koan;1382591 wrote: Thank you, Theia.
I hope the following story will relieve you of any feelings of guilt.
My mother is very concerned with image and being socially acceptable. Very oppressive and massive guilt trips when I did anything that might reflect poorly on her or the family name. The pressure to create a false self was extremely intense. Nevertheless, one of the few vivid memories I have from my childhood was thus:
My best friend was crying in the front vestibule of the school at the end of a day. I was about 5 or 6yrs old. I comforted her and asked what was wrong. She was so choked up the story came between heaving sobs. We walked home together and were joined by her brother and my two siblings, hearing the tale of injustice that had resulted in her being slugged by naughty schoolmate. By the time we reached my house and my mother took over being the source of comfort and authority, I'd heard the tale completely. As she retold it to my mother, I zoned out and could only hear the hitching sobs that took on a strange and rather comical rhythm. Despite my knowledge of what was appropriate, the sound started to stir an uncontrollable giggle. I tried to hide it but my friend's brother caught me. He pointed and accused "Why is she laughing? My sister is hurt and she thinks it's funny!!" Everyone turned to catch me in my terrible moment of inappropriate behaviour but... my mother stepped in and said "She's smiling because she's a happy child. There's nothing wrong with that. Leave her alone."
My mother did little else right in regards to my emotional growth but that one thing made all the difference. She freed me.
We all say something that kills someone's spirit sometimes but for a hundred errors, it only takes one time getting it right to reset the balance.
That's why I'm still hopeful.
Wow, that's powerful! Thank you.
My mother seemed very similar to yours and she, like me, was acting from a false, frightened and insecure place. I've realised as I get older that I can never begin to accept my true self until I accept that my mother had that true self too and that her life was about searching for it...her behaviour towards me was from the false, troubled self of her childhood in the same way that mine was towards my children. (I always think of the "sins of the fathers" when I say these things)
I believe that each and every one of us has that diamond self within but, wow, how hard it seems, at times, to uncover it.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
The Increasing Use of Profanity
As I have said before, some questions can be over analysed.
Why anyone today should be more angry than previous generations ?
We probably know more about why we behave how we behave, and most of the blame can be laid at our parents feet, obviously.
Much of what you say is over analysed excuses for selfish/ antisocial behaviour.
To illustrate why I think that, why do siblings, with minimal age difference have different opinions of their upbringing, and so their resulting attitudes behaviours later in life ?
Why anyone today should be more angry than previous generations ?
We probably know more about why we behave how we behave, and most of the blame can be laid at our parents feet, obviously.
Much of what you say is over analysed excuses for selfish/ antisocial behaviour.
To illustrate why I think that, why do siblings, with minimal age difference have different opinions of their upbringing, and so their resulting attitudes behaviours later in life ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382585 wrote:
oscar, I don't expect you to understand anything I say. It would be threatening. Stay safe.
If you are quoting another's words from published text, please add a link or at least credit the author. As I understand It, those are the rules of this forum and of which we all abide by. Plagiarism Koan.
Please don't threaten me. Let me give you some advice that may save yourself much time tapping at the keyboard In your thread 'Where I'm at' or whatever.... Deal with your anger Issue's, Jealousy, resentment and bitterness. In that thread you stated you wanted the world to stop hating each other.... Practice your own words Koan. You reap what you sow... Treat people with decency and then you won't get shafted for £2,000 next time around.
You describe yourself as a hard arsse In that thread ???? Not In my world luv... you have a long way to go yet.
oscar, I don't expect you to understand anything I say. It would be threatening. Stay safe.
If you are quoting another's words from published text, please add a link or at least credit the author. As I understand It, those are the rules of this forum and of which we all abide by. Plagiarism Koan.
Please don't threaten me. Let me give you some advice that may save yourself much time tapping at the keyboard In your thread 'Where I'm at' or whatever.... Deal with your anger Issue's, Jealousy, resentment and bitterness. In that thread you stated you wanted the world to stop hating each other.... Practice your own words Koan. You reap what you sow... Treat people with decency and then you won't get shafted for £2,000 next time around.
You describe yourself as a hard arsse In that thread ???? Not In my world luv... you have a long way to go yet.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bruv;1382605 wrote:
To illustrate why I think that, why do siblings, with minimal age difference have different opinions of their upbringing, and so their resulting attitudes behaviours later in life ?
So true!! It's amazing how people can experience the same events and walk away with completely different perspectives.
I think most young people curse out of false bravado ... to be cool ... to gain acceptance from peers and to be perceived as a rebel by authority figures with the added value of shock effect. Adults probably do it for much the same reasons.
To illustrate why I think that, why do siblings, with minimal age difference have different opinions of their upbringing, and so their resulting attitudes behaviours later in life ?
So true!! It's amazing how people can experience the same events and walk away with completely different perspectives.
I think most young people curse out of false bravado ... to be cool ... to gain acceptance from peers and to be perceived as a rebel by authority figures with the added value of shock effect. Adults probably do it for much the same reasons.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Plagiarism? Get a life, oscar.
There's no link because I typed it directly from the actual book, not an online source. The book name, author and page number are at the end of the quote.
There's no link because I typed it directly from the actual book, not an online source. The book name, author and page number are at the end of the quote.
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koan;1382624 wrote: Plagiarism? Get a life, oscar.
There's no link because I typed it directly from the actual book, not an online source. The book name, author and page number are at the end of the quote.
As Bruv pointed out.... your posts are making no sense.
The problem when you quote a paragraph from written published text, Is that readers of this thread can not read the book or text In It's whole ( unless you are deliberately advertising). There-fore, one line or one paragraph from a book, loses It's meaning and has no context In the debate of the thread. It may to you because you have read the book In It's entirity but to most, It's just waxing lyrical for show sake.
There's no link because I typed it directly from the actual book, not an online source. The book name, author and page number are at the end of the quote.
As Bruv pointed out.... your posts are making no sense.
The problem when you quote a paragraph from written published text, Is that readers of this thread can not read the book or text In It's whole ( unless you are deliberately advertising). There-fore, one line or one paragraph from a book, loses It's meaning and has no context In the debate of the thread. It may to you because you have read the book In It's entirity but to most, It's just waxing lyrical for show sake.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
oscar;1382626 wrote: As Bruv pointed out.... your posts are making no sense.
