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oscar;1068908 wrote: To accumalate you must speculate

So, what is your government doing to get Ireland out of the shyte??


Seriously Oscar, you can't speculate using public money, its not politically sustainable, if it all goes belly up the government will have cashed in the authority of the actual political system, never mind the economic one.

Fortunately we don't seem to have access to the kind of borrowing your guys do, so we are going to have to come up with something creative, like fire about half the civil service, go on a 4 day week, and nationalize land or something. Its not good, but at least they are unable to be tempted to push us down the road to Iceland as they simply won't get the money.

Anyway, I just don't think that pumping money into the economy is going to make Irish people start rushing out on a spending spree for christmas, people are seriously starting to get worried about having a job or a house in 2010, they are simply not going to buy a new TV just because its 2 percent cheaper. Though for things like normal food shopping over the border people are going nuts to get up there because sterling is so cheap, and food in Ireland is expensive.

To be honest, at this stage I have no idea what the answers are, this seems to be quickly becoming a situation where there are few precedents about what should be done, perhaps that justifies what Darling is doing, I am sure he is not an idiot and believes what he is doing will be right in some measure, I just hope that he is not wrong, because if he is, then it will be a very difficult economic set of circumstances in 12-24 months time and he will have zero room for maneuver.

spot;1068993 wrote: There are 5,200 words on that page. Even the slightest hint of what you're trying to draw my attention to would improve my chances of following your thought.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... States.gif - if that's where you want me to look - has a higher total for public than for government accounts.



You ignored my point that every government holding of a that same government's bond is an internal book-keeping transaction, not a debt?
I didn't ignore it. As I said I'm out of my depth here. If the article mixes bookkeeping transactions with debt and calls it all one, then what use is its information?

If I read this right (from the same site), foreign and international own far more than private and other investors combined.

Galbally;1069011 wrote: Seriously Oscar, you can't speculate using public money, its not politically sustainable, if it all goes belly up the government will have cashed in the authority of the actual political system, never mind the economic one.

Fortunately we don't seem to have access to the kind of borrowing your guys do, so we are going to have to come up with something creative, like fire about half the civil service, go on a 4 day week, and nationalize land or something. Its not good, but at least they are unable to be tempted to push us down the road to Iceland as they simply won't get the money.

Anyway, I just don't think that pumping money into the economy is going to make Irish people start rushing out on a spending spree for christmas, people are seriously starting to get worried about having a job or a house in 2010, they are simply not going to buy a new TV just because its 2 percent cheaper. Though for things like normal food shopping over the border people are going nuts to get up there because sterling is so cheap, and food in Ireland is expensive.

To be honest, at this stage I have no idea what the answers are, this seems to be quickly becoming a situation where there are few precedents about what should be done, perhaps that justifies what Darling is doing, I am sure he is not an idiot and believes what he is doing will be right in some measure, I just hope that he is not wrong, because if he is, then it will be a very difficult economic set of circumstances in 12-24 months time and he will have zero room for maneuver.


So, no real proposals for Ireland just yet then? Looks like your government is giving you the worse option of 'Let's wait and see' and not actually proposing anything just like Cameron and Clegg.

Perhaps your government is just waiting to see if Brown's recovery plan panns out and if it does, when it does, take his same action. :sneaky::sneaky:

Accountable;1069012 wrote: I didn't ignore it. As I said I'm out of my depth here. If the article mixes bookkeeping transactions with debt and calls it all one, then what use is its information?

If I read this right (from the same site), foreign and international own far more than private and other investors combined.


The public debt's fairly even between domestic and foreign investors.

Bryn Mawr;1069017 wrote: The public debt's fairly even between domestic and foreign investors.
Thanks. Not sure it helps in the big picture, but at least I have info.

oscar;1069014 wrote: So, no real proposals for Ireland just yet then? Looks like your government is giving you the worse option of 'Let's wait and see' and not actually proposing anything just like Cameron and Clegg.

Perhaps your government is just waiting to see if Brown's recovery plan panns out and if it does, when it does, take his same action. :sneaky::sneaky:
Nah, you're not appearing smug.



Care to give this a shot? Why is 'Let's wait and see' the worse option? Doing something, no matter how damaging, is better than doing nothing?

Accountable;1069026 wrote: Nah, you're not appearing smug.



Care to give this a shot? Why is 'Let's wait and see' the worse option? Doing something, no matter how damaging, is better than doing nothing?


Absolutely. politics and government is far from just doing what they believe is right. The mood of the country has to be taken into account. People who are genuinely, through no fault of their own, losing homes and jobs have to see action taken by their leader and given hope for the future. After all, is that not what Obama has just won his election on, hope for the future?

