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Lizzie;1515465 wrote: God is real and I believe by faith. I also know that not everybody will believe and it's not our job to convince anybody. Our job is to be ready to answer questions when asked.

1 Peter 3:15 You must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it.

Matthew 11:15 "He that has ears to hear, let them hear."




In his time, God will convince and convict this whole world. Why, because we all belong to God. And he loves us.

Ted;1515500 wrote: I most certainly can agree that Mickiel is not religious. Men like Bonhoeffer wrote "Religion less Christianity". Dianna Butler-Bass wrote "Christianity After Religion". One does not have to be Christian and religious. People can be either one or the other or both.


I used to try to be religious when I was young, but I never fit in.

And still don't fit into religion. I just was not for it, and it was not for me; and believe me, I did try!

Mickiel;1515593 wrote: I used to try to be religious when I was young, but I never fit in.

And still don't fit into religion. I just was not for it, and it was not for me; and believe me, I did try!


There's only do and not do, there's no try. Just as well you didn't try a lot harder, you might have ended up like some sort of freaky religious fanatic god person.

Mickiel;1515593 wrote: I used to try to be religious when I was young, but I never fit in.

And still don't fit into religion. I just was not for it, and it was not for me; and believe me, I did try!This sounds more like anti-social than it does non-religious. Just because you don't feel comfortable or believe you fit into a religiously social group setting doesn't mean you're not religious.

I asked for proof that you're not religious. Ted vouching for you is not proof, he doesn't know you any better than I do.

Ted;1515434 wrote: The spirit of Santa Claus is indeed very real as the spirit of God.What does this mean?

Ahso!;1515637 wrote: This sounds more like anti-social than it does non-religious. Just because you don't feel comfortable or believe you fit into a religiously social group setting doesn't mean you're not religious.

I asked for proof that you're not religious. Ted vouching for you is not proof, he doesn't know you any better than I do.


I asked for proof God is not real, when you give me that, then I'll give my proof about myself.

Fuzzy;1515636 wrote: There's only do and not do, there's no try. Just as well you didn't try a lot harder, you might have ended up like some sort of freaky religious fanatic god person.


I don't like being religious, freaky or being a fanatic person ; I like being me. I think I am different but an average different ; nothing special.

Mickiel;1515640 wrote: I asked for proof God is not real, when you give me that, then I'll give my proof about myself.Educate yourself. That's where the evidence lies. Nobody can prove this to you because you've been brainwashed and that fact leaves it up to you to find your way out if you so choose, which you don't. You'd rather wander around in the confusion imparted to you by those who supposedly loved you. Even your own Bible tells you there's no proof of any existence of any God. That's why you have to have faith.

Or didn't you read that part? If you did you obviously couldn't comprehend it. Again the comprehension issue is revealed.

Ahso!;1515645 wrote: Educate yourself. That's where the evidence lies. Nobody can prove this to you because you've been brainwashed and that fact leaves it up to you to find your way out if you so choose, which you don't. You'd rather wander around in the confusion imparted to you by those who supposedly loved you. Even your own Bible tells you there's no proof of any existence of any God. That's why you have to have faith.

Or didn't you read that part? If you did you obviously couldn't comprehend it. Again the comprehension issue is revealed.




I guess that's a no; you can't prove that God does not exist. Well why didn't you just say so.

Now, here's proof I am not religious; "Suoigiler." I just spelled religion backwards; anyone who can do that, is not religious.

Haven't you read your bible? No?

Is God real?

I would say yes, all the historical stories point to a God; human traditional stories carry a lot of historical weight.

There has always been a story about God. Always.

Mickiel;1515680 wrote: Is God real?

I would say yes, all the historical stories point to a God; human traditional stories carry a lot of historical weight.

There has always been a story about God. Always.Still trying to convince yourself, I see.

I'll bet you talk to yourself.

Ahso!;1515683 wrote: Still trying to convince yourself, I see.

I'll bet you talk to yourself.




No , I am talking to the people who view the thread; both here and I have threads all over the internet.

I like doing it. I got nothing better to do. And I have some monster threads out there; people seem to like reading them.

Mickiel;1515686 wrote: No , I am talking to the people who view the thread; both here and I have threads all over the internet.

I like doing it. I got nothing better to do. And I have some monster threads out there; people seem to like reading them.You enjoy the attention? That people read your threads, does that leave you feeling good in that you feel smart?