The problem when you quote a paragraph from written published text, Is that readers of this thread can not read the book or text In It's whole ( unless you are deliberately advertising). There-fore, one line or one paragraph from a book, loses It's meaning and has no context In the debate of the thread. It may to you because you have read the book In It's entirity but to most, It's just waxing lyrical for show sake.
Oscar, when someone quotes from a particular book and I want to find out more, I google the title and inevitably find more excerpts, more information, reviews etc. If I feel drawn to it I order a copy but, more often than not, the googling suffices.
The problem when you quote a paragraph from written published text, Is that readers of this thread can not read the book or text In It's whole ( unless you are deliberately advertising). There-fore, one line or one paragraph from a book, loses It's meaning and has no context In the debate of the thread. It may to you because you have read the book In It's entirity but to most, It's just waxing lyrical for show sake.
Oscar, when someone quotes from a particular book and I want to find out more, I google the title and inevitably find more excerpts, more information, reviews etc. If I feel drawn to it I order a copy but, more often than not, the googling suffices.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
theia;1382629 wrote: Oscar, when someone quotes from a particular book and I want to find out more, I google the title and inevitably find more excerpts, more information, reviews etc. If I feel drawn to it I order a copy but, more often than not, the googling suffices. I do also Theia when the quote Is relevant and In context to the topic debated In the thread,
I am not the only member here who has pointed out that some posts make no sense.
I am not the only member here who has pointed out that some posts make no sense.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382586 wrote: Basically, the thread asks why there is more profanity.
Perhaps it's because today's youth are in need of a good whipping or more humiliation.
Perhaps it's because they are feeling helpless and have no other tools to express their discontent.
By all means go ahead and censor language. Just don't think you've fixed the problem.
I re-read what I just wrote and it uses simple vocabulary in a straight forward approach.
If you really want to know what the problem is, you'll have to open your minds to things that may not be familiar to you.
I don't know that there is MORE profanity than when we were young
The OP seems to be commenting on how it has become more prevalent in the media, and asks if we have thoughts on that.
I know that when I was a teen there were many of my age that delighted in showing off their mastery of such language.
I, however, was raised in a family of teachers, lawyers, and farmers, who were of the mind that the use of profanity was indicative of poor education, and poor self respect. I was taught that folks should learn to express themselves without resorting to vulgar and profane language.
I have enjoyed films where such language was evident, without really finding it a problem, when it fits the characters and circumstances in the plot, but when the language stands out and becomes the plot, I lose interest.
As for children, I believe parents should encourage creativity and self expression, and help children develop self-respect and respect for others, while discouraging crude behavior.
Perhaps it's because today's youth are in need of a good whipping or more humiliation.
Perhaps it's because they are feeling helpless and have no other tools to express their discontent.
By all means go ahead and censor language. Just don't think you've fixed the problem.
I re-read what I just wrote and it uses simple vocabulary in a straight forward approach.
If you really want to know what the problem is, you'll have to open your minds to things that may not be familiar to you.
I don't know that there is MORE profanity than when we were young
The OP seems to be commenting on how it has become more prevalent in the media, and asks if we have thoughts on that.
I know that when I was a teen there were many of my age that delighted in showing off their mastery of such language.
I, however, was raised in a family of teachers, lawyers, and farmers, who were of the mind that the use of profanity was indicative of poor education, and poor self respect. I was taught that folks should learn to express themselves without resorting to vulgar and profane language.
I have enjoyed films where such language was evident, without really finding it a problem, when it fits the characters and circumstances in the plot, but when the language stands out and becomes the plot, I lose interest.
As for children, I believe parents should encourage creativity and self expression, and help children develop self-respect and respect for others, while discouraging crude behavior.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
The Increasing Use of Profanity
I think profanity is the spice of language, like spices the words must be used judiciously and correctly. Like cooking, cursing is an artform.
BTW. What is the difference between a jerk and a mo**erf**ker?
BTW. What is the difference between a jerk and a mo**erf**ker?
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
Scrat;1382663 wrote: I think profanity is the spice of language, like spices the words must be used judiciously and correctly. Like cooking, cursing is an artform.
BTW. What is the difference between a jerk and a mo**erf**ker?
3 syllable's.
BTW. What is the difference between a jerk and a mo**erf**ker?
3 syllable's.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Saint_;1382550 wrote:
The other day, a young woman was standing behind me in line at Walmart and I could hear her swearing a blue streak and her voice carried pretty loudly. "Yeah, that motherf***** C*cks***ing B1tch was over at my house and I F*c*****ng* told him that..."
There were two five year olds standing directly in front of me with many other customers. No one seemed to want to say anything, but I could tell from their expressions that they were as upset as I was. Finally, after ten minutes of this tirade, I turned to her and told her with some razor-sharp and direct eye contact, 'Please watch your language, there are children present."
Her mouth fell open for a second, then she recovered and with a snotty tone she replied, "It's a free country so I'm free to say anything I want!"
I replied sternly, "Yes, that's true. And the rest of us are free to think that you have absolutely no class." The people in line broke out laughing and gave me applause.
She shut up.
Oh brother.
The other day, a young woman was standing behind me in line at Walmart and I could hear her swearing a blue streak and her voice carried pretty loudly. "Yeah, that motherf***** C*cks***ing B1tch was over at my house and I F*c*****ng* told him that..."
There were two five year olds standing directly in front of me with many other customers. No one seemed to want to say anything, but I could tell from their expressions that they were as upset as I was. Finally, after ten minutes of this tirade, I turned to her and told her with some razor-sharp and direct eye contact, 'Please watch your language, there are children present."
Her mouth fell open for a second, then she recovered and with a snotty tone she replied, "It's a free country so I'm free to say anything I want!"
I replied sternly, "Yes, that's true. And the rest of us are free to think that you have absolutely no class." The people in line broke out laughing and gave me applause.
She shut up.
Oh brother.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
I tend to use the 2 words differently. MF is usually used when someone or something is annoying me, if I break my knuckles working on my truck I will use the term "you mothef**ker!!!!" along with a few more choice slogans if justly warranted. If I direct it towards a person it's usually male and in reference to behavior with the term b**ch serving the same duty when applied to women. It works the same way with other words
My tom cat is a jerk for thieving my steak from the counter top. My wife is sometimes a b**ch just for the fun of it.
My tom cat is a jerk for thieving my steak from the counter top. My wife is sometimes a b**ch just for the fun of it.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
oscar;1382664 wrote: 3 syllable's.
If that's what you believe than you should have no problem with profanity.
That I don't make sense to you and one or two other people hardly means it's my fault.
