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Lately its been difficult to find good quality conversation with a lot of participation. Thanks to Jazzy for this excellent thread and everyone who has contributed to it. It's refreshing!

G#Gill;1283952 wrote: The thing is Ahso, I do not fear the particular people that I now hate. I can honestly say that I have never hated before. I don't think I have ever had a reason to hate, till now. It is not a nice feeling, emotion, whatever it is. But people who try to destroy my family with their evil, their lies, will receive nothing from me but my loathing and hate for them. Over time I will try to change that hatred into pity, but I can't see that happening for quite some time, if at all.Perhaps you're applying anger and expressing it in hate. Hate is such a nasty word, it even sounds harsh when said in passing. One of the phases of overwhelming emotions is obsessing over the act that caused the feeling and prolonging the emotional discomfort. For some the obsession lasts so long that the person feels like something is missing if they don't feel it nearby and call on it for comfort, thats person is labeled a neurotic. Many people identify themselves by their feelings.

Its popular for psychologists to advise patients to give an overwhelming emotion a name, but thats for the purpose of at least labeling the emotion so the two can at least begin to talk about it as a subject. In time the advisor will walk the person thru the maze of feelings and help them find what it truly is.

I personally believe we've become too hung up on dissecting feelings. Everyone these days is running around with a diagnosis of some emotional disorder and a bottle of pills that do little good if anything at all when most of it is just brain function thats slightly different than the average.

I think we're presently in a dangerous place because we're actually comparing each other to ourselves as created in the image of God. Those that are slightly different to a noticeable degree are not the image God intended. Very dangerous indeed.

Jazzy;1283780 wrote: Does hate come from ignorance or are people just born to hate? What do you hate and what made you feel hatred? Is this a normal feeling or is this something more deep rooted in each of us?


I hate my neighbors of 8 years ago.

we were an extremely quiet couple, no load music, nor parties.

-They bullied me everyday

This couple was in their 70's with nothing better to do. They had driven 5 family's out of our home in 10 years.

-he piled 7 feet of snow against the foundation of my home.

-he piled 5 feet of it in front of my basement windows one year

-I phoned the police as it is against the law for anyone to put anything on anyone's else s property.....after the police left their home, he came back and shoveled another 2 feet upon my foundation.

-she yelled at me constantly because I wasn't watering my garden her way.

-he phoned the city if I had my garbage at the curb 5 hours early

-he parked his truck right up against my grass with his windows open, so I could not water it.

-he drove over our grass many times, on purpose while driving into his driveway

-they intimidated and harassed me constantly

-he came right into my face screaming one day

-they hated one of my cats that was an outdoor cat at the time, by throwing

glass bottles/tins at him to get him off their property.





-they parked their gigantic hideous trailer right up against my foundation, there would have been no escape if needed from my basement windows. (its illegal to park a trailer in your own driveway)

-she came outside every time I did, screaming at me for something on a daily basis.

- he took photos of my sprinkler as water hit the sidewalk in hopes to scare me that he would take them to his lawyer.....it is not against the law to have your sprinkler hit the sidewalk.

-he sarcastically laughed at me one day in hopes that my huge pine tree would get hit by lighting, so my insurance would have to pay for a brand new garage for him. I laughed back and replied have you not read your policy? If my tree damages your property, its considered an act of god, your insurance pays for your damage..........he ran off like a dog with his tail tucked in between his legs.

That is just a tit of the iceberg what they did to me.

Yes, I truly hate and despise the both of them and that was 8 years ago and I will always hate them.

this hate is not a fear. This hate comes from people who bullied me into a nervous breakdown and forced me to move.



this kind of hatred is indeed a normal feeling.

I don’t really know, I don’t think that I have ever hated anyone.

Hate is an emotion, which I think usually has a link to an emotional hurt. The reason it is the opposite of love, is that it is somehow emotionally linked to it.

I can’t say I have ever bother to hate anyone, if I come across someone I don’t like, or I have absolutely nothing in common with, who has seriously hurt me in some way, I just don’t bother with them.

Indifference is easier than hate. Hate is a strong and consuming emotion which usually ends up doing more damage to the person hating, then the person being hated.

