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jimbo;646153 wrote: another good post jess



how the feck does any one think they have the right to inflict that on another human being because they have a dirty filthy disgusting selfish habit is beyond me


I've been refraining from saying this for a while now, but now's the time. Smokers and those opposing bans want to know why they should be inconvenienced/ostracized just to pacify nonsmokers,

Ok the non PC version is thus:

Because smoking is wrong.

You're doing something stupid and wrong that hurts others.

Who cares if it hurts YOU, you're harming others and those others are not in the wrong to want to eat where they want and go stand in the fresh air they want to stand in. SMOKERS have the problem/are the problem, not the anti's. I'm not pulling ethics or self righteousness here, but I am saying common sense dictates that if you're sucking in sh*t that will kill you then you're the fool and someone else's lungs come far beyond your restaurant/pub net worth and your "personal rights" to do what you want to do.

Jesse, you're on a roll. Good posts, Yang!

RedGlitter;646167 wrote: I've been refraining from saying this for a while now, but now's the time. Smokers and those opposing bans want to know why they should be inconvenienced/ostracized just to pacify nonsmokers,



Ok the non PC version is thus:



Because smoking is wrong.

You're doing something stupid and wrong that hurts others.

Who cares if it hurts YOU, you're harming others and those others are not in the wrong to want to eat where they want and go stand in the fresh air they want to stand in. SMOKERS have the problem/are the problem, not the anti's. I'm not pulling ethics or self righteousness here, but I am saying common sense dictates that if you're sucking in sh*t that will kill you then you're the fool and someone else's lungs come far beyond your restaurant/pub net worth and your "personal rights" to do what you want to do.



Jesse, you're on a roll. Good posts, Yang!




er thats how i meant to say it red:o





well put as ever:-6

jimbo;646168 wrote: er thats how i meant to say it red:o





well put as ever:-6


:o Thanks Jimbo :-6

Ive already said i am a smoker & that i support the smoking ban however, i'd like to say some of you non smokers out there are damright rude when we smokers are smoking outside nowhere near you :rolleyes:

(not aimed at anyone in this thread, just in general)

Ive had a lady come up to me whilst im on a break at work & outside smoking say -

Take that disgusting thing out your mouth, its people like you who are killing the rest of us.

I on the other hand did not say - Take that disgusting dress off, your far too old & fat to wear it & its people like you that give scottish fashion a bad name.

Its none of my business what she chooses to wear.

I have made an informed choice to smoke, i am complying with the laws, the only home i smoke in is my own, the rest of the time im outside. I should not have my precious smoke time interupted or spoiled by non smoking nuts

buttercup;646171 wrote: Ive already said i am a smoker & that i support the smoking ban however, i'd like to say some of you non smokers out there are damright rude when we smokers are smoking outside nowhere near you :rolleyes:

(not aimed at anyone in this thread, just in general)

Ive had a lady come up to me whilst im on a break at work & outside smoking say -

Take that disgusting thing out your mouth, its people like you who are killing the rest of us.

I on the other hand did not say - Take that disgusting dress off, your far too old & fat to wear it & its people like you that give scottish fashion a bad name.

Its none of my business what she chooses to wear.

I have made an informed choice to smoke, i am complying with the laws, the only home i smoke in is my own, the rest of the time im outside. I should not have my precious smoke time interupted or spoiled by non smoking nuts


Well, I agree that is rude and at most she should have asked you to put it out if in fact you were near her. In that case I doubt the nonsmoker is rude, but that the person is rude in general.

I have no prob with people smoking in their houses and cars unless kids are around. They can do what they want in their own space. But I don't really think at all that it's the nonsmokers who are nuts.

RedGlitter;646173 wrote: Well, I agree that is rude and at most she should have asked you to put it out if in fact you were near her. In that case I doubt the nonsmoker is rude, but that the person is rude in general.

I have no prob with people smoking in their houses and cars unless kids are around. They can do what they want in their own space. But I don't really think at all that it's the nonsmokers who are nuts.


Ask me to put it OUT???????? I'm outside, its a big street, walk at the other side, thats what i would do if a big scary looking dog was in my way.

I understand you thinking smoking is nuts Red, in many ways it is, however i'm an adult & know all the dangers, i choose to do it. Im not saying everyone who is against smoking is nuts. I'm saying there are non smoking nuts like there are religious nuts, do you understand what i mean?

buttercup;646176 wrote: Ask me to put it OUT???????? I'm outside, its a big street, walk at the other side, thats what i would do if a big scary looking dog was in my way.