For a government to appear to be sitting on their laurels and doing nothing, gives no hope for the very people who pay their politicians wages.

I'd much rather gamble on Brown's recovery plan than have a PM who seems to care little for the people of the country by proposing bugger all as is the case in ireland.

The action I'd prefer seeing would have been drastic cuts in federal spending; repealing the laws that allowed such indiscriminate speculation by the banks and that tried to manipulate a market economy that must be allowed to have ebbs and flows; investigations of key top executives to make damn sure what they did was legal; and the President taking the bully pulpit like he's never done, apologizing to the citizens of America on behalf of the last half-dozen presidents for being so arrogant as to think government can fix anything, or create anything; and allowing American private enterprise to pull us out of the crapheap the corporate-purchased government has driven us into.

It's your country, Accountable, you try it exactly that way if that's the way you see as best suited to your own society.

I'm glad we have a social contract over here instead.

spot;1069042 wrote: It's your country, Accountable, you try it exactly that way if that's the way you see as best suited to your own society.



I'm glad we have a social contract over here instead.
**** off, putz. I'm in the minority over here and will have to ride this out, hanging onto whatever I can while the gov't lavishes rewards on the irresponsible.

Democracy can be a bugger, eh?

oscar;1069014 wrote: So, no real proposals for Ireland just yet then? Looks like your government is giving you the worse option of 'Let's wait and see' and not actually proposing anything just like Cameron and Clegg.

Perhaps your government is just waiting to see if Brown's recovery plan panns out and if it does, when it does, take his same action. :sneaky::sneaky:


Yes, they may be precisely doing that, and given the stakes, that may be wise.

Galbally;1069137 wrote: Yes, they may be precisely doing that, and given the stakes, that may be wise.


That's good... For a moment there, i thought he was doing absolutely bugger all :sneaky: :sneaky::sneaky:

Accountable;1069047 wrote: **** off, putz. I'm in the minority over here and will have to ride this out, hanging onto whatever I can while the gov't lavishes rewards on the irresponsible.


I say old bean. this being a post about the British and mainly British posters I think you should at least refrain from using quaint transatlantic slang.**** off is at least universally understandable but what is putz? Putz it on the table as in puts, puts in in the hole as in putts?

Really on behalf of spot-and I hope he will forgive the presumption-who is a sensitive soul and might not say so himself for fear of causing offence-might I recommend more meaningful phrases such as

**** off you useless tosser

away and play with yourself

dinnae haver you daft wee nyaff

you're a ba'heid and a half you big tube.

But Putz! so innocuous a word so lacking in character. Spot deserves better :sneaky:

Want to borrow gordon brown? we'll have a whip round and buy him a one way ticket you can have alastair darling as well. When you're finished with them they can probably get parts in the muppet show since they're a right pair of muppets anyway.

gmc;1069274 wrote: I say old bean. this being a post about the British and mainly British posters I think you should at least refrain from using quaint transatlantic slang.**** off is at least universally understandable but what is putz? Putz it on the table as in puts, puts in in the hole as in putts?

Really on behalf of spot-and I hope he will forgive the presumption-who is a sensitive soul and might not say so himself for fear of causing offence-might I recommend more meaningful phrases such as

**** off you useless tosser

away and play with yourself

dinnae haver you daft wee nyaff

you're a ba'heid and a half you big tube.

But Putz! so innocuous a word so lacking in character. Spot deserves better :sneaky:

Want to borrow gordon brown? we'll have a whip round and buy him a one way ticket you can have alastair darling as well. When you're finished with them they can probably get parts in the muppet show since they're a right pair of muppets anyway.


Shut it you slag.

Leave it out

You'll get a dry slap

Do you want some?

You just send those Scottish National Party Tossers over there. They already have delusion and illussions of grandeur needed for a life in America. :yh_rotfl

oscar;1069287 wrote: Shut it you slag.

Leave it out

You'll get a dry slap

Do you want some?

You just send those Scottish National Party Tossers over there. They already have delusion and illussions of grandeur needed for a life in America. :yh_rotfl


They're scots you daft wee wifie. What would be delusions and illusions of grandeur in other nations is perfectly understandable in a scot.

gmc;1069308 wrote: They're scots you daft wee wifie. What would be delusions and illusions of grandeur in other nations is perfectly understandable in a scot.


Oh yes, i forgot that. You should all fit in jolly well in 'The New Bankrupt World' then?

Must go, I have to gaze adoringly at my poster of Gordon Brown for a while. I can't do it with 'Darling' as i can't adore any man whoe's eyebrows don't match the hair.

Excuse me Party of One, but what's a wifie please?