If you are angry that I quoted from a book that explains why people become anti-social because you don't know the book and don't want to read it, don't accuse me of plagiarism, which I take quite seriously, just admit that you're not up to a debate. You just like to judge others without using your intellect.
If that's what you believe than you should have no problem with profanity.
That I don't make sense to you and one or two other people hardly means it's my fault.
If you are angry that I quoted from a book that explains why people become anti-social because you don't know the book and don't want to read it, don't accuse me of plagiarism, which I take quite seriously, just admit that you're not up to a debate. You just like to judge others without using your intellect.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382403 wrote: Here's my summary of observation on the matter:
Kid cries. Parent tells them to stop crying.
Kid is afraid. Parent tells them to not be afraid.
Kid wants to go to a graveyard. Parents tell them that's not what normal people do.
Kid starts cursing. All of a sudden the parents care about what the kid is saying.
You probably don't like what the kids are saying nowadays because you haven't paid much attention for too long.
You couldn't be more wrong. People do listen to what kids are saying. What they don't like is HOW the kids are saying it.
There is such a thing as civility. Courtesy and manners go along with that. If you can't say what you want to say, if you can't make your point without using profanity, then your point wasn't really relevant or useful in the first place.
Or to put it in the words of Thumper, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.":)
Kid cries. Parent tells them to stop crying.
Kid is afraid. Parent tells them to not be afraid.
Kid wants to go to a graveyard. Parents tell them that's not what normal people do.
Kid starts cursing. All of a sudden the parents care about what the kid is saying.
You probably don't like what the kids are saying nowadays because you haven't paid much attention for too long.
You couldn't be more wrong. People do listen to what kids are saying. What they don't like is HOW the kids are saying it.
There is such a thing as civility. Courtesy and manners go along with that. If you can't say what you want to say, if you can't make your point without using profanity, then your point wasn't really relevant or useful in the first place.
Or to put it in the words of Thumper, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.":)
The Increasing Use of Profanity
SnoozeAgain;1382665 wrote: Oh brother.
So, care to elaborate Snooze? You condone profanity in front of young children I take it?
So, care to elaborate Snooze? You condone profanity in front of young children I take it?
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382671 wrote: If that's what you believe than you should have no problem with profanity.
.
My Reply was what we British term as Irony or a sense of humour... I appreciate this Is limited to the British Isles and difficult for you to grasp unlike the other British posters here.
Who said I had a problem with profanity ? Try reading posts Instead of this self Imposed Importance... I said I agreed with Bruv.... There Is a time and a place.
.
My Reply was what we British term as Irony or a sense of humour... I appreciate this Is limited to the British Isles and difficult for you to grasp unlike the other British posters here.
Who said I had a problem with profanity ? Try reading posts Instead of this self Imposed Importance... I said I agreed with Bruv.... There Is a time and a place.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
Saint_;1382790 wrote: You couldn't be more wrong. People do listen to what kids are saying. What they don't like is HOW the kids are saying it.
There is such a s thing as civility. Courtesy and manners go along with that. If you can't say what you want to say, if you can't make your point without using profanity, then your point wasn't really relevant or useful in the first place.
Or to put it in the words of Thumper, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.":) Well said Saint.
Children should be educated Into conversing with others without the use of profanities otherwise, they're just dumb arsse red necks with parents who can't be bothered to teach them respect for other people.
There is such a s thing as civility. Courtesy and manners go along with that. If you can't say what you want to say, if you can't make your point without using profanity, then your point wasn't really relevant or useful in the first place.
Or to put it in the words of Thumper, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.":) Well said Saint.
Children should be educated Into conversing with others without the use of profanities otherwise, they're just dumb arsse red necks with parents who can't be bothered to teach them respect for other people.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
oscar;1382799 wrote: My Reply was what we British term as Irony or a sense of humour... I appreciate this Is limited to the British Isles and difficult for you to grasp unlike the other British posters here.
I get it!
Who said I had a problem with profanity ? Try reading posts Instead of this self Imposed Importance... I said I agreed with Bruv.... There Is a time and a place.
I agree too. My favorite time and place is the garage, by myself....just after I've missed with the saw and given myself a nice cut!
(Oh, I'm also fond of in my car just after some idiot has nearly sideswiped me in his hurry to get someplace.)
Places where I'd never swear:
In a restaurant
In church
In the classroom or on the job
In public which includes at the stores
At a meeting
Generally, whenever there are other people around that could hear me.
I get it!
Who said I had a problem with profanity ? Try reading posts Instead of this self Imposed Importance... I said I agreed with Bruv.... There Is a time and a place.
I agree too. My favorite time and place is the garage, by myself....just after I've missed with the saw and given myself a nice cut!
(Oh, I'm also fond of in my car just after some idiot has nearly sideswiped me in his hurry to get someplace.)Places where I'd never swear:
In a restaurant
In church
In the classroom or on the job
In public which includes at the stores
At a meeting
Generally, whenever there are other people around that could hear me.
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
Don't you just love this excuse by the redneck parents who claim their child uses profanities because 'they are expressing themselves'?.... No.... What It really means Is that your parenting skills are nil and you don't know how to stop them.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382586 wrote: Basically, the thread asks why there is more profanity.
Perhaps it's because today's youth are in need of a good whipping or more humiliation.
Perhaps it's because they are feeling helpless and have no other tools to express their discontent.
By all means go ahead and censor language. Just don't think you've fixed the problem.
I re-read what I just wrote and it uses simple vocabulary in a straight forward approach.
If you really want to know what the problem is, you'll have to open your minds to things that may not be familiar to you.
It strikes me that you (and the quote you give) suggest that any attempt to give children a set of standards to live up to is creating a false front that they must live by.
Sorry, unless society sets the boundaries of acceptable behaviour it ceases to exist.
As an alternative to you quote I give you Lord of the Flies - that is the ultimate end of your line of reasoning.
It is not whipping or humiliating today's youth, it is setting the boundaries of acceptable behaviour that define the society we live in. If you chose to do it by whipping or humiliation then that is sad. If you do not teach then the tools they need to express their discontent in a better way then that is even sadder but, for their own sake and the sake of society as a whole, the boundaries need to be set.
Perhaps it's because today's youth are in need of a good whipping or more humiliation.
Perhaps it's because they are feeling helpless and have no other tools to express their discontent.
By all means go ahead and censor language. Just don't think you've fixed the problem.
