Page 1 of 3
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:28 pm
by lady cop
what is your opinion?
Midnight execution looms for killer, 76
Last appeal rejected for California's oldest death row inmate
Monday, January 16, 2006; Posted: 11:41 p.m.
SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- The U.S. Supreme Court rejected an appeal Monday from a 76-year-old convicted killer who argued that he was too old and feeble to be executed.
The ruling cleared the way for Clarence Ray Allen -- legally blind, nearly deaf and in a wheelchair -- to be executed by injection early Tuesday for a triple murder he ordered from behind bars to silence witnesses to another killing.
Allen, whose birthday was Monday, stood to become the oldest person executed in California -- and the second-oldest put to death nationally -- since the Supreme Court allowed capital punishment to resume in 1976.
He raised two claims never before endorsed by the high court: that executing a frail old man would violate the U.S. Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment, and that the 23 years he spent on death row were unconstitutionally cruel as well.
The high court rejected all three of his requests for a stay of execution, about 10 hours before he was to be put to death.
On one of those orders, Justice Stephen Breyer filed a dissent, saying: "Petitioner is 76 years old, blind, suffers from diabetes and is confined to a wheelchair, and has been on death row for 23 years. I believe that in the circumstances he raises a significant question as to whether his execution would constitute cruel and unusual punishment. I would grant the application for stay."
The Supreme Court has never set an upper age limit for executions or created an exception for physical infirmity.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the California Supreme Court and a federal appeals court previously refused to spare Allen's life.
Allen went to prison for having his teenage son's 17-year-old girlfriend murdered for fear she would tell police about a grocery-store burglary. While behind bars, he tried to have witnesses in the case wiped out, prosecutors said. He was sentenced to death in 1982 for hiring a hit man who killed a witness and two bystanders.
Allen's heart stopped in September, but doctors revived him and returned him to San Quentin Prison's death row.
Before Allen, the oldest person executed in California since the reinstatement of the death penalty was a 62-year-old man put to death last January. He had spent 21 years on death row.
Last month in Mississippi, John B. Nixon, 77, became the oldest person executed in the United States since capital punishment resumed. He did not pursue an appeal based on his age.
Over the years, some justices on the Supreme Court have expressed interest in deciding whether a long stay on death row can be unconstitutionally cruel.
In 2002, Breyer said in the case of a Florida inmate who spent 27 years in prison: "It is fairly asked whether such punishment is both unusual and cruel."
Justice Clarence Thomas disagreed, writing that the inmate "could long ago have ended his anxieties and uncertainties by submitting to what the people of Florida have deemed him to deserve: execution."
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:29 pm
by lady cop
Clarence Ray Allen is scheduled to be executed shortly after midnight.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:59 pm
by daffodil52
his he dead yet
i wish we in england had the death,,,, penalty only for peverts
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:06 am
by BabyRider
The man committed the crime, he needs to pay the price for those crimes. There's no statute of limitations to bring charges, there shouldn't be one for doling out the appropriate punishment, either.
And what's with the goofy headband??!!
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:10 am
by StupidCowboyTricks
BabyRider wrote: The man committed the crime, he needs to pay the price for those crimes. There's no statute of limitations to bring charges, there shouldn't be one for doling out the appropriate punishment, either.
And what's with the goofy headband??!!
He is a Choctaw Indian.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:20 am
by BabyRider
StupidCowboyTricks wrote: He is a Choctaw Indian.
Well, that explains that. Thanks for clearing it up, SCT.

less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:41 am
by StupidCowboyTricks
California Executes Death Row Inmate, 76
By Henry Weinstein and Hector Becerra, Times Staff Writers
SAN QUENTIN -- California prison officials executed 76-year-old murderer Clarence Ray Allen at the state prison here early today after his final appeal was turned down by the U.S. Supreme Court.
His death by lethal injection was announced at 12:38 a.m. by Elaine Jennings of the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.
Allen was wheeled into the death chamber at 12:04 a.m. By 12:35 a.m., Jennings said, the three drugs used in the process had been administered, however a second dose of potassium chloride -- which stops the heart -- was required.
Allen, who turned 76 Monday, was by far the oldest of the 13 convicts executed in the state since California restored the death penalty in 1977 and the second oldest in the nation.
