Hypocritical Native Americans

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:58 pm

Im 30 min west of Minneapolis on Lake Minnetonka

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:01 pm

I doubt there many places in this country that do not have NA roots.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:04 pm

OOOOH your too close! :wah:

I'm in West Bloomington.

I agree navalleyvee!

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:07 pm

Wow

Im choking on a chicken bone right now but we will talk more ok ?

GAG

ACKKK

SPUTTER

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:08 pm

I am 1,000th NA - I say that because I do a lot of genealogy and found one of my first ancesters in this country married a NA woman named Sundown in Virginia in 1732. The culture was bread out and lost to every generation after that.:-1

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:12 pm

Im choking on a chicken bone right now but we will talk more ok ?

:wah: OK!

I am 1,000th NA - I say that because I do a lot of genealogy and found one of my first ancesters in this country married a NA woman named Sundown in Virginia in 1732. The culture was bread out and lost to every generation after that.

That is too bad nvalleyvee. Have you done any extensive research? Maybe you can get in contact with a surviving tribal member and possibly find out a few things about the culture. Each tribe has such a beautiful culture to contribute it would be sad to have it lost forever!

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:14 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: :wah: OK!

That is too bad nvalleyvee. Have you done any extensive research? Maybe you can get in contact with a surviving tribal member and possibly find out a few things about the culture. Each tribe has such a beautiful culture to contribute it would be sad to have it lost forever!

They never said what tribe she was from and I have no idea what tribes to look at in that area. Do have any suggestions of where I can look?

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:17 pm

When you did your research, where did you find out about the NA link? Have you tried Ancestry.com?

Maybe you could start with Virginias Historical society to see what tribes existed in that area during 1732.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:18 pm

nvalleyvee wrote: OH Geez - you made me pick white as the worst race

Not me

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:20 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: When you did your research, where did you find out about the NA link? Have you tried Ancestry.com?

Maybe you could start with Virginias Historical society to see what tribes existed in that area during 1732.

I am on Ancestry - thanks.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:29 pm

Nomad wrote: Im 30 min west of Minneapolis on Lake Minnetonka

Small world. My family was in the Windom area in the 1850's.

I am told my GGG grandmother was an minnetonka indian from that area.

You know those savage white men out on the frontier.....

You decide.

Attached files

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:53 am

That is your GGG grandmother? I can't tell her race by looking at her but I love old photos like that. Thanks for sharing! And Thanks for the link on the Minnetonka Natives as well!

I'm just a temporary transplant here in Minnesota. Once my bf is through with school we will go home (home is Wyoming)!

Bridget · Post by **Bridget** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:13 pm

My husband is 1/32nd Cherokee from Okla. I wish I knew how to post pictures on here and I would post a picture of his deceased grandmother. They lived on a reservation in Okla. and lived very poorly. Of course this was after they discovered oil in Okla. and the government took it away from them. You know I find the discussion about indians not tolerating acholol very imformative.. My husband can not drink more than two beers and he becomes beligerant and ughly. I never dreamed it was from his genes.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:36 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: Actually, Im very aware how much money they make. But I'd bet you DON'T have a clue. I also know how much they donate! Do you? I also know how much they contribute to cities for reconstructing roads and buildings... do you?

But it doesn't surprise me that you'd bring up the Casinos... now at least we all know what got you HEATED in the first place!

Thanx for makin my point rainbo.

They are not poor and despondent as y'all would like to make them.

They live their lives how they want and money is not on the top of the list for many.

They value nature, life, family tradition and try to keep the white mans influence away from them.

As far as the money you mentioned, you need to speak with the tribal leaders as to why the biggest part of the oil and casino monies are not distributed fairly.

But the crux of this tread is the lack of accountability on and off the reservation, not casino monies. I feel if you drive a car in ANY part of the US and you get a DWI it should go to ALL authorities..........

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:00 pm

Far Rider wrote: Here is my original statement.