I re-read what I just wrote and it uses simple vocabulary in a straight forward approach.
If you really want to know what the problem is, you'll have to open your minds to things that may not be familiar to you.
It strikes me that you (and the quote you give) suggest that any attempt to give children a set of standards to live up to is creating a false front that they must live by.
Sorry, unless society sets the boundaries of acceptable behaviour it ceases to exist.
As an alternative to you quote I give you Lord of the Flies - that is the ultimate end of your line of reasoning.
It is not whipping or humiliating today's youth, it is setting the boundaries of acceptable behaviour that define the society we live in. If you chose to do it by whipping or humiliation then that is sad. If you do not teach then the tools they need to express their discontent in a better way then that is even sadder but, for their own sake and the sake of society as a whole, the boundaries need to be set.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bryn Mawr;1382817 wrote: unless society sets the boundaries of acceptable behaviour it ceases to exist.
Bravo. That's what I was trying to say, but you said it much more succinctly.
Bravo. That's what I was trying to say, but you said it much more succinctly.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, Bryn.
Conformity does serve a purpose in creating a society. There are ways to teach what's expected while simultaneously recognizing that individuals are valuable precisely because they all have different thoughts and values.
Imagine a kid thrown in "time out" endlessly until he figures out how to keep from being put in time out.
Imagine a kid never put in "time out" no matter how poorly he behaves.
Those are two potential extremes both with very bad results.
A middle ground is to figure out which social rules the kid doesn't understand and explain to them why we have the rules. Bonus points for telling the kid that they're not bad for wanting to do whatever they did, it's just impossible for everyone to act that way.
I'm not promoting the use of profanity as desirable, I'm asking people to look a little harder for causes before they slap a solution on like a band-aid.
Conformity does serve a purpose in creating a society. There are ways to teach what's expected while simultaneously recognizing that individuals are valuable precisely because they all have different thoughts and values.
Imagine a kid thrown in "time out" endlessly until he figures out how to keep from being put in time out.
Imagine a kid never put in "time out" no matter how poorly he behaves.
Those are two potential extremes both with very bad results.
A middle ground is to figure out which social rules the kid doesn't understand and explain to them why we have the rules. Bonus points for telling the kid that they're not bad for wanting to do whatever they did, it's just impossible for everyone to act that way.
I'm not promoting the use of profanity as desirable, I'm asking people to look a little harder for causes before they slap a solution on like a band-aid.
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
A young child Is sitting home alone feeling rejected and worse, too young to understand why he has been rejected, because all his class mates have been Invited to a Party except him.
He's the only one not Invited to the Party because the hosts do not want to risk their guests being offended by the profanities he uses.
So when he's the only one sat at home alone with no party, no friends and no cake, his mom can say 'Never mind, cheer up, I think It's cool when you swear'.
That Is bad parenting. To allow a child to use profanities under the guise of 'He's expressing himself' Is setting him up for the above scenario. Weather we agree or not that society as a whold should have standards and a code of discipline, the fact Is , we do. Why make your child different so that he's rejected by society and shunned by other children and their parents? Let him grow up and then he can choose If he wants to use profanities. To Isolate a child based solely on what YOU believe, is downright selfish.
He's the only one not Invited to the Party because the hosts do not want to risk their guests being offended by the profanities he uses.
So when he's the only one sat at home alone with no party, no friends and no cake, his mom can say 'Never mind, cheer up, I think It's cool when you swear'.
That Is bad parenting. To allow a child to use profanities under the guise of 'He's expressing himself' Is setting him up for the above scenario. Weather we agree or not that society as a whold should have standards and a code of discipline, the fact Is , we do. Why make your child different so that he's rejected by society and shunned by other children and their parents? Let him grow up and then he can choose If he wants to use profanities. To Isolate a child based solely on what YOU believe, is downright selfish.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382821 wrote: There are ways to teach what's expected while simultaneously recognizing that individuals are valuable precisely because they all have different thoughts and values.
The old "I'm OK, You're OK" approach, eh Koan? That approach resulted in social promotion in schools and entire generations graduating without the skills to get jobs.
The old "I'm OK, You're OK" approach, eh Koan? That approach resulted in social promotion in schools and entire generations graduating without the skills to get jobs.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382821 wrote: It doesn't have to be all or nothing, Bryn.
Conformity does serve a purpose in creating a society. There are ways to teach what's expected while simultaneously recognizing that individuals are valuable precisely because they all have different thoughts and values.
Imagine a kid thrown in "time out" endlessly until he figures out how to keep from being put in time out.
Imagine a kid never put in "time out" no matter how poorly he behaves.
Those are two potential extremes both with very bad results.
A middle ground is to figure out which social rules the kid doesn't understand and explain to them why we have the rules. Bonus points for telling the kid that they're not bad for wanting to do whatever they did, it's just impossible for everyone to act that way.
I'm not promoting the use of profanity as desirable, I'm asking people to look a little harder for causes before they slap a solution on like a band-aid.
No, life is never all or nothing but your view of life appears to be skewed towards the negative.
Individuality is good, imposed conformity is a recipe for disaster, the middle way is to show children how to think for themselves. Once they know that then it takes very little to help them see what the expectations are, why they exist and how they can co-exist with their peers.
Your view that stopping them swearing is enforcing a false front on their personality is, to me, madness. You don't stop them swearing, you show them an alternative so that they do not need to swear. You don't enforce conformity, you make them secure enough that they can choose their behaviour and decide when conformity is the best option and when bucking the system is necessary. If, after that, they're endlessly thrown into "time out" you probably need to be fighting the battle with them.
Conformity does serve a purpose in creating a society. There are ways to teach what's expected while simultaneously recognizing that individuals are valuable precisely because they all have different thoughts and values.
Imagine a kid thrown in "time out" endlessly until he figures out how to keep from being put in time out.
Imagine a kid never put in "time out" no matter how poorly he behaves.
Those are two potential extremes both with very bad results.
A middle ground is to figure out which social rules the kid doesn't understand and explain to them why we have the rules. Bonus points for telling the kid that they're not bad for wanting to do whatever they did, it's just impossible for everyone to act that way.
I'm not promoting the use of profanity as desirable, I'm asking people to look a little harder for causes before they slap a solution on like a band-aid.
No, life is never all or nothing but your view of life appears to be skewed towards the negative.
Individuality is good, imposed conformity is a recipe for disaster, the middle way is to show children how to think for themselves. Once they know that then it takes very little to help them see what the expectations are, why they exist and how they can co-exist with their peers.