I think that it is easier just to erase the person from your life and not really give a sh1t about them then it is to waste time and energy hating someone or something.

When I finally worked out exactly how my wife had used me I began to hate, or got very close to it. It began to curdle me. I could feel it happening.

There had been a certain amount of contact between us, so I had a phone number. I rang her up and told her I forgave her. I still get rushes of anger if I think about some things too much and would never trust her, but I don't hate. I suppose it's what they call closure.

So in my case, hate came from love.

spot;1283979 wrote: Nobody could possibly love Tapioca pudding. The very notion is an insult to humanity.

It's known by other names, at least in the school I attended - fairy footballs and frogspawn. Nobody loved it whatever it was called.


Tapioca is cassava and the staple of many people, don't suppose they HATE it.

mikeinie;1284069 wrote: I don’t really know, I don’t think that I have ever hated anyone.

Hate is an emotion, which I think usually has a link to an emotional hurt. The reason it is the opposite of love, is that it is somehow emotionally linked to it.

I can’t say I have ever bother to hate anyone, if I come across someone I don’t like, or I have absolutely nothing in common with, who has seriously hurt me in some way, I just don’t bother with them.

Indifference is easier than hate. Hate is a strong and consuming emotion which usually ends up doing more damage to the person hating, then the person being hated.

I think that it is easier just to erase the person from your life and not really give a sh1t about them then it is to waste time and energy hating someone or something.There have been times when I have felt so much anger that I would rage inside and project hate on the people I believed were responsible for my anger. What comes easily for some is difficult for others. I wish I could have been able to be indifferent at those times. Thats a great quality. Its difficult to understand that the anger is mine and was there before the incident occurred, but the behaviors of others ignited the flame again.

Since I'm highly sensitive (or Asperger - however one wants to phrase it) indifference is rarely an option for me when I've been the transgressed party by a person I've given the power to hurt me. For me its necessary to become philosophical in order to find a place and reason for my emotions.

I think indifference is a sign of emotional maturity, which is something I have to work at.. Its (the maturity) there but I have to be conscious of it rather than rely on it to take over, so theres a delay. What happens to some people sometimes is the delay is long enough for the person to get comfortable with the anger, and reason it out long enough to insist its righteous anger. But really no anger is healthy in todays world.

posted by ahso

I think we're presently in a dangerous place because we're actually comparing each other to ourselves as created in the image of God. Those that are slightly different to a noticeable degree are not the image God intended. Very dangerous indeed.


and religion takes ignorance and fear of another and institutionalises it and makes it OK to hate someone for their religion or lifestyle. The holocaust gets blamed on the godless but it would not have been possible without the long history of institutionalised anti -Judaism preached from the pulpit in the christian church-it wasn't until 1965 that the catholic church ended it's decree of anathema against the jews the protestant churches kept up the tradition. went along with it.

I'm not suggesting religion causes hatred but it certainly makes it acceptable. just look at the current carry on about homosexuals, it's the religious that want to legitimise their hatred. God made all men except the ones you dislike?

Now we have muslims at it as well- hate the infidel where does that come from?

Ahso!;1284083 wrote: There have been times when I have felt so much anger that I would rage inside and project hate on the people I believed were responsible for my anger. What comes easily for some is difficult for others. I wish I could have been able to be indifferent at those times. Thats a great quality. Its difficult to understand that the anger is mine and was there before the incident occurred, but the behaviors of others ignited the flame again.

Since I'm highly sensitive (or Asperger - however one wants to phrase it) indifference is rarely an option for me when I've been the transgressed party by a person I've given the power to hurt me. For me its necessary to become philosophical in order to find a place and reason for my emotions.

I think indifference is a sign of emotional maturity, which is something I have to work at.. Its (the maturity) there but I have to be conscious of it rather than rely on it to take over, so theres a delay. What happens to some people sometimes is the delay is long enough for the person to get comfortable with the anger, and reason it out long enough to insist its righteous anger. But really no anger is healthy in todays world.


You confirm my beliefs, hate is anger that is allowed to grow roots and implant itself and grow.

I do get angry, but I do not let it take root, I pull the emotion out and chuck it away like it was never there.