Jives IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m with you on this one, take ethnicity out of the equation, we should all be accountable to each other, in a free peaceable society, to not let our personal rights, in this case to drink alcohol, infringe on the safety or peace of another.

Your request is reasonable. Regardless of history.

Heres my think on it for a night statement:

Sovereignty first. . Question is can they protect and defend their sovereignty? If they can then they remain sovereign, if not then they are conquered. . ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s America folks. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s reality proven by history time and time again in many other nations as well.

We canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t go back, and give them anything that will make up for what was taken. Do they have a right as a people to be angry, depressed, and despondent, drink and abuse drugs or whatever? Yep. I think so. Do they have the right to endanger the lives of others? No.

There is no answer for this problem. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a multi generation conflict that will be a part of our history. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s part of our shameful history.

The answer then becomes situational ethics. On the reservation they are self managed, off the reservation they are subject to the Laws of the US.

Thats saying a lot of nothin.

Situational Ethics - I do not believe I've ever heard it put so well. I refuse to feel guilty all my life. I DO feel badly thatt he white people had the power to overtake the NA's. UMM ERR - that's history in the making. Guns - vs- arrows go figure - it IS the way of the world.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:04 pm

I don't feel guilty for the past. I wasn't there. I've been told time and time again by my step-mother and several other native people that I shouldn't feel guilty about it either. The past cannot be fixed but the present can!

They are not poor and despondent as y'all would like to make them.

WRONG! Not every Tribe in America has a casino. Nor does every Tribe in America get money from the casino. One of largest reservations and the poorest is Pine Ridge. Most of the people on PR have no running water or electricity. If that isn't poor, then I don't know what is.

The majority of tribal casinos are not successful as most people would like to think!

And... one reason the Mdewakanton Sioux Community restricts membership is because they will only share the wealth with people who have been contributing to their tribe since before the casinos existed. Which makes sense!

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:48 am

BTS wrote: Small world. My family was in the Windom area in the 1850's.

I am told my GGG grandmother was an minnetonka indian from that area.

You know those savage white men out on the frontier.....

You decide.

She looks bloodthirsty to me !

No not really but I wouldnt double cross her.

We had no regard for the Native people. They were different and they stood in the way of our purpose, so we eliminated entire civilizations to further our cause.

But that was before "How to Win Friends & Influence People" hit the bookshelves........

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:38 am

But that was before "How to Win Friends & Influence People" hit the bookshelves........ :wah:

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:51 am

Nomad wrote:

We had no regard for the Native people. They were different and they stood in the way of our purpose, so we eliminated entire civilizations to further our cause
I just have to jump in here. Who is "we"? I wasn't alive during that time so you can't mean me. My father wasn't alive then, so you can't mean him. Who is "we"?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:01 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: First of all, natives don't have a LOVE of alcohol.

Sure they do, Rainbow. I should know, all of my friends are Native Americans. Including my best friend of 34 years. They love it. They're not depressed, my friend is a machinist and makes more money than I do, he's a happy married guy...and he loves alcohol. So do my other Native American friends. I call it like I see it.

Many of them have chosen to pick up the bottle because of a desperate need to drown out their sorrows. A good share of native americans suffer from depression. Not only do they face descrimination (still today) they are also looked upon, in many areas, as second class citizens because of their financial status in society.

That's a cop out. Many Asian Americans have the same difficulties, but they don't turn to alcohol at nearly the rate natives do.

The only difference for a native picking up a bottle as opposed to a "white man" is that they are more susceptible to its effects. They are genetically predisposed to an addiction.

Didn't I just say that? Thanks for agreeing with me.

Also, making the snide remark about having "pity" for their past is also disrespectful and uncalled for. You could have clearly made your point without it!

Wrong. In a debate you expect opposition tactics and prepare for them. I expected someone like you to say, "They are just depressed because of their past and problems." and sure enough, you did! I'm still not going for it, though.

You want to ignore the past but the present issue has everything to do with the past!

Not ignore the past, just cut down a tree, build a bridge, and get over it.

