Discussion on thread drift and splitting

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:47 am

YZGI;1318238 wrote: If I need or want to have a serious discussion ( a rarity, which I'm sure doesn't surprise you) I make sure to be in a place or setting that the possibility of interuption is minimal. If interuption still occurs I don't tend to worry about it to much. I adapt and overcome without getting agravated too much.Even casual conversation such as football or what one of your boys were up to and constantly being cut off and interrupted? Surely, there are times when the distraction becomes bothersome.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:50 am

Bill Sikes;1318241 wrote: OK, you win.geez, its not a competition, its a conversation. Perhaps you'll come back after you've calmed down.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:58 am

Ahso!;1318219 wrote: Thats why I didn't direct the question your way. I'm glad that works for you though.:)My first reply (this post) was obviously not clear, so I'd like to acknowledge that YZGI's answer threw me for a bit of a loop and that was the reason for it and the smiley face.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:58 am

Ahso!;1318243 wrote: Even casual conversation such as football or what one of your boys were up to and constantly being cut off and interrupted? Surely, there are times when the distraction becomes bothersome.
I actually have a family member who constantly does that. You can tell no matter what your saying that he doesn't care, he just buts in and says what is on his mind. I always start laughing at him. He often times asks what I'm laughing at. I tell him "just let me know when your done so I can finish what I was saying."

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:59 am

Ahso!;1318251 wrote: My first reply (this post) was obviously not clear, so I'd like to acknowledge that YZGI's answer threw me for a bit of a loop and that was the reason for it and the smiley face.
Don't worry about it, I actually laughed.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:05 am

YZGI;1318252 wrote: I actually have a family member who constantly does that. You can tell no matter what your saying that he doesn't care, he just buts in and says what is on his mind. I always start laughing at him. He often times asks what I'm laughing at. I tell him "just let me know when your done so I can finish what I was saying."It's been my experience that most people do not handle these situation in that way. perhaps at first, but after a while its usually a gentle nudge (which is what your slight admonition of "let me know when you're done' sounds like) and followed up more forcefully if the the first does not work well.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:08 am

Ahso!;1318255 wrote: It's been my experience that most people do not handle these situation in that way. perhaps at first, but after a while its usually a gentle nudge (which is what your slight admonition of "let me know when you're done' sounds like) and followed up more forcefully if the the first does not work well.
I figure you can't change the spots on a leopard so you might as well enjoy the pattern they display.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:36 am

Ahso!;1318205 wrote: If you could, would you implement this philosophy into our educational system? Or do you prefer structure in a school setting?
A school setting is not a chat forum. I would, of course, prefer a school setting in our educational system to be far more structured. That's because I have a limited amount of time to get my students to learn a set curriculum. Ideally, though, true and deep learning comes very spontaneously when the mind is left free to explore what interests it.

eta: I forgot to answer your first question. Yes, I would LOVE to implement the philosophy into our educational system that supports teachers teaching in the way that they teach best, with students going to those classes in which they learn best. Some would be very structured, some very free-wheeling & exploratory.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:53 am

Accountable;1318259 wrote: A school setting is not a chat forum. I would, of course, prefer a school setting in our educational system to be far more structured. That's because I have a limited amount of time to get my students to learn a set curriculum. Ideally, though, true and deep learning comes very spontaneously when the mind is left free to explore what interests it.Many people in the educational field claim one of the vital functions of the public school system is to teach social skills. I guess they don't extend to forums?

