Att: yaaarrrgg
Luke 18:29-30(NKJV) - Assuredly, I(Jesus) say to you, there is no one, who has left house, parents, brothers, wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom, who will not receive many times more, in this present time and in the age to come eternal life.
Does the scripture above, cover or include everyone, who has left family and property, for the kingdom's sake? And does everyone include the rich, who have also left family and property?
Genesis 13:2(AMP) - Now Abraham was extremely rich in livestork, silver and gold.
Abraham was rich and served God faithfully. He never let the riches become his God.
Genesis 39:2(AMP) - Joseph
Genesis 26:12-13(AMP - Isaac
2 Chronicles 1:12(NIV) - Solomon
2 Kings 18:7(AMP) - Hezekiah
1 Timothy 6:10(AMP) - For the love of money is a root of all evils.
The scripture above, doesn't say, that money is the root of evil, but the love of money. Money is a neutral substance and it cannot do anything by itself. There is nothing wrong in having wealth, but there is something wrong, if you use it for evil. Both rich and poor can commit evil, with or without money and both can do good with or without money.
Matthew 19:21(NKJV) - Jesus said to him, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
In the preceding scripture, Jesus tells the rich young ruler, to sell what he has and give to the poor. But the scripture, fails to mention, whether the rich young ruler should sell all or some of what he has and whether he should give all or some of what he has to the poor. Jesus was always travelling from place to place and so whoever was going to join him, was better off, converting solid assetts into liquid assets. And why would Jesus ask anyone to give away everything and end up destitute? Jesus said, he brought good news. So, if the rich young ruler was left with nothing, will that be good news?
Matthew 19:23-24(NKJV) - Assuredly, I say to you, that it is hard for a rich man.........
Jesus did not say, that it was impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, but that it was hard. This young man's problem wasn't his wealth, but his love of money, so much so that, he could not even consider giving some to the poor. Throughout the bible many rich people served God successfully. This young man wasn't going to be worse off, if he listened to and folllowed Jesus. God has always blessed his people.
Att: Koan
Exodus 33:11(AMP)
The scripture above, doesn't describe, what God looked like or what form he took, when he spoke face to face with Moses. God is a spirit and not human. It is true, the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, but as what? What face did Moses see? Did Moses speak face to face, with a flame of fire, a plume of smoke, a cloud or something else?
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Matt. 19:21
The word used in Greek is "iparconta" Which is translated goods, substance, property. Read in the context of the situation it makes no comment one way other the other. It seems to me that the only logical conclusion is to sell all since it was not specified as, socks, chairs, camel, child. Without specific instructions it is understood to be "all" by scholars and theologians. Now, its to bad they are scholars and theologians since eword does not believe in them even though without such people we would not have the Bible. As it is there are words in the Bible today whose actual meaning is uncertain and unknown. As it is eword seems to think that he and he alone has all of the answers.
Shalom
Ted
The word used in Greek is "iparconta" Which is translated goods, substance, property. Read in the context of the situation it makes no comment one way other the other. It seems to me that the only logical conclusion is to sell all since it was not specified as, socks, chairs, camel, child. Without specific instructions it is understood to be "all" by scholars and theologians. Now, its to bad they are scholars and theologians since eword does not believe in them even though without such people we would not have the Bible. As it is there are words in the Bible today whose actual meaning is uncertain and unknown. As it is eword seems to think that he and he alone has all of the answers.
Shalom
Ted
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1348147 wrote: Att: yaaarrrgg
Genesis 13:2(AMP) - Now Abraham was extremely rich in livestork, silver and gold.
Abraham was rich and served God faithfully. He never let the riches become his God.
Genesis 39:2(AMP) - Joseph
Genesis 26:12-13(AMP - Isaac
2 Chronicles 1:12(NIV) - Solomon
2 Kings 18:7(AMP) - Hezekiah
Yeah, these people were Hebrews. That's a different religion.
eword;1348147 wrote:
1 Timothy 6:10(AMP) - For the love of money is a root of all evils.
The scripture above, doesn't say, that money is the root of evil, but the love of money. Money is a neutral substance and it cannot do anything by itself. There is nothing wrong in having wealth, but there is something wrong, if you use it for evil.
Nothing wrong with wealth, according to the NT? Then what about:
Matthew 6:19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth"
I don't see how it gets any plainer than that.
Genesis 13:2(AMP) - Now Abraham was extremely rich in livestork, silver and gold.
Abraham was rich and served God faithfully. He never let the riches become his God.
Genesis 39:2(AMP) - Joseph
Genesis 26:12-13(AMP - Isaac
2 Chronicles 1:12(NIV) - Solomon
2 Kings 18:7(AMP) - Hezekiah
Yeah, these people were Hebrews. That's a different religion.
eword;1348147 wrote:
1 Timothy 6:10(AMP) - For the love of money is a root of all evils.
The scripture above, doesn't say, that money is the root of evil, but the love of money. Money is a neutral substance and it cannot do anything by itself. There is nothing wrong in having wealth, but there is something wrong, if you use it for evil.