Your view that stopping them swearing is enforcing a false front on their personality is, to me, madness. You don't stop them swearing, you show them an alternative so that they do not need to swear. You don't enforce conformity, you make them secure enough that they can choose their behaviour and decide when conformity is the best option and when bucking the system is necessary. If, after that, they're endlessly thrown into "time out" you probably need to be fighting the battle with them.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
If it only takes one stellar act to right a bunch of bad ones, then fixing the problem should be that difficult.
Instead of reacting to anger with anger, you react with love.
That's the essence of what I'm saying.
If people are missing the reason for willing conformity, then you explain it to them. It's possible to choose to conform to accomplish a goal. If you force them to conform you've just shoved an angry beast down their throat into their bellies and it won't stay there.
Instead of reacting to anger with anger, you react with love.
That's the essence of what I'm saying.
If people are missing the reason for willing conformity, then you explain it to them. It's possible to choose to conform to accomplish a goal. If you force them to conform you've just shoved an angry beast down their throat into their bellies and it won't stay there.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bryn Mawr;1382825 wrote: No, life is never all or nothing but your view of life appears to be skewed towards the negative.
Individuality is good, imposed conformity is a recipe for disaster, the middle way is to show children how to think for themselves. Once they know that then it takes very little to help them see what the expectations are, why they exist and how they can co-exist with their peers.
Your view that stopping them swearing is enforcing a false front on their personality is, to me, madness. You don't stop them swearing, you show them an alternative so that they do not need to swear. You don't enforce conformity, you make them secure enough that they can choose their behaviour and decide when conformity is the best option and when bucking the system is necessary. If, after that, they're endlessly thrown into "time out" you probably need to be fighting the battle with them.
You don't stop them by telling them not to swear.
I think we agree, they have to be shown more effective means of expressing anger. That involves finding out why they are so angry.
Individuality is good, imposed conformity is a recipe for disaster, the middle way is to show children how to think for themselves. Once they know that then it takes very little to help them see what the expectations are, why they exist and how they can co-exist with their peers.
Your view that stopping them swearing is enforcing a false front on their personality is, to me, madness. You don't stop them swearing, you show them an alternative so that they do not need to swear. You don't enforce conformity, you make them secure enough that they can choose their behaviour and decide when conformity is the best option and when bucking the system is necessary. If, after that, they're endlessly thrown into "time out" you probably need to be fighting the battle with them.
You don't stop them by telling them not to swear.
I think we agree, they have to be shown more effective means of expressing anger. That involves finding out why they are so angry.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382829 wrote: If it only takes one stellar act to right a bunch of bad ones, then fixing the problem should be that difficult.
Instead of reacting to anger with anger, you react with love.
That's the essence of what I'm saying.
If people are missing the reason for willing conformity, then you explain it to them. It's possible to choose to conform to accomplish a goal. If you force them to conform you've just shoved an angry beast down their throat into their bellies and it won't stay there.
But your observations on the subject show just the opposite :-
koan;1382403 wrote: Here's my summary of observation on the matter:
Kid cries. Parent tells them to stop crying.
Kid is afraid. Parent tells them to not be afraid.
Kid wants to go to a graveyard. Parents tell them that's not what normal people do.
Kid starts cursing. All of a sudden the parents care about what the kid is saying.
Expand that to cover the end of an era.
Now, parents, stop whining and deal with it.
You probably don't like what the kids are saying nowadays because you haven't paid much attention for too long.
I think we are preaching the same solution, I'm just not sure that you see it as something that can be done in the here and now.
Instead of reacting to anger with anger, you react with love.
That's the essence of what I'm saying.
If people are missing the reason for willing conformity, then you explain it to them. It's possible to choose to conform to accomplish a goal. If you force them to conform you've just shoved an angry beast down their throat into their bellies and it won't stay there.
But your observations on the subject show just the opposite :-
koan;1382403 wrote: Here's my summary of observation on the matter:
Kid cries. Parent tells them to stop crying.
Kid is afraid. Parent tells them to not be afraid.
Kid wants to go to a graveyard. Parents tell them that's not what normal people do.
Kid starts cursing. All of a sudden the parents care about what the kid is saying.
Expand that to cover the end of an era.
Now, parents, stop whining and deal with it.
You probably don't like what the kids are saying nowadays because you haven't paid much attention for too long.
I think we are preaching the same solution, I'm just not sure that you see it as something that can be done in the here and now.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Saint, you're a teacher... riddle me this:
My kid loved Math in grade 2. She got 90-95% on her test scores. She came home with a C on her report card for math. I asked them how she could possibly have a C with those test scores. They said she didn't participate in class enough. That took an A+ down to a C? The teachers taught my kid that no matter how well she did, she couldn't succeed. If she scored 100% on every test she still wouldn't have gotten an A. She now hates math.
The same thing was going on in most of her subjects. I pulled her out of school for a year, unschooled her so she wanted to learn again, put her in a different school system and she is now an honour roll student.
Fixing the problem the school had created was not easy. I'm a single mom. At one point, I actually brought her with me to construction sites and turned my car into a schoolroom for two weeks in order to do it. I probably could have been charged with child abuse.
I raised my kid with an I'm OK-You're OK kind of approach but I'd call it a "we're in this together" approach. She turned out pretty good. Child Centered Learning is not being criticized. Actually the main finger pointing right now is saying the Baby Boomer Generation was the most selfish generation to have existed and that is the root of the current problems. I don't agree with that assessment either, by the way.
My kid loved Math in grade 2. She got 90-95% on her test scores. She came home with a C on her report card for math. I asked them how she could possibly have a C with those test scores. They said she didn't participate in class enough. That took an A+ down to a C? The teachers taught my kid that no matter how well she did, she couldn't succeed. If she scored 100% on every test she still wouldn't have gotten an A. She now hates math.
The same thing was going on in most of her subjects. I pulled her out of school for a year, unschooled her so she wanted to learn again, put her in a different school system and she is now an honour roll student.
Fixing the problem the school had created was not easy. I'm a single mom. At one point, I actually brought her with me to construction sites and turned my car into a schoolroom for two weeks in order to do it. I probably could have been charged with child abuse.