Stagnating and moping is not the nswer for the Native Americans in the United States. The Asian Americans who came here from places like Vietnam are great examples. They are actively educating themselves and advancing their cultures. They are pulling themselves up in society and flexing political muscle.

Native Americans, on the other hand, seem to be their own worst enemies. Corruption and decay are the rule on the reservation. The very rules of soveriegnity I mentioned strangle business and serve to keep the natives poor and destitute.

The natives of this country were given sloppy pieces of land across America after the majority was taken away from them.

So? The Norweigans were horribly discriminated against in the early part of this century in this country. But you don't see me crying about it. Oh...and those sloppy pieces of land you refer to? They have some of the biggest oil, gas, and coal reserves in the country. Poor natives.

Why shouldn't they have their own laws and govern their own people?

Hmmm...How about because they are part of a country already? And if you'll read my first post, I'd be happy with that...IF THEY WERE DOING IT! But they let crime rampage on their land, turn a blind eye to whole families being wiped out by their citizens, and refuse to cooperate to make even their own people safer. As a government...they suck!:D

It is their right!

Do you realize what you just stood up for? You just said it's their right to not tell the state government that their people have previous DWI offenses. So Rainbow...how is that anyone's right? How does that help anyone?

You just said it's OK for them not to follow laws (like the interlock law I mentioned)that are designed to save little children and innocent mothers from bloody death at the hands of a DWI offender. Is that really what you want? You should be ashamed of yourself.

I personally feel they've earned it.

In what way have they earned the right to indiscriminately kill people? They you go again with that "pity" defense. Again...I'm not buying it. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has earned the right to drunk drive. You are being foolish, Rainbow.

Maybe the problem is the "white" liquor store owners setting up shop near the reservation just so they can make a buck! Why don't you work on getting rid of those

I did. I voted for the law that allows overserved Indians to sue the bar. What are you doing about the problem of your people?:wah:

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:57 pm

I've been staying out of this discussion, because as a Native with a very short fuse, AND an alcoholic, it's too touchy a subject. Wellllll...I can't stay quiet anymore.

Jives, you've hit the nail on the head with just about every statement that you've made. Just as I have no symapthy for the people in my area thinking they are "owed" a living, an education, a hand-out; Native Americans are not owed a damn thing today, either, and they HAVE done a down-right lousy job of being "self-governing."

A love of alcohol? Whoa...is that ever true. My family has alcoholics in it going back generations. I've seen a whole slew of my friends go through it as well. Stereotypical? Pshaw. It's true, from this Native's perspective.

No one does have the right to drink and drive and endanger others, no matter if they have the "We were here first" defense. It IS a cop-out and it's the single thing that makes me ashamed of my "own" people. Drinking is a choice, no matter what kind of blood you have running through your veins. The "depression" argument is a crock. If Natives are looked at as "second class citizens" maybe it's because, in many cases, they live like they are. There's too much opportunity in this country for that to wash. THAT dog won't hunt.

OK, that's enough bashing my own heritage for now...I need a drink. :yh_rotfl

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:29 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: OOOOH your too close! :wah:

I'm in West Bloomington.

I agree navalleyvee!

So you live in Bloomington...your a half hr away

and your from Wyoming ?

My absolute favorite place on Gods green earth

Took a trip to Jackson a couple yrs ago and I still get chills thinking about it

UNBELIEVABLY BEAUTIFUL !

The 1st thing I noticed was the night sky...theres no light pollution and Ive never seen so many stars in my life ! I was so humbled by the surroundings, the whole trip was one big WOW !

Cant wait to get back there !

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:36 pm

BabyRider wrote: I've been staying out of this discussion, because as a Native with a very short fuse, AND an alcoholic, it's too touchy a subject. Wellllll...I can't stay quiet anymore.

Jives, you've hit the nail on the head with just about every statement that you've made. Just as I have no symapthy for the people in my area thinking they are "owed" a living, an education, a hand-out; Native Americans are not owed a damn thing today, either, and they HAVE done a down-right lousy job of being "self-governing."