Nothing wrong with wealth, according to the NT? Then what about:
Matthew 6:19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth"
I don't see how it gets any plainer than that.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Surely, to answer this question, it is necessary to have a common definition of wealth. Otherwise, I shall presume we are talking in terms of monetary values. And, if this is so, then I think Jesus wasted a lot of his time preaching since he showed he wanted nothing of what belonged to someone else unless it was given freely and without prejudice. (Think very carefully before replying to that sentence.)
Jesus was a thousand years ahead of the new doctrines I hear about today. Visualisation. The law of attraction. Etc.
What Jesus was teaching, in my view, was the power of the love of God.
Perhaps the name, God, has become too personified over the centuries. A lot of people tend to imagine a 'person', or a person's face when imagining God.
I think, considering what we are composed of, how much more is the universe, which is composed of everything.
Jesus was a thousand years ahead of the new doctrines I hear about today. Visualisation. The law of attraction. Etc.
What Jesus was teaching, in my view, was the power of the love of God.
Perhaps the name, God, has become too personified over the centuries. A lot of people tend to imagine a 'person', or a person's face when imagining God.
I think, considering what we are composed of, how much more is the universe, which is composed of everything.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Att: yaaarrrgg
The people in the Old Testament, may have been of a different religion, but it is the very same God, that christians serve today. The 'God of Israel' under the Old Covenant, is the very same God, who Under the New Covenant became the God of the christians. And so, whatever God stood for, in the past, he stands for the same, in the present and forever. According to the bible, the New Covenant is far better, than the Old Covenant, so if God blessed his servants under the Old Covenant, why shouldn't he bless his children under the New Covenant.
Malachi 3:10(NIV) - Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food(funds), in my house(church). Test me in this, says the Lord Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing(treasure), that you will not have room enough for it. I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields, will not cast their fruit.
God commands, believers to bring their treasure, in the form of tithes and offerings, to his house, so that in return he can bless them more and also protect their treasure from moth, rust and thieves. So, by tithing and giving offerings believers, symolically lay up their treasure in heaven. And if God is going to pour out more blessing or treasure on you, as a result of you puting treasure in his house or work, how can he be against you having treasure on earth? Is God going to send the blessings or treasure to you, on earth or in heaven?
Proverbs 3:9-10(NIV) - Honor the Lord with your wealth, with the firstfruits(tithes) of all your crops(income); then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine.
When you lay up your treasure in heaven, by tithing, it is like investing, because you end up gaining more. How can it be wrong to have treasure on earth, if more treasure comes your way, when you honor God with your treasure?
Luke 6:38(NKJV) - Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will be put into your bosom.
In God's system, you get back more than you give. So, can God be opposed to treasure on earth?
Matthew 6:19(NKJV) - Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth.......
Jesus was teaching his audience, how to protect and manage their resources. He was trying to explain to them, that the world economy is subject to change, while God's economy never changes, so if they invest in heaven, no matter what happens down here, God will make sure, that they don't lack.
The people in the Old Testament, may have been of a different religion, but it is the very same God, that christians serve today. The 'God of Israel' under the Old Covenant, is the very same God, who Under the New Covenant became the God of the christians. And so, whatever God stood for, in the past, he stands for the same, in the present and forever. According to the bible, the New Covenant is far better, than the Old Covenant, so if God blessed his servants under the Old Covenant, why shouldn't he bless his children under the New Covenant.
Malachi 3:10(NIV) - Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food(funds), in my house(church). Test me in this, says the Lord Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing(treasure), that you will not have room enough for it. I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields, will not cast their fruit.
God commands, believers to bring their treasure, in the form of tithes and offerings, to his house, so that in return he can bless them more and also protect their treasure from moth, rust and thieves. So, by tithing and giving offerings believers, symolically lay up their treasure in heaven. And if God is going to pour out more blessing or treasure on you, as a result of you puting treasure in his house or work, how can he be against you having treasure on earth? Is God going to send the blessings or treasure to you, on earth or in heaven?
Proverbs 3:9-10(NIV) - Honor the Lord with your wealth, with the firstfruits(tithes) of all your crops(income); then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine.
When you lay up your treasure in heaven, by tithing, it is like investing, because you end up gaining more. How can it be wrong to have treasure on earth, if more treasure comes your way, when you honor God with your treasure?
Luke 6:38(NKJV) - Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will be put into your bosom.
In God's system, you get back more than you give. So, can God be opposed to treasure on earth?
Matthew 6:19(NKJV) - Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth.......
Jesus was teaching his audience, how to protect and manage their resources. He was trying to explain to them, that the world economy is subject to change, while God's economy never changes, so if they invest in heaven, no matter what happens down here, God will make sure, that they don't lack.
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fuzzywuzzy
- Posts: 6596
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Interesting ...since Mathew was the accountant (tax collector) Why would Jesus hand over the sole job of money to Judas?