Accountable;1318259 wrote: eta: I forgot to answer your first question. Yes, I would LOVE to implement the philosophy into our educational system that supports teachers teaching in the way that they teach best, with students going to those classes in which they learn best. Some would be very structured, some very free-wheeling & exploratory.I'm wondering if the idea of compulsory education itself is a contradiction to freedom and spontaneity.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:58 am

Ahso!;1318206 wrote: Lets say you are entertaining friends/family on the back deck during a merry pleasant day and the children are playing loudly and interrupting conversation where the adults are gathered obviously annoying some of the guests. What if anything would you do?Ahso!;1318233 wrote: Does there come a time when what you guys want to talk about become important enough to move the distraction elsewhere?Ahso!;1318243 wrote: Even casual conversation such as football or what one of your boys were up to and constantly being cut off and interrupted? Surely, there are times when the distraction becomes bothersome.Applied to this Garden. We have areas designated (granted, by title only) for particular types of conversation. People that are not interested in religion or politics generally avoid such places, though they are free to enter and leave, eavesdrop or drop in a wisecrack, as often as they wish - just as in most American homes the ladies tend to gather in the kitchen, which the men are free to enter whenever and as often as they wish, but seldom actually partake in the conversation. Just as in such a casual conversation, threads divert, evolve, change, get interrupted, or are abandoned altogether with only one statement (leaving the person that started the new conversation a little uncomfortable). No one would dream of calling an adult down for being too rambunctious, unless he were drunk. Children might get a look from a parent, but that's all it would typically take. Peer pressure and social mores control the behavior, which is how it was here and could be again. No one ever called the police for two people getting in a non-physical argument; there's no need for a moderator to monitor conversations to keep things nice. It squelches the fun and enjoyment of being here, just as hiring a school marm to walk the house at Christmastime rapping knuckles anytime someone said a cross word or used improper grammar.

Ahso!;1318237 wrote: I don't see where anyone has suggested more rules, instead what I've been advocating is less infractions and replaced with more gentle guidance.

what would be your advice?Why don't you provide gentle guidance yourself, to the individuals you feel need it, and let it go at that? Why insist that everyone act as you wish to act yourself? You act the way you do because it is comfortable for you. Good on ya! Allow others to do the same.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:01 am

Ahso!;1318263 wrote: Many people in the educational field claim one of the vital functions of the public school system is to teach social skills. I guess they don't extend to forums?
The teaching of social skills do not extend to forums, no, unless it is an educational forum designed to teach social skills.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:23 am

Keeping in mind that the reason these issues were brought up to begin with was to explore ideas and suggestions to 'stop the bleeding' of members leaving and try to reinvigorate this forum, no one other than myself and perhaps one or two others thinks that one of the problems is infraction issuance and lack of willingness or understanding of forum decorum to adhere to discussion topics? These two are not issues at all then and I am therefore content to leave the discussion finished.

I do appreciate all the input and fun we've had discussing this topic. I hope its been as much of a challenge for some of you as it has been for me.

Hijack away!

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:26 am

Ahso!;1318279 wrote: Keeping in mind that the reason these issues were brought up to begin with was to explore ideas and suggestions to 'stop the bleeding' of members leaving and try to reinvigorate this forum, no one other than myself and perhaps one or two others thinks that one of the problems is infraction issuance and lack of willingness or understanding of forum decorum to adhere to discussion topics? These two are not issues at all then and I am therefore content to leave the discussion finished.

I do appreciate all the input and fun we've had discussing this topic. I hope its been as much of a challenge for some of you as it has been for me.

Hijack away!
Thanks.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:27 am

Accountable;1318268 wrote: The teaching of social skills do not extend to forums, no, unless it is an educational forum designed to teach social skills.This will be my last post in this thread because you posted while I was writing my previous post.

My thought was: what good does it do to teach social skills at school if the skills don't apply in life, including forums? Are people here not as important (rhetorical questions)?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:09 am

Ahso!;1318281 wrote: This will be my last post in this thread because you posted while I was writing my previous post.

My thought was: what good does it do to teach social skills at school if the skills don't apply in life, including forums? Are people here not as important (rhetorical questions)?The skills apply, of course. The teaching of those skills should not be a focus of a casual chat forum. There's a difference.