I raised my kid with an I'm OK-You're OK kind of approach but I'd call it a "we're in this together" approach. She turned out pretty good. Child Centered Learning is not being criticized. Actually the main finger pointing right now is saying the Baby Boomer Generation was the most selfish generation to have existed and that is the root of the current problems. I don't agree with that assessment either, by the way.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bryn Mawr;1382832 wrote: But your observations on the subject show just the opposite :-
no, they are consistent. I'll have to look for another way to explain the connection.
I think we are preaching the same solution, I'm just not sure that you see it as something that can be done in the here and now.
Absolutely. I think we are saying the same thing. If I didn't think we could fix it here and now I'd not be debating the issue. Right here and now we can stop blaming the younger generation for being angry and feeling helpless.
no, they are consistent. I'll have to look for another way to explain the connection.
I think we are preaching the same solution, I'm just not sure that you see it as something that can be done in the here and now.
Absolutely. I think we are saying the same thing. If I didn't think we could fix it here and now I'd not be debating the issue. Right here and now we can stop blaming the younger generation for being angry and feeling helpless.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382830 wrote: You don't stop them by telling them not to swear.
I think we agree, they have to be shown more effective means of expressing anger. That involves finding out why they are so angry.
I've never told any of them not to swear in my life.
Where does the anger come from? As I see it the anger in a large swathe of today's youth comes from the fact they have not been taught how to think for themselves, how to be themselves and how to deal with the problems that life throws at them - you don't do that by refusing to show them society's standards of behaviour for fear of imposing a "false front".
I think we agree, they have to be shown more effective means of expressing anger. That involves finding out why they are so angry.
I've never told any of them not to swear in my life.
Where does the anger come from? As I see it the anger in a large swathe of today's youth comes from the fact they have not been taught how to think for themselves, how to be themselves and how to deal with the problems that life throws at them - you don't do that by refusing to show them society's standards of behaviour for fear of imposing a "false front".
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Ok, Bryn,
I think the communication problem is loaded words. "Parents" to me isn't just an individual's legal guardians. I deeply feel that we are all parents to everyone's children and should act accordingly: with love.
When I say "parents stop whining!" I'm saying stop yelling at your(everyone's) kids and figure out what you didn't teach them.
My daughter's kindergarten teacher gave her a poor grade for not being able to count to one hundred. I promptly met with her and asked her why she hadn't taught my daughter to count to one hundred. She learned everything she was taught quite quickly. To prove my point, I taught her to count to one hundred over the weekend.
That was quickly followed by endless teachers sending my kid home with "homework" that I was asked to teach her. They didn't teach something then send home exercises, they told me it was my job to teach her the rest of what they hadn't covered... but on which she would be graded. That I had my own job which I couldn't shovel off onto another group of people didn't seem to sink in with them.
When my kid went to school, she entered their environment and they became her temporary custodians. They didn't care as much about her as I did. They were more concerned with their unions. They failed as parents. My kid's language became more and more angry until I took her out of school.
I think the communication problem is loaded words. "Parents" to me isn't just an individual's legal guardians. I deeply feel that we are all parents to everyone's children and should act accordingly: with love.
When I say "parents stop whining!" I'm saying stop yelling at your(everyone's) kids and figure out what you didn't teach them.
My daughter's kindergarten teacher gave her a poor grade for not being able to count to one hundred. I promptly met with her and asked her why she hadn't taught my daughter to count to one hundred. She learned everything she was taught quite quickly. To prove my point, I taught her to count to one hundred over the weekend.
That was quickly followed by endless teachers sending my kid home with "homework" that I was asked to teach her. They didn't teach something then send home exercises, they told me it was my job to teach her the rest of what they hadn't covered... but on which she would be graded. That I had my own job which I couldn't shovel off onto another group of people didn't seem to sink in with them.
When my kid went to school, she entered their environment and they became her temporary custodians. They didn't care as much about her as I did. They were more concerned with their unions. They failed as parents. My kid's language became more and more angry until I took her out of school.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382834 wrote: Saint, you're a teacher... riddle me this:
My kid loved Math in grade 2. She got 90-95% on her test scores. She came home with a C on her report card for math. I asked them how she could possibly have a C with those test scores. They said she didn't participate in class enough. That took an A+ down to a C?
Sure, interacting is handing in work, be it verbal response, kinesthetic response, or written response. If the student doesn't interact, then how can they show that they have learned? Think about it, telling your boss that you know how to do something doesn't cut it, you have to show you can do it.
and in the real world, it's all about the day to day effort, not just doing well on the test.
The teachers taught my kid that no matter how well she did, she couldn't succeed. If she scored 100% on every test she still wouldn't have gotten an A.
No, they taught her that just knowing something isn't enough to succeed. It's consistent action and interaction that succeeds in life. If you didn't participate at your job, but were very knowledgeable about it, how far do you think that would get you?
"Sorry boss, I don't want to talk to those customers or run that meeting, can't I just take a test on it?"
She now hates math.
Which of course is her reaction to YOUR interpretation of events. You did that, Koan.
At one point, I actually brought her with me to construction sites and turned my car into a schoolroom for two weeks in order to do it.
And in doing so, taught her exactly what the other teacher was trying to teach, that daily work and participation is critical on the job, not just testing. I rest my case.
I raised my kid with an I'm OK-You're OK kind of approach ...the Baby Boomer Generation was the most selfish generation to have existed and that is the root of the current problems.
That approach is why that generation has trouble. You kill me, Koan, you really do. You're so smart you get lost in your own logic.
My kid loved Math in grade 2. She got 90-95% on her test scores. She came home with a C on her report card for math. I asked them how she could possibly have a C with those test scores. They said she didn't participate in class enough. That took an A+ down to a C?
Sure, interacting is handing in work, be it verbal response, kinesthetic response, or written response. If the student doesn't interact, then how can they show that they have learned? Think about it, telling your boss that you know how to do something doesn't cut it, you have to show you can do it.
and in the real world, it's all about the day to day effort, not just doing well on the test.
The teachers taught my kid that no matter how well she did, she couldn't succeed. If she scored 100% on every test she still wouldn't have gotten an A.
No, they taught her that just knowing something isn't enough to succeed. It's consistent action and interaction that succeeds in life. If you didn't participate at your job, but were very knowledgeable about it, how far do you think that would get you?
"Sorry boss, I don't want to talk to those customers or run that meeting, can't I just take a test on it?"
She now hates math.
Which of course is her reaction to YOUR interpretation of events. You did that, Koan.
At one point, I actually brought her with me to construction sites and turned my car into a schoolroom for two weeks in order to do it.
