Do you believe in GOD?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:27 am

Then of course, you get to school & learn about evolution and the science doesn't gell with the religion. I have always classed myself as someone who believed in God but there was always the science bit in the back of my mind.

I can never understand the logic of that one. Evolution can also be the miraculous workings of God, the mechanism used of you like. Evolution and god don't go together if you feel it necessary to believe that some super being clapped his hands and the earth was created in seven days. If you can accept that the creation myth in the bible is not necessaril the unchanged word of God and may just be a way of explaining the unexplainable How does being aware of evolution somehow make you less of a believer? It is not a logical decision, you believe ir you don't.

If believing in god means you must accept blindly the bible as literal then you have a problem being a christian because an eye for an eye has no place in christianity, neither does intolerance and a willingmess to condemn those who's lifestyle you disapprove of.

God and religon are sometimes mutually exclusive.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:07 am

capt_buzzard wrote: I always notice the Christian & Muslin use the HE - in HIS own image. The Male God.

That's an old one, capt_buzzard - does then the word "mankind" refer only

to the male sex?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:24 pm

Why is it that discussions about God end up trying to decide if God is a male or a female? I think He could have been a She but He isn't. His creation has to have order to survive. To have order there has to be an ultimate in power, honor, love, glory and so on. The one that holds those "ultimates" must be definable to us. Our understanding of Him comes in large part from understanding His role. His role is that of Father. Fathers are male. Our understanding of the very basics of our salvation as Christ taught us, depends on understanding God in the role of Father. Our culture in the U.S. is begining to fail because we are refusing to accept the order of creation with the Father/father in His/his proper place. When we start chipping our teeth because we think God is the wrong gender we are really saying we think we are God and it's time for ALL others to conform to our way of thinking.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:04 pm

I subscribe to Messianic Judaism myself. Niether Judaism nor Islam believe God is female. As a matter of fact, belief in a female god is very rare, held only by the most rebellious.

We are punished because we become arrogant. We think we can find our own way and design our own God. Even religions I personally don't believe are true bring order to the culture that forms around them. Without God we follow the wandering ways of men and ultimately wander into quicksand.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:44 am

since god does not procreate, i don't see any reason for 'him' to have either a vagina or a penis.

everybody talks about god, but nobody does anything about it.

:yahoo_los

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:24 am

God makes all things that grow fertile. He created and He creates so He certainly does procreate. It doesn't matter to me what organs He possesses either. What does matter to me is that we maintain a culture where someone takes responsibility. Folloing God's model, fathers in the microcosm of humanity called the family need to be taking ultimate responsiblity. Ultimate responsibility cannot be shared. The one who possesses it, must be recognized as having it and employ it with love.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:37 am

Colinc wrote:

Nothing like hard times to increase the number of believers

Nothing like good times to decrease the number
i'm not so sure that formula works very well. all too often - hard times increase some people's desire to turn to a god for solace. good times, well, they're the blessings of god, so people rejoice at same.

then for others, hard times mean god has turned 'his' back on them - so they turn away. and for others, good times mean they don't need god any more.

i've see all four ways of thinking at one time or another.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:51 am

Yes, I believe in God. God has no form but His followers (Bhakta) force Him to assume form. And He, driven by His love for His Bhakta assumes a form as desired by His Bhakta. There was no time when God was not there. There will be no time when God will not be there. All human beings are His manifestation. The ultimate aim of human beings is to reach Him.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:09 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Muslims are now mounting to 37.000 members in Ireland and growing. That leaves other religions i.e. Mormans,Hindo's and other small groups.

Allow me to correct the spelling of Hindo. The correct spelling is HINDU. Hindu religion is a way of life. It guides people how to conduct themselves in life and to have a positive relationship with other people. A Hindu believes that different people worship God in different ways, but the ultimate aim of all is to reach Him.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:21 am

anastrophe wrote: Hard times increase some people's desire to turn to a God for solace and good times. For others, hard times mean God has turned 'his' back on them - so they turn away. Yet for others, good times mean they don't need God any more.

Yes, it is the irony of being human-beings. We forget that we are a manifestation of God. We give credit to ourselves for every thing good in our life. But when things start going wrong, we start blaming Him - God has not been kind to me. Yet again, when we face problems we start praying to Him to remove the problems. This is life. All these phases are a part of everybody's life.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:41 pm

Thank you Colinc

I am looking forward to a good and meaningful discussion on the forum.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:14 pm

only fools do not believe in Yahua

Never heard of him does that make me a fool? (just joking I presume you mean Yahweh or the god of the old testament) I would suggest that only a complete idiot would such a vindictive, capricious, hard hearted individual as a god.