I understand you thinking smoking is nuts Red, in many ways it is, however i'm an adult & know all the dangers, i choose to do it. Im not saying everyone who is against smoking is nuts. I'm saying there are non smoking nuts like there are religious nuts, do you understand what i mean?


Yes Buttercup I do understand, but I think you misunderstood what I said. I said *at the most* the woman should have *asked* you politely to put it out, if she was going to ask at all. Not that she was necessarily in the right to ask you to put it out while you were outside and certainly not that she had a right to be rude about it. I would have been p.issed too.

Thanks for clarifing that Red. :-6

buttercup;646181 wrote: Thanks for clarifing that Red. :-6




yes but her horriblr dress was hardly likely to give you cancer was it



v

v













ha ha just kidding you smoking nuts are soooo defensive you look for a fight in every reasonable post ......:wah: :wah: gotcha bc

Ok i'll give you that one :wah:

el guapo;646152 wrote: mate ya take out of ya smoking hole

[snip crap]




Has smoking so affected your brain that you can't post an intelligible reply? I don't smoke, BTW.

[QUOTE=buttercup;646171Ive had a lady come up to me whilst im on a break at work & outside smoking say -

Take that disgusting thing out your mouth, its people like you who are killing the rest of us. mad:


Tell her to stop driving her car, then, just to begin with.

I keep hearing this stuff about cars are just as bad as cigarettes and I'ms orry but no, they're not. That is ridiculous and sounds to me like a red herring that always gets thrown in.

God forbid my secondhand smoke damage your lungs while you are in a bar damaging your liver.

Peg;646219 wrote: God forbid my secondhand smoke damage your lungs while you are in a bar damaging your liver.


But Peg...my drinking is not going to affect you. You're not going to taste the Tanqueray in my drink the way I will have to have your smoke waft through my clean hair and my fresh clothes and stick to my skin as well as my lungs as I take a breath. That therein is the difference. Whether someone should be in a bar pickling their liver is more of a judgment call ("you don't care about your health because you're drinking so stop b*tching about my smoking") while smoking is more a matter of respect and common sense. Now if I spill my drink on you, that might be an inconvenience but it's not going to actually harm you. :-6

Good point RG. I will admit, even though I smoke, I hate the smell in my hair. I hate that I go to put on clean clothes and can smell the cigarettes on them. I wish it were as easy as, "This is bad for me. I hate it. I quit." You can't force someone into quitting.

RedGlitter;646221 wrote: But Peg...my drinking is not going to affect you. You're not going to taste the Tanqueray in my drink the way I will have to have your smoke waft through my clean hair and my fresh clothes and stick to my skin as well as my lungs as I take a breath. That therein is the difference. -6


Go to a non-smoking "bar", then.

I get fed up with smoking fascists that think they have a right to force others who don't share their habit to join in whether they want to or not.

Smoking bans do not infringe your liberty you can still smoke if you want to. What you now cannot do is force everyone next to you in a confined space to join in. It's non smokers rights that have been trampled on up until now.

The comments about the damage drink does are ludicrous-nobody stands next to you, vomits up the drink and pours it down your throat and all over you. But that is what smokers do to the rest of us and we are supposed to accept it because it infringes on their civil liberties! Get a life, give up smoking and stop feeling sorry for yourselves. If it makes you feel better trip up the joggers on the way past. Urban joggers for goodness sake run round a park or something not the streets. It's when they cross the road in front of you apparently convinced that running shorts mean cars won't hit them and they can ignore the red man at pedestrian crossings :-5

Overall the ban in Scotland has had widespread support and far from losing business most of the bars-especially those that sell food have picked up business. It's the old drinking dives that suffer but they were losing custom anyway. The days of the smoke filled drinking dives with sawdust on the floor to soak up the vomit are long gone.

Peg;646224 wrote: Good point RG. I will admit, even though I smoke, I hate the smell in my hair. I hate that I go to put on clean clothes and can smell the cigarettes on them. I wish it were as easy as, "This is bad for me. I hate it. I quit." You can't force someone into quitting.


Thank you, Peg. And it's not that I hate smokers. I hate their nasty habit and I hate the tobacco companies that hooked them. I once got some junk mail from RJ Reynolds wanting to send free cigarette coupons. I wrote on the front "You Cost My Mother Her Lung!!" And sent it back to them.