That status, however, may not endure. California has the nation's largest death row -- 646 inmates -- but executes a relatively small number. As a result, the ranks of the condemned grow steadily more elderly, and now include five older than 70, 34 in their 60s and 155 between 50 and 59.
Lawyers for Allen argued that his lengthy time on death row, age and ill health should have barred his execution; he recently had a heart attack, suffered from diabetes, was legally blind and used a wheelchair. But Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and a series of courts rejected those pleas over the last several days.
On Sunday night, Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals noted that Allen was already 50 years old and incarcerated at Folsom State Prison for another killing when he orchestrated the triple murder for which he was handed the death penalty in 1982. Evidence at that trial showed he had paid another inmate $25,000 to kill three potential witnesses against him.
"His age and experience only sharpened his ability to coldly calculate the execution of the crime," wrote Wardlaw, an appointee of President Clinton. "Nothing about his current ailments reduces his culpability."
The execution was the second in a month's time, which is rare for California. Last month, the state executed Stanley Tookie Williams, 51, the former leader of the Crips gang. Later this week, a Ventura County Superior Court judge is expected to set an execution date for 46-year-old Michael Morales stemming from a 1983 murder in San Joaquin County.
State officials also have said it is possible that execution dates could be scheduled later this year for two other longtime condemned inmates, Stevie Lamar Fields, 49, and Mitchell Sims, 45.
Allen's last significant court challenge failed Monday afternoon when the Supreme Court denied his request for a stay of execution. As it often does in death cases, the court acted without a written opinion.
Justice Stephen G. Breyer issued the only dissent, a brief statement noting Allen's age, ill health and the fact that he "has been on death row for 23 years."
"I believe that in the circumstances, he raises a significant question as to whether his execution would constitute 'cruel and unusual punishment,'." Breyer wrote.
Since California reinstated the death penalty, the inmates who have been executed have had an average stay on death row of nearly 16 years, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.
The cases take a long time for several reasons, but chief among them is that the state takes considerable care in reviewing death sentences. The state Supreme Court automatically reviews each capital case. Although the court upholds the overwhelming majority, it does not begin the process until an appellate lawyer has been found to represent the inmate. Finding lawyers able and willing to handle the cases has proved difficult, Chief Justice Ronald M. George has said.
Currently, more than 100 inmates have no lawyer for their appeal, and the waiting list to get an appellate lawyer is several years long, said UC Berkeley law professor Elisabeth Semel, who runs the school's death penalty clinic.
Allen's case did not draw as much media attention as that of Williams, who was executed in December after a massive campaign urging the governor to grant clemency.
Nonetheless, Death Penalty Focus, a San Francisco-based group that opposes capital punishment, held a 25-mile "Walk for Abolition" on Monday, starting at the Palace of the Legion of Honor, proceeding across the Golden Bridge and culminating at San Quentin. The group said there also would be a rally against the death penalty in Los Angeles and vigils outside the state Capitol and in several other cities around the state. Shortly before the scheduled execution, the number of protesters outside the prison grew to about 300.
Allen maintained his innocence, despite what Judge Wardlaw, in an earlier decision on the case, had called "overwhelming" evidence of his guilt. The case involved the murders of Bryon Schletewitz, 27; Douglas White, 18; and Josephine Rocha, 17. Prosecutors told a jury in Fresno that Allen had organized the murders and paid a fellow inmate, Billy Ray Hamilton, to carry them out.
At the time, Allen was in prison, convicted of the 1974 murder of Mary Sue Kitts. California did not have a death penalty statute at that time. Kitts, a girlfriend of Allen's son, Kenneth, was found strangled after telling the owners of a Fresno market that Allen's gang had burglarized their business. Schletewitz was the son of the store owners and had testified against Allen in the Kitts case.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:05 am
by Accountable
sixyearsleft wrote: Man will never take the next step, with statements such as this, you know they dont always get things right, oh but that doesn't matter does it, ppl who make statments like yours are ignorent and very misguided, do some research before being profane,
I'm really sorry for being direct but ppl who want to kill for whatever reason are murderes, even if its done by the state,
I respect direct.