It is good in some aspects but I don’t know if it is emotional maturity, it comes more from a rough childhood and the need to survive, no time for remorse or anger, had to move on.

It made it difficult in relationships in early stages, any sign of trouble and I was gone, often to the shock of those I would leave behind. If a girlfriend was to break up with me it would be like ‘OK, see ya around’ and that would be it. Or if I still liked them and wanted to keep a friendship, it would be like ‘OK, cool, want to go for a coffee?’ but still able to fully except the relationship was over and not be bother one bit by it.

It took a while to learn how to get angry, get into arguments and come out the other side still in a relationship.

Anyone hear this saying before: There's a fine line between love and hate. What is that fine line?

mikeinie;1284110 wrote: You confirm my beliefs, hate is anger that is allowed to grow roots and implant itself and grow.

I do get angry, but I do not let it take root, I pull the emotion out and chuck it away like it was never there.

It is good in some aspects but I don’t know if it is emotional maturity, it comes more from a rough childhood and the need to survive, no time for remorse or anger, had to move on.

It made it difficult in relationships in early stages, any sign of trouble and I was gone, often to the shock of those I would leave behind. If a girlfriend was to break up with me it would be like ‘OK, see ya around’ and that would be it. Or if I still liked them and wanted to keep a friendship, it would be like ‘OK, cool, want to go for a coffee?’ but still able to fully except the relationship was over and not be bother one bit by it.

It took a while to learn how to get angry, get into arguments and come out the other side still in a relationship.I was always the same as you when it came to relationships. Once it was over, it was over. I very rarely recross bridges. Everything has to be forward moving progress to the extent that if I get in my car and realized I've forgotten something its a real chore for me to go back for it.

As for the anger, I see anger as degrees of intensity. I don't see hate as intense anger. Hate can be benign as in: I hate that show. Hate is something I project, anger is something I own. Hate I manufacture and practice while anger or fear is something that happens. Now I'm talking from the perspective of never having experienced either before. Once we give an emotion a name, unless someone of authority that we trust corrects the perception, the applied word remains with the associated emotion. That doesn't make either right or wrong just a means of understanding what it is we are saying. I can rename a chair a car if I want but you'd have a fairly difficult time understanding what I'm attempting to communicate to you. Kabish?

Jazzy: Yeah, that one occurred to me too. I know it from Annie Lennox singing the song, but I don't know who wrote it originally.

I think it's the difference between a + and a -.

Clodhopper;1284131 wrote: Jazzy: Yeah, that one occurred to me too. I know it from Annie Lennox singing the song, but I don't know who wrote it originally.

I think it's the difference between a + and a -.


Blessthefall » The Fine Line Between Love And Hate Lyrics:

There's a fine line between love and hate

And you've crossed both sides

If I was a puppet then you'd be my master,

to pull my strings forever after

So just hold tight,

we're gonna be alright

You crossed the border line,

there's nowhere to go to hide

There's nowhere to run tonight,

please just don't cross that line

Ahso!;1284116 wrote: I was always the same as you when it came to relationships. Once it was over, it was over. I very rarely recross bridges. Everything has to be forward moving progress to the extent that if I get in my car and realized I've forgotten something its a real chore for me to go back for it.

As for the anger, I see anger as degrees of intensity. I don't see hate as intense anger. Hate can be benign as in: I hate that show. Hate is something I project, anger is something I own. Hate I manufacture and practice while anger or fear is something that happens. Now I'm talking from the perspective of never having experienced either before. Once we give an emotion a name, unless someone of authority that we trust corrects the perception, the applied word remains with the associated emotion. That doesn't make either right or wrong just a means of understanding what it is we are saying. I can rename a chair a car if I want but you'd have a fairly difficult time understanding what I'm attempting to communicate to you. Kabish?


Kabish.

Clodhopper;1284131 wrote: Jazzy: Yeah, that one occurred to me too. I know it from Annie Lennox singing the song, but I don't know who wrote it originally.

I think it's the difference between a + and a -.


Annie Lennox's is: thin line between love and hate

*it's a thin line between love and hate

It's a thin line between love and hate

It's five o'clock in the morning

And you're just getting in

A knock upon the door

A voice sweet and low says

(who is it?)

