Religion in its highest forms has exercised a profound influence on the development of human culture. In the recognized sphere of morality, it has offered powerful motives to right conduct; it has been the chief inspiration of music, poetry, architecture, sculpture, and painting; it has been the dominant influence in the formation of a permanent literature. In all the early civilizations, the chief representatives and transmitters of the highest known culture have been the officials in charge of religious rites. Religion has been a mighty force in the life of nations, cultivating in the hearts of men a striving for better things, a healthy tone of cheerfulness, hope, joy, resignation under calamities, perseverance in the face of difficulties, a readiness for generous service, in short a spirit of highminded optimism, without which no nation can rise to greatness.
Catholic dictionary
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Saint_;1330080 wrote: On the contrary, religion is largely responsible for the civilizing influence that has made this future possible. What terrible anarchy and chaos would exist, for example, if causes like Nazism had not been defeated by the forces of religion?
As a teacher, you obviously did not even minor in History. Nazism as you call it has nothing to do with religion and are you telling us that the Greeks and Romans with their multiple gods and goddesses rather than a Christian deity made no contribution to civilization? On the other hand, I guess the Spanish and Portugese subjugation and elimination of ethnic groups in their conquest of land and riches did further civilization.:-3 And the burning of suspected witches in Salem did much to solidify faith and further progress. Onward Christian Soldiers.
As a teacher, you obviously did not even minor in History. Nazism as you call it has nothing to do with religion and are you telling us that the Greeks and Romans with their multiple gods and goddesses rather than a Christian deity made no contribution to civilization? On the other hand, I guess the Spanish and Portugese subjugation and elimination of ethnic groups in their conquest of land and riches did further civilization.:-3 And the burning of suspected witches in Salem did much to solidify faith and further progress. Onward Christian Soldiers.
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Lon;1330088 wrote: As a teacher, you obviously did not even minor in History.
True enough, but I do remember something about Constantinople and the Renaissance.
Nazism as you call it has nothing to do with religion
My point exactly, the most evil system ever invented by men was Godless.
and are you telling us that the Greeks and Romans with their multiple gods and goddesses rather than a Christian deity made no contribution to civilization?
Quite the opposite! that proves my point!
On the other hand, I guess the Spanish and Portugese subjugation and elimination of ethnic groups in their conquest of land and riches did further civilization.:-3 And the burning of suspected witches in Salem did much to solidify faith and further progress. Onward Christian Soldiers.
Of course, if you focus on the specific rather than the general you will get a slanted picture, but my point was that religion has been an overall civilizing influence.
True enough, but I do remember something about Constantinople and the Renaissance.
Nazism as you call it has nothing to do with religion
My point exactly, the most evil system ever invented by men was Godless.
and are you telling us that the Greeks and Romans with their multiple gods and goddesses rather than a Christian deity made no contribution to civilization?
Quite the opposite! that proves my point!
On the other hand, I guess the Spanish and Portugese subjugation and elimination of ethnic groups in their conquest of land and riches did further civilization.:-3 And the burning of suspected witches in Salem did much to solidify faith and further progress. Onward Christian Soldiers.
Of course, if you focus on the specific rather than the general you will get a slanted picture, but my point was that religion has been an overall civilizing influence.
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Saint you should of been a politician. You're an expert in spin
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Nazi's were not atheists, many Nazis's were Catholic and Lutheran. IF you want to call FEAR-INTIMIDATION AND THE POINT OF A SWORD as a civilizing influence that's your justification not mine. Are you saying that the ends justifies the means? So, here we are in the year 2010 with on going wars (with root causes due to religion), political corruptness and dis-honesty, chaotic financial disruption etc. If there had never ever had been a belief in any god or gods I can't imagine that we would be any worse off. Man still would have had the curiosity to sail beyond his own shores and explore the universe. Hell --- if all had been atheists, we might even be better off today.
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Saint_;1330080 wrote: On the contrary, religion is largely responsible for the civilizing influence that has made this future possible. What terrible anarchy and chaos would exist, for example, if causes like Nazism had not been defeated by the forces of religion?
Where on earth did you get the idea that nazism was defeated by the forces of religion? That would be a big surprise to the russians for one thing, the godless communists on the side of religion? ww2 war was not a war about religion any more than ww1 was.