The man's a murderer. Imprisonment did not stop him from murder. Do you have another recommendation for keeping him from murdering? Do you have a punishment for a murderer who is already in prison?
Oh, and what next step?
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:02 am
by robinseggs
Fry'm
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:13 am
by Accountable
sixyearsleft wrote: ppl seem to forget what the reason for prisons are, there purpose is to rebilitate,
for every man and woman there's a common story to be told, low incomes, and bad education, these are a reflection on our society and the way we live,
how many abused ppl tend to grow to abuse others, even the most evil murderer could also be a victim themself, what does it say about how we live
morality is bankrupt.
Rehabilitation didn't work in this case. He ordered murder from behind bars! As for the rest, at what point do people have to stop blaming their upbringing and background and start taking responsibility for their own actions? I say at the age of majority (18 in the US). What say you, Six?
sixyearsleft wrote: How can u and i understand what goes on inside an evil mind eg, Ted Bundy,
we must find ways of trying to understand the reasoning for it and learn how and why scociaty can produce monsters like these, they should be put to work to benifit society, Nobody has the right to take anybodys life,
This is a difficult subject on all levels, its easy to make ignorent statments, but we would do better to find solutions instead of playing god,
That's just it. We don't know what goes on inside their minds. We can only witness behavior. We can also stop behavior; in fact, we have that obligation to stop that kind of behavior to protect the citizenry.
Sure, let's study up and find why these personalities occur and try to prevent them in the future; but what of this one? This one is killing people, even when incarcerated. Forget about playing God, this animal is a danger to the public and must be put down, just as we would any feral beast.
Now, I would really be interested in a response to my earlier post. The 'next step' bit would probably make an interesting separate thread.

less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:10 am
by Accountable
sixyearsleft wrote: [...]
yes the next step,
I cant help slipping these comments in to my post's, its who i am in real time.
since joining the garden i've quickly realised this is not the place to talk of such things,
Yes, it's waaay outside the box. I can understand your sensitivity to people poking & prodding at something so obviously important to you. My apologies if I overstepped in that other thread then, btw. Maybe later, eh?
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:24 am
by Accountable
sixyearsleft wrote: hey Accountable, i do have a thick skin, and a clear sense of what somebody is implying, and you are only genuine,
:-2 So why not give us a shot?
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:51 am
by TenneseeGirl
I think that untill our current justice system finds a way to rehabilitate instead of making better criminals we need to execute more violent criminals.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:04 am
by Bez
BabyRider wrote: Well, that explains that. Thanks for clearing it up, SCT.
DON'T BE ashamed BR. :-4 There are good and bad in all societies. People have choices whatever their circumstances and up bringing.Many people who come from ghastly backgrounds 'come good'.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:20 am
by Lil~Basco
I can't understand why any State would choose to keep someone on death row for 23 years. Why should they have a chance at rehabilitation...the people they killed don't have a chance at anything.
I don't feel sorry for this man and for all the ailments he suffered from. The only thing I see that was cruel and unusual about his punishment is that he wasn't put to death sooner. He wouldn't have had to endure his old age ailments and taxpayers wouldn't have had the burden of wasting their tax dollars on keeping him alive, feeding and housing him.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:24 am
by lady cop
Bez wrote: DON'T BE ashamed BR. :-4 There are good and bad in all societies. People have choices whatever their circumstances and up bringing.Many people who come from ghastly backgrounds 'come good'.i am 99% certain BR was being sarcastic...it goes back to someone who made horrible comments about her heritage. she's actually proud of her antecedents , as well she should be!
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:30 am
by BabyRider
lady cop wrote: i am 99% certain BR was being sarcastic...it goes back to someone who made horrible comments about her heritage. she's actually proud of her antecedents!
*sigh* No one but you understands me, LC.
Thanks for saying so anyway Bez, but LC is right, I am being sarcastic. Now as to this particular comment:
ppl seem to forget what the reason for prisons are, there purpose is to rebilitate,
That simply isn't the case. Prisons are punitive, not rehabilitative. Very rarely does a person come out of prison after a long stint and think to themselves, "Well....I certainly have seen the light and don't want to make any more mistakes like THAT!" People do NOT learn, unfortunately.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm
by Slade1
daffodil52 wrote: his he dead yet
i wish we in england had the death,,,, penalty only for peverts
Sorry, I'm late to this one...what the hell?