A love of alcohol? Whoa...is that ever true. My family has alcoholics in it going back generations. I've seen a whole slew of my friends go through it as well. Stereotypical? Pshaw. It's true, from this Native's perspective.

No one does have the right to drink and drive and endanger others, no matter if they have the "We were here first" defense. It IS a cop-out and it's the single thing that makes me ashamed of my "own" people. Drinking is a choice, no matter what kind of blood you have running through your veins. The "depression" argument is a crock. If Natives are looked at as "second class citizens" maybe it's because, in many cases, they live like they are. There's too much opportunity in this country for that to wash. THAT dog won't hunt.

OK, that's enough bashing my own heritage for now...I need a drink. :yh_rotfl

Hey BR, that drink better be a Pepsi!!! I was waiting for your input to this touchy subject. You are so down to earth, and not under any far out pretense. I applaud your position!!!:yh_clap

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:53 pm

A native disrespecting his own people!? Wow! I'm shocked - NOT! I'm disgusted is more like it. Go on with the hatred... that is what makes America so beautiful isn't it! :rolleyes: BTW/next time don't be so desperate for me to read your posts by sending me pm's, I never bother reading anything that comes from someone uninteresting and lacking their facts!

If Natives are looked at as "second class citizens" maybe it's because, in many cases, they live like they are. There's too much opportunity in this country for that to wash. THAT dog won't hunt. Your not disgusting... your so completely sad! BTW/my step-mother has a law degree and was a practicing attorney until 5 years ago when she decided to become a mother. And all of her siblings are college graduates! None of which drink a drop of alcohol! They also contribute to THEIR reservation financially, emotionally and physically (PINE RIDGE), I doubt you could probably say the same... but whatever!

So you live in Bloomington...your a half hr away

and your from Wyoming ?

My absolute favorite place on Gods green earth

Took a trip to Jackson a couple yrs ago and I still get chills thinking about it

UNBELIEVABLY BEAUTIFUL !

The 1st thing I noticed was the night sky...theres no light pollution and Ive never seen so many stars in my life ! I was so humbled by the surroundings, the whole trip was one big WOW !

Cant wait to get back there !

Oh no, NOT Jackson! :wah: My parents live 13 minutes from the base of the Grand Tetons! I grew up in Jackson except the first few years of life were in Montana! Thanks for the compliments on my state. I love Jackson and it is a very beautiful place. I recently made a trip up to Northern Minnesota on lake Superior and I was impressed. It is very beautiful there as well!

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:02 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: A native disrespecting his own people!? Wow! I'm shocked - NOT! I'm disgusted is more like it. Go on with the hatred... that is what makes America so beautiful isn't it! :rolleyes:

No,

just an American speakin her mind.

"that is what makes America so beautiful isn't it!" :rolleyes:

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:05 pm

IT isn't surprising that the majority of people see Natives as a nuisance. That is why they drink

Pat yourselves on the back!

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:26 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: IT isn't surprising that the majority of people see Natives as a nuisance. That is why they drink

Pat yourselves on the back!

Nice try....OH POOR U!!!....

Trying to paint us as haters of the red man, that is fine if you want to live in the past and feel you have been slighted........ so be it. BUT!!! Don't try the race card crap with me. Won't work.

I never owned slaves nor did I fight the red man. My GG grandfather did carry an arrow broken off in his shoulder to his grave though.

FYI:

I was raised with many of the TUBATULABAL INDIANS This group of Indian people traditionally lived in the Kern River Valley in the southern Sierra Nevada, extending from the sources of the North and South forks of the Kern River, near Mt. Whitney, to about 40 miles below the junction of the two river forks. They originally lived in three autonomous bands: the Pahkanapil, Palagewan, and Bankalachi, or Toloim. Although their language is a subgroup of the Uto-Aztecan language family, which is widespread throughout the state, the Tubatulabal language is very different from neighboring languages of this type. Their staple foods were acorns and pine nuts, along with the gathering of vegetables and the taking of game. In the early 19th century, there were around 1,000 Tubatulabal living in their traditional region. Today there are about 400 Tubatulabal people living in the Kern River Valley, with estimates of about 500 more living outside the area, including some on the Tule River Reservation.