Have a read of Mein Kampf. Hitler believed that the aryan people were chosen by god Hitler based it squarely on his view of white Aryans as the favored people of God. In fact, Hitler solemnly declares that his program of removing Jews and other "subhumans" from the earth is a divine task forced upon him by the Lord Almighty:
"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproductionof our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purityof our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the Creator of the universe."
Don't take my word for it - read it for yourself, you can download copies from the internet if you can't find it in your local bookshop.
Where do you think the justification for black slavery and organisation like the KKK get their justification for racial hatred - it's religion. God made man and he made the black man as slave.
It is inconceivable that without two thousand years of anti-semitism propagated by the christian church portraying them as the layers of christ so much hatred could have been directed at any one people. The jews got what they deserved for killing Jesus. The first use if the yellow star to identify the jew was by a Pope, not hitler - he was just following christian tradition. Even after it became clear what was happening in germany the pope did nothing to stop it. The threat of excommunication seems enough to stop the ordination of women priests, presumably it would have stopped genocide. It wasn't until the sixties the catholic church finally acknowledged that not all jews are guilty for killing Jesus.
http://www.hatikvah-center.org/events/N ... etate.html
Pope Paul VI then completed the writing of Nostra Aetate, Latin for “In Our Timesâ€, a document that defined a reassessment of the relationship between the Roman Catholic Church and non-Christian religions. A special section of Nostra Aetate was devoted to Jews and Judaism.
Nostra Aetate itself contains four significant affirmations:
It rejects the false belief that Jews are to be held responsible for the death of Jesus: “…what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today…â€
It affirms that the Covenant made by God with the Jewish people has never been broken and that the ongoing vitality of the Jewish religion is part of God’s plan: “…although the church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as repudiated or cursed by God, as if such views followed from the Holy Scriptures…â€
It rejects prejudice, hatred, oppression, and persecution of Jews: “…the church rejects every persecution against any person… and decries hatreds, persecutions, and manifestations of anti-Semitism directed against Jews at any time and by anyone…â€
Far from being anti-religious Hitler is a clear example of where religion and belief in the absurd can lead.
It's the enlightenment and the age of reason breaking the power of the church that has led that made a better future and the weaning away of people from blind allegiance to the church and the belief in the divine right of kings - the questioning of someone's right to rule based on their birth. As an american you should appreciate that more than most because without it you would never have been able to challenge the king.
Tell me of one moral or decent action that could not also be taken by someone who is a non-believer. Now think of all the atrocities that have been committed for the sake of religion and specifically the christian religion - there are innumerable examples. Just look at the middle east and the status of women - their plight is due to religion just as it used to be in europe.
Where on earth did you get the idea that nazism was defeated by the forces of religion? That would be a big surprise to the russians for one thing, the godless communists on the side of religion? ww2 war was not a war about religion any more than ww1 was.
Have a read of Mein Kampf. Hitler believed that the aryan people were chosen by god Hitler based it squarely on his view of white Aryans as the favored people of God. In fact, Hitler solemnly declares that his program of removing Jews and other "subhumans" from the earth is a divine task forced upon him by the Lord Almighty:
"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproductionof our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purityof our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the Creator of the universe."
Don't take my word for it - read it for yourself, you can download copies from the internet if you can't find it in your local bookshop.
Where do you think the justification for black slavery and organisation like the KKK get their justification for racial hatred - it's religion. God made man and he made the black man as slave.
It is inconceivable that without two thousand years of anti-semitism propagated by the christian church portraying them as the layers of christ so much hatred could have been directed at any one people. The jews got what they deserved for killing Jesus. The first use if the yellow star to identify the jew was by a Pope, not hitler - he was just following christian tradition. Even after it became clear what was happening in germany the pope did nothing to stop it. The threat of excommunication seems enough to stop the ordination of women priests, presumably it would have stopped genocide. It wasn't until the sixties the catholic church finally acknowledged that not all jews are guilty for killing Jesus.
http://www.hatikvah-center.org/events/N ... etate.html
Pope Paul VI then completed the writing of Nostra Aetate, Latin for “In Our Timesâ€, a document that defined a reassessment of the relationship between the Roman Catholic Church and non-Christian religions. A special section of Nostra Aetate was devoted to Jews and Judaism.
