ForumGarden

Sorry, but I have to point out here that Allah did not create mankind, nor did Jehova, Zeus, Jupiter, Ra, Odin or any other religious figure.

Mankind created religion, not the other way about. Religions were created to gain power for groups outwith the power structures of very ancient family groups and to explain the unexplainable (which so far, no religion has explained).

Jester;1091114 wrote: No.

The church is the body of believers and they are in many denominations/religions.

Sects that I believe to make up true assemblies are those that follow new testament biblical mandates as thier doctrine, very few if any single denominations follow all emperitives of the new testament. In my experiences the denominations that grow in levels of hirearchy tend to stray the furthest from biblical mandates and seek mans own philosophies as far as what they add to thier docntinal statements and belief that are extrabiblical or misconstrude or out and out lies, the further they get form basic biblical doctrine the more corrupt they become.

But I also think that there are individuals that do perform true religion in the midst of the humanistic denominations/sects.


That is weird. From all of your posts I have gained the impression that you take far more stock of the Old Testament than I do.

I consider that my beliefs have been formed mostly from the New Testament and, in all the cases where we have significantly disagreed, you have quoted Old Testament to back up your stance.

Jester;1091136 wrote: No, I don't believe any religious group is 'true christianity'. I think true Christianty exists within this groups as a remnant of belivers througout time.That's the difference I was trying to uncover. You think the Saved are a small minority among the nominal Christians and that the proportion of humanity going to heaven is and always has been minimal.

Chookie;1091139 wrote: Sorry, but I have to point out here that Allah did not create mankind, nor did Jehova, Zeus, Jupiter, Ra, Odin or any other religious figure.

Mankind created religion, not the other way about. Religions were created to gain power for groups outwith the power structures of very ancient family groups and to explain the unexplainable (which so far, no religion has explained).


What authority have you for saying these opinions are true?

spot;1091144 wrote: What authority have you for saying these opinions are true?


You're right spot, they are opinions, mine at that. The right I have to express these opinions is as follows: the oldest Abrahamic religion (Judaism) is some five thousand odd years old. Human beings, in some form, have been on this planet for at least ten times that period.

Obviously I cannot supply definitive evidence for my statement that "Religions were created to gain power for groups outwith the power structures". I thought the under-lying reasons for this were obvious.

Jester;1091160 wrote: I do believe that most of our discussion involve Ted as well, typically I am forced to go back to old testament documents since Ted refuses to accept that the new testament is real.

I think the old testament contains many of the reasons why God outlawed certain practices, in my discussions I frequently go back to them in order to show why God disallowed certain practices. But I do believe the new testament takes precedence over the old in terms of the punishment for sin. Pauls discussion on being free from the law ought to play in here.

Typically sin is allowed to continue based on free will under Grace. It still doesn't mean God accepts that sin, but it does account and explain why people ask why God allow evil to flourish, the answer is because we tolerate it in ourselves.


Then I would maintain that most of your justifications for the use of violence are invalid.

Jester;1091160 wrote: I do believe that most of our discussion involve Ted as well, typically I am forced to go back to old testament documents since Ted refuses to accept that the new testament is real.

I think the old testament contains many of the reasons why God outlawed certain practices, in my discussions I frequently go back to them in order to show why God disallowed certain practices. But I do believe the new testament takes precedence over the old in terms of the punishment for sin. Pauls discussion on being free from the law ought to play in here.

Typically sin is allowed to continue based on free will under Grace. It still doesn'tmean God accepts that sin, but it does account and explain why people ask why God allow evil to flourish, the answer is because we tolerate it in ourselves.




psst! -nice to see one of our men here on fg said Merry Christmas!:-4

nice touch to your avy!:guitarist

Jester;1091179 wrote: Well anyone who is brave enough to look down the barrel of my six gun deserves a Merry Christmas!


why thanks partner, I think!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl



I'm in the chat room.

spot:-6

I concur here. The times change and so do our understandings.

Even the Jews who wrote the book accept that there are multiple interpretations and that those interpretations can and do change over time. If this does not happen the Bible remains a dead ancient manuscript.

I should also point out that in Acts we see the nature of the early church. It was more than just a personal issue. In fact Acts shows us that the early church was community (communist) and that community was important. They were to hold all things in common and each was to be given according to his needs.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Chookie;1091151 wrote: You're right spot, they are opinions, mine at that. The right I have to express these opinions is as follows: the oldest Abrahamic religion (Judaism) is some five thousand odd years old. Human beings, in some form, have been on this planet for at least ten times that period.

Obviously I cannot supply definitive evidence for my statement that "Religions were created to gain power for groups outwith the power structures". I thought the under-lying reasons for this were obvious.


No problem, it's just that your sentence structures were those people would use when conveying facts.

Apparently now I don't believe the New Testament is real.?????? LOL Actually the fact is I take the Bible as a whole very seriously but I don't take it literally. Some folks still have this problem of equating historical reality with the truth as presented in the Bible or for that matter the Qur'an or the Begadvah Vedas etc.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted;1091105 wrote: There are problems with the world adultery. In Jesus day it was not considered adultery for a married man to step out and have sex with an unmarried non virgin.



Shalom

Ted:-6


Jeez... go figure.. guys that long ago thought it was okay for them and not the wife...



times haven't changed much..:rolleyes:



what a bunch of sluts you guys have been all throughout history.. yet you have always blamed the female.. interesting how history always takes the side of the person writing it. bible was all male, wasn't it?.. probably dictated to some poor, downtrodden female servant no doubt:rolleyes:

flopstock:-6

The word "world" should have read "word".

How right you are. It is interesting to note that Jesus had female followers and disciples and so did Paul. The followers of Paul, after his death, tried to sanitize Paul to make him more acceptable to the Romans. Thus several of the letters attributed to Paul are actually from his disciples.

Patriarchy was alive and well and still is in some churches. It is disgusting.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted;1091269 wrote: flopstock:-6

The word "world" should have read "word".

How right you are. It is interesting to note that Jesus had female followers and disciples and so did Paul. The followers of Paul, after his death, tried to sanitize Paul to make him more acceptable to the Romans. Thus several of the letters attributed to Paul are actually from his disciples.

Patriarchy was alive and well and still is in some churches. It is disgusting.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Saul ( Paul , The Self - Appointed Apostle Was The Anti -Christ Of The Bible And Jesus Was Marry To Mary Madgalene And Had Children . Wonder Who Took Care His Family While He Was Running The Street ?