You really hate peverts don't you? That's ok, but what about murderers that have no sexual motivation? What about an armed robber who kills an innocent shop assistant for example?
Are you an avid reader of the Daily Star? (Possibly the Mail actually). Here's an idea, THINK before you write...
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:37 pm
by daffodil52
while were on the subject of death by lethal injection,,,,,,
animal are,,,,experimented everyday monkey dogs cats rats hamster why
when we have loads off scum to do on ...ok people on death row.....
it could end all experiment on animal,,, after all thats what they RRRRRR////
ok daffy
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:43 pm
by daffodil52
Slade1 wrote: Sorry, I'm late to this one...what the hell?
You really hate peverts don't you? That's ok, but what about murderers that have no sexual motivation? What about an armed robber who kills an innocent shop assistant for example?
Are you an avid reader of the Daily Star? (Possibly the Mail actually). Here's an idea, THINK before you write...
hi
mmmmmmmm i do not read rubbish... in papers!!!! waste of money boy
heres a idea 4 u! mind er " goB...... all PAEDOPHILE SHOULD BE PUT DOWN OOPS AR MEAN **** HEAD "2
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:49 pm
by Jives
lady cop wrote: "could long ago have ended his anxieties and uncertainties by submitting to what the people of Florida have deemed him to deserve: execution."
Absolutely right! He doesn't want to die inconveniently? Tough, neither did his victims. If he doesn't like death row...then to Hell with him, literally! and the quicker the better!

less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:58 pm
by opinionated
Clarence Ray Allen got a humane and dignified death, more so than thousands of sick and dying people in hospitals and hopsices worldwide. He was sick, helpless and dying. And while I do not condone killing sick, aging or dying people, he was afterall a convicted murderer...are we going to forget his crime and the impact of that crime on the victims family just because he is now old and incapacitated? I do not support the death penalty, but since we do have laws in this country and since his sentence was death, it must be carried out. The real question of humanity in the death sentence argument should be why was he on death row for 25 years. That is not humane or just in my opinion.
I would love to hear from others regarding this topic.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:14 pm
by Slade1
daffodil52 wrote: hi
mmmmmmmm i do not read rubbish... in papers!!!! waste of money boy
heres a idea 4 u! mind er " goB...... all PAEDOPHILE SHOULD BE PUT DOWN OOPS AR MEAN **** HEAD "2
Ok, glad we got that straightened out...
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:16 pm
by daffodil52
sixyearsleft wrote: Do you not get it????????
Who of you has the right to kill another human being????????
And tell me why you think you have the right, forget about everything else,
forget about what any individual as done, tell me why you think any human being as the right to kill another human being.
What about all the ppl wrongly convicted, and sent to there deaths only to discover they were inocent, what about them???????
How can anyone be this way, i cant understand it, hi
And if they , killed someone in yourfamily ,,, i think its .4....fillin , its our daft laws,,,in uk.......
Now here in soft johnny england...... need i say any more....
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:16 pm
by lady cop
hi sixyearsleft,........ it is true death penalty discussions engender a lot of passions, we've had several similar threads on the the subject. but to answer your question, the police have a right/license to kill in the defense of innocent citizens. or themselves. however i know that is not what you were referring to. i am glad that with the advent of excellent DNA technology/evidence, and a very long appeals process, the likelihood of executing the innocent is remote. i believe in the innocence project and in being 100% certain before the awesome power of the state is invoked. but i have personally known many murderers and believe in the penalty.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:18 pm
by Jives
opinionated wrote: The real question of humanity in the death sentence argument should be why was he on death row for 25 years..
I agree. Firing squad at dawn, the day after the appeal would suit me.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:19 pm
by Jives
sixyearsleft wrote: Who of you has the right to kill another human being?,
That's pretty naive of you, Six. You mean to say that if I am holding a gun to the head of the person you love most in this world, and the only way to save them is to kill me, you wouldn't do it?:-2
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:23 pm
by Slade1
daffodil52 wrote: hi
And if they , killed someone in yourfamily ,,, i think its .4....fillin , its our daft laws,,,in uk.......
