Should we censor violent music and violent movies, so that the few that are not all there aren't driven over the edge?
Or should we accept a certain amount of death, mayhem, and a decline of moral values as the cost of having complete freedom of speech?
following up with my just-posted - the answer is neither. there should be a brake, restrictions, on access to this stuff for those under 18. card 'em just like for cigarettes and booze. for everyone else, they're adults, they have the right.
most violence in our society is *not* caused by people who were 'inspired' by violent music/movies/games. ironically of course, you would think the opposite, because when such crimes occur, they get orders of magnitude more press, for their titillation and shock value, than the wife beaten to death by her husband, which is ...mundane.
anastrophe wrote: i saw some excerpts from san andreas on one of the news magazines just recently. pretty horrific stuff, and I definitely don't think anyone under 15 should be allowed to play it. tough sell when the parents are playing too though.
Good point. And yet almost every single one of my 15-year-olds has played or owns that game. So much for our "Parental Honor System", Eh?
Same thing goes for that recent horrific movie, "Saw". The day after it came out, almost every single kid in my class had seen it. When I asked, "But how could you have seen it? None of you are 17!"
They just laughed.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Jives wrote: But I keep thinking of the analogy , "Don't pour gas on the fire."
Doesn't our acceptance of this kind of thing, increase the probablility of it happening?perhaps. although, by that yardstick, then the thing that needs control is familial violence. the child who grows up watching mommy being beaten up by daddy, or vice versa, or even worse - the child being beaten up by mommy or daddy, or being constantly shamed or filled with hate - is the one who is being 'soaked in gasoline'. and there's a lot of them out there.
just look in our prisons. (i believe the statistic is something like 85%+ of incarcerated violent felons were abused in some significant fashion as children)
slushpuppy wrote: this is a great thread! Here are my thoughts on the subject, being the mother of a 16 year old boy who listens to everything from ACDC to Elvis...
In 2004, a 14 year old girl who lives near here and whom I knew was brutally murdered a short distance from here. A year later her boyfiriend (also 14 at the time of the murder), was arrested and charged with this crime. At the trial, it was heavily dwelt upon by the prosecution that the boy was a Marilyn Manson fan and self proclaimed Satan worshipper. Apparently the horrific wounds he inflicted upon this poor girl were similar to those displayed on Manson's website, relating to a murder of an actress that happened decades ago and about which he has written a song. (Sorry, can't remember the name of the actress or the song.) The boy, now 16 was convicted of the murder and is serving a 20 year life sentence. About 2 years prior to this incident, I banned my son from listening to Marilyn Manson not because I thought he might go out and murder someone but because I can't stand the aggressive, violent content of his lyrics and didn't want my son filling his head with this stuff. Still, I can't help but think that if we blame the music, isn't that easier than dealing with the real issues of why young children would be driven to kill? My feeling is that while it is not a good idea to fill vulnerable young minds with thoughts of death, violence and satan worship, music does not literally cause criminal behaviour. However, it may be a contributing factor especially if the person who commits the crime is already disturbed in some way, whether emotionally or mentally or just as a result of their life experiences. Anyone agree?
Jives wrote: So here is truth....there will ALWAYS be somebody out there that is disturbed. And you're right, slushy, I agree. You'd have to be whacked out to actually act upon a movie or a song and take them for reality.
After all, I've watched tons of "The Bugs Bunny Road Runner Hour" but I've never once dropped an anvil on anyone.
Then again, a group of children in Norway kicked a fellow 5-year old to death after watching "the Power Rangers". They are almost too young to process, all they were doing was emulating what they'd seen.
The question before us is this:
Should we censor violent music and violent movies, so that the few that are not all there aren't driven over the edge?
Or should we accept a certain amount of death, mayhem, and a decline of moral values as the cost of having complete freedom of speech?
Regardless of what you pin it on it is going to happen anyways until it is heaven on earth or peace in the valley. (not to leave the athiests out.)
slushpuppy wrote: just make sure they are taught right from wrong from an early age
That's a really, really good point Slushy! My friend and I were just talking about that the other day. We both agreed that if you do your job correctly when a child is five, you won't have too many problems when they reach fifteen. (By then, it's just too late.)
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
slushpuppy wrote: My son was listening to a song called 'smack my bitch up' last night and I asked him if he realised it was about beating up your girlfriend. He said "Yeah but the music's great!' And there's the problem - kids get drawn into listening to this kind of stuff because its cool and they think they won't be affected. Most of them won't but as I said before, teenagers are vulnerable and impressionable and although they probably won't go out and commit murder, maybe their sensitivity to violence will be lowered, especially with these mega-violent video games. The problem is, that as all parents of teenagers know, the more you tell them they can't do something, the more they will want to do it anyway! :-5 So what's the answer? I don't know, just make sure they are taught right from wrong from an early age and try to guide them the best you can when they get older?
Sounds good to me.
Jives wrote: That's a really, really good point Slushy! My friend and I were just talking about that the other day. We both agreed that if you do your job correctly when a child is five, you won't have too many problems when they reach fifteen. (By then, it's just too late.)
You are sounding like the guy that says that until you are eighteen (not 17 years, 364 days) then you are safe from being culpable of your misdeeds. It's the person and not the age.
greydeadhead wrote: yep.. and for every song that has lyrics that encourage violence you have lyrics like this...
If my words did glow with the gold of sunshine
And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung
Would you hear my voice come through the music
Would you hold it near as it were your own?
It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken
Perhaps they're better left unsung
I don't know, don't really care
Let there be songs to fill the air
(Chorus)
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow
Reach out your hand if your cup be empty
If your cup is full may it be again
Let it be known there is a fountain
That was not made by the hands of men
There is a road, no simple highway
Between the dawn and the dark of night
And if you go no one may follow
That path is for your steps alone
(Chorus)
You who choose to lead must follow
But if you fall you fall alone
If you should stand then who's to guide you?
If I knew the way I would take you home
-- Ripple
Lyrics by Robert Hunter
Music By Jerry Garcia
There have been numerous attempts to determine music's effect on the body. There is a body of work that is loosely referred to as The Mozart Effect, which was actually a paper folding exercise given to 2 groups, one of which listened to music, the other didn't. The music group did the origami faster after hearing the music, but lost the advantage after 24 hours.
This one exercise was then bastardized into a cottage industry exploiting baby boomers need to grow superior children in the form of baby Mozart, baby Einstein etc.
On the other hand, playing certain music in surgery has been shown to reduce the need for anasthesia significantly. This has been fairly well documented.
What music appears to be able to do, is raise, or lower cortisol levels. Cortisol is a stress hormone mostly responsible for the "fight or flight" response.
Tests have been attempted on various forms of music, and, certain forms, specifically rap and heavy metal, do appear to raise cortisol in everyone, which will put a person in that "fight or flight" mode. Theoretically, if that person then perceives a threat, they will respond to that threat within the basis of their nature, either to run away, or stand and fight.
So, yes, the evidence does point to music being able to play a role in contributing to violent behavior. Not the direct cause, but a contributing one.
On the other hand, Before Phil had his liver transplant, he spent a great deal of time choosing the music to be played during his surgery.
These guys knew, when they were very young, that they had tapped into some of the most powerfully healing medicine in the universe!
This informed virtually every business decision they made, especially their decision to allow taping. An old taper friend claimed that Healy once told him that they believed that this would someday be recognized as a legitimate medical treatment.