Ahso!;1318279 wrote: Keeping in mind that the reason these issues were brought up to begin with was to explore ideas and suggestions to 'stop the bleeding' of members leaving and try to reinvigorate this forum, no one other than myself and perhaps one or two others thinks that one of the problems is infraction issuance and lack of willingness or understanding of forum decorum to adhere to discussion topics? These two are not issues at all then and I am therefore content to leave the discussion finished.

I do appreciate all the input and fun we've had discussing this topic. I hope its been as much of a challenge for some of you as it has been for me.

Hijack away!

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Are you even aware of what a control freak you are? :yh_rotfl

The problem, as I see it, is that people have abandoned their responsibility of policing themselves and practicing assertive communication, and instead push the envelope until slapped, or tattling to the mods rather than handling their own business.

That problem has resulted in an overabundance of well-meaning moderators who see it as their responsibility to "fix" stuff.

That is further aggravated by a forum owner who has apparently grown tired of the forum but not the income it generates, who gets tired of all the aforementioned tattling and would give them anything if they would just shut the **** up.

The result seems to be that the whiners run everything; the mods (forgetting that they are volunteers & can disobey) are compelled to act on every complaint, lest the owner have to hear about the same thing again; and those who used to see this Garden as the most fun and beautiful place to be either quietly carry on in a corner or leave in frustration.

If the whiners found out that their squeaks aren't getting oil and likely will not in the future, they will be forced to rediscover that they are vertebrates or find another forum.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:31 am

Accountable;1318287 wrote:

The problem, as I see it, is that people have abandoned their responsibility of policing themselves and practicing assertive communication, and instead push the envelope until slapped, or tattling to the mods rather than handling their own business.

That problem has resulted in an overabundance of well-meaning moderators who see it as their responsibility to "fix" stuff.

That is further aggravated by a forum owner who has apparently grown tired of the forum but not the income it generates, who gets tired of all the aforementioned tattling and would give them anything if they would just shut the **** up.

The result seems to be that the whiners run everything; the mods (forgetting that they are volunteers & can disobey) are compelled to act on every complaint, lest the owner have to hear about the same thing again; and those who used to see this Garden as the most fun and beautiful place to be either quietly carry on in a corner or leave in frustration.

If the whiners found out that their squeaks aren't getting oil and likely will not in the future, they will be forced to rediscover that they are vertebrates or find another forum.

Yes, thats as I see it. I'm very disappointed that the Administrator hasnt addressed the issue or the members directly. I'm hoping that he isnt of the opinion that it will "just go away" That will just cause further frustration

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:54 am

Accountable;1318287 wrote: The skills apply, of course. The teaching of those skills should not be a focus of a casual chat forum. There's a difference.

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Are you even aware of what a control freak you are? :yh_rotfl

The problem, as I see it, is that people have abandoned their responsibility of policing themselves and practicing assertive communication, and instead push the envelope until slapped, or tattling to the mods rather than handling their own business.

That problem has resulted in an overabundance of well-meaning moderators who see it as their responsibility to "fix" stuff.

That is further aggravated by a forum owner who has apparently grown tired of the forum but not the income it generates, who gets tired of all the aforementioned tattling and would give them anything if they would just shut the **** up.

The result seems to be that the whiners run everything; the mods (forgetting that they are volunteers & can disobey) are compelled to act on every complaint, lest the owner have to hear about the same thing again; and those who used to see this Garden as the most fun and beautiful place to be either quietly carry on in a corner or leave in frustration.

If the whiners found out that their squeaks aren't getting oil and likely will not in the future, they will be forced to rediscover that they are vertebrates or find another forum.
I'll give this 4 rep points. * * * *

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:57 am

theia;1317852 wrote: For me, the Sparkle thread is a fine example of the wonder of human communication. Communication is vibrant, it moves and changes. For me, the thread feels alive. Tidiness would destroy its energy.

Outstanding.

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:04 am

Nomad;1318474 wrote: Outstanding.

Oh, Nomad, thank you :yh_hugs

My "quite grim day" has just changed to a "quite sunny day."

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:22 am

He does have a knack for that, don't he? :-6