I don't fault people my dad's age who smoke because they were ignorant of the harm back when they started. But when I see someone who's in their 20s or 30s or even younger I get livid because there's no more excuse for that kind of stupidity. I hate denial too. I have some very good friends in their late 40s and 50s who insist that it's okay to smoke through pregnancy and around kids because their parents did and look how well they turned out; it didn't hurt them. And these are otherwise extremely intelligent people.

Bill Sikes;646226 wrote: Go to a non-smoking "bar", then.


No Bill. I'm not the one in the wrong. How about the smokers go to a smoke-friendly bar instead?

I am a smoker. I do however totally understand and agree with the smoking ban in public places. I cant really see a compromis such as smoking and non smoking pubs/restaurants as although then you can say people have a choice wether to work in smoking or non smoking it would be limiting their choices and some people find it hard enough to get work. I was also very ignorant when younger and did smoke in front of my own children, i cant change that but now dont smoke around children. Also even in a smoking pub/restaurant i would never smoke if someone nearby was eating. i am of the mind that the ban is coming and we just have to accept it, we will get used to it eventually. there are a couple of things im not happy with though, and that is - some council and other works are saying you cannot smoke on their grounds at all even outside. some of these places would take you 15 minutes to walk outside of the grounds, so this will make it very hard for smokers on a break, and also i can see the very good reason for not smoking infdoors so as not to inflict unwanted smoke on others, but outside??? It just seems like red tape. Then there is a law coming out here that anyone dropping their cigarette ends on the ground will be fined £50 ( this is being enforced by our local council i think) But they are not going to provide ash bins to put them in!! they are sayong its up to pubs, businesses etc. to provide but if they dont they are still going to fine you. I was thinking of starting up a business selling portable ash trays:wah: But it is annoying that they have found a way to exploit somthing basically good and make money out of it.

Phew!! sorry i rambled a bit there:wah:

No Bill. I'm not the one in the wrong. How about the smokers go to a smoke-friendly bar instead?
If I were given a choice, I'd gladly go to a smoker-friendly bar. Unfortunately, that is not, or at least not supposed to be, an option.

kazalala;646264 wrote: I am a smoker. I do however totally understand and agree with the smoking ban in public places. I cant really see a compromis such as smoking and non smoking pubs/restaurants as although then you can say people have a choice wether to work in smoking or non smoking it would be limiting their choices and some people find it hard enough to get work. I was also very ignorant when younger and did smoke in front of my own children, i cant change that but now dont smoke around children. Also even in a smoking pub/restaurant i would never smoke if someone nearby was eating. i am of the mind that the ban is coming and we just have to accept it, we will get used to it eventually. there are a couple of things im not happy with though, and that is - some council and other works are saying you cannot smoke on their grounds at all even outside. some of these places would take you 15 minutes to walk outside of the grounds, so this will make it very hard for smokers on a break, and also i can see the very good reason for not smoking infdoors so as not to inflict unwanted smoke on others, but outside??? It just seems like red tape. Then there is a law coming out here that anyone dropping their cigarette ends on the ground will be fined £50 ( this is being enforced by our local council i think) But they are not going to provide ash bins to put them in!! they are sayong its up to pubs, businesses etc. to provide but if they dont they are still going to fine you. I was thinking of starting up a business selling portable ash trays:wah: But it is annoying that they have found a way to exploit somthing basically good and make money out of it.

Phew!! sorry i rambled a bit there:wah:


The fine for driving whilst using a mobile phone is a bog standard sixty pounds.

Each council can fine you anything they choose if you drop a cigarette end.Our council will charge eighty pounds.Now you can certainly kill someone if you are on a phone and driving.Are you likely to kill someone by dropping your filter tip in the street..This whole thread is agreeing with the non smokers ,we do not wish to blow our smoke on you all.All we want is somwhere we can go and smoke ourselves to death as you put it. Just as people who do dangerous sports risk their lives but are not refused hospital treatment,but that is the next government agenda for us.

Elly-May;645852 wrote: What does everone think of the smoking ban coming into force next week?

I'm not very happy with it being a smoker myself. Why can't we have smoking pubs and no smoking pubs, then we all have a choice!


I think it's great, I can go to my local with my kids now. I did with Ryan before but mainly outside if the weather was OK. Never with Jade though being so young. I'll be glad to be able to pop down there with the two of them.