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1348468 wrote: God commands, believers to bring their treasure, in the form of tithes and offerings, to his house, so that in return he can bless them more and also protect their treasure from moth, rust and thieves. So, by tithing and giving offerings believers, symolically lay up their treasure in heaven. And if God is going to pour out more blessing or treasure on you, as a result of you puting treasure in his house or work, how can he be against you having treasure on earth? Is God going to send the blessings or treasure to you, on earth or in heaven?
...
When you lay up your treasure in heaven, by tithing, it is like investing, because you end up gaining more. How can it be wrong to have treasure on earth, if more treasure comes your way, when you honor God with your treasure?
...
In God's system, you get back more than you give. So, can God be opposed to treasure on earth?
....
Jesus was teaching his audience, how to protect and manage their resources. He was trying to explain to them, that the world economy is subject to change, while God's economy never changes, so if they invest in heaven, no matter what happens down here, God will make sure, that they don't lack.
If one really believed this, they would funnel 100% of their money to their church. The amount of personal treasure one accumulates on Earth betrays one's true feelings (that giving it all to the church is flushing the money down the toilet, and God cannot be counted on for happiness or basic needs).
...
When you lay up your treasure in heaven, by tithing, it is like investing, because you end up gaining more. How can it be wrong to have treasure on earth, if more treasure comes your way, when you honor God with your treasure?
...
In God's system, you get back more than you give. So, can God be opposed to treasure on earth?
....
Jesus was teaching his audience, how to protect and manage their resources. He was trying to explain to them, that the world economy is subject to change, while God's economy never changes, so if they invest in heaven, no matter what happens down here, God will make sure, that they don't lack.
If one really believed this, they would funnel 100% of their money to their church. The amount of personal treasure one accumulates on Earth betrays one's true feelings (that giving it all to the church is flushing the money down the toilet, and God cannot be counted on for happiness or basic needs).
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Att: yaaarrrgg
God never asks anyone to give 100% of their income to the church. But God has commanded, that a specific amount be given to the church.
Leviticus 27:30(AMP) - All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's, it is holy to the Lord.
What is the tithe? The tithe is 10% of one's income. When this word was given, the people were farmers, thats why it refers to agricultural produce. It is true, most people and churches do not believe nor accept it. But just because the majority, don't believe, doesn't change the fact that God decreed that 10% of income belongs to him.
Genesis 14:20(NIV) - Then Abraham gave him(priest) a tenth(tithe) .
Tithing has been practiced throughout the Bible. Abraham obeyed this command and gave a tithe to the priest and was extremely blessed in return.
Genesis 28:22(NIV) - ....and this stone, that I(Jacob) have set up as a pillar, will be God's house, and of all that you give me, I will give you(God) a tenth.
Jacob also tithed.
Hebrews 7:5(NIV) - Now the law requires the descendants of Levi, who become priests to collect a tenth(tithe) from the people.
Under the Old Covenant the Priests collected the tithes from the people and pronounced blessings on them.
Hebrews 7:8(AMP) - In the Levitical priesthood(Old Covenant) tithes were received by men(priests), who were subject to death; while in the Melchizedek priesthood(New Covenant), tithes are received by one(Jesus Christ), who lives forever.
Under the Old Covenant, they had a human high priest, who received the tithes, but under the New Covenant, there is no human high priest. The New Covenant has an eternal high priest, Jesus Christ. He receives the tithes in the spirit and pronounces the blessings on the people.
Matthew 23:23(NIV) - You give a tenth(tithe) of your spices - mint, dill, and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the later, without neglecting the former(tithing).
Jesus told the people not to neglect justice, mercy and faithfulness, while practicing tithing.
Malachi 3:8-9(NIV) - Will a man( or woman) rob God? Yet you rob me. But you ask, how do we rob you? In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse - the whole nation of you - because you are robbing me.
According to God, those who don't pay tithes are robbing him. As a consequence of that, God holds back his blessings from them, leaving them exposed to the curse. There only two places to be. And there is no in between. You are either under God's blessings or Satan's curse. By your own actions, you decide, what you want to be under.
Deuteronomy 26:14(AMP) - I have not eaten of the tithe in my mourning, nor have I handled any of it, when I was unclean, nor given any of it to the dead.
Even in adversity like mourning, the tithe still belongs to God. And you cannot give the tithe, to a spiritually dead church. A spiritually dead church, is a church that does not believe in being born again from spiritual death to spiritual life and also doesn't believe in tithing. You cannot be blessed by giving the tithe to such a church, since that church doesn't believe in tithing.
God never asks anyone to give 100% of their income to the church. But God has commanded, that a specific amount be given to the church.
Leviticus 27:30(AMP) - All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's, it is holy to the Lord.
What is the tithe? The tithe is 10% of one's income. When this word was given, the people were farmers, thats why it refers to agricultural produce. It is true, most people and churches do not believe nor accept it. But just because the majority, don't believe, doesn't change the fact that God decreed that 10% of income belongs to him.
Genesis 14:20(NIV) - Then Abraham gave him(priest) a tenth(tithe) .
Tithing has been practiced throughout the Bible. Abraham obeyed this command and gave a tithe to the priest and was extremely blessed in return.