Ahso!;1515687 wrote: You enjoy the attention? That people read your threads, does that leave you feeling good in that you feel smart?


I do like the attention on my thoughts, yes.

It does leave me feeling good.

The attention does not make me " Feel Smart", I felt smart before I started writing.

I like it when you take the time to read my threads; I feel honored , because I think you are very intelligent and straight forward; I also enjoy it when we clash, iron sharpens iron.

I don't really know what category I'd come under. I'm certainly not Religious - more ANTI-Religious. I'm not Christian, although I find myself to be more true to theoretical Christian values than most Christians I know. I'm not even really a Spiritualist, not having any believe in any level of Supernatural entity. However, I do believe I have very high Ethical values. Is there any such thing as an Ethicalist?

FourPart;1515692 wrote: I don't really know what category I'd come under. I'm certainly not Religious - more ANTI-Religious. I'm not Christian, although I find myself to be more true to theoretical Christian values than most Christians I know. I'm not even really a Spiritualist, not having any believe in any level of Supernatural entity. However, I do believe I have very high Ethical values. Is there any such thing as an Ethicalist?




Having high ethical values is a wonderful thing.

Is God real? Is the thought of him living in your consciousness?if so, then he is real in you.

Is God real? The answer really is based on where your head is at, or what you are conscious of. We can only be conscious of those things we are conscious of. Period. And I think each of us Will eventually become conscious of god!

Mickiel;1515768 wrote: We can only be conscious of those things we are conscious of. Period. X


That is ever soooo clever. Does that mean we can't be conscious of those things we are not conscious of? It sounds a bit like: You can only do what you can do.

Well, you can't really do what you can't do, can you?

Why are all these god searchers so weird?

Fuzzy;1515826 wrote: That is ever soooo clever. Does that mean we can't be conscious of those things we are not conscious of? It sounds a bit like: You can only do what you can do.

Well, you can't really do what you can't do, can you?

Why are all these god searchers so weird?




I can't speak for others, but I know my search for God has been weird. Its been unorthodox and uncanny; my personal experience with him has been like " Seeing through a dark glass."

We can eventually be conscious of those things we are not, in time as we grow and evolve. Not being conscious of things is a present situation, not a future one. Its a now experience, other words we know what we know, now! But we can know later. If I had a 1975 knowledge and am faced with a 2000 situation, it is then beyond me and I will struggle within my consciousness. If I am a man and am faced with a female situation, a female problem, I may or may not be conscious of the solution, because I can only be conscious of, those things I am conscious of, until my consciousness grows into that knowledge and understands.

This is no " Clever speak", its simply an understanding.

Mickiel;1515832 wrote:

We can eventually be conscious of those things we are not, in time as we grow and evolve. Not being conscious of things is a present situation, not a future one. Its a now experience, other words we know what we know, now! But we can know later. If I had a 1975 knowledge and am faced with a 2000 situation, it is then beyond me and I will struggle within my consciousness. If I am a man and am faced with a female situation, a female problem, I may or may not be conscious of the solution, because I can only be conscious of, those things I am conscious of, until my consciousness grows into that knowledge and understands.


Exactly same scenario. "I do not understand how something works, therefore God did it".

I as a Christian do not accept the God of the gaps theory.

Mickiel;1515832 wrote:

This is no " Clever speak", its simply an understanding.


I don't think it's clever speak either. Sounds more like gobbledegook. But at least one of us understands it.:-3

Fuzzy;1515876 wrote: I don't think it's clever speak either. Sounds more like gobbledegook. But at least one of us understands it.:-3




Well thank you Fuzzy, you must be in good moods today!

Mickiel we have a new clergy person in our church. She has a PHd in Astronomy and a PHD in Physics. Very interesting.

Ted;1515921 wrote: Mickiel we have a new clergy person in our church. She has a PHd in Astronomy and a PHD in Physics. Very interesting.




Yes indeed, I would certainly look to get to know her and have conversations with her.

Is God real? Oh what a question, very hard to realize at first glance. God is not the kind of being that readily reveals himself, not quite sure why that is. He could settle the matter of him being real in seconds if he wanted to, he just does not. I have believed in him for 55 years, and he never has spoken to me but once; and that was this year, only 9 words were said to me. So I know how God can be with the communication thing. He will inspire the consciousness, yes; and motivate the mind through many, many means, but the direct personal contact, hey, in my experience, it just is not there much. He'll starve you in that area.