They are some of my best friends still today I love them and respect their ways. They have tried to keep their traditions alive for their descendants.So if that is seing them as a nuisance as you say then I do not know what to say ........ for not one of them feels sorry for themselves. Some of the BEST cowpunchers, loggers, carpenters, truck drivers, doctors I have EVER sawed....... Enjoy your little PITTY POOL ..........

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:17 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: A native disrespecting his own people!? Wow! I'm shocked - NOT! I'm disgusted is more like it. Go on with the hatred... that is what makes America so beautiful isn't it! :rolleyes: BTW/next time don't be so desperate for me to read your posts by sending me pm's, I never bother reading anything that comes from someone uninteresting and lacking their facts!

Time out here, tough guy. I have never sent you a single PM about anything. Check your facts, and your attitude. This isn't about hatred, this is about realism. Try it sometime.

rainbowsmiles wrote: Your not disgusting... your so completely sad! BTW/my step-mother has a law degree and was a practicing attorney until 5 years ago when she decided to become a mother. And all of her siblings are college graduates! None of which drink a drop of alcohol! They also contribute to THEIR reservation financially, emotionally and physically (PINE RIDGE), I doubt you could probably say the same... but whatever!
You doubt what you like, you don't know the first thing about my involvement with anything. You're griping to ME about not dealing with someone unless they have the facts? Then let's keep this on a debate level and leave the personal sh!t out of it, since you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to ME. Thanks much. :yh_eyebro

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:51 am

Joining this thread late in the day, but oh well.

First of all, lets remember that if the PEOPLE already calling N. America home, hadnt in their wisdom, helped the 'white roundeyes', they would have ALL perished. The spanish had already established St. Augustine. Roanoke was the first English attempt. Then they established Jamestown after a hard war with the spanish back in Europe. The virginia company was comprised of folks who came to rape, pillage and steal all the gold they could find, so they could become rich and buy fancy estates back in England. What they found was some of the harshest climate they had ever experienced. No tools for growing crops, no tools for building shelters, and most important of all.....no seeds.

But the PEOPLE (which is how 'indians' describe themselves) took pity on them. The missing colony of roanoke was probably absorbed of its few remaining colonists by the croatan tribe. The jamestown colony only survived because of the intervention of Pocahontas. The exiled puritans of Plymouth had to kidnap and abuse Squanto before they got it right. But america wasnt the last people to be ripped off by the europeans. The greed which drove to the building of 'Empire' extended to India, Africa and everywhere in between. All the native peoples of these lands are still suffering to this day. The PEOPLE of N. America, at least still retain a small bit of their country. For lets not forget, IT WAS THEIR HOME BEFORE WHITES CALLED IT HOME! The People were never conquered. The whites had to make treaties. The seminole tribe of florida, (to whom i belong) NEVER made treaties with the U.S.

Second point, that as a native american, I have found that I cannot drink more than two drinks at a go. Otherwise I'm over a toilet bowl. So I just dont bother trying anymore. Working in the hospitals of Virginia, all the drunk casualties I ever saw were of other ethnicities. No drunk 'indians' have ever crossed my path.

I find this whole thread narrow, to say the least.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:32 am

I never owned slaves nor did I fight the red man.

Red man? Now your using derogatory words to describe people. How nice! :rolleyes: I was told not to bother with this thread when it first started and I can see why. Haters will always be haters no matter what. Its like talking to a wall when talking to bigots!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:00 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: Red man? Now your using derogatory words to describe people. How nice! :rolleyes: I was told not to bother with this thread when it first started and I can see why. Haters will always be haters no matter what. Its like talking to a wall when talking to bigots!
Against my better judgment, here I go.