And in doing so, taught her exactly what the other teacher was trying to teach, that daily work and participation is critical on the job, not just testing. I rest my case.
I raised my kid with an I'm OK-You're OK kind of approach ...the Baby Boomer Generation was the most selfish generation to have existed and that is the root of the current problems.
That approach is why that generation has trouble. You kill me, Koan, you really do. You're so smart you get lost in your own logic.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Here's a positive story about teachers:
I was really athletic when I was young and I worked out a lot of emotional issues through track and field. In grade 4 a new student came who was better than me at the long jump. Instead of bumping me off the long jump team, the coach spent half an hour with me every day after school teaching me the high jump. I was also on the track team so he didn't have to feel bad about bumping me out of my secondary event, he just cared about me and knew that I needed it. I ended up winning the high jump almost every year until I stopped doing it in high school. I can't even begin to tell you how many ways that teacher saved me by paying attention. I was being sexually abused by an older boy across the street, beaten on by another boy down the street, and no one intervened. The half hour this man took to teach me a way to take back my sense of physical control in life changed my path forever.
He was one of the best parents in my life and I only knew him for a year.
I was really athletic when I was young and I worked out a lot of emotional issues through track and field. In grade 4 a new student came who was better than me at the long jump. Instead of bumping me off the long jump team, the coach spent half an hour with me every day after school teaching me the high jump. I was also on the track team so he didn't have to feel bad about bumping me out of my secondary event, he just cared about me and knew that I needed it. I ended up winning the high jump almost every year until I stopped doing it in high school. I can't even begin to tell you how many ways that teacher saved me by paying attention. I was being sexually abused by an older boy across the street, beaten on by another boy down the street, and no one intervened. The half hour this man took to teach me a way to take back my sense of physical control in life changed my path forever.
He was one of the best parents in my life and I only knew him for a year.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382846 wrote: Here's a positive story about teachers:
I was really athletic when I was young and I worked out a lot of emotional issues through track and field. In grade 4 a new student came who was better than me at the long jump. Instead of bumping me off the long jump team, the coach spent half an hour with me every day after school teaching me the high jump. I was also on the track team so he didn't have to feel bad about bumping me out of my secondary event, he just cared about me and knew that I needed it. I ended up winning the high jump almost every year until I stopped doing it in high school. I can't even begin to tell you how many ways that teacher saved me by paying attention. I was being sexually abused by an older boy across the street, beaten on by another boy down the street, and no one intervened. The half hour this man took to teach me a way to take back my sense of physical control in life changed my path forever.
He was one of the best parents in my life and I only knew him for a year.
Very nice. And doesn't that story prove that participation is critical? It wasn't just that you could do well at the track meet, it was the the practice and daily work that had the greatest effect on you!
I was really athletic when I was young and I worked out a lot of emotional issues through track and field. In grade 4 a new student came who was better than me at the long jump. Instead of bumping me off the long jump team, the coach spent half an hour with me every day after school teaching me the high jump. I was also on the track team so he didn't have to feel bad about bumping me out of my secondary event, he just cared about me and knew that I needed it. I ended up winning the high jump almost every year until I stopped doing it in high school. I can't even begin to tell you how many ways that teacher saved me by paying attention. I was being sexually abused by an older boy across the street, beaten on by another boy down the street, and no one intervened. The half hour this man took to teach me a way to take back my sense of physical control in life changed my path forever.
He was one of the best parents in my life and I only knew him for a year.
Very nice. And doesn't that story prove that participation is critical? It wasn't just that you could do well at the track meet, it was the the practice and daily work that had the greatest effect on you!
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382840 wrote: Ok, Bryn,
I think the communication problem is loaded words. "Parents" to me isn't just an individual's legal guardians. I deeply feel that we are all parents to everyone's children and should act accordingly: with love.
When I say "parents stop whining!" I'm saying stop yelling at your(everyone's) kids and figure out what you didn't teach them.
My daughter's kindergarten teacher gave her a poor grade for not being able to count to one hundred. I promptly met with her and asked her why she hadn't taught my daughter to count to one hundred. She learned everything she was taught quite quickly. To prove my point, I taught her to count to one hundred over the weekend.
That was quickly followed by endless teachers sending my kid home with "homework" that I was asked to teach her. They didn't teach something then send home exercises, they told me it was my job to teach her the rest of what they hadn't covered... but on which she would be graded. That I had my own job which I couldn't shovel off onto another group of people didn't seem to sink in with them.
When my kid went to school, she entered their environment and they became her temporary custodians. They didn't care as much about her as I did. They were more concerned with their unions. They failed as parents. My kid's language became more and more angry until I took her out of school.
I am the parent of my children and I do for them everything that I can.
Beyond that, I believe that it is every adult's duty to protect children in any way we can.
But I cannot and will not accept responsibility for the way that others bring up their children and I would expect, rightly, that another parent would resent and reject any interference from me in the raising of their child(ren).
I can deplore the actions of others when they beat their kids and, if it goes too far, I can report it to the relevant authorities but I cannot stop them from doing it.
Society should not lower its standards to make allowances for bad parents, it should deal with the bad parenting as a root cause.
I think the communication problem is loaded words. "Parents" to me isn't just an individual's legal guardians. I deeply feel that we are all parents to everyone's children and should act accordingly: with love.
When I say "parents stop whining!" I'm saying stop yelling at your(everyone's) kids and figure out what you didn't teach them.
My daughter's kindergarten teacher gave her a poor grade for not being able to count to one hundred. I promptly met with her and asked her why she hadn't taught my daughter to count to one hundred. She learned everything she was taught quite quickly. To prove my point, I taught her to count to one hundred over the weekend.
That was quickly followed by endless teachers sending my kid home with "homework" that I was asked to teach her. They didn't teach something then send home exercises, they told me it was my job to teach her the rest of what they hadn't covered... but on which she would be graded. That I had my own job which I couldn't shovel off onto another group of people didn't seem to sink in with them.
When my kid went to school, she entered their environment and they became her temporary custodians. They didn't care as much about her as I did. They were more concerned with their unions. They failed as parents. My kid's language became more and more angry until I took her out of school.
I am the parent of my children and I do for them everything that I can.
Beyond that, I believe that it is every adult's duty to protect children in any way we can.
But I cannot and will not accept responsibility for the way that others bring up their children and I would expect, rightly, that another parent would resent and reject any interference from me in the raising of their child(ren).