I once got ejected from sunday school after a lesson on the trials of job because when asked what i thought the moral of the story was i said it showed what a nasty **** god was to do that to a loyal follower just to prove a point. God forbid you should express such opinions in church. What was the point in having a sunday school if you can't take the time to answer perfectly reasonable questions raised by eight year olds.

i'm not so sure that formula works very well. all too often - hard times increase some people's desire to turn to a god for solace. good times, well, they're the blessings of god, so people rejoice at same.

then for others, hard times mean god has turned 'his' back on them - so they turn away. and for others, good times mean they don't need god any more.

i've see all four ways of thinking at one time or another.

There's a thing if you are suffering because of the actions of another who believes he is doing god's will who do you turn to then as it would appear that god is not on your side?

What do you say to jews and muslims who both think they have a right ti live in the holy land and are prepared to kill each other to make thier point. Or to christians and muslims that from time to time think it is god's will that they kill unbelievers?

Maybe the question should not be do you believe in god but rather do you believe in religon?

My answer would be undecided but tending to yes perhaps for the first and an emphatic no for the latter. But I won't kill you for disagreeing with me or condemn you to everlasting damnation.

.

Nor will i try to do something nasty in forty days time because I believe some book written in ancient aramaic and translated umpteem times with the attitudes and prejudices of the translator not to mention being very careful not to say anything to offend the high heid yins of the church at the time is the unchanged word of God handed down through the ages.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:35 pm

No! :-2

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:09 am

Colinc wrote: But isn't it great that we have a choice to believe or not.

From what i recall of the Old Testament non believers were not really given a choice..it was believe or be damned

A Hindu has a choice, to believe in God and not to believe in God. Hindu religion is in fact a way of life. It guides people to how to conduct themselves in life and what should be their relationship with other people. A person goes to a temple, and another person does not go to a temple. Both are Hindu. A person worships God, and another person abuses God. Both are Hindus. In Hinduism, every act of a human being is worship to God. It is up to the individual how he worships God. The promary aim of every human being is to reach God, and for this he or she can follow any path suitable to them. Will you believe if I say that non-believers are the true believers of God?

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:22 am

absolutely true to the above, but in hasty times, we all forget about religion and church, it does not mean we are not good people, our previous family & myself years passed - attended church on a regular basis. i respect your beliefs, but we do not participate in religion presently. i have had religious instruction, i believe and don;t...sorry, thats my opinion...

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:12 am

Colinc wrote: Suresh

I am having trouble understanding your point here. Being trained as a scientist i can argue

1. We are all believers whether we know it or not

BUT....if i take it literally it could imply that believers are not true believers...ie i have just taken the opposite of your quote

This doesnt seem right to me. But maybe i am being overcomplicated here?

Dear Colinc

Glad to know that you are a scientist. I am myself a scientist but presently engaged in training and consulting on management systems.

You are right that we are all believers whether we know it or not. This is another way of partly saying that non-believers are true believers. But it should not be understood as believers are not true believers. In Hindu society, we have Aastik (a believer) and Naastik (a non-believer). Both are Hindus. Aastiks are not generally found declaring that they believe in God. But Naastiks are frequently found claiming that they do not believe in God. Now why Naastiks consider it necessary to make such claims? Does it not imply that they believe in God but due to their ego or a desire to be different from others they keep making such claims?

One can look at it in another way. Person 'A' loves another person 'B', and 'B' hates another person 'C'. But can 'B' hate 'C' if he does not exist? And if 'B' accepts 'C''s existence then whether 'B' loves 'C' or hates 'C' is only a temporary phonomenon based on available situations. Today 'B' hates 'C' but tomorrow he may start loving him if situation changes to suit this.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:20 am

Paula wrote: Absolutely true to the above, but in hasty times, we all forget about religion and church, it does not mean we are not good people

No it does not mean that you are not a good person. Our relationship with other people is not dependent on Religion or going to Church. It depends on how we feel about each other. And if we have good relationship with other people then we are good people.

Suppose a person behaves as a very religious person and goes regularly to Churh but does not have good relationaship with others. Will he be known as a good person? In my opinion, NO.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:07 am

this type of chat is nonsense to me, this is how trouble starts, do you believe or not? and so what - end of story, to pick apart something is ridiculous, too much time on the hands...bye, bye................. :-5 :rolleyes:

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:02 am

Colinc wrote: "surely a good relationship is judgemental" what to one partner might be good ..to the other partner might be the opposite.