She opens up the door

And she lets you in

And never once does she say

"where have you been?"

She says,"hold it,

Are you hungry,did you eat yet,

Let me hang up your coat now"

And all the time she's smiling

Never raises her voice

It's five o'clock in the morning

And you dn't give it a second thought

(*repeat)

The sweetest woman in the world

Could be the meanest woman in the world

If you make her be that way

She might be holding something in

That's really gonna hurt you

One of these fine days

Although I never really liked the song as I though the woman represented in the song was weak in character to begin with as she allowed that cr@p to go on. Letting the guy in at 5 am and hanging up his coat and stuff.. Ridiculous.

She should have kicked hiw @ss from day one and it never would have gotten to that point....

mikeinie;1284141 wrote: Annie Lennox's is: thin line between love and hate

*it's a thin line between love and hate

It's a thin line between love and hate

It's five o'clock in the morning

And you're just getting in

A knock upon the door

A voice sweet and low says

(who is it?)

She opens up the door

And she lets you in

And never once does she say

"where have you been?"

She says,"hold it,

Are you hungry,did you eat yet,

Let me hang up your coat now"

And all the time she's smiling

Never raises her voice

It's five o'clock in the morning

And you dn't give it a second thought

(*repeat)

The sweetest woman in the world

Could be the meanest woman in the world

If you make her be that way

She might be holding something in

That's really gonna hurt you

One of these fine days

Although I never really liked the song as I though the woman represented in the song was weak in character to begin with as she allowed that cr@p to go on. Letting the guy in at 5 am and hanging up his coat and stuff.. Ridiculous.

She should have kicked hiw @ss from day one and it never would have gotten to that point....


Thank you very much for the lyrics :-6 Is she walking that thin line between love and hate according to the lyrics?

Re-thinking whether love and hate are actual feelings. Maybe, maybe not. To me I guess it doesnt matter. Its a state of being and it doesnt matter how its defined.

Nomad;1284155 wrote: Its a state of being and it doesnt matter how its defined.


I'd like to understand so can you please tell me what is the state of being? Can there be a true state of being without emotions or feelings?

Jazzy;1284162 wrote: I'd like to understand so can you please tell me what is the state of being? Can there be a true state of being without emotions or feelings?




To me its all connected. The mind, the spirit, the heart, our physical being.

One isnt seperate from the other. They mingle with eachother and influence eachother. Love makes you feel, your thoughts may try to talk you out of it, your physical self wants to play.

I hate to say it is what it is but it is.

We are more than one thing and we try to find ways for our selves to interact in sync. Trying to separate the mind body and spirit or feelings from thoughts is a futile endeavor.

Nomad;1284170 wrote: To me its all connected. The mind, the spirit, the heart, our physical being.

One isnt seperate from the other. They mingle with eachother and influence eachother. Love makes you feel, your thoughts may try to talk you out of it, your physical self wants to play.

I hate to say it is what it is but it is.

We are more than one thing and we try to find ways for our selves to interact in sync. Trying to separate the mind body and spirit or feelings from thoughts is a futile endeavor.Perhaps it just takes practice. Shakespeare made it look pretty easy.

Ahso!;1284172 wrote: Perhaps it just takes practice. Shakespeare made it look pretty easy.


Why would you?

The sum of the parts make up the whole.

Its a delicate balance.

Nomad;1284170 wrote: To me its all connected. The mind, the spirit, the heart, our physical being.

One isnt seperate from the other. They mingle with eachother and influence eachother. Love makes you feel, your thoughts may try to talk you out of it, your physical self wants to play.

I hate to say it is what it is but it is.

We are more than one thing and we try to find ways for our selves to interact in sync. Trying to separate the mind body and spirit or feelings from thoughts is a futile endeavor.


So you would disagree that mind body dualism is defined as the mind and the body being separate?

Jazzy;1284152 wrote: Thank you very much for the lyrics :-6 Is she walking that thin line between love and hate according to the lyrics?


No I don't think so, I think that she only had love, but snapped under abuse of her love and/or the lack of love returned.

Nomad;1284174 wrote: Why would you?

