The OP wanted to address the "simple" question of why some feel threatened by those who value animals over humans.
I don't find it a simple question at all. How do we get to the conclusive quality of "threatened"? If two people argue, and they both argue vehemently, is only one person "threatened"? Is this assessment based on one person making a statement and not caring enough to defend the idea when challenged, thereby making the other person appear "threatened"? If one person makes a statement, is challenged, and instead of continuing the debate in the thread, starts a new thread to declare the other person "threatened" does it not appear more that the one starting the second thread is "threatened" by the challenger?
... Hence why I say the question is not simple and unlikely to evoke a sweet reply.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
At what point do you draw the line? We had people in our neighborhood that moved in a couple of years ago and brought with them ten rotweilers..Thses dogs ran in a heard all over the neighborhood..killed several pets..in their own yards and garages..i know of one kind woman who witnessed them shred her shitz zu in pieces all over her garage..we live in the county..no leash laws..no dog pound would come pick the rotts up..eventually they started expanding the territory they ran in..right up into my yard in the middle of the night..i have had them jump on my car and scratch the paint chasing my cats..tip my dumpster over in my garage and string trash all over..its a scary sight ot walk outside after dark in your swim suit thinking you are going for a swim and encounter this pack..soooooooooooooo one by one they have been taken out..when these idiot people were down to two they got the point and put their dogs in their fenced in yard.which they had the whole time..
Its no different than encountering a tresspasser in your home or on your property after dark..not to me..
Its no different than encountering a tresspasser in your home or on your property after dark..not to me..
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
So much for your "simple answer" Red! :wah:
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
guppy;996320 wrote: At what point do you draw the line? We had people in our neighborhood that moved in a couple of years ago and brought with them ten rotweilers..Thses dogs ran in a heard all over the neighborhood..killed several pets..in their own yards and garages..i know of one kind woman who witnessed them shred her shitz zu in pieces all over her garage..we live in the county..no leash laws..no dog pound would come pick the rotts up..eventually they started expanding the territory they ran in..right up into my yard in the middle of the night..i have had them jump on my car and scratch the paint chasing my cats..tip my dumpster over in my garage and string trash all over..its a scary sight ot walk outside after dark in your swim suit thinking you are going for a swim and encounter this pack..soooooooooooooo one by one they have been taken out..when these idiot people were down to two they got the point and put their dogs in their fenced in yard.which they had the whole time..
Its no different than encountering a tresspasser in your home or on your property after dark..not to me..
OMG...............no leash law...........weird.
you can always throw them something to eat...........with something inside, that will take care of the dogs!
Its no different than encountering a tresspasser in your home or on your property after dark..not to me..
OMG...............no leash law...........weird.
you can always throw them something to eat...........with something inside, that will take care of the dogs!
Life is just to short for drama.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996331 wrote: Is this the 'whose on first' system of logic?
I understood her question and I gave her a simple answer. I thought about it for a while too.
Can you explain your post to me better? I just don't get what you're trying to say.
Is the person who asks a question in a forum always a challenger? If it is I think I'm doing things wrong. I don't mean to challenge people by asking a question, I think now I know why people seem to react to my posts.
You're doing just fine here Hoss.
Some people just make things more complicated than they need to be.
I understood her question and I gave her a simple answer. I thought about it for a while too.
Can you explain your post to me better? I just don't get what you're trying to say.
Is the person who asks a question in a forum always a challenger? If it is I think I'm doing things wrong. I don't mean to challenge people by asking a question, I think now I know why people seem to react to my posts.
You're doing just fine here Hoss.
Some people just make things more complicated than they need to be.Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996331 wrote: Is this the 'whose on first' system of logic?
I understood her question and I gave her a simple answer. I thought about it for a while too.
Can you explain your post to me better? I just don't get what you're trying to say.
Is the person who asks a question in a forum always a challenger? If it is I think I'm doing things wrong. I don't mean to challenge people by asking a question, I think now I know why people seem to react to my posts.
You answered her question in the next post. After that it turned into a discussion of animal vs human so I returned it to the OP.
RedGlitter;994860 wrote: [snip] I would like if possible a short and sweet answer to one question.
Why do people feel so threatened when other people consider animal life to be just as valuable as human life?
[snip]
Where is the threat?
Thank you.
Hoss;994864 wrote: I don't feel threatened, but I understand how some may think that.[snip]
insert a bunch of other posts here, some addressing the threat question but many not doing so...
then my comment.
koan;996319 wrote: The OP wanted to address the "simple" question of why some feel threatened by those who value animals over humans.