Genesis 28:22(NIV) - ....and this stone, that I(Jacob) have set up as a pillar, will be God's house, and of all that you give me, I will give you(God) a tenth.
Jacob also tithed.
Hebrews 7:5(NIV) - Now the law requires the descendants of Levi, who become priests to collect a tenth(tithe) from the people.
Under the Old Covenant the Priests collected the tithes from the people and pronounced blessings on them.
Hebrews 7:8(AMP) - In the Levitical priesthood(Old Covenant) tithes were received by men(priests), who were subject to death; while in the Melchizedek priesthood(New Covenant), tithes are received by one(Jesus Christ), who lives forever.
Under the Old Covenant, they had a human high priest, who received the tithes, but under the New Covenant, there is no human high priest. The New Covenant has an eternal high priest, Jesus Christ. He receives the tithes in the spirit and pronounces the blessings on the people.
Matthew 23:23(NIV) - You give a tenth(tithe) of your spices - mint, dill, and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the later, without neglecting the former(tithing).
Jesus told the people not to neglect justice, mercy and faithfulness, while practicing tithing.
Malachi 3:8-9(NIV) - Will a man( or woman) rob God? Yet you rob me. But you ask, how do we rob you? In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse - the whole nation of you - because you are robbing me.
According to God, those who don't pay tithes are robbing him. As a consequence of that, God holds back his blessings from them, leaving them exposed to the curse. There only two places to be. And there is no in between. You are either under God's blessings or Satan's curse. By your own actions, you decide, what you want to be under.
Deuteronomy 26:14(AMP) - I have not eaten of the tithe in my mourning, nor have I handled any of it, when I was unclean, nor given any of it to the dead.
Even in adversity like mourning, the tithe still belongs to God. And you cannot give the tithe, to a spiritually dead church. A spiritually dead church, is a church that does not believe in being born again from spiritual death to spiritual life and also doesn't believe in tithing. You cannot be blessed by giving the tithe to such a church, since that church doesn't believe in tithing.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1349370 wrote: God never asks anyone to give 100% of their income to the church. But God has commanded, that a specific amount be given to the church.
That wasn't the point. You said that investing in God would allow one to earn treasures in heaven. Now you are backing away from that. It's interesting when money is involved you get a quick view of someone's priorities.
That wasn't the point. You said that investing in God would allow one to earn treasures in heaven. Now you are backing away from that. It's interesting when money is involved you get a quick view of someone's priorities.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Tithing in it's true sense is like investing in God, we just don't call it investing. I used the term investing, for this forum, but of course no christain would call it investing.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1349391 wrote: Tithing in it's true sense is like investing in God, we just don't call it investing. I used the term investing, for this forum, but of course no christain would call it investing.
Yeah have you seen those huge Megachurches. I wouldn't exactly call that investing either.
Yeah have you seen those huge Megachurches. I wouldn't exactly call that investing either.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Att: LittleCJelkton
Thanks for the beautiful images. I really love megachurches. But there is nothing wrong with megachurches. Times have changed. Populations have grown and so have the number of believers. The megachurches have a large membership, that they couldn't possibly accomodate them all, in a church the size of a small family home. They need more space. If they were a fifty member church, they wouldn't need that much space.
If anything, you should be curious, why so many people flock to them, while some churches the size of a small house are half empty on sunday. How come the small churches can't attract more people? And how come some small churches are half empty on sunday, in cities and towns, with ever growing populations? There is no shortage of people? In fact, there more people out there, than all the churches combined, could possibly accomodate. What is it, that the megachurches are doing, which others aren't? If you were in business, selling the very same products, as the guy down the street and fifty times more people flocked to him, than to you, wouldn't you be curious to find out, what attracted people to his place?
Thanks for the beautiful images. I really love megachurches. But there is nothing wrong with megachurches. Times have changed. Populations have grown and so have the number of believers. The megachurches have a large membership, that they couldn't possibly accomodate them all, in a church the size of a small family home. They need more space. If they were a fifty member church, they wouldn't need that much space.
If anything, you should be curious, why so many people flock to them, while some churches the size of a small house are half empty on sunday. How come the small churches can't attract more people? And how come some small churches are half empty on sunday, in cities and towns, with ever growing populations? There is no shortage of people? In fact, there more people out there, than all the churches combined, could possibly accomodate. What is it, that the megachurches are doing, which others aren't? If you were in business, selling the very same products, as the guy down the street and fifty times more people flocked to him, than to you, wouldn't you be curious to find out, what attracted people to his place?
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
From what your saying, one could be in the "Jesus buisiness" but not actually be christian. Like the guy on the side of the street who sells eagle's jerseys but likes the cowboys.
Instead of priest we could be mono-omnipresent-conscious relocators. Making sure you are up-to-date with the latest, greatest in today's myths, tales, and fables for why things we have little to no understanding about are the way they are(for a nominal fee of course.)
Instead of priest we could be mono-omnipresent-conscious relocators. Making sure you are up-to-date with the latest, greatest in today's myths, tales, and fables for why things we have little to no understanding about are the way they are(for a nominal fee of course.)