I'm white trash. There's a little Cherokee way back in my bloodline - way back somewhere. Lots of other stuff too. None of it makes me look for insult.

Rainbow, take a deep breath. You are finding insult in a 3-letter adjective. If you look inward, you might agree that you would find insult in virtually any word BTS used. Individuals in your chosen sub-group succeeded; others failed. Any individual makes choices and chooses specific behaviors. Everyone has specific weaknesses and strengths; nevertheless, the behavior is chosen. Defend your brethren against specific attack (being packed away into reservations, for instance), but don't defend their poor choices (such as staying there or becoming alcoholics). Especially since your own life shows that it's not inevitable.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:22 am

you are sure well spoken for white trash! :-6 well said indeed!

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:58 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: Red man? Now your using derogatory words to describe people. How nice! :rolleyes: I was told not to bother with this thread when it first started and I can see why. Haters will always be haters no matter what. Its like talking to a wall when talking to bigots!
How is "red man" any more derogatory than "black man"?? It describes a skin color.

I'll say it again, even though I hate repeating myself: This is NOT about hate, this is about looking at something realistically. If you want to continue to make excuses for a race, you're not in it to solve any problems; and there are problems, whether you can see them or not. You keep throwing that "hate" word out there, and it just ain't so. I do not hate my own people, I hate some of the things they do. Your "experience", limited as it is, has shown you a small percentage, (and probably the exception) of Natives who don't have a problem. Those people that you know are very different from the ones I know. They have taken advantage of the opportunities available to them, not sat around, wallowing in their "misery" and turning to a bottle to "aleviate their depression". Have you ever seen a reservation? I have. Have you ever talked to some of the people who live on one? I have. Have you ever been to a ceremony of any kind? I have.

You said elsewhere

IT isn't surprising that the majority of people see Natives as a nuisance. That is why they drink
That is NOT why they drink. That's another cop-out. A cop-out YOU are handing them. Ever heard the term "enabler"?? People like you, who see the world through rose-colored glasses and make excuses for others with an addiction are, in my opinion, worse than the ones addicted. You want to excuse the behavior, instead of trying to fix the problem.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:21 am

They have taken advantage of the opportunities available to them, not sat around, wallowing in their "misery" and turning to a bottle to "aleviate their depression". Have you ever seen a reservation? I have. Have you ever talked to some of the people who live on one? I have. Have you ever been to a ceremony of any kind? I have.

Actually I have! If you want the details I am more than willing to give them to you. I've also seen the people, talked to the people, spent DAYS with the people on Pine Ridge (my bf and I also sponsor a family on Pine Ridge as do my step-mother, her siblings and my father.) They don't have the luxuries of many reservations. They don't have the top dollar casinos and the oil producing land! They have poverty staring them in the face everyday. They are discriminated against on a daily basis (which I've witnessed firsthand). I cringe for them when I watch how they are treated!

I also know that my step-mother, being an educated Lakota woman, does take offense to being called "red skin" and so do many other Native Americans (I have met numerous Natives including several members of the Mdewakanton band of Sioux who spend time travelling to Universities across our nation discussing racism and hate in America. These people work at giving back to their tribes and making sure the people can see a light beyond a tunnel. But they have no illusions as to what their people face. They don't enable the alcoholics and drug addicts of their tribe, they don't sit in judgement. They work hard to show them opportunities and to give them the means of overcoming their problems... Are you doing the same?

There is no excuse for someone becoming an alcoholic but there are reasons. And maybe instead of sitting back and looking at your people with "judging" eyes you should spend quality time with the people of your reservation (BTW/what is the reservation you are registered with and who are the people in your Tribal council?)