I can deplore the actions of others when they beat their kids and, if it goes too far, I can report it to the relevant authorities but I cannot stop them from doing it.
Society should not lower its standards to make allowances for bad parents, it should deal with the bad parenting as a root cause.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Saint_;1382845 wrote: Sure, interacting is handing in work, be it verbal response, kinesthetic response, or written response. If the student doesn't interact, then how can they show that they have learned? Think about it, telling your boss that you know how to do something doesn't cut it, you have to show you can do it.
and in the real world, it's all about the day to day effort, not just doing well on the test.
No, they taught her that just knowing something isn't enough to succeed. It's consistent action and interaction that succeeds in life. If you didn't participate at your job, but were very knowledgeable about it, how far do you think that would get you?
"Sorry boss, I don't want to talk to those customers or run that meeting, can't I just take a test on it?"
Which of course is her reaction to YOUR interpretation of events. You did that, Koan.
And in doing so, taught her exactly what the other teacher was trying to teach, that daily work and participation is critical on the job, not just testing. I rest my case.
That approach is why that generation has trouble. You kill me, Koan, you really do.
Again, extremely well put Saint.
and in the real world, it's all about the day to day effort, not just doing well on the test.
No, they taught her that just knowing something isn't enough to succeed. It's consistent action and interaction that succeeds in life. If you didn't participate at your job, but were very knowledgeable about it, how far do you think that would get you?
"Sorry boss, I don't want to talk to those customers or run that meeting, can't I just take a test on it?"
Which of course is her reaction to YOUR interpretation of events. You did that, Koan.
And in doing so, taught her exactly what the other teacher was trying to teach, that daily work and participation is critical on the job, not just testing. I rest my case.
That approach is why that generation has trouble. You kill me, Koan, you really do.
Again, extremely well put Saint.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Saint...
thanks for solving the riddle.
That kind of stuff is going on because teachers are justifying it and continuing to blame the parents.
thanks for solving the riddle.
That kind of stuff is going on because teachers are justifying it and continuing to blame the parents.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bryn Mawr;1382848 wrote: I am the parent of my children and I do for them everything that I can.
Beyond that, I believe that it is every adult's duty to protect children in any way we can.
But I cannot and will not accept responsibility for the way that others bring up their children and I would expect, rightly, that another parent would resent and reject any interference from me in the raising of their child(ren).
I can deplore the actions of others when they beat their kids and, if it goes too far, I can report it to the relevant authorities but I cannot stop them from doing it.
Society should not lower its standards to make allowances for bad parents, it should deal with the bad parenting as a root cause.
But we are raising each others' children every day as we encounter and interact with them.
Many of the parents bringing their kids to Mary Pipher were hurt and confused and loved their kids desperately. They had no control over what happened to them every time they left the house.
In addition to that, I am well aware that all households are not created equal. That I went to work 14 hours a day and still found time to pay attention to my kid doesn't mean everyone can. Where does the judgement stop? A bad parent has another bad parent behind them that has another bad parent behind them. Finding the right person to hang doesn't solve the problem of the current kid who needs help.
Beyond that, I believe that it is every adult's duty to protect children in any way we can.
But I cannot and will not accept responsibility for the way that others bring up their children and I would expect, rightly, that another parent would resent and reject any interference from me in the raising of their child(ren).
I can deplore the actions of others when they beat their kids and, if it goes too far, I can report it to the relevant authorities but I cannot stop them from doing it.
Society should not lower its standards to make allowances for bad parents, it should deal with the bad parenting as a root cause.
But we are raising each others' children every day as we encounter and interact with them.
Many of the parents bringing their kids to Mary Pipher were hurt and confused and loved their kids desperately. They had no control over what happened to them every time they left the house.
In addition to that, I am well aware that all households are not created equal. That I went to work 14 hours a day and still found time to pay attention to my kid doesn't mean everyone can. Where does the judgement stop? A bad parent has another bad parent behind them that has another bad parent behind them. Finding the right person to hang doesn't solve the problem of the current kid who needs help.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Maybe I can bend this thread around again to the subject, would any of us teach a 7-year old to swear? Or condone it if the child used profanity? No. So why does it suddenly become OK when we get older?
It was poor behavior at the beginning, shouldn't it be poor behavior later?
It was poor behavior at the beginning, shouldn't it be poor behavior later?
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Oscar Namechange
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
Saint_;1382888 wrote: Maybe I can bend this thread around again to the subject, would any of us teach a 7-year old to swear? Or condone it if the child used profanity? No. So why does it suddenly become OK when we get older?
It was poor behavior at the beginning, shouldn't it be poor behavior later?
I don't think anyone actually teaches their kid to swear but there are reasons why they allow It I think.
I have a neighbour who thinks It's OK for her young children to swear. The kids sit at home weekends lonely because they are never Invited anywhere.
The Mother, I get the Impression uses the kids swearing as If to draw attention to herself. It's like she's saying.... 'Hey look at me... Look what a rebel I am and how cool I am'. Look what a bad arsse I am.... Kudos to me.... errr no...!!! More trying to earn Kudos through their kids.
Then a few weeks ago I was at a political conference.... To cut a long story short, one of my men friends brought his 10 year old son along simply due to no child care being available at the time. After 8 hours on the way home, I turned to this kid and told him that his Father should rightly be very proud of him for he was a credit to him due to the curteous way he had behaved with his Dad's peers.
Rebel bad arsse or Father of a polite, civil kid who I'd have no hesitation In Inviting anywhere ? I know what I prefer.
It was poor behavior at the beginning, shouldn't it be poor behavior later?
I don't think anyone actually teaches their kid to swear but there are reasons why they allow It I think.
I have a neighbour who thinks It's OK for her young children to swear. The kids sit at home weekends lonely because they are never Invited anywhere.
The Mother, I get the Impression uses the kids swearing as If to draw attention to herself. It's like she's saying.... 'Hey look at me... Look what a rebel I am and how cool I am'. Look what a bad arsse I am.... Kudos to me.... errr no...!!! More trying to earn Kudos through their kids.
Then a few weeks ago I was at a political conference.... To cut a long story short, one of my men friends brought his 10 year old son along simply due to no child care being available at the time. After 8 hours on the way home, I turned to this kid and told him that his Father should rightly be very proud of him for he was a credit to him due to the curteous way he had behaved with his Dad's peers.
Rebel bad arsse or Father of a polite, civil kid who I'd have no hesitation In Inviting anywhere ? I know what I prefer.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon