Explanation Sought for Bible Story

[Bryn Mawr]

Pappy;1390074 wrote: And who says that this jesus ever spoke a word? Who heard him? Could not have been the NT authors since they were some 40 to 130 years after the fact. So other than the NT what evidence is there that this character spoke anything? Does myth sound strange?


The normal dates given to the writing of the Gospels range from 50 to 100AD. Given the generally accepted date of the Ministry of 30 to 33AD that is well within the range of them being a first hand account.

As to the second question, yes, there is some which, given that he was a local preacher (one of several in the area at the time) in a backwater province of the Empire with little written history other than official documents, is, in itself, surprising.

[Bryn Mawr]

spot;1390084 wrote: This wasn't book publishing. There might have been ten or twenty copies of each Gospel for the first fifty years of their existence, people were converted by promises face to face. I'd suggest that the proportion of Christians by 200AD who'd heard the nativity stories was a small minority.

Equally, those who said it couldn't be so had no channel to make their comment permanent. Those few may well have said it. Some scratched heads and shrugged shoulders resulted.


You don't think that the Pharisees would have jumped on any such evidence and publicised it in an effort to discredit this upstart cult?

[spot]

Bryn Mawr;1390167 wrote: You don't think that the Pharisees would have jumped on any such evidence and publicised it in an effort to discredit this upstart cult?
I expect they would. Why would you expect to know they had, though? Who'd have told you?

[LarsMac]

Ahso!;1390125 wrote: Lots of people have existed who have been inspired by their God.

You believe the Jesus of the New testament existed? The one who raised dead people, actually walked on water, calmed seas, turned water into wine, rose from the dead himself and now sits at the right hand of God and intercedes on the behalf of those who are willing to call him the son of god? The person of the Godhead who created his own arch enemy, the devil, only to defeat him? That's what some here refer to as an Aunt Sally, isn't it?
Like I said:

LarsMac;1390122 wrote: I don't go in much for all the dogma, but I have no doubt that the man existed.

...

Separating all the tall tales from the real person is a bit of a chore.


Do you reject that Davy Crockett existed, because the tale of of a three-year-old killing a bear is unbelievable?

Jesus was not the only one who raised the dead in the bible, nor the only one to heal the sick.

If legends have their way, he was not the only one born of a virgin.

If he was just a simple human being who said to love your neighbor and even you enemy, would you listen?

[Ahso!]

Well then what do you mean when you say you have no doubt that the man existed? The name Jesus was common, I believe, and I'm sure more than one said a few nice things and believed in god. Which man are you talking about?

[LarsMac]

LarsMac;1390122 wrote: I don't go in much for all the dogma, but I have no doubt that the man existed.

I also have no doubt that he was inspired by God.

Separating all the tall tales from the real person is a bit of a chore.


Ahso!;1390125 wrote: Lots of people have existed who have been inspired by their God.

You believe the Jesus of the New testament existed? The one who raised dead people, actually walked on water, calmed seas, turned water into wine, rose from the dead himself and now sits at the right hand of God and intercedes on the behalf of those who are willing to call him the son of god? The person of the Godhead who created his own arch enemy, the devil, only to defeat him? That's what some here refer to as an Aunt Sally, isn't it?


Ahso!;1390187 wrote: Well then what do you mean when you say you have no doubt that the man existed? The name Jesus was common, I believe, and I'm sure more than one said a few nice things and believed in god. Which man are you talking about?


I am talking about the man, Yeshua ben Yusef, who spoke the words as recorded in the texts that became the Holy Bible.

That same man, who is called the Son of the Living God. The Messiah. The one the Christians call Jesus the Christ. redeemer of Mankind.

My only argument is that obvious misstatements made by those who wrote the stories down, do not negate the probability that he was in fact a real, living person.

My belief, or your lack of, is equally irrelevant to truth of that.

Neither of us will ever be able to conjure up evidence to discount the other.

[Bryn Mawr]

spot;1390175 wrote: I expect they would. Why would you expect to know they had, though? Who'd have told you?


True, not something I'd thought of.

[Ahso!]

You believe in the prophecy and the virgin birth then?