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:43 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: Actually I have! If you want the details I am more than willing to give them to you. I've also seen the people, talked to the people, spent DAYS with the people on Pine Ridge (my bf and I also sponsor a family on Pine Ridge as do my step-mother, her siblings and my father.) They don't have the luxuries of many reservations. They don't have the top dollar casinos and the oil producing land! They have poverty staring them in the face everyday. They are discriminated against on a daily basis (which I've witnessed firsthand). I cringe for them when I watch how they are treated!
And yet you still want to make excuses for them. Why is that?

rainbowsmiles wrote: I also know that my step-mother, being an educated Lakota woman, does take offense to being called "red skin" and so do many other Native Americans They work hard to show them opportunities and to give them the means of overcoming their problems... Are you doing the same?
I see nothing offensive in being referred to as "red". Some do, fine. You think it's offensive, don't use the term. It's a personal judgement call, not having any bearing on this conversation. I just find it ironic that YOU look at it as being derogatory. How much Native blood did you say you have in you?

What I do, in regards to helping is to quit drinking, for one. I support my native friends in fundraisers, charity dinners, etc. I never claimed to be registered to any specific reservation. My great-grandfather, who is 100% Blackfoot, was ashamed of his heritage and refused to register our family's name anywhere. He didn't realize back then the repercussions that this would have. I could have gone to college for free, but since I have no pedigree, I can't prove a thing. I'm sure you will take that as I am making the whole thing up, but frankly what you believe doesn't matter in the slightest to me. Your opinions have proven to be a tad "skewed".

I know where I come from, and I DON'T use it as a crutch to excuse behavior.

rainbowsmiles wrote: There is no excuse for someone becoming an alcoholic but there are reasons. And maybe instead of sitting back and looking at your people with "judging" eyes you should spend quality time with the people of your reservation (BTW/what is the reservation you are registered with and who are the people in your Tribal council?)
Yes, there are reasons. Do you actually know any of them? Have you spent any time at all studying the reasons for alcoholism? What you keep throwing out there are excuses. You feel pity for them, and that's not going to help in any way.

And yet again, for the last time: I don't judge. I look at the problem in a realistic way. You really should try it sometime.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:54 am

My great-grandfather, who is 100% Blackfoot, was ashamed of his heritage

This explains a lot on your part! No more needs to be said!

BTW/I knew you weren't registered with an rez long before you said it... I just had a point to make thats all

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:04 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: This explains a lot on your part! No more needs to be said!

You know what? I'm not going to bother attempting to explain anything else to your narrow little brain after this.

You want to take one line out of 50, use that as yet another excuse, fine, be my guest. Your tunnel vision is showing.

Just because my great grandfather was ashamed does NOT automatically predispose me for the same attitude. If I was ashamed, I would not have bothered to find out what little I could about my heritage. I have never, NEVER said here, or anywhere else that I am ashamed of my heritage. I am, in fact, quite proud of it. What I am not proud of is the rampant alcoholism, the "pity trip" attitude and the attitude that I see from so many saying "We deserve a handout". That's no different from black folks thinking they deserve a free ride because of slavery.

Let me say it again, for those of you who need things repeated to you:

I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE FACT THAT I AM NATIVE AMERICAN. But I can look at my people with an honest eye. That must scare some folks, being able to be honest.

Rainbow, you go ahead, have at it...keep making your OWN judgements and excuses. You'll be doing it without any more input from this redskin. There's just some people out there who won't see reason: "I've got all the info I need, don't confuse me with the FACTS."

One last time, just so we're clear: I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE FACT THAT I'M NATIVE AMERICAN!!!

Everybody got it?

BTW/I knew you weren't registered with an rez long before you said it... I just had a point to make thats all

Now you're psychic. I think no more needs to be said.

What, pray tell, would that point be? Because I'm not registered it means what, exactly? I'm less Native? I don't care? I'm not qualified to be involved in this discussion?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:56 am

rainbowsmiles wrote: This explains a lot on your part! No more needs to be said!

BTW/I knew you weren't registered with an rez long before you said it... I just had a point to make thats all

Wow. I guess my first impressions were wrong.

Rainbow, if you'll kindly look behind you you'll see my line you just crossed. You take a line out of context and make a conclusion, then you demonstrate your prejudice with the next sentence.