Pubs in Wales have been smoke free for a couple of months , its great , the smell of smoke has been replaced with , smelly feet , farts , body odour , stale perfume and stale beer , its so great I don't have to go to them any more :-5

Uncle Fester;646399 wrote: the smell of smoke has been replaced with , smelly feet , farts , body odour , stale perfume and stale beer , its so great I don't have to go to them any more :-5


Yeah, but none of those are toxic or carcinogenic. The farts, feet & b.o. may come close, but no cigar (pun intended ).

You need to go to a better pub. The aroma in my smoke free local is food (I never would have eaten there in it's smoky days ....yechhh!!!!!) and the intoxicating fragrance emanating from the lovely barmaid.:-4

Bill Sikes;645877 wrote: However, I do think that smoking is a Bad Thing, and would support a complete ban, in general, although my tax would go up by about £500 per annum.


Not likely. Health costs would drop dramatically.

Smokers use more tax ££/$$ than they contribute through their habit.

Bill Sikes;646213 wrote: Has smoking so affected your brain that you can't post an intelligible reply? I don't smoke, BTW.


bill my comments are well balanced yours seem shall we say CRAPas you so politely said

i do not smoke if i have to pay a little more tax to the nhs because the tax from cigs is gone so be it

but as not so many cancer deaths so more people working

its not going to happen

less heart lung probs more workers less people on sick pay

we will all be better off

AussiePam;646138 wrote: Personally I can't see why there can't be some restaurants and some pubs smoke free and others smokerfriendly - with matching staff. Or in small towns where there is only one pub, some designated smoking areas. I've noticed many airports have smoking lounges.




That would be like having factories and mines that are full of toxic & carcinogenic gasses, and another class that meets federal regulations for safety.

In our nations (Australia, Canada, U.K., U.S.A.), these industries are regulated for the safety and well being of all the employees. You need not go back too far in history when that wasn't the case. I think we'd all agree that we're better off now than we were, even 25 years ago, when products like asbestos were comonly used in the workplace.

Finally, common sense and medical fact has caught up with unregulated smoking in our societies.

RedGlitter;646216 wrote: I keep hearing this stuff about cars are just as bad as cigarettes and I'ms orry but no, they're not. That is ridiculous and sounds to me like a red herring that always gets thrown in.


Just ask a smoker if they run their cars in an enclosed garage.

Of course they don't. The smoke is full of deadly carbon monoxide and dozens of harmful pollutants.

Sound familiar ????

Richard Bell;646416 wrote: Not likely. Health costs would drop dramatically.

Smokers use more tax ££/$$ than they contribute through their habit.


Wrong , in UK smokers contribute £10.5 billion , cost of ALL smoke related illnesses , £2.2 billion , profit to government £8.3 billion (all fact) a bloody good bargain

Uncle Fester;646453 wrote: Wrong , in UK smokers contribute £10.5 billion , cost of ALL smoke related illnesses , £2.2 billion , profit to government £8.3 billion (all fact) a bloody good bargain


i agree but what about lost work days though smoke related illness

RedGlitter;646236 wrote:

No Bill. I'm not the one in the wrong. How about the smokers go to a smoke-friendly bar instead?


The point is that in the UK there won't, by law, be *any* "smoke friendly" bars, pubs or what-have-you - although smoking is legal. This is an anomaly.

Should your example be true - and there were smoking and non-smoking establishments, would that satisfy you?

kazalala;646264 wrote: Ithere is a law coming out here that anyone dropping their cigarette ends on the ground will be fined £50 wah:


This is another ridiculous thing. There are already laws against "littering", and I think that the penalty is more than £50.

Mia;646310 wrote: The fine for driving whilst using a mobile phone is a bog standard sixty pounds.


Erm, no it is not. It's £60 *and three points on your licence* (since Feb.).



Mia;646310 wrote: Each council can fine you anything they choose if you drop a cigarette end.Our council will charge eighty pounds.Now you can certainly kill someone if you are on a phone and driving.Are you likely to kill someone by dropping your filter tip in the street..


No, but I don't want filthy litter in the streets, either. I do not see why there is new legislation for dropping fag-ends, though - existing legislation already covers it.

Mia;646310 wrote: This whole thread is agreeing with the non smokers ,we do not wish to blow our smoke on you all.All we want is somwhere we can go and smoke ourselves to death as you put it.