Nostra Aetate itself contains four significant affirmations:
It rejects the false belief that Jews are to be held responsible for the death of Jesus: “…what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today…â€
It affirms that the Covenant made by God with the Jewish people has never been broken and that the ongoing vitality of the Jewish religion is part of God’s plan: “…although the church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as repudiated or cursed by God, as if such views followed from the Holy Scriptures…â€
It rejects prejudice, hatred, oppression, and persecution of Jews: “…the church rejects every persecution against any person… and decries hatreds, persecutions, and manifestations of anti-Semitism directed against Jews at any time and by anyone…â€
Far from being anti-religious Hitler is a clear example of where religion and belief in the absurd can lead.
It's the enlightenment and the age of reason breaking the power of the church that has led that made a better future and the weaning away of people from blind allegiance to the church and the belief in the divine right of kings - the questioning of someone's right to rule based on their birth. As an american you should appreciate that more than most because without it you would never have been able to challenge the king.
Tell me of one moral or decent action that could not also be taken by someone who is a non-believer. Now think of all the atrocities that have been committed for the sake of religion and specifically the christian religion - there are innumerable examples. Just look at the middle east and the status of women - their plight is due to religion just as it used to be in europe.
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Glaswegian
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An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
ADOLPH HITLER: CHRISTIAN
'My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognised these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, Gods truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognise more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress which daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.' - Adolph Hitler
~o0o~
Saint_ wrote: What terrible anarchy and chaos would exist, for example, if causes like nazism had not been defeated by the forces of religion?
What forces of religion, Saint?
'My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognised these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, Gods truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognise more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress which daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.' - Adolph Hitler
~o0o~
Saint_ wrote: What terrible anarchy and chaos would exist, for example, if causes like nazism had not been defeated by the forces of religion?
What forces of religion, Saint?
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Oh my mistake, I was thinking of communism.
We humans can be destructive to ourselves. Many people live unhealthy lifestyles because it gives them short-term enjoyment, ignoring the long-term suffering it causes.
The same thing applies to religion. It has now, yet again, been proven that religion and belief in God make us happier and better equipped to deal with life’s troubles. Still, there are many people who would rather indulge in irreligiosity than lead a religious and therefore happier life.
Prof. Andrew Clark of the Paris School of Economics and Dr. Orsolya Lelkes of the European Centre for Social Welfare Policy and Research recently presented their research at the conference of the Royal Economic Society in Coventry, UK. They said that religious believers are happier overall than atheists or agnostics.
What I found most interesting, however, was the following discovery: regular church attendance and an active prayer life make people even happier than passive belief alone.
But wait a second: Isn’t organized religion the root of all evil?
We humans can be destructive to ourselves. Many people live unhealthy lifestyles because it gives them short-term enjoyment, ignoring the long-term suffering it causes.
The same thing applies to religion. It has now, yet again, been proven that religion and belief in God make us happier and better equipped to deal with life’s troubles. Still, there are many people who would rather indulge in irreligiosity than lead a religious and therefore happier life.
Prof. Andrew Clark of the Paris School of Economics and Dr. Orsolya Lelkes of the European Centre for Social Welfare Policy and Research recently presented their research at the conference of the Royal Economic Society in Coventry, UK. They said that religious believers are happier overall than atheists or agnostics.
What I found most interesting, however, was the following discovery: regular church attendance and an active prayer life make people even happier than passive belief alone.
But wait a second: Isn’t organized religion the root of all evil?
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
More:
Religion is good for your health. That’s the finding of this new paper (pdf) by Angus Deaton. He says:
On average, over all countries, and over countries sorted into income groups, religious people do better on a number of health and health-related indicators. These protective effects appear to be stronger the poorer is the country.
Using Gallup’s world poll, of over 350,000 people in 144 countries, he estimates that - controlling for things such as age and education - religious men are 1.7 percentage points less likely to have experienced physical pain the previous day; 4.2 percentage points more likely to say they feel energetic, and 3.2 percentage points more likely to say they are satisfied with their health.