You're a bigot. I don't try to reason with bigots.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:05 pm

You must be one of those people who thinks out loud because none of what you just said made any sense to me what-so-ever! :wah: But that is ok. You can call me a bigot. It hardly phases me!

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:20 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: none of what you just said made any sense to me what-so-ever!
Well there's a shock.... :yh_eyerol

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:22 pm

BabyRider wrote: How much Native blood did you say you have in you?
???? :yh_wait

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:41 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: You can call me a bigot. It hardly phases me!

But red bigot would bother you?

Lord, forgive me fer sayin' whut I jus' done. an' be with the starvin' pygmies in Ethiopia.

You are the problem. You and those like you. You think the aboriginal Americans incapable of making it on their on, so you pity them. Save your pity for the weak!

The contempt you hold for your own blood permeates everything you have typed in this thread. You feel the burden of recovery is beyond them? If not, why make excuses for them? Why do you hold yourself to a higher standard than you do your own kin? You have bought into the same poisonous racist propaganda that has been holding darker-skinned Americans down for generations, and you spew it forth as if it were the truth. You shame the ancestry you claim.

Just a thought.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:04 pm

BabyRider wrote: Well there's a shock.... :yh_eyerol

:yh_rotfl :yh_worshp :yh_rotfl

---------------------

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:07 pm

Accountable wrote: But red bigot would bother you?

Lord, forgive me fer sayin' whut I jus' done. an' be with the starvin' pygmies in Ethiopia.

You are the problem. You and those like you. You think the aboriginal Americans incapable of making it on their on, so you pity them. Save your pity for the weak!

The contempt you hold for your own blood permeates everything you have typed in this thread. You feel the burden of recovery is beyond them? If not, why make excuses for them? Why do you hold yourself to a higher standard than you do your own kin? You have bought into the same poisonous racist propaganda that has been holding darker-skinned Americans down for generations, and you spew it forth as if it were the truth. You shame the ancestry you claim.

Just a thought.

ZING!!!

:yh_worshp

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:24 pm

You are the problem. You and those like you. You think the aboriginal Americans incapable of making it on their on, so you pity them. Save your pity for the weak!

The contempt you hold for your own blood permeates everything you have typed in this thread. You feel the burden of recovery is beyond them? If not, why make excuses for them? Why do you hold yourself to a higher standard than you do your own kin? You have bought into the same poisonous racist propaganda that has been holding darker-skinned Americans down for generations, and you spew it forth as if it were the truth. You shame the ancestry you claim.

Just a thought. :wah:

If that is how you rationalize your behavior and attitude towards people less fortunate and so be it. I would hate to rein on your parade. Just accept that your the reason so many people have lost their way in society. Your a contributer as so many people here like you are! If I am a bigot then let a REAL native american tell me so. I've discussed this issue with people who are proud of their heritage and are educated and not drunk and they have appreciated my point of view and have contributed to my view as well. So I laugh at your comments because you are clearly talking out of your ARSE because your MOUTH knows better! :wah:

Oh, as for babyrider... native blood? I have more an appreciation for people I'm not genetically linked to then yourself. And your excuse for not being registered with a tribe was pathetic to say the least! Try telling someone that doesn't know better. If you know your grandfather was 100% blackfoot (as you claim) then you are capable of tracing your lineage. If your interested I could give you the name of someone more than willing to help you out (but I'm sure your not)! The blackfoot tribe are from Wyoming (at least my education has told me so). I'm a Wyoming native and know quite a bit about the blackfoot tribe. Probably a hell of a lot more than you... And I could give you the name of few members of that tribe that would love to hash over with you who is the real bigot here!

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:41 pm

rainbowsmiles wrote: :wah:

Just accept that your the reason so many people have lost their way in society.
Pot...kettle...BLACK!!!

rainbowsmiles wrote: If I am a bigot then let a REAL native american tell me so.
You're a bigot.

rainbowsmiles · Post by **rainbowsmiles** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:44 pm

Completely uneducated and at a loss for words I see! :-2 What a shame!