This is what the fascists have forbidden, although your smoking is still legal. Not joined-up thinking, at all.

crazygal;646327 wrote: I think it's great, I can go to my local with my kids now. D


Bloody hell. Kids in pubs. Parents who take them into pubs[1] are, and IME rightly, despised.

[1]OK in some beer gardens, or the sort of "McPubs" with telescreens where the great unwashed go, though.

el guapo;646481 wrote: i agree but what about lost work days though smoke related illness


How many working days lost by skivers just taking a sickie :wah:

Uncle Fester;646502 wrote: How many working days lost by skivers just taking a sickie :wah:


ya mean skivers having a cig

Bill Sikes;646485 wrote: This is another ridiculous thing. There are already laws against "littering", and I think that the penalty is more than £50.


dont get me wrong,, i hate littering, but like u say theres already a law against it so why bring another one out solely for cigarette ends. But maybe they could supply more bins,, and more ash bins too. i will have a tin or something in my bag just in case.

kazalala;646506 wrote: dont get me wrong,, i hate littering, but like u say theres already a law against it so why bring another one out solely for cigarette ends. But maybe they could supply more bins,, and more ash bins too. i will have a tin or something in my bag just in case.


ya cant put bill in a bin .......he might escape:wah: :wah: :wah:

el guapo;646417 wrote: bill my comments are well balanced yours seem shall we say SIZE="6"]CRAPas you so politely said


Quote "mate ya take out of ya smoking hole". Balanced, "yeah right" as the yoof of today are fond of saying, apparently.

When are we gonna ban people from being outside during the day? After all, people could get cancer from that... right??

Bill Sikes;646484 wrote: The point is that in the UK there won't, by law, be *any* "smoke friendly" bars, pubs or what-have-you - although smoking is legal. This is an anomaly.

Should your example be true - and there were smoking and non-smoking establishments, would that satisfy you?


No. It would not. Simply because my right to go anywhere I want and still maintain smoke free air for my health trumps that of a smoker's "right" to foul up communal air.

observer1;646531 wrote: When are we gonna ban people from being outside during the day? After all, people could get cancer from that... right??


Wrong. That's another argument that makes no sense. If standing next to another person gave you cancer that would be one thing but getting cancer from the sun doesn't involve anyone else.

RedGlitter;646613 wrote:

Originally Posted by Bill Sikes

The point is that in the UK there won't, by law, be *any* "smoke friendly" bars, pubs or what-have-you - although smoking is legal. This is an anomaly.

Should your example be true - and there were smoking and non-smoking establishments, would that satisfy you?

No. It would not. Simply because my right to go anywhere I want and still maintain smoke free air for my health trumps that of a smoker's "right" to foul up communal air.


Ah. So you would bone-headedly go to places where you *know* smoking is permitted, and where there are alternatives for you, and still complain. Presumably, in the same spirit, you'd freely visit any other place which has things going on in it, which you know about, and don't like, and complain about them, too!

RedGlitter;646613 wrote:

Originally Posted by observer1

When are we gonna ban people from being outside during the day? After all, people could get cancer from that... right??

Wrong. That's another argument that makes no sense. If standing next to another person gave you cancer that would be one thing but getting cancer from the sun doesn't involve anyone else.


But if some person decided to establish a public "smoking club", which you would not be forced to go into, then you would still desperately try to gain entry, and cry "foul!"?

Bill Sikes;646651 wrote: Ah. So you would bone-headedly go to places where you *know* smoking is permitted, and where there are alternatives for you, and still complain. Presumably, in the same spirit, you'd freely visit any other place which has things going on in it, which you know about, and don't like, and complain about them, too!


Don't be so presumptuous, Bill. I'm not a complainer for the most part, but I do think fresh air should be available to ALL in a public place. You want to smoke, go home or put a fishbowl on your head. I don't see why smokers should be pandered to at the expense of more sensible, intelligent people.

Boy, that's gonna bring 'em in! Get ready....

Soberano;646721 wrote: This is getting out of hand. Just execute the filthy smoking smelly bastards.

Right, that has made a few of you happy.

Let em smoke in peace, they ain't harming no bugger but themselves.

Ain't that nice.

I don't give a sh1t, i got a life outside of complaining and whinging about others.

Some bugger is bound to moan about this post.:wah:


Ok, I'll be the huckleberry....

If that were true, we wouldn't be talking about it.