The sum of the parts make up the whole.

Its a delicate balance.I guess it comes down to what one perceives as what makes up a person. If one believes in a soul and spirit, I'd imagine it would be difficult to separate them because they can't even be defined most of the time.

The brain has an emotional portion and a cognitive portion and when viewed from that perspective separating the emotional from the cognitive is more easily imagined.

mikeinie;1284177 wrote: No I don't think so, I think that she only had love, but snapped under abuse of her love and/or the lack of love returned.


Can you please tell me where in those lyrics she snapped under abuse? I keep reading the lyrics but I must be missing that somewhere

Jazzy;1284175 wrote: So you would disagree that mind body dualism is defined as the mind and the body being separate?


For the physical being to work at maximum potential all aspects of our selves must be considered and weighed proportionately.

There are times when our minds are stressed and we can rely on our instincts to keep us on the right path. Other times our feeling selves are out of whack and irrational and we can rely on our minds to straighten things out and put ourselves back into focus.

Its a balancing act.

The times when everything is right in the world for me are when my entire being is in sync and thats what I strive for by allowing all parts of myself to interact and nourish eachother.

Out with the bad in with the good but thats always changing as the events of our lives do so theres always maintenence to be done.

Some people arent good at managing their emotions so to fit in they tamp down those things that cause them grief and disruption.

By doing so they eliminate a very important aspect of their being because our feelings are what allows us to evolve into loving and compassionate beings.

Some cant contain their thoughts so they react emotionally. Again for balance we need all of our resources.

Thanks Mike for the lyrics I was thinking of. I know what you mean about her putting up with it in the first place - I love it for Annie Lennox' voice and the rolling bass line. And she does leave him "that much from being dead!"

Oh. Hang on. That bit hasn't been quoted. Here's the rest:

There you are in the hospital

Bandaged from foot to head

In a state of shock

That much from bein' dead

You didn't think your woman

Could do something like that to you

You didn't think she'd got the nerve

Accidents speak louder than words

Louder than words

Louder than words

Louder than words,come on

Come on,baby,baby

If you won't give a damn about me

Come on baby,bay

You don't really care about me

Hear what I say

Hear what I say


So the moment of flip from love to hate is between the bit Mike quoted and the bit I quoted. Oh - think I noticed it was by the Pretenders, originally.

Link to the track being sung:

YouTube - Annie Lennox A Thin Line Between Love And Hate (Song Only)

Clodhopper;1284248 wrote: Thanks Mike for the lyrics I was thinking of. I know what you mean about her putting up with it in the first place - I love it for Annie Lennox' voice and the rolling bass line. And she does leave him "that much from being dead!"

Oh. Hang on. That bit hasn't been quoted. Here's the rest:



So the moment of flip from love to hate is between the bit Mike quoted and the bit I quoted. Oh - think I noticed it was by the Pretenders, originally.

Link to the track being sung:

YouTube - Annie Lennox A Thin Line Between Love And Hate (Song Only)How could someone/anyone not love that woman?

She and Kate Bush had a profound effect on my teens and early 20s. :-4:-4:-4:-4

Clodhopper;1284253 wrote: She and Kate Bush had a profound effect on my teens and early 20s. :-4:-4:-4:-4


Baboushka, How could anyone not love that woman ?

Clodhopper;1284253 wrote: She and Kate Bush had a profound effect on my teens and early 20s. :-4:-4:-4:-4I'm a bit older i think so I didn't tune into Annie until I saw her on Saturday Night Live do 'No More I Love You's!' and 'Why.'

Fell in love with her style that evening. Been listening ever since.

Here it is. It says 2009 but I saw her perform on SNL in the early 90's I think.

YouTube - Annie Lennox No more i love you's live

Better version.



YouTube - Pretenders - Thin line between love and hate (Dortmund 1984)

Nomad;1284269 wrote: Better version.



YouTube - Pretenders - Thin line between love and hate (Dortmund 1984)


Loved it and thank you for posting the better version of this song. :guitarist

Getting back to the question in th OP......where does hate come from? Do you see it in the songs that have been posted?

If Shakespeare doesn't convince you i doubt anyone else can.

A thread on hate ends up on fantastic music....?