How would you define good?:

A good relationship grows from within. If a relationship is good to one partner but harmful to other partner then it no relationship at all. Good relationship believes in giving not taking. It is a two way traffic. In a good relationship, both partners feel for each other to such an extent that if one is hurt other feels the pain. They take each other as they are. They don't force their views on each other. It is a very nice experience. It is difficult to express in words.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:46 am

no problem, thats what i'm here for... :wah: :wah: :wah:

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:26 pm

soulja1906 wrote: science is the pursuit of truth. considering this, science is not the enemy of "religion" (for lack of a better word because religion is so messed up). it doesn't surprise me that some people do not believe in God. however, they are wrong. i dont honestly know what God is going to do with those people. i hope that when they die, they will wake to see God standing in front of them saying, "i know that it was confusing down there. i forgive you. welcome home."

You are right that science should not be seen in conflict with religion. If religion looks messed up to some people then it is no body's fault. They themselves are responsible for that. I always feel surprised when people say that they do not belive in God. We all are images of God. How one of us can say that he does not believe in his own reality?

And meeting God is not that simple as you have made it. God is always forgiving, but His forgiveness will come only when we prove ourselves deserving for that.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:31 pm

soulja1906 wrote: i dont go to church anymore. a lot of people say that i should and that i shouldn't "forsake the fellowship." but, ive been hurt too many times by religion. i think they're way off track. but i will never turn my back on God and have committed myself to the seeking of truth and the fight for good in these last days.

Not going to churh does not mean that you don't believe in God. But I do not agree that one can be hurt by religion. If we feel hurt by religion then there must be some lack of understanding about religion. I will like to congratulate you on your decision that you will always believe in God and seek truth and fight for good. Seeking truth is seeking God.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:22 am

I believe in God. I believe He has revealed Himself to us through the Bible, though this revelation is given in a mysterious way for a purpose. We are all selfish. All who reject God do so for selfish reasons, for example, Ã¢â‚¬Å“I want my own way and donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want GodÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s law telling me what to do and what not to do,Ã¢â‚¬ or "I want to be in charge." All of us who accept God also do so for selfish reasons, for example, Ã¢â‚¬Å“I want to go to heaven and IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m afraid of dying,Ã¢â‚¬ or, Ã¢â‚¬Å“I need healing,Ã¢â‚¬ or Ã¢â‚¬Å“IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m lonely,Ã¢â‚¬ or whatever. WeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re all the same. WeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re selfish. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s where all misinterpretation of the Bible, and misunderstanding of God comes from.

But God loves every one of us more intensely than we can love Him back, more intensely than we can even imagine. He desires for us to achieve the greatest happiness. He wants to live with us in an Edenic Utopia forever. But we are so messed up and selfish and rebellious that we need to change spiritually (I include myself in this as much as anyone here). As it is, our attitudes and behaviors donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t fit us to live with God. This frustrates God immensely. So here is this great spirit, who is eternal and omnipresent and all powerful, who created us, who is our loving parent, who is trying to win us lovingly into a relationship with Him, and we are too busy and selfish and rebellious.

He set up a way for us to find Him and be restored into a relationship with Him. He designed this way with all itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s mysteries to weed out our selfishness- and unfortunately but unavoidably it weeds us out if we ultimately cling to our selfishness. For those of us who are still following- if we are really following, the way gets painful because it hurts to change. But there is also joy in it. There is torment and pleasure and change, just as there is in any love relationship. This isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t merely some intellectual exercise, or like joining a club and learning their silly slogans and gestures. A person who is experiencing it cannot adequately describe it to someone who is not. You can only tell if a person is having this experience by the changes it brings in them. And it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t change a person all at once, but slowly, in stages, as fast or as far as they are willing.

Yes I believe in God. But when I say Ã¢â‚¬Å“believe,Ã¢â‚¬ IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m talking about something very complex and mysterious- something that tortures me and thrills me with delight- something that is changing me. To believe in God is larger than having some concept of reality- it is something all-consuming and overwhelming. It has become my whole life.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:44 pm

telaquapacky wrote: I believe in God. I believe He has revealed Himself to us through the Bible, .........Yes I believe in God. But when I say Ã¢â‚¬Å“believe,Ã¢â‚¬ IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m talking about something very complex and mysterious-

God is one, different people approach Him in different ways. All are praying Him to reach him and become One with Him. There is nothing complex and mysterious about Him. It is we who have made Him complex and mysterious. He is just like a child who wil be pleased even by your smile. Love all those who have been created by Him. This love will be multiplied by Him and returned to you.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:57 pm

soulja1906 wrote: suresh, i never said that is how it happens. how would I know? how would you know? i said thats how i HOPE it happens.

and to feel hurt by religion means we must have some lack of understanding of religion? thats not true. what God asks of us is not religion, it is relationship. you can keep religion, i'll have no part in it.