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
What I'm puzzled about is why anyone that seriously believes in God would not fully invest all their money in him.
If all Earthly treasure is going to be destroyed or lost within one's lifetime, hoarding Earthly money is about as foolish as leaving money in one stock when you know the stock is going to collapse and lose all the money. Someone that only invests the bare 10% minimum in God (and stores up Earthly treasure) has only the bare minimum of belief in God. You are passing up (according to the Bible) a seven-fold return on investment -- for a donut or other temporary Earthly indulgence? Why is that? I suspect maybe in the back of the one's mind, it doesn't make sense why the creator of the Universe would need our paper money in the first place.
If all Earthly treasure is going to be destroyed or lost within one's lifetime, hoarding Earthly money is about as foolish as leaving money in one stock when you know the stock is going to collapse and lose all the money. Someone that only invests the bare 10% minimum in God (and stores up Earthly treasure) has only the bare minimum of belief in God. You are passing up (according to the Bible) a seven-fold return on investment -- for a donut or other temporary Earthly indulgence? Why is that? I suspect maybe in the back of the one's mind, it doesn't make sense why the creator of the Universe would need our paper money in the first place.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
yaaarrrgg;1349551 wrote: What I'm puzzled about is why anyone that seriously believes in God would not fully invest all their money in him.
Any who consider that that any of their possessions are their own, not God's, are not serious about God- the Christian God, anyway.
Ten percent giving is not Biblical- it is Calvinist paganism, mostly American these days. Ten percent is too little for God, and far too much to give to one 'pastor' in a church of many more than ten people! It was the levy required to keep the religious professionals of the Israelites, the twelfth tribe of priests and Levites, who were not able to farm in the same way as the eleven other tribes, due to their constant duties. Christianity has no duties of priests or Levites, and there is not necessarily any reason to pay anyone, either in the church, or out- for buildings, etc. Buildings can be hired if necessary, though when the church is limited to those who actually believe, rather than those who just think or hope they do, most Christians can and do comfortably meet in their own houses, with no expense other than coffee, etc.
Any who consider that that any of their possessions are their own, not God's, are not serious about God- the Christian God, anyway.
Ten percent giving is not Biblical- it is Calvinist paganism, mostly American these days. Ten percent is too little for God, and far too much to give to one 'pastor' in a church of many more than ten people! It was the levy required to keep the religious professionals of the Israelites, the twelfth tribe of priests and Levites, who were not able to farm in the same way as the eleven other tribes, due to their constant duties. Christianity has no duties of priests or Levites, and there is not necessarily any reason to pay anyone, either in the church, or out- for buildings, etc. Buildings can be hired if necessary, though when the church is limited to those who actually believe, rather than those who just think or hope they do, most Christians can and do comfortably meet in their own houses, with no expense other than coffee, etc.
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fuzzywuzzy
- Posts: 6596
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
littleCJelkton;1349439 wrote: Yeah have you seen those huge Megachurches. I wouldn't exactly call that investing either.
Wow!!! Las vegas christianity. lol lol lol lol it's sort of America itself really . It's bigger!! ...ummm nope ...it's better!!! ....well we know it's not now, that's been exposed. And we'll protect you ..........ummm nope, not by bricks and mortar.
Wow!!! Las vegas christianity. lol lol lol lol it's sort of America itself really . It's bigger!! ...ummm nope ...it's better!!! ....well we know it's not now, that's been exposed. And we'll protect you ..........ummm nope, not by bricks and mortar.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Att: You all
According to the bible tithes or 10% are mandatory, both under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, but offerings are optional. And the offering amount is entirely up to the individual.
God needs our earthly currency to spread the gospel. Just before, Jesus ascended to heaven, he commanded his followers, past, present and future to spread his message to every corner of the world( Matthew 28:19 ). It takes and will take, a staggering amount of money to buy air time on tv or radio, ad space in publications and sending missionaries overseas. During his earthly ministry, Jesus didn't just regularly meet with his friends in a small house, he travelled constantly from location to location, winning more souls. This involved a lot of expenses.
You are right, there is no human priesthood in christianity or the New Covenant, Jesus Christ is the eternal priest, under this New Covenant. The New Covenant has preachers, but they function under the new and eternal high priest Jesus Christ.
Why rent a building every sunday, instead of building or buying your own? Christianity is not just about a few friends or people, meeting in their houses regularly. It is about reaching out, far beyond your circle of friends, your town or city, your country and continent. This is a global project.
According to the bible tithes or 10% are mandatory, both under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, but offerings are optional. And the offering amount is entirely up to the individual.
God needs our earthly currency to spread the gospel. Just before, Jesus ascended to heaven, he commanded his followers, past, present and future to spread his message to every corner of the world( Matthew 28:19 ). It takes and will take, a staggering amount of money to buy air time on tv or radio, ad space in publications and sending missionaries overseas. During his earthly ministry, Jesus didn't just regularly meet with his friends in a small house, he travelled constantly from location to location, winning more souls. This involved a lot of expenses.