Deaton’s paper, though, is by no means the only one to have found a positive correlation between religion and health. This paper (pdf) says:
In healthy participants, there is a strong, consistent, prospective, and often graded reduction in risk of mortality in church/service attenders.
And Mike McCullough of the University of Miami has gathered other evidence.
This is unlikely to be because God looks after his own. Instead, it’s because being religious is associated with things that are good for you. For example, in Deaton’s sample, religious men are less likely to smoke, more likely to feel they are respected by others, and more likely to be married - and these things are good for one’s health. Because these correlations are weaker for women, he found no evidence that religion improves women’s health - although the other research does find this.
It’s also the case that religious people are more likely to be extraverted and agreeable than others, and more likely to be generally happier (pdf). These things also help (pdf) us live longer.
Belief in God doesn't give us eternal life in the next world, but does seem to offer a longer life in this one.
Contrary to the impression given by Richard Dawkins, religion does seem to have some beneficial effects.
Religion is good for your health. That’s the finding of this new paper (pdf) by Angus Deaton. He says:
On average, over all countries, and over countries sorted into income groups, religious people do better on a number of health and health-related indicators. These protective effects appear to be stronger the poorer is the country.
Using Gallup’s world poll, of over 350,000 people in 144 countries, he estimates that - controlling for things such as age and education - religious men are 1.7 percentage points less likely to have experienced physical pain the previous day; 4.2 percentage points more likely to say they feel energetic, and 3.2 percentage points more likely to say they are satisfied with their health.
Deaton’s paper, though, is by no means the only one to have found a positive correlation between religion and health. This paper (pdf) says:
In healthy participants, there is a strong, consistent, prospective, and often graded reduction in risk of mortality in church/service attenders.
And Mike McCullough of the University of Miami has gathered other evidence.
This is unlikely to be because God looks after his own. Instead, it’s because being religious is associated with things that are good for you. For example, in Deaton’s sample, religious men are less likely to smoke, more likely to feel they are respected by others, and more likely to be married - and these things are good for one’s health. Because these correlations are weaker for women, he found no evidence that religion improves women’s health - although the other research does find this.
It’s also the case that religious people are more likely to be extraverted and agreeable than others, and more likely to be generally happier (pdf). These things also help (pdf) us live longer.
Belief in God doesn't give us eternal life in the next world, but does seem to offer a longer life in this one.
Contrary to the impression given by Richard Dawkins, religion does seem to have some beneficial effects.
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Religion 'linked to happy life'
Belief may make us more contented
A belief in God could lead to a more contented life, research suggests.
Religious people are better able to cope with shocks such as losing a job or divorce, claims the study presented to a Royal Economic Society conference.
Data from thousands of Europeans revealed higher levels of "life satisfaction" in believers.
However, researcher Professor Andrew Clark said other aspects of a religious upbringing unrelated to belief may influence future happiness.
What we found was that religious people were experiencing current day rewards, rather than storing them up for the future
Professor Andrew Clark
Paris School of Economics
This is not the first study to draw links between religion and happiness, with a belief among many psychologists that some factor in either belief, or its observance, offering benefits.
Professor Clark, from the Paris School of Economics, and co-author Dr Orsolya Lelkes from the European Centre for Social Welfare Policy and Research, used information from household surveys to analyse the attitudes of Christians - both Catholic and Protestant - not only to their own happiness, but also to issues such as unemployment.
Their findings, they said, suggested that religion could offer a "buffer" which protected from life's disappointments.
Professor Clark said: "We originally started the research to work out why some European countries had more generous unemployment benefits than others, but our analysis suggested that religious people suffered less psychological harm from unemployment than the non-religious.
"They had higher levels of life satisfaction".
Purpose of life
Even though churchgoers were unsurprisingly more likely to oppose divorce, they were both less psychologically affected by marital separation when it did happen, he said.
"What we found was that religious people were experiencing current day rewards, rather than storing them up for the future."
However, he said that the nature of the surveys used meant that undetected factors, perhaps in the lifestyle or upbringing of religious people, such as stable family life and relationships, could be the cause of this increased satisfaction.
The precise contribution of religion to mental health remains controversial, although there is other evidence that it does directly improve happiness, said Professor Leslie Francis, from the University of Warwick.
He said that the benefit might stem from the increased "purpose of life" felt by believers.