So we have to take what we can get, and understand it when others get frustrated with that and don't believe in him.

Mickiel;1515998 wrote: Is God real? Oh what a question, very hard to realize at first glance. God is not the kind of being that readily reveals himself, not quite sure why that is.




I know why and you already know what I'm trying to say.:yh_wink

Oh why oh why can't god be real? Since he's all powerful, why oh why can't he reveal himself? Is it because he failed to create a world to our satisfaction?

Is he afraid to show his face in case he'll get stoned by us humble humans?

Or is it just because he is nothing but a crutch for most of our brothers and sisters trying to make sense of their being?

Questions upon questions, impossible to be answered satisfactorily. But life goes on. (Ah well until it stops):driving:

Fuzzy;1516086 wrote: I know why and you already know what I'm trying to say.:yh_wink

Oh why oh why can't god be real? Since he's all powerful, why oh why can't he reveal himself? Is it because he failed to create a world to our satisfaction?

Is he afraid to show his face in case he'll get stoned by us humble humans?

Or is it just because he is nothing but a crutch for most of our brothers and sisters trying to make sense of their being?

Questions upon questions, impossible to be answered satisfactorily. But life goes on. (Ah well until it stops):driving:




God is used as a crutch; and I understand that. Hey, people are trying to walk through this stuff called life and the mystery of it. Their trying to understand.

Mickiel;1516088 wrote: God is used as a crutch; and I understand that. Hey, people are trying to walk through this stuff called life and the mystery of it. Their trying to understand.
There might be uncertainties in life but there isn't any mystery. You only think that because you choose to be confused by believing myths (crutch). The effort should be in educating instead of conditioning oneself.

I understand some of you Christians like to think you're mystics or fantasize that you're the wise old men who live secluded high up (alone behind your computer screen) in the mountains (of your mind) and come down to grace our presence with your wisdom, but that too is a crutch.

You all think you sound so clever and smart, but you don't. That too is a fantacy.

Ahso!;1516090 wrote: There might be uncertainties in life but there isn't any mystery. You only think that because you choose to be confused by believing myths (crutch). The effort should be in educating instead of conditioning oneself.

I understand some of you Christians like to think you're mystics or fantasize that you're the wise old men who live secluded high up (alone behind your computer screen) in the mountains (of your mind) and come down to grace our presence with your wisdom, but that too is a crutch.

You all think you sound so clever and smart, but you don't. That too is a fantacy.


I am not a Christian , and I grow so tired of you trying to label me everything except what I am. You don't know how to define people, you should stop trying. You got this serious need to define others, and then you define them wrong.

Goodness!

Mickiel;1516098 wrote: I am not a Christian , and I grow so tired of you trying to label me everything except what I am. You don't know how to define people, you should stop trying. You got this serious need to define others, and then you define them wrong.

Goodness!


You mean, he who defines others defines himself?

Why don't you like being defined by others?

I love defining others and being defined in return.

I don't find anything wrong with that.

You also seem to dislike sarcasm.

Is there something that you really like?

I mean apart from wondering whether the old bloke exists or not.

And did you know that sarcasm is the only way one can deal with Christians?

Their tunnel vision won't let them look at logic.:yh_angel:yh_worshp

Fuzzy;1516171 wrote: You mean, he who defines others defines himself?

Why don't you like being defined by others?

I love defining others and being defined in return.

I don't find anything wrong with that.

You also seem to dislike sarcasm.

Is there something that you really like?

I mean apart from wondering whether the old bloke exists or not.

And did you know that sarcasm is the only way one can deal with Christians?

Their tunnel vision won't let them look at logic.:yh_angel:yh_worshp




I am not a Christian, so I would not know how to deal with them.

And in my view, never let anyone define you.

I define myself; and that is just how it is.

What concept of God are we trying to define?

Ted;1516288 wrote: What concept of God are we trying to define?




I would entertain any concept that is brought forth into the thread. Again in my view, God cannot be contained in just one concept; he is just expanding and slowly revealing more things as we even speak. We cannot define what we don't know. And what we do know is difficult to define, because often it does not make sense, .and remember this is just my view, others have many views.

I see God, if He/She/It exists to be beyond human language and understanding. I have no problem in accepting the reality of God personally. Sometimes, on both sides of the fence some become so narrow minded they cannot see the forest for the trees.