I don't find it a simple question at all. How do we get to the conclusive quality of "threatened"? If two people argue, and they both argue vehemently, is only one person "threatened"? Is this assessment based on one person making a statement and not caring enough to defend the idea when challenged, thereby making the other person appear "threatened"? If one person makes a statement, is challenged, and instead of continuing the debate in the thread, starts a new thread to declare the other person "threatened" does it not appear more that the one starting the second thread is "threatened" by the challenger?
... Hence why I say the question is not simple and unlikely to evoke a sweet reply.
I'm agreeing with you, Hoss, that the person/people in question do not likely feel threatened. Then I'm stating what I find to be the point of confusion in the question itself... mainly the attachment of the subjective quality "threatened"
I understood her question and I gave her a simple answer. I thought about it for a while too.
Can you explain your post to me better? I just don't get what you're trying to say.
Is the person who asks a question in a forum always a challenger? If it is I think I'm doing things wrong. I don't mean to challenge people by asking a question, I think now I know why people seem to react to my posts.
You answered her question in the next post. After that it turned into a discussion of animal vs human so I returned it to the OP.
RedGlitter;994860 wrote: [snip] I would like if possible a short and sweet answer to one question.
Why do people feel so threatened when other people consider animal life to be just as valuable as human life?
[snip]
Where is the threat?
Thank you.
Hoss;994864 wrote: I don't feel threatened, but I understand how some may think that.[snip]
insert a bunch of other posts here, some addressing the threat question but many not doing so...
then my comment.
koan;996319 wrote: The OP wanted to address the "simple" question of why some feel threatened by those who value animals over humans.
I don't find it a simple question at all. How do we get to the conclusive quality of "threatened"? If two people argue, and they both argue vehemently, is only one person "threatened"? Is this assessment based on one person making a statement and not caring enough to defend the idea when challenged, thereby making the other person appear "threatened"? If one person makes a statement, is challenged, and instead of continuing the debate in the thread, starts a new thread to declare the other person "threatened" does it not appear more that the one starting the second thread is "threatened" by the challenger?
... Hence why I say the question is not simple and unlikely to evoke a sweet reply.
I'm agreeing with you, Hoss, that the person/people in question do not likely feel threatened. Then I'm stating what I find to be the point of confusion in the question itself... mainly the attachment of the subjective quality "threatened"
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996349 wrote: Ok I'm good thank you Shelbelle and JAB.
This place is new and very different than face to face conversation I thought I may have been unknowingly offending people.
There is always going to be someone that will be offended by something if they look for it Hoss...especially if the topic is in the least way controversial. I usually just avoid the ones that I know like to do that and just ignore them if they start going on to me.
This place is new and very different than face to face conversation I thought I may have been unknowingly offending people.
There is always going to be someone that will be offended by something if they look for it Hoss...especially if the topic is in the least way controversial. I usually just avoid the ones that I know like to do that and just ignore them if they start going on to me.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Threatened as if because I value animals equally that I am someone to be afraid of. That I may be devoid of human qualities because surely no person would think such a thing. That's the attitude I get from many people when this topic comes up.I don't mean it's peculiar to forums either. It happens in regular life as well. They throw that drowning dog/child scenario in and if you don't say child, they rear back and look at you cross-eyed. Like they're thinking "Gee, if it were ME drowning, she wouldn't save me!"
That's what I meant by threatened.
That's what I meant by threatened.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
shelbell;996355 wrote: There is always going to be someone that will be offended by something if they look for it Hoss...especially if the topic is in the least way controversial. I usually just avoid the ones that I know like to do that and just ignore them if they start going on to me.
Just to clear up the use of the word offended
I'm not offended by the OP, just unable to offer a simple, sweet response as requested.
Like Hoss, I thought about it and composed my reply.
Just to clear up the use of the word offended
I'm not offended by the OP, just unable to offer a simple, sweet response as requested.
Like Hoss, I thought about it and composed my reply.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
because it can be carried to far..i wouldnt deliberately drive my car into a tree and kill my family to avoid hitting a deer in the road..i use bug spray to kill mosquitoes. i kill snakes that i run across..if i know they are poisonous..to protect myself and my family and my dogs..and cats..i have my house sprayed for termites..i will kill rats or mice that enter my home.
I use live worms to catch fish..something peta is against.
I eat fruits and vegetables that have been sprayed with pesticide to kill insects..another animal..
I wear clothes that are made out of silk..which involves killing silkworms..
I live in a house that contains wood..beams..supports..that were cut down and made into lumber that caused animals to be displaced.
the reason people get upset or feel threatened is probably because the cause is carried to far.