He said: "These findings are consistent with other studies which suggest that religion does have a positive effect, although there are other views which say that religion can lead to self-doubt, and failure, and thereby have a negative effect.
"The belief that religion damages people is still in the minds of many."
'Meaningless'
Terry Sanderson, president of the National Secular Society, which represents the interests of atheists and agnostics, said that studies purporting to show a link between happiness and religion were "all meaningless".
"Non-believers can't just turn on a faith in order to be happy. If you find religious claims incredible, then you won't believe them, whatever the supposed rewards in terms of personal fulfilment.
"Happiness is an elusive concept, anyway - I find listening to classical music blissful and watching football repulsive.
"Other people feel exactly the opposite. In the end, it comes down to the individual and, to an extent, their genetic predispositions."
But Justin Thacker, head of Theology for the Evangelical Alliance, said that there should now be no doubt about the connection between religious belief and happiness.
"There is more than one reason for this - part of it will be the sense of community and the relationships fostered, but that doesn't account for all of it.
"A large part of it is due to the meaning, purpose and value which believing in God gives you, whereas not believing in God can leave you without those things."
Belief may make us more contented
A belief in God could lead to a more contented life, research suggests.
Religious people are better able to cope with shocks such as losing a job or divorce, claims the study presented to a Royal Economic Society conference.
Data from thousands of Europeans revealed higher levels of "life satisfaction" in believers.
However, researcher Professor Andrew Clark said other aspects of a religious upbringing unrelated to belief may influence future happiness.
What we found was that religious people were experiencing current day rewards, rather than storing them up for the future
Professor Andrew Clark
Paris School of Economics
This is not the first study to draw links between religion and happiness, with a belief among many psychologists that some factor in either belief, or its observance, offering benefits.
Professor Clark, from the Paris School of Economics, and co-author Dr Orsolya Lelkes from the European Centre for Social Welfare Policy and Research, used information from household surveys to analyse the attitudes of Christians - both Catholic and Protestant - not only to their own happiness, but also to issues such as unemployment.
Their findings, they said, suggested that religion could offer a "buffer" which protected from life's disappointments.
Professor Clark said: "We originally started the research to work out why some European countries had more generous unemployment benefits than others, but our analysis suggested that religious people suffered less psychological harm from unemployment than the non-religious.
"They had higher levels of life satisfaction".
Purpose of life
Even though churchgoers were unsurprisingly more likely to oppose divorce, they were both less psychologically affected by marital separation when it did happen, he said.
"What we found was that religious people were experiencing current day rewards, rather than storing them up for the future."
However, he said that the nature of the surveys used meant that undetected factors, perhaps in the lifestyle or upbringing of religious people, such as stable family life and relationships, could be the cause of this increased satisfaction.
The precise contribution of religion to mental health remains controversial, although there is other evidence that it does directly improve happiness, said Professor Leslie Francis, from the University of Warwick.
He said that the benefit might stem from the increased "purpose of life" felt by believers.
He said: "These findings are consistent with other studies which suggest that religion does have a positive effect, although there are other views which say that religion can lead to self-doubt, and failure, and thereby have a negative effect.
"The belief that religion damages people is still in the minds of many."
'Meaningless'
Terry Sanderson, president of the National Secular Society, which represents the interests of atheists and agnostics, said that studies purporting to show a link between happiness and religion were "all meaningless".
"Non-believers can't just turn on a faith in order to be happy. If you find religious claims incredible, then you won't believe them, whatever the supposed rewards in terms of personal fulfilment.
"Happiness is an elusive concept, anyway - I find listening to classical music blissful and watching football repulsive.
"Other people feel exactly the opposite. In the end, it comes down to the individual and, to an extent, their genetic predispositions."
But Justin Thacker, head of Theology for the Evangelical Alliance, said that there should now be no doubt about the connection between religious belief and happiness.
"There is more than one reason for this - part of it will be the sense of community and the relationships fostered, but that doesn't account for all of it.
"A large part of it is due to the meaning, purpose and value which believing in God gives you, whereas not believing in God can leave you without those things."
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
There you have it, religion makes you healthier and happier. Moreover it gives your life meaning. Scientific studies prove it over and over. Sorry atheists. Seriously...I really am sorry.