You are right, there is no human priesthood in christianity or the New Covenant, Jesus Christ is the eternal priest, under this New Covenant. The New Covenant has preachers, but they function under the new and eternal high priest Jesus Christ.
Why rent a building every sunday, instead of building or buying your own? Christianity is not just about a few friends or people, meeting in their houses regularly. It is about reaching out, far beyond your circle of friends, your town or city, your country and continent. This is a global project.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1349777 wrote: Att: You all
According to the bible tithes or 10% are mandatory, both under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, but offerings are optional. And the offering amount is entirely up to the individual.
God needs our earthly currency to spread the gospel. Just before, Jesus ascended to heaven, he commanded his followers, past, present and future to spread his message to every corner of the world( Matthew 28:19 ). It takes and will take, a staggering amount of money to buy air time on tv or radio, ad space in publications and sending missionaries overseas. During his earthly ministry, Jesus didn't just regularly meet with his friends in a small house, he travelled constantly from location to location, winning more souls. This involved a lot of expenses.
You are right, there is no human priesthood in christianity or the New Covenant, Jesus Christ is the eternal priest, under this New Covenant. The New Covenant has preachers, but they function under the new and eternal high priest Jesus Christ.
Why rent a building every sunday, instead of building or buying your own? Christianity is not just about a few friends or people, meeting in their houses regularly. It is about reaching out, far beyond your circle of friends, your town or city, your country and continent. This is a global project.
If god is the super-perfect-being that is in the bible why would god need anything? On top of that how could anyone you, me, the Pope, Peter, Paul, Mark, Mathew, ect.., possibly know how or what a being like that thinks, needs, or wants. Why would a super perfect being who has created everything and knows how things are going to fold out care if we know what God wants, needs or thinks as it doesn't matter as God's plan is going to continue on anyway if you know about it or not.
This super-perfect-being has to have a super-perfect-plan for it to be so infallible, yet if we assume God created Man and does the things depicted in the bible Man is far less then perfect, how could a perfect being create an Imperfect one unless the being itself is no longer perfect. If Man is Gods one imperfection that no longer makes God perfect. Is this imperfection why god now needs material things like money, land, big churches?
According to the bible tithes or 10% are mandatory, both under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, but offerings are optional. And the offering amount is entirely up to the individual.
God needs our earthly currency to spread the gospel. Just before, Jesus ascended to heaven, he commanded his followers, past, present and future to spread his message to every corner of the world( Matthew 28:19 ). It takes and will take, a staggering amount of money to buy air time on tv or radio, ad space in publications and sending missionaries overseas. During his earthly ministry, Jesus didn't just regularly meet with his friends in a small house, he travelled constantly from location to location, winning more souls. This involved a lot of expenses.
You are right, there is no human priesthood in christianity or the New Covenant, Jesus Christ is the eternal priest, under this New Covenant. The New Covenant has preachers, but they function under the new and eternal high priest Jesus Christ.
Why rent a building every sunday, instead of building or buying your own? Christianity is not just about a few friends or people, meeting in their houses regularly. It is about reaching out, far beyond your circle of friends, your town or city, your country and continent. This is a global project.
If god is the super-perfect-being that is in the bible why would god need anything? On top of that how could anyone you, me, the Pope, Peter, Paul, Mark, Mathew, ect.., possibly know how or what a being like that thinks, needs, or wants. Why would a super perfect being who has created everything and knows how things are going to fold out care if we know what God wants, needs or thinks as it doesn't matter as God's plan is going to continue on anyway if you know about it or not.
This super-perfect-being has to have a super-perfect-plan for it to be so infallible, yet if we assume God created Man and does the things depicted in the bible Man is far less then perfect, how could a perfect being create an Imperfect one unless the being itself is no longer perfect. If Man is Gods one imperfection that no longer makes God perfect. Is this imperfection why god now needs material things like money, land, big churches?
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1349777 wrote: According to the bible tithes or 10% are mandatory, both under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, but offerings are optional. And the offering amount is entirely up to the individual.
Where is this 10% number in the Bible (specifically in the New Testament)?
Where is this 10% number in the Bible (specifically in the New Testament)?
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Att: yaaarrrgg
Matthew 23:23(NIV) - You give a tenth of............
Hebrews 7:8(AMP) - In the levitical priesthood(Old Covenant) tithes were received by men, who were subject to death; while in the Melchizedek priesthood(New Covenant), tithes are received by one(Jesus Christ), who lives forever.
Matthew 23:23(NIV) - You give a tenth of............
Hebrews 7:8(AMP) - In the levitical priesthood(Old Covenant) tithes were received by men, who were subject to death; while in the Melchizedek priesthood(New Covenant), tithes are received by one(Jesus Christ), who lives forever.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Att: LittleCJelkton
God doesn't need anything from us. He created the entire universe and all it's resources. Whatever he does, is simply for our good. If you had read the Bible, you would know, what God thinks, needs or wants. In the Bible, God has clearly stated, who he is, what he thinks, what he wants and what he will do or not do for us.