Ted;1516311 wrote: I see God, if He/She/It exists to be beyond human language and understanding. I have no problem in accepting the reality of God personally. Sometimes, on both sides of the fence some become so narrow minded they cannot see the forest for the trees.


I see God a little, and I agree that he is beyond human understanding. In Isaiah 40:17 it says all nations before him are as nothing, and they are counted to him as less than nothing and meaningless. Wow, less than nothing; good grief! Nothing is zero, but less than nothing is going beyond my ability to count.

Mickiel;1516316 wrote: I see God a little, and I agree that he is beyond human understanding. In Isaiah 40:17 it says all nations before him are as nothing, and they are counted to him as less than nothing and meaningless. Wow, less than nothing; good grief! Nothing is zero, but less than nothing is going beyond my ability to count.


In Isaiah 52:10 it states ALL the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of God! Again the bible reveals the future of humanity to be all inclusive salvation. A wonderful thing to understand, and a marvel that is so little understood or believed to be real.

The fact is that humans know nothing of an after life. It is all a hope to many folks. Could be so also could not be so.

Ted;1516441 wrote: The fact is that humans know nothing of an after life. It is all a hope to many folks. Could be so also could not be so.




Well it is a Hope. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with a person Hoping about things which concern God. The bible gives many verses concerning hope; 1 Corinth. 13:7, " Hope all things!" Its a wonderful way to see into the future, using hope as your guide!

Mickiel;1516466 wrote: Well it is a Hope. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with a person Hoping about things which concern God. The bible gives many verses concerning hope; 1 Corinth. 13:7, " Hope all things!" Its a wonderful way to see into the future, using hope as your guide!And it also feeds falsehoods. What's wrong with blind hope, which is what you're talking about, is that it ends up that your entire life was lived believing untruths. You might not consider that much, but I sure do.

Ahso!;1516468 wrote: And it also feeds falsehoods. What's wrong with blind hope, which is what you're talking about, is that it ends up that your entire life was lived believing untruths. You might not consider that much, but I sure do.




I hope that my children will do well in life

I hope that my family will live long good lives

I hope that one day racism will end

I hope that I can loose some weight

I hope that one day God will reveal himself to everyone.

Mickiel;1516476 wrote: I hope that my children will do well in life

I hope that my family will live long good lives

I hope that one day racism will end

I hope that I can loose some weight

I hope that one day God will reveal himself to everyone."[H]ope" is a poor substitute for action, which is required for any endeavor. The first four on your list are achievable (or at least workable) and measurable because success can be gauged. Not so with number five as this is not achievable because God is not revealed, and that's because God is nonexistent on any level outside of "hope" or imagination (delusion). There's a difference, though it's no surprise a cultist would include a hope in a myth with hopeful results from a working exercise.

Mickiel I agree with you on hope.

That is all one can do when searching for that particular imaginary friend. HOPE and pray that it will jump into existence and answer all those hopey thoughts.

It is pretty hopeless, not even a good psychiatrist can help you there. You really are hopelessly doomed.

So....I'd say, never give up hope.:yh_wink

Fuzzy;1516538 wrote: That is all one can do when searching for that particular imaginary friend. HOPE and pray that it will jump into existence and answer all those hopey thoughts.

It is pretty hopeless, not even a good psychiatrist can help you there. You really are hopelessly doomed.

So....I'd say, never give up hope.:yh_wink


You are so wrong, somebody keeps selling you bridges, and you keep buying them; These psychiatrist and scientist have helped me;

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lists_of_c ... scientists

I have enough faith in God existence. Though we don't see God. But God is everywhere I believe.

I can't see him, but he's definitely there. A lot of people say so. It must be so.

Fuzzy;1516699 wrote: I can't see him, but he's definitely there. A lot of people say so. It must be so.




I can't see God either, but I can see stars that are millions of miles away, with my own eyes.

Look man, that did not create itself. I can't see the ability to see millions of miles away, evolving straight from the weakness of nothing, after forming a human body from years of nothing, and topping it off with a head that just so happens to be smart enough to create its own blood and veins and bones and muscles.

Naw man, I can't get to a world devoid of a God. Its just TOO MUCH here man!

Hey, How could I hold my own with a mind like yours, if I did not have one myself. To you your interpretations, and to me mine. But I kind of like how you think ;; sometimes.