I wish you could come over to the light side with us...you'd feel better honestly!:D
I wish you could come over to the light side with us...you'd feel better honestly!:DAn Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Saint_;1330506 wrote: Oh my mistake, I was thinking of communism.
We humans can be destructive to ourselves. Many people live unhealthy lifestyles because it gives them short-term enjoyment, ignoring the long-term suffering it causes.
The same thing applies to religion. It has now, yet again, been proven that religion and belief in God make us happier and better equipped to deal with life’s troubles. Still, there are many people who would rather indulge in irreligiosity than lead a religious and therefore happier life.
Prof. Andrew Clark of the Paris School of Economics and Dr. Orsolya Lelkes of the European Centre for Social Welfare Policy and Research recently presented their research at the conference of the Royal Economic Society in Coventry, UK. They said that religious believers are happier overall than atheists or agnostics.
What I found most interesting, however, was the following discovery: regular church attendance and an active prayer life make people even happier than passive belief alone.
But wait a second: Isn’t organized religion the root of all evil?
You do know that the Russians were on the winning side against the nazis don't you? You're not seriously suggestimng that the cold war was about religion are you?
posted by saint
Religion in its highest forms has exercised a profound influence on the development of human culture. In the recognized sphere of morality, it has offered powerful motives to right conduct; it has been the chief inspiration of music, poetry, architecture, sculpture, and painting; it has been the dominant influence in the formation of a permanent literature. In all the early civilizations, the chief representatives and transmitters of the highest known culture have been the officials in charge of religious rites. Religion has been a mighty force in the life of nations, cultivating in the hearts of men a striving for better things, a healthy tone of cheerfulness, hope, joy, resignation under calamities, perseverance in the face of difficulties, a readiness for generous service, in short a spirit of highminded optimism, without which no nation can rise to greatness.
Catholic dictionary
Can you come up with one thing in the sphere of morality that can be laid at the door of religion alone and would not have present without religion?
On the other hand if you like there are innumerable crimes - for want of a better word - that have been as a result of religion and would not have happened without religious belief as the justification. The bible is full of such instances but stick to relatively mopdern times if you want.
The same thing applies to religion. It has now, yet again, been proven that religion and belief in God make us happier and better equipped to deal with life’s troubles. Still, there are many people who would rather indulge in irreligiosity than lead a religious and therefore happier life.
You obviously haven't met a wee free. Smile and the devil gets in, we're not put on earth to be happy but to suffer on our way to paradise. Guilt is good for the soul - just ask ted haggard
BBC News - Why do some Catholics self-flagellate?
Or maybe it's just fun.
We humans can be destructive to ourselves. Many people live unhealthy lifestyles because it gives them short-term enjoyment, ignoring the long-term suffering it causes.
The same thing applies to religion. It has now, yet again, been proven that religion and belief in God make us happier and better equipped to deal with life’s troubles. Still, there are many people who would rather indulge in irreligiosity than lead a religious and therefore happier life.
Prof. Andrew Clark of the Paris School of Economics and Dr. Orsolya Lelkes of the European Centre for Social Welfare Policy and Research recently presented their research at the conference of the Royal Economic Society in Coventry, UK. They said that religious believers are happier overall than atheists or agnostics.
What I found most interesting, however, was the following discovery: regular church attendance and an active prayer life make people even happier than passive belief alone.
But wait a second: Isn’t organized religion the root of all evil?
You do know that the Russians were on the winning side against the nazis don't you? You're not seriously suggestimng that the cold war was about religion are you?
posted by saint
Religion in its highest forms has exercised a profound influence on the development of human culture. In the recognized sphere of morality, it has offered powerful motives to right conduct; it has been the chief inspiration of music, poetry, architecture, sculpture, and painting; it has been the dominant influence in the formation of a permanent literature. In all the early civilizations, the chief representatives and transmitters of the highest known culture have been the officials in charge of religious rites. Religion has been a mighty force in the life of nations, cultivating in the hearts of men a striving for better things, a healthy tone of cheerfulness, hope, joy, resignation under calamities, perseverance in the face of difficulties, a readiness for generous service, in short a spirit of highminded optimism, without which no nation can rise to greatness.