God is perfect, but he created man to be a free-moral agent and not a robot. Man was created with a free will, to choose or decide, what he wants, good or bad. God doesn't need and cannot use our money. Where God lives, they don't use our currencies.
God doesn't need anything from us. He created the entire universe and all it's resources. Whatever he does, is simply for our good. If you had read the Bible, you would know, what God thinks, needs or wants. In the Bible, God has clearly stated, who he is, what he thinks, what he wants and what he will do or not do for us.
God is perfect, but he created man to be a free-moral agent and not a robot. Man was created with a free will, to choose or decide, what he wants, good or bad. God doesn't need and cannot use our money. Where God lives, they don't use our currencies.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1349902 wrote: Att: LittleCJelkton
God doesn't need anything from us. He created the entire universe and all it's resources. Whatever he does, is simply for our good. If you had read the Bible, you would know, what God thinks, needs or wants. In the Bible, God has clearly stated, who he is, what he thinks, what he wants and what he will do or not do for us.
God is perfect, but he created man to be a free-moral agent and not a robot. Man was created with a free will, to choose or decide, what he wants, good or bad. God doesn't need and cannot use our money. Where God lives, they don't use our currencies.
Your answers keep posing more questions that is always the way with your religious folk.
If God doe not need resources from our material plane why would jesus?
If the bible tells us what god thinks, wants, and needs how did the bible come to hold these things. Was it written by god, or moses, peter, paul, mark, mathew. Hell they have yet to even come up with unbiased conclusive evidence that half of the books of the bible were written by the people they are named after or even the exact or near exact words written, so again if you look at the bible. How can a perfect being's perfect thoughts be translated by and imperfect being in any type of message oral or written and still hold the perfection originally given? On top of that how can that perfect message stand up over time and not be skewed, stretched, over fantasized by the imperfect people the message is in?
Why would a perfect being need to create anything not already available to that perfect being. I would think a perfect being in order to be perfect would have to have the perfect surroundings, materials, ect in order to sustain that perfection. If everything that perfect being already had is perfect why would it need to make something else. More importantly why would a perfect being crate something imperfect when everything in that perfect plane of existence the perfect being is in is perfect. Once you have an imperfection in a perfect world the world is no longer perfect is it?
God doesn't need anything from us. He created the entire universe and all it's resources. Whatever he does, is simply for our good. If you had read the Bible, you would know, what God thinks, needs or wants. In the Bible, God has clearly stated, who he is, what he thinks, what he wants and what he will do or not do for us.
God is perfect, but he created man to be a free-moral agent and not a robot. Man was created with a free will, to choose or decide, what he wants, good or bad. God doesn't need and cannot use our money. Where God lives, they don't use our currencies.
Your answers keep posing more questions that is always the way with your religious folk.
If God doe not need resources from our material plane why would jesus?
If the bible tells us what god thinks, wants, and needs how did the bible come to hold these things. Was it written by god, or moses, peter, paul, mark, mathew. Hell they have yet to even come up with unbiased conclusive evidence that half of the books of the bible were written by the people they are named after or even the exact or near exact words written, so again if you look at the bible. How can a perfect being's perfect thoughts be translated by and imperfect being in any type of message oral or written and still hold the perfection originally given? On top of that how can that perfect message stand up over time and not be skewed, stretched, over fantasized by the imperfect people the message is in?
Why would a perfect being need to create anything not already available to that perfect being. I would think a perfect being in order to be perfect would have to have the perfect surroundings, materials, ect in order to sustain that perfection. If everything that perfect being already had is perfect why would it need to make something else. More importantly why would a perfect being crate something imperfect when everything in that perfect plane of existence the perfect being is in is perfect. Once you have an imperfection in a perfect world the world is no longer perfect is it?
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
The minute the Bible is seen to be a perfect book it becomes and object of idolatry. It is man's response to his perception of the Divine. In no place does it claim to be perfect, inerrant or the absolute word of God.
The real question ought to be "What does it mean?" and not "Did it really happen this way? There is some history spread throughout the Bible but not all that much. It is primarily and religious book and neither a history book or a science book. As a history or science book it does not stand up to scrutiny. As midrash and metaphor it contains a profound amount of wisdom.
Shalom
Ted
The real question ought to be "What does it mean?" and not "Did it really happen this way? There is some history spread throughout the Bible but not all that much. It is primarily and religious book and neither a history book or a science book. As a history or science book it does not stand up to scrutiny. As midrash and metaphor it contains a profound amount of wisdom.
Shalom
Ted
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
The minute the Bible is seen to be a perfect book it becomes and object of idolatry. It is man's response to his perception of the Divine. In no place does it claim to be perfect, inerrant or the absolute word of God.
The real question ought to be "What does it mean?" and not "Did it really happen this way? There is some history spread throughout the Bible but not all that much. It is primarily and religious book and neither a history book or a science book. As a history or science book it does not stand up to scrutiny. As midrash and metaphor it contains a profound amount of wisdom.