Now here in soft johnny england...... need i say any more....
Yes you do.
My problem with the death penalty, apart from the obvious risk of executing the wrong person, has always been the clinical and sterile way in which it's done, I mean, making someone lie on a bed and injecting them with various toxins, one of which paralyses them while it happens, it just disturbs me, I'm not easy with that concept. If someone killed a member of my family I would want to kill them myself I think.
Execution would just leave me with a hollow feeling.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:27 pm
by daffodil52
Slade1 wrote: Ok, glad we got that straightened out... me 2
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:27 pm
by Jives
Slade1 wrote: If someone killed a member of my family I would want to kill them myself I think. Execution would just leave me with a hollow feeling.
I'm agreeing with you there, Slade, it would bring a little bit of closure I'd say.
How about this, let one family member be on the firing squad. As per normal procedure, one gun at random would have blanks. Closure and a chance at redemption at the same time!:D
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:30 pm
by Lil~Basco
Jives wrote: I'm agreeing with you there, Slade, it would bring a little bit of closure I'd say.
How about this, let one family member be on the firing squad. As per normal procedure, one gun at random would have blanks. Closure and a chance at redemption at the same time!:D
Jives the Wise is smokin' tonight!

less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:34 pm
by daffodil52
Slade1 wrote: Yes you do.
My problem with the death penalty, apart from the obvious risk of executing the wrong person, has always been the clinical and sterile way in which it's done, I mean, making someone lie on a bed and injecting them with various toxins, one of which paralyses them while it happens, it just disturbs me, I'm not easy with that concept. If someone killed a member of my family I would want to kill them myself I think.
Execution would just leave me with a hollow feeling. pull the other leg its got bells on it.....
our laws are lets say daft..........after twenty years er out...... here to kill again
we do have DNA,,,,,,chances 2 million 2 one..... we fattern them up in jail.....
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:35 pm
by Slade1
Jives wrote: I'm agreeing with you there, Slade, it would bring a little bit of closure I'd say.
How about this, let one family member be on the firing squad. As per normal procedure, one gun at random would have blanks. Closure and a chance at redemption at the same time!:D
Interesting concept definitely. I'm trying my best to put myself in the position of the bereaved family member(a position I hope I never find myself in) and I really don't think that I would hesitate to put the person responsible down, that said I am thinking theoretically so I can't say for sure. I just don't think I would get any satisfaction out of the state executing them.
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:37 pm
by Slade1
daffodil52 wrote: pull the other leg its got bells on it.....
our laws are lets say daft..........after twenty years er out...... here to kill again
we do have DNA,,,,,,chances 2 million 2 one..... we fattern them up in jail.....
Hey, maybe we could feed them to the homeless afterwards then, kill two birds with one stone as it were. What do you think?
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:46 pm
by daffodil52
Slade1 wrote: Hey, maybe we could feed them to the homeless afterwards then, kill two birds with one stone as it were. What do you think?
AS I said ,,,,, lets experiment on them
use them as u would a lab rat,,,,,,, or monkey or dog
give them aids or some nasty .... disease..... why use animals
theirs load of them in jails in the uk...... murders" rapist" ped" philes "lol daffy
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:57 pm
by Slade1
daffodil52 wrote: AS I said ,,,,, lets experiment on them
use them as u would a lab rat,,,,,,, or monkey or dog
give them aids or some nasty .... disease..... why use animals
theirs load of them in jails in the uk...... murders" rapist" ped" philes "lol daffy
Yeah... We could use them to grow body parts on, like that mouse that had an ear grown on it's back. Just imagine how many ears you could fit on a paedophile!
Mind you, there are risks involved, he would be able to hear small children approaching from many miles away. Pros and cons mate, pros and cons!
less than 3 hours to live
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:05 pm
by daffodil52
Slade1 wrote: Yeah... We could use them to grow body parts on, like that mouse that had an ear grown on it's back. Just imagine how many ears you could fit on a paedophile!
Mind you, there are risks involved, he would be able to hear small children approaching from many miles away. Pros and cons mate, pros and cons!
thear u go ... u get my drifted.... excellent.....lol daffy " Mate
better by far,,,,,,