Catholic dictionary
Can you come up with one thing in the sphere of morality that can be laid at the door of religion alone and would not have present without religion?
On the other hand if you like there are innumerable crimes - for want of a better word - that have been as a result of religion and would not have happened without religious belief as the justification. The bible is full of such instances but stick to relatively mopdern times if you want.
The same thing applies to religion. It has now, yet again, been proven that religion and belief in God make us happier and better equipped to deal with life’s troubles. Still, there are many people who would rather indulge in irreligiosity than lead a religious and therefore happier life.
You obviously haven't met a wee free. Smile and the devil gets in, we're not put on earth to be happy but to suffer on our way to paradise. Guilt is good for the soul - just ask ted haggard
BBC News - Why do some Catholics self-flagellate?
Or maybe it's just fun.
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Quoted by Saint
There you have it, religion makes you healthier and happier.
Wasn't very healthy for the victims of the Inquisition. Wasn't very healthy for the hapless soles who happened to prefer to read the Bible in English during the 16th century. Thomas More wouldn't have any of that. Wasnt healthy to be a Jew during the 4rd Reich or a Palestinian in Gaza. It didnt make young boys happy to be molested by priests they trusted. How healthy were the poor patients in Mother Teresa's charge when she preferred that they suffer, to be closer to God
Sorry religious people. Seriously...I really am sorry. I wish you could come over to the light side with us...you'd feel better honestly!
There you have it, religion makes you healthier and happier.
Wasn't very healthy for the victims of the Inquisition. Wasn't very healthy for the hapless soles who happened to prefer to read the Bible in English during the 16th century. Thomas More wouldn't have any of that. Wasnt healthy to be a Jew during the 4rd Reich or a Palestinian in Gaza. It didnt make young boys happy to be molested by priests they trusted. How healthy were the poor patients in Mother Teresa's charge when she preferred that they suffer, to be closer to God
Sorry religious people. Seriously...I really am sorry. I wish you could come over to the light side with us...you'd feel better honestly!
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Glaswegian
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- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:07 am
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
gmc;1330554 wrote: BBC News - Why do some Catholics self-flagellate?
Or maybe it's just fun.
From another thread in this forum…
Glaswegian wrote: I think anyone who fails to see the homoeroticism which drips from Mel Gibson's The Passion Of The Christ must be either blind or wet behind the ears.
I remember watching Gibson's film in a cinema several years ago and hearing sporadic tittering among the audience as they watched an effete, diaper-clad Jesus being manhandled and whipped by muscular men in leather trimming.
RELIGION AND SEX
Flagellation has been a feature of Christianity since early times
‘Harder! Harder! You big, brawny, sultry, Roman beasts!’
(Image courtesy of Vatican Private Collection)
~o0o~
Or maybe it's just fun.
From another thread in this forum…
Glaswegian wrote: I think anyone who fails to see the homoeroticism which drips from Mel Gibson's The Passion Of The Christ must be either blind or wet behind the ears.
I remember watching Gibson's film in a cinema several years ago and hearing sporadic tittering among the audience as they watched an effete, diaper-clad Jesus being manhandled and whipped by muscular men in leather trimming.
RELIGION AND SEX
Flagellation has been a feature of Christianity since early times
‘Harder! Harder! You big, brawny, sultry, Roman beasts!’
(Image courtesy of Vatican Private Collection)
~o0o~
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Glaswegian
- Posts: 733
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:07 am
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Saint_ wrote: There you have it, religion makes you healthier and happier.
‘The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.’ - George Bernard Shaw
It is clear from what you have said in this thread, and elsewhere in the General Religious Discussions forum, that you have embraced religion out of fear and prudence - and not conviction.
Saint_ wrote: Moreover it [religion] gives your life meaning.
This speaks volumes.
Why are you incapable of providing life with meaning yourself, Saint? Why do you need religion to do this for you? Surely you cannot be so weak and unimaginative that the task of bestowing meaning on life is beyond you?
Saint_ wrote: The idea that the Universe is random and capricious…is abhorent.
Why? Because the universe does not revolve around you? Because it exists without you in mind? Why are you being so selfish and infantile? Come on now. There is no need to be frightened or to throw a tantrum just because the universe is completely indifferent to you and your ephemeral concerns on this infinitesimal speck of dust called ‘Earth‘.