Shalom
Ted
The real question ought to be "What does it mean?" and not "Did it really happen this way? There is some history spread throughout the Bible but not all that much. It is primarily and religious book and neither a history book or a science book. As a history or science book it does not stand up to scrutiny. As midrash and metaphor it contains a profound amount of wisdom.
Shalom
Ted
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Sorry for the double post.
Shalom
Ted
Shalom
Ted
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword, you've stated both:
"God needs our earthly currency to spread the gospel."
"God doesn't need and cannot use our money."
So then, the 10% tithe doesn't make sense to you either does it?
"God needs our earthly currency to spread the gospel."
"God doesn't need and cannot use our money."
So then, the 10% tithe doesn't make sense to you either does it?
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Att: Yaaarrrgg
God doesn't need our money for himself, but he needs to use it, to spread his word on earth and bless us, as we finance his project. He uses our money to help us and not to pay his bills in heaven. And he cannot introduce money from heaven, into the earth, because it will be counterfeit. God has to operate within the earthly system and use earthly resources, otherwise he will be out of order and create chaos.
God doesn't need our money for himself, but he needs to use it, to spread his word on earth and bless us, as we finance his project. He uses our money to help us and not to pay his bills in heaven. And he cannot introduce money from heaven, into the earth, because it will be counterfeit. God has to operate within the earthly system and use earthly resources, otherwise he will be out of order and create chaos.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1350003 wrote: Att: Yaaarrrgg
God doesn't need our money for himself, but he needs to use it, to spread his word on earth and bless us, as we finance his project. He uses our money to help us and not to pay his bills in heaven. And he cannot introduce money from heaven, into the earth, because it will be counterfeit. God has to operate within the earthly system and use earthly resources, otherwise he will be out of order and create chaos.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????
You make no logic out of this compared to your preivious statements. Why does god need to operate in our realm. God already has a plan and if God is perfect then God's plan is perfect unless like humans god made something else imperfect and god's plan is not perfect. That would make two things god made imperfect can't God get anything right god is supposed to be perfect? On top of that, how do you know that God needs money if your going to reference the bible then your still going to have to explain how exactly it is the bible is God's words and not Moses's, Peter's, or Paul's words that have been stretched and skewed by the many denominations of Christianity over the course of time.
God doesn't need our money for himself, but he needs to use it, to spread his word on earth and bless us, as we finance his project. He uses our money to help us and not to pay his bills in heaven. And he cannot introduce money from heaven, into the earth, because it will be counterfeit. God has to operate within the earthly system and use earthly resources, otherwise he will be out of order and create chaos.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????
You make no logic out of this compared to your preivious statements. Why does god need to operate in our realm. God already has a plan and if God is perfect then God's plan is perfect unless like humans god made something else imperfect and god's plan is not perfect. That would make two things god made imperfect can't God get anything right god is supposed to be perfect? On top of that, how do you know that God needs money if your going to reference the bible then your still going to have to explain how exactly it is the bible is God's words and not Moses's, Peter's, or Paul's words that have been stretched and skewed by the many denominations of Christianity over the course of time.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
eword;1350003 wrote: Att: Yaaarrrgg
God doesn't need our money for himself, but he needs to use it, to spread his word on earth and bless us, as we finance his project. He uses our money to help us and not to pay his bills in heaven. And he cannot introduce money from heaven, into the earth, because it will be counterfeit. God has to operate within the earthly system and use earthly resources, otherwise he will be out of order and create chaos.
If Gods wants to spread his word, he could just communicate directly with everyone's heart and not hire third party salesmen who are tempted to corrupt his message for their own gain. That wouldn't cost a penny.
Unless you want to say God can't communicate directly with people. But that would mean prayer is a fraud.
God doesn't need our money for himself, but he needs to use it, to spread his word on earth and bless us, as we finance his project. He uses our money to help us and not to pay his bills in heaven. And he cannot introduce money from heaven, into the earth, because it will be counterfeit. God has to operate within the earthly system and use earthly resources, otherwise he will be out of order and create chaos.
If Gods wants to spread his word, he could just communicate directly with everyone's heart and not hire third party salesmen who are tempted to corrupt his message for their own gain. That wouldn't cost a penny.
Unless you want to say God can't communicate directly with people. But that would mean prayer is a fraud.
Was Jesus Rich or Poor?
Well, it's getting close to Christmas time again. Each year it seems like Christmas sneaks up faster than it did the year before. Although the saying is usually true that "Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year", for many of us it is also the most costly.
As we all know, this can be an extremely stressful time. If you are one of those scraping by each month just to pay your bills, the added pressure to earn extra money for Christmas can be a little much to handle.
Making extra money is something a lot of us are worried about this time of year. With a combination of the economy, and job instability... you may be among the many searching for ways to make money this holiday season.
As we all know, this can be an extremely stressful time. If you are one of those scraping by each month just to pay your bills, the added pressure to earn extra money for Christmas can be a little much to handle.
Making extra money is something a lot of us are worried about this time of year. With a combination of the economy, and job instability... you may be among the many searching for ways to make money this holiday season.