I use live worms to catch fish..something peta is against.
I eat fruits and vegetables that have been sprayed with pesticide to kill insects..another animal..
I wear clothes that are made out of silk..which involves killing silkworms..
I live in a house that contains wood..beams..supports..that were cut down and made into lumber that caused animals to be displaced.
the reason people get upset or feel threatened is probably because the cause is carried to far.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Koan, by short and sweet, all I meant was that I hoped it wouldn't turn into an argument thread. I want to avoid that. Your response was fine.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
[QUOTE=RedGlitter;994860]
Why do people feel so threatened when other people consider animal life to be just as valuable as human life?/QUOTE]
I don't feel in the least threatened by other people's views on the relative value of human life and animal life. We are all fortunate enough to live in countries where a whole range of differing views can be held on a whole range of things - even without personal animosity.
Why do people feel so threatened when other people consider animal life to be just as valuable as human life?/QUOTE]
I don't feel in the least threatened by other people's views on the relative value of human life and animal life. We are all fortunate enough to live in countries where a whole range of differing views can be held on a whole range of things - even without personal animosity.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
a fireman is not going to rush into a burning house and save the family pet and allow a family to perish..even though he may feel animals are just as valuable as humans
a paramedic is not going to rush to the scene of a wreck involving a deer and a hurt human..and go to the deer first or even at all..although he or she may feel as though animals are just as valuable.
people get upset when they are told that a human life is not worth saving over an animal"s in a crisis situation..at that point it has went to far..
a paramedic is not going to rush to the scene of a wreck involving a deer and a hurt human..and go to the deer first or even at all..although he or she may feel as though animals are just as valuable.
people get upset when they are told that a human life is not worth saving over an animal"s in a crisis situation..at that point it has went to far..
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
RedGlitter;996358 wrote: [...] They throw that drowning dog/child scenario in and if you don't say child, they rear back and look at you cross-eyed. Like they're thinking "Gee, if it were ME drowning, she wouldn't save me!"
That's what I meant by threatened.
In that case...
With the scenario of child vs dog drowning they are likely thinking "Gee, if it were my CHILD drowning, she would save the dog!"
There is a big difference between "me" and "my child".
If I thought someone would let my child drown in order to save a dog I'd be outraged. If there is any instance of threat, it would be that the dog saver's choices of priority make the world a less safe place for my child. It then goes to wondering if my child was being kidnapped, would anyone respond to the cries for help.
It's much bigger than the issue you have in mind.
That's what I meant by threatened.
In that case...
With the scenario of child vs dog drowning they are likely thinking "Gee, if it were my CHILD drowning, she would save the dog!"
There is a big difference between "me" and "my child".
If I thought someone would let my child drown in order to save a dog I'd be outraged. If there is any instance of threat, it would be that the dog saver's choices of priority make the world a less safe place for my child. It then goes to wondering if my child was being kidnapped, would anyone respond to the cries for help.
It's much bigger than the issue you have in mind.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996379 wrote: Yeah but I agree with RedGlitters first answer, 'save both'.
sure, but she's asking why people are threatened by a person who would save the dog first.
sure, but she's asking why people are threatened by a person who would save the dog first.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996379 wrote: Yeah but I agree with RedGlitters first answer, 'save both'.
You missed the point..or maybe you are being vague here..would you save an animal at the cost of your dad's life Hoss? point blank..do you place a humans life as lessor value as an animals..that is when most human's get upset .
You missed the point..or maybe you are being vague here..would you save an animal at the cost of your dad's life Hoss? point blank..do you place a humans life as lessor value as an animals..that is when most human's get upset .
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996384 wrote: Oh I understand, I agree I'd save the human first, but I liked her hypothetical reply to a hypothetical situation, since its hypothetical just change the hypothetical part. It was funny.
I think I’m all mixed up on this thread.:-2
I would try to save the animal once I knew the human was safe and I wouldn't risk my life too much in the process.
ok..so then do you see the answer here to Red's question? why do people get upset when she says she would save a dog over a human's? She has flat out stated she places more value to a dog's life than a humans and wants to know why people would react to that...get it?
I think I’m all mixed up on this thread.:-2
I would try to save the animal once I knew the human was safe and I wouldn't risk my life too much in the process.
ok..so then do you see the answer here to Red's question? why do people get upset when she says she would save a dog over a human's? She has flat out stated she places more value to a dog's life than a humans and wants to know why people would react to that...get it?
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996387 wrote: Can I hold my head and run in circles now? I'm all over this, now I can't figure out who I offended, if I offended anyone, I don't know whether to laugh, or keep running in circles looking for a wall to put me out of my misery.
If I offended anyone please send me a PM so I can apologize properly.
If anyone sees at least some humor in it, please laugh with me.
I dont believe you have offended anyone.its just a difference of moral values here..in the past Red has stated that she would save a dogs life over a human..and i for one..reacted like this...She would save a ****ing dog over one of my kids???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
oh my god!!!!
and most of us that have been on fg very long well remember that thread and that conversation when she stated her moral values there..
so now..go back and think about her question..why do people get upset when she states she would save a dog over a human being..holy moly..:-2 that is what we are remembering..not the vague hypothetical part stated this time around...
If I offended anyone please send me a PM so I can apologize properly.
If anyone sees at least some humor in it, please laugh with me.
I dont believe you have offended anyone.its just a difference of moral values here..in the past Red has stated that she would save a dogs life over a human..and i for one..reacted like this...She would save a ****ing dog over one of my kids???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
oh my god!!!!
and most of us that have been on fg very long well remember that thread and that conversation when she stated her moral values there..
so now..go back and think about her question..why do people get upset when she states she would save a dog over a human being..holy moly..:-2 that is what we are remembering..not the vague hypothetical part stated this time around...
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
(aside) Hoss thinks he offended me? I thought he thought I was being offensive. Alas, this is the coinage of our brains that we reap such grief from the mere inference of a whisper in our ears that says 'twas you and sees misfortune in the smallest of utterances.
I've not addressed you, Hoss, only responded to your addressing of me. If you have no problem, then we are clear.
As to the actual thread... LOL
Sure, I'll bite. I have a very big problem with someone who would watch my child drown and save a dog.
I've not addressed you, Hoss, only responded to your addressing of me. If you have no problem, then we are clear.
As to the actual thread... LOL
Sure, I'll bite. I have a very big problem with someone who would watch my child drown and save a dog.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996387 wrote: Can I hold my head and run in circles now? I'm all over this, now I can't figure out who I offended, if I offended anyone, I don't know whether to laugh, or keep running in circles looking for a wall to put me out of my misery.
If I offended anyone please send me a PM so I can apologize properly.
If anyone sees at least some humor in it, please laugh with me.
You're fine. One thing about forums including FG, is that everyone offends someone sometime. It can't be helped. It's human nature when you have all these personalities in one "room" together. I offend people and people offend me and sometimes it's an honest accident and sometimes it's just the way things are. I'm not talking about being rude, (although I have done that) but differences in opinion. There are some people here who think I'm a crackpot for my staunch love and compassion for animals. They don't get me. And in truth, I think some of them are weirdos for their stances too.
I don't get them either. So just be yourself. That's all anyone can ask of you.
If I offended anyone please send me a PM so I can apologize properly.
If anyone sees at least some humor in it, please laugh with me.
You're fine. One thing about forums including FG, is that everyone offends someone sometime. It can't be helped. It's human nature when you have all these personalities in one "room" together. I offend people and people offend me and sometimes it's an honest accident and sometimes it's just the way things are. I'm not talking about being rude, (although I have done that) but differences in opinion. There are some people here who think I'm a crackpot for my staunch love and compassion for animals. They don't get me. And in truth, I think some of them are weirdos for their stances too.
I don't get them either. So just be yourself. That's all anyone can ask of you. Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Add to that.
I'm not threatened by the person that would watch my child drown. I'm mortified.
I'm not threatened because I believe that person is in the minority.
I'm not threatened by the person that would watch my child drown. I'm mortified.
I'm not threatened because I believe that person is in the minority.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
koan;996403 wrote: Sure, I'll bite. I have a very big problem with someone who would watch my child drown and save a dog.
No reasonable dog owner would be expected to have taught the animal to swim.
No reasonable parent could be felt to have discharged his responsibilities adequately if he hadn't taught his offspring to swim.
Therefore any reasonable rescuer would aid the dog first every time, knowing that a failure of the child to survive would be entirely the fault of the parents.
No reasonable dog owner would be expected to have taught the animal to swim.
No reasonable parent could be felt to have discharged his responsibilities adequately if he hadn't taught his offspring to swim.
Therefore any reasonable rescuer would aid the dog first every time, knowing that a failure of the child to survive would be entirely the fault of the parents.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Except that the domesticated animal, according to you, spot, should not exist.
Here's a more interesting scenario.
What if a man who ran a rescue shelter for dogs, providing a good home for ten animals who would otherwise be suffering, also occasionally raped women. If he was prosecuted for rape he would not be able to provide for those ten dogs. Would the lives of those ten dogs be worth more than the well being of his future rape victims?