‘The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.’ - George Bernard Shaw
It is clear from what you have said in this thread, and elsewhere in the General Religious Discussions forum, that you have embraced religion out of fear and prudence - and not conviction.
Saint_ wrote: Moreover it [religion] gives your life meaning.
This speaks volumes.
Why are you incapable of providing life with meaning yourself, Saint? Why do you need religion to do this for you? Surely you cannot be so weak and unimaginative that the task of bestowing meaning on life is beyond you?
Saint_ wrote: The idea that the Universe is random and capricious…is abhorent.
Why? Because the universe does not revolve around you? Because it exists without you in mind? Why are you being so selfish and infantile? Come on now. There is no need to be frightened or to throw a tantrum just because the universe is completely indifferent to you and your ephemeral concerns on this infinitesimal speck of dust called ‘Earth‘.
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
posted by saint
But wait a second: Isn’t organized religion the root of all evil?
There is no such thing as evil it's an invention of man to explain the malevolence they find in others (just as god is an invention tom explain what they could not) but it does takes religion to make a good man do evil things for the sake of good. Those 911 bombers aren't evil any more than a pilot dropping bombs on Baghdad was or a soldier kicking in a door in afghanistan is or the bomber setting a roadside bomb. They are committing murderous acts for good reasons and the men of god say nothing or stand by and cheer them on. You're religious how do you justify slaughtering innocents in the name of faith? Because christians are doing it evry bit as much as the moslems. It's only the religious that see the current set of wars as being about good and evil and therefore necessary, everyone else with half a brain wonders at the stupidity of it all
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil.
Niccolo Machiavelli
I do not concern myself with gods and spirits either good or evil nor do I serve any.
lao tzu
Lazy I know but sometimes someone else's words just seem to say things better
But wait a second: Isn’t organized religion the root of all evil?
There is no such thing as evil it's an invention of man to explain the malevolence they find in others (just as god is an invention tom explain what they could not) but it does takes religion to make a good man do evil things for the sake of good. Those 911 bombers aren't evil any more than a pilot dropping bombs on Baghdad was or a soldier kicking in a door in afghanistan is or the bomber setting a roadside bomb. They are committing murderous acts for good reasons and the men of god say nothing or stand by and cheer them on. You're religious how do you justify slaughtering innocents in the name of faith? Because christians are doing it evry bit as much as the moslems. It's only the religious that see the current set of wars as being about good and evil and therefore necessary, everyone else with half a brain wonders at the stupidity of it all
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil.
Niccolo Machiavelli
I do not concern myself with gods and spirits either good or evil nor do I serve any.
lao tzu
Lazy I know but sometimes someone else's words just seem to say things better
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Glaswegian
- Posts: 733
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:07 am
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
gmc;1330554 wrote: BBC News - Why do some Catholics self-flagellate?
Or maybe it's just fun.
POPE JOHN PAUL II
'If Jesus calls, tell him I'm on the shitter.'
(Photo courtesy of Govan Public Library)
Or maybe it's just fun.
POPE JOHN PAUL II
'If Jesus calls, tell him I'm on the shitter.'
(Photo courtesy of Govan Public Library)
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Glaswegian you appear to have a strange collection of photographs at your disposal. Do you put this down to your early experiences of religion?:sneaky:
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Glaswegian
- Posts: 733
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:07 am
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
gmc;1330698 wrote: Glaswegian you appear to have a strange collection of photographs at your disposal. Do you put this down to your early experiences of religion?:sneaky:
I’m not sure. All I can say is that the photographs are taken from The Glasgow Child’s Illustrated Bible by Donald Findlay QC.
I’m not sure. All I can say is that the photographs are taken from The Glasgow Child’s Illustrated Bible by Donald Findlay QC.
An Old Question On 200,000 Dead's Lips
Glaswegian;1330699 wrote: I’m not sure. All I can say is that the photographs are taken from The Glasgow Child’s Illustrated Bible by Donald Findlay QC.
As a rangers fan I dare say it's the masochistic side of sadomasochisim that appeals the most.
As a rangers fan I dare say it's the masochistic side of sadomasochisim that appeals the most.