I rather like that.

Nomad: must admit I prefer Ms Lennox' version. Nowt against Chrissie Hynde though. Brass in Pocket remains one of my all time favourites.

YouTube - THE PRETENDERS - BRASS IN POCKET

Jazzy: In the end, someone or something sh*tting on your head too much for too long. If they seem to enjoy it that makes it much worse.

Clodhopper;1284287 wrote: A thread on hate ends up on fantastic music....?

I rather like that.

Nomad: must admit I prefer Ms Lennox' version. Nowt against Chrissie Hynde though. Brass in Pocket remains one of my all time favourites.

YouTube - THE PRETENDERS - BRASS IN POCKETI prefer the recorded version as well.

Jazzy;1284283 wrote: Loved it and thank you for posting the better version of this song. :guitarist

Getting back to the question in th OP......where does hate come from? Do you see it in the songs that have been posted?


I agree it is as better version, I always liked the Pretenders, great band :guitarist

Jazzy;1284179 wrote: Can you please tell me where in those lyrics she snapped under abuse? I keep reading the lyrics but I must be missing that somewhere


It is not in the lyrics so much as it is in the story line, the guys comes home when he wants, does what he wants and she is always just nice to him never asking where he has been or what he has been doing.

She’s an idiot.

mikeinie;1284399 wrote: It is not in the lyrics so much as it is in the story line, the guys comes home when he wants, does what he wants and she is always just nice to him never asking where he has been or what he has been doing.

She’s an idiot.


I guess she's walking that fine line between love and hate. Do you agree?

We've missed mentioning the perfect hate song - National Brotherhood Week. The one that has "The poor folks hate the rich folks and the rich folks hate the poor folks, all of my folks hate all of your folks, it's American as apple pie". YouTube - Tom Lehrer - National Brotherhood Week with INTRO includes it. The track after, to compensate, is all about love. How's that for balance?

And mentioning Kate Bush and Annie Lennox without bringing in Claire Hamill is a bit unfair. She wrote and sang love songs as effectively as they did.

Can anybody tell me the definition of 'mixed emotions' ? V





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It's a fella watching his mother-in-law driving backwards over a cliff - - - - -

in his brand new car !!! :yh_rotfl

G#Gill;1284538 wrote: Can anybody tell me the definition of 'mixed emotions' ? V





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It's a fella watching his mother-in-law driving backwards over a cliff - - - - -

in his brand new car !!! :yh_rotfl


your bad and I love it!:yh_rotfl

People hate because they love. People hate because they fear they will lose what they love.

Jazzy;1283836 wrote: Would your conception of "hate" be the same conception of "love"? For instance, I love that food or I love dogs? Is "love" then in your opinion only an expression and not a feeling?


Nice Come Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wah:

:yh_worshpfuzzywuzzy;1284579 wrote: People hate because they love. People hate because they fear they will lose what they love.


Soo True........

I think that "hate" comes from emotions which expressed by heart.

M.A.S;1333891 wrote: I think that "hate" comes from emotions which expressed by heart.


it just may be.

I don't hate anyone M.A.S, but I regret the time I've wasted with the wrong people.

Saint_;1283809 wrote: Nomad got most of it already. I'd say that they do group on two categories, though:

1. People have been taught to hate. I've personally seen this many, many times. I remember one sawed-off little boy that came to our school on the '90s. He told our African American teacher to "swim back to Africa." He called every other race in the school racial names, and by the end of the first day we had kids coming into the office in groups asking if they could kill him. So we called for a P/T conference. When the parents showed up, the dad had a Nazi swastika tattooed on his forehead. Mystery solved and a powerful lesson that hate is a learned behavior.

2. People who have learned to hate through experiences. Let's face it. Life beats people up. Run-ins with other races and bad experiences with them leads people to stereotype. Yes, it's wrong, and yes it has been and will be going on for all time.


That boys situation makes me sad.

It's quite disenheartening to know that some parents teach their children such close minded ideas. It's sad to know that people are like this.

I'm of the opinion that you don't have to love everyting or everyone, but you DO need to treat other people with respect, if only to show that YOU can do it. I'm not down with the name calling. It's very low class.