Dear soulja, The word 'religion' has been coined by people not God. One name given to relationship with God, as perceived by the people, can be religion. You can use any name. It does not matter. What matters is what God asks us, and you are right in saying that He asks us to have a positive relationship with other people. Love them all and He is happy.

But why do say that you will have no part of religion? Religion is not a commodity which you can keep or discard. It is your way of life, your behaviour with others.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:47 am

soulja1906 wrote: i feel ya suresh. i think we're on the same page. maybe just a linguistic barrier there. probably comes down to the definition of the word. when i think of religion, i think of traditions, technicalities, and denominational labels.

I feel that religion is a concept, a way of life; and traditions are practical aspects of the teachings of religion. Traditions may change with time but religion never changes.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:59 am

soulja1906 wrote: okay, never mind what i said earlier. we disagree.

I am sorry I don't understand. I don't find any disagreement between your and my opinion.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:14 am

soulja1906 wrote: when Jesus spoke of the Pharisees, he labeled them as "religious." what he meant by this is that they pay more attention to their man-made laws and traditions than they do to their relationship with God, if they had one at all.

The basic concept is same. Different people express it in different ways depending on the situation, place and social organization.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:25 am

Originally posted by suresh

God is one, different people approach Him in different ways. All are praying Him to reach him and become One with Him. There is nothing complex and mysterious about Him. It is we who have made Him complex and mysterious. He is just like a child who wil be pleased even by your smile. Love all those who have been created by Him. This love will be multiplied by Him and returned to you.

Suresh,

Your posts... I don't want to turn you off by flattery. I see His spirit in you. I only wish all Christians had the Christlike attitudes you have. As King David wrote in the Psalms, "I am a man of peace; but when I speak, they are for war."

The Christian prophets predicted an end of our imperfect world, and the beginning of the perfect one. They predicted that false Christians will actually bring about the end of the world. "Christians" will oppress the whole world in the name of Christ, by forcing them to go along with their man made rules of worship. The minority of true Christians, and persons like yourself, who are spiritually like Christ because they truly know God will be persecuted. The prophets predicted all of this which has in fact been happening throughout history even to today. Their predictions have been coming true like clockwork. I know you are not interested in this in the least.

I want to beg your forgiveness and patience on behalf of my professed people. Christ is not divided, but Christianity definitely is. This is just as the prophets said it would be. I pray that you and others will not judge Christ by the cruel behavior of so many of those who think they follow Him. There is a "believing" in God, where one thinks they follow Him but their hearts are far from Him, and then in contrast, there is the genuine article. Love is what sets them apart. Love does no harm to it's neighbor.

Hold on to your sprit of love whatever happens. If I hold onto my spirit of love we will one day shake hands in Paradise. Pray for me, my brother.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:03 am

telaquapacky wrote: The Christian prophets predicted an end of our imperfect world, and the beginning of the perfect one. .........Pray for me, my brother.

I believe that the creation (world) has no beginning and no end. There is nothing like imperfact world or perfact world. It is the people who are perfact or imperfact. I pray for all human beings and you are already there in my prayers.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:36 pm

Thanks, Suresh.

Agreed that we have to act as if this present world has some potential, otherwise no one would ever do anything for the planet. To believe the Lord is coming and making all things new gives us no excuse to heap abuse on the earth, and apathy towards others. Godliness is revealed in those who are taking action to make the world a better place- even against all odds.

At the same time, humankind will never solve their problems by their own efforts, smarts or goodnesses. We aren't strong, smart or good enough. In the end it will take a higher power to bring justice and eternal peace. I am not satisfied with the world or with humanity as it is. I am not satisfied with myself as I am. God promised the world a miracle, and it will happen whether we hold Him to it or not. On the other hand, the miracle He promised to change each one of us and fit us for that new world will depend on our cooperation.

You don't agree with me about an end of the world, and that's fine with me. Just keep your loving point of view and showing kindness. That's what counts.