Here's a more interesting scenario.
What if a man who ran a rescue shelter for dogs, providing a good home for ten animals who would otherwise be suffering, also occasionally raped women. If he was prosecuted for rape he would not be able to provide for those ten dogs. Would the lives of those ten dogs be worth more than the well being of his future rape victims?
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996412 wrote: [...]I believe that if Reglitter heard the frantic help-help of a child and there really was a save only one option, I 'm sure she'd help the child.
Why would you think that?
Why would you think that?
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996416 wrote: Because the basic part of Redglitter I see in her writing is love. I can't imagine her swimming out past a child to save the dog, that’s too cold hearted for her to do, I think she's incapable of it as a human.
I don't think Sir Spot could do it either.
Except that, prior to your existence on FG, she has stated that she would save the dog.
I don't think Sir Spot could do it either.
Except that, prior to your existence on FG, she has stated that she would save the dog.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
I have no explanation for spot.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996419 wrote: I'm sorry, but it doesn’t change my opinion of her, if she said that I imagine she said it in a moment where she wasn't thinking clearly. Maybe she tells herself that, I told myself I could skydive and not be afraid, but I fought it all the way down, scared half out of my mind.
So your positive opinion of her is based on the assumption that she doesn't know herself well.
So your positive opinion of her is based on the assumption that she doesn't know herself well.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996331 wrote: Is this the 'whose on first' system of logic? .............
...............etc
I think the thread is back to here again............
Who is really on first?
...............etc
I think the thread is back to here again............
Who is really on first?
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
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Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss
Your HAT AIN'T BIG ENOUGH HERE - it's best you move on ....
because - just because we've come full circle....
The End
Patsy
Your HAT AIN'T BIG ENOUGH HERE - it's best you move on ....
because - just because we've come full circle....
The End
Patsy
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
koan;996359 wrote: Just to clear up the use of the word offended
I'm not offended by the OP, just unable to offer a simple, sweet response as requested.
Like Hoss, I thought about it and composed my reply.
:wah::wah: Too funny koan! Just so you know, I was not speaking about you, it was a generalization and one I use myself. But thanks for clearing up the offended part for me.
I'm not offended by the OP, just unable to offer a simple, sweet response as requested.
Like Hoss, I thought about it and composed my reply.
:wah::wah: Too funny koan! Just so you know, I was not speaking about you, it was a generalization and one I use myself. But thanks for clearing up the offended part for me.
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
spot;996406 wrote: No reasonable dog owner would be expected to have taught the animal to swim.
No reasonable parent could be felt to have discharged his responsibilities adequately if he hadn't taught his offspring to swim.
Therefore any reasonable rescuer would aid the dog first every time, knowing that a failure of the child to survive would be entirely the fault of the parents.
My dog can swim and surf, he would snorkel if we let him:sneaky:
My kids can swim.
I love them all but I would save my kids or any other kids, man and woman before my dog or any other animal, not to say I would also try and save the animal but they would be my last thought..
I cant believe were actually discussing if we would save a human over an animal first.....Beggars belief!
No reasonable parent could be felt to have discharged his responsibilities adequately if he hadn't taught his offspring to swim.
Therefore any reasonable rescuer would aid the dog first every time, knowing that a failure of the child to survive would be entirely the fault of the parents.
My dog can swim and surf, he would snorkel if we let him:sneaky:
My kids can swim.
I love them all but I would save my kids or any other kids, man and woman before my dog or any other animal, not to say I would also try and save the animal but they would be my last thought..
I cant believe were actually discussing if we would save a human over an animal first.....Beggars belief!
Animal vs Human: Needing a simple answer
Hoss;996419 wrote: I'm sorry, but it doesn’t change my opinion of her, if she said that I imagine she said it in a moment where she wasn't thinking clearly. Maybe she tells herself that, I told myself I could skydive and not be afraid, but I fought it all the way down, scared half out of my mind.
So, as i have read this thread Hoss..you have made excuses for another member..assumed their logic..assumed how they would react..at no place in this thread has she actually stated any of your assumptions.....and it is noteworthy that after making all your assumptions..you say you havent changed your opinion of RG.........because you dont believe she really meant it???...She herself has made no such claim...
So, as i have read this thread Hoss..you have made excuses for another member..assumed their logic..assumed how they would react..at no place in this thread has she actually stated any of your assumptions.....and it is noteworthy that after making all your assumptions..you say you havent changed your opinion of RG.........because you dont believe she really meant it???...She herself has made no such claim...