You experience it when you're in that phase between conciousness & unconciousness. It is well known that oxygen starvation to the brain can bring about hallucinations. It is believed that the experience of one's life passing before one's eyes on the verge of death is an instinctive mechanism to refer back through your previous experiences to find something relative to the matter in hand in order to survive the incident. None of this is related to anything remotely mystical. It all has fully scientific explanation. The video you link two simply goes on about some bloke having drunk some contaminated water, and essentially went on a trip. In fact it's not at all dissimilar to events throughout history where water supplies have become contaminated with ergot fungus - which just happens to be the same chemical structure as LSD.
As for Hovind - he's not just an idiot - he's a nutjob - and a convicted fraudster.
Well, there have been plenty of documented cases of people in near death experiences who HAVE been able to describe all of the details surrounding their NDE. Including things that were said and done by the EMS. I have had plenty of experiences with Out of Body type dreams where I could hear things in the room and see the entire room. When I woke up, the same thing was on the radio as I heard in the dream. It wasn't a hallucination. It's not explained by science, not true. Hovind knows his stuff and he is right. Call him what you want.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Ted;1510728 wrote: I find it impossible to believe the Bible literally. Such a belief simply become absurd. The writeres of the Bible knew what they were writing and it is "midrash" It is not history though there are some historic incidents in the Bible. The great flood is considered a legend. That means it has some historical basis.like: The Tigris and the Euphrates did flood on occasion as do lots of rivers and lakes do flood on occasion especially during the spring melt. Thus the flood story is a legend it is not historical in the sense that it covered the whole world. What nonsense.
Like I have pointed out to you many times, Midrash didn't even come about until the 2nd Century AD, about 100 years AFTER the Bible was completed. The Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years and there was no Midrash. You are kidding yourself. The Great flood happened, that's why there are stories of it in ancient cultures all over the world. Yes, the flood covered the whole world.
Like I have pointed out to you many times, Midrash didn't even come about until the 2nd Century AD, about 100 years AFTER the Bible was completed. The Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years and there was no Midrash. You are kidding yourself. The Great flood happened, that's why there are stories of it in ancient cultures all over the world. Yes, the flood covered the whole world.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
xfrodobagginsx;1510766 wrote: Yes, the flood covered the whole world.
Impossible. There isn't enough water to cover everything. Stop telling garbage.
Impossible. There isn't enough water to cover everything. Stop telling garbage.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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Ted;1510730 wrote: If someone could tell me where it is maybe I could peek in the door and tell everyone what I saw. LOL
Where WHAT was?
Where WHAT was?
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xfrodobagginsx
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Fuzzy;1510734 wrote: xfrodobloodybagginsx knows exactly where it is. He read about it in the bible.:yh_rotfl
Yes, the Bible is God's word and is 100% true.
Yes, the Bible is God's word and is 100% true.
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xfrodobagginsx
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Fuzzy;1510781 wrote: Impossible. There isn't enough water to cover everything. Stop telling garbage.
Not true. The excess water is contained in the Polar Ice Caps. That's why even Liberal Al Gore says that if the caps all melt, it would flood the world. Think about it.
Not true. The excess water is contained in the Polar Ice Caps. That's why even Liberal Al Gore says that if the caps all melt, it would flood the world. Think about it.
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xfrodobagginsx;1510825 wrote: Not true. The excess water is contained in the Polar Ice Caps. That's why even Liberal Al Gore says that if the caps all melt, it would flood the world. Think about it.
Al Gore would know, because he read it in the ancient book of fables.:wah:
There probably would have been enough water to cover the earth had the earth been smooth and flat without mountains.
Apart from that, there are other questions. How did the Kangaroos get to Noah's huge ark and then from Mount Ararat back to Australia? Also the polar bears and the animals of the Antarctic. The bible is just so full of crap.:-5
Al Gore would know, because he read it in the ancient book of fables.:wah:
There probably would have been enough water to cover the earth had the earth been smooth and flat without mountains.
Apart from that, there are other questions. How did the Kangaroos get to Noah's huge ark and then from Mount Ararat back to Australia? Also the polar bears and the animals of the Antarctic. The bible is just so full of crap.:-5
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Fuzzy;1510827 wrote: Al Gore would know, because he read it in the ancient book of fables.:wah:
There probably would have been enough water to cover the earth had the earth been smooth and flat without mountains.
Apart from that, there are other questions. How did the Kangaroos get to Noah's huge ark and then from Mount Ararat back to Australia? Also the polar bears and the animals of the Antarctic. The bible is just so full of crap.:-5
Interesting you should say that if the earth were smooth and flat without mountains, there would be enough water to cover the earth. :-3 That's what creationists say the earth was like pre-flood. Pangea existed at the time of Noah. The flood caused the continental drift OR it happened after the flood. The Bible is just full of truth! :-6
There probably would have been enough water to cover the earth had the earth been smooth and flat without mountains.
Apart from that, there are other questions. How did the Kangaroos get to Noah's huge ark and then from Mount Ararat back to Australia? Also the polar bears and the animals of the Antarctic. The bible is just so full of crap.:-5
Interesting you should say that if the earth were smooth and flat without mountains, there would be enough water to cover the earth. :-3 That's what creationists say the earth was like pre-flood. Pangea existed at the time of Noah. The flood caused the continental drift OR it happened after the flood. The Bible is just full of truth! :-6