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sagecw wrote: hi .. my name is Cindy, I am desperately trying to get some help for our daughter if you go to HELP JESSICA it will explain everything..and you can see how the *government* is treating children..this is legit not a scam.....thank you for your time



cindy
stop blaming the US government for problems that are not its responsibility. from your web page:



Almost 4 years-ago Russell was deported from the US for overstaying his visa. Under normal circumstances Russell would accept responsibly for his actions. However, are not normal set of circumstances.

normal or not, russell must *accept responsibility for his actions*. he is the proximate cause of your predicament, not the US government. why aren't you railing against the australian government for their denial of residency? they showed no more concern for your predicament than our goverment, but our government is the one you're chastising?



why don't all of you move to a different country? you could try canada. or england. or france. those are all way better countries than the US. if your goal is re-uniting your family, find a country that you believe is better than ours, and move there.



sorry, but my sympathy does not go out to you. if you were asking for help, without implying the US government sucks (very fashionable these days) (but apparently the australian government does not suck), then i'd have some sympathy.

sagecw wrote: hi .. my name is Cindy, I am desperately trying to get some help for our daughter if you go to HELP JESSICA it will explain everything..and you can see how the *government* is treating children..this is legit not a scam.....thank you for your time

cindy


I have visited Help Jessica Webpage. I have sent an appeal message to the Congressman. I pray to God that He grants wisdon to concerned authorities to allow Jessica's dad to be near her. She needs him and God willing she will have him shortly.

anastrophe wrote: stop blaming the US government for problems that are not its responsibility. from your web page:

Almost 4 years-ago Russell was deported from the US for overstaying his visa. Under normal circumstances Russell would accept responsibly for his actions. However, are not normal set of circumstances.

normal or not, russell must *accept responsibility for his actions*. he is the proximate cause of your predicament, not the US government. why aren't you railing against the australian government for their denial of residency? they showed no more concern for your predicament than our goverment, but our government is the one you're chastising?

why don't all of you move to a different country? you could try canada. or england. or france. those are all way better countries than the US. if your goal is re-uniting your family, find a country that you believe is better than ours, and move there.

sorry, but my sympathy does not go out to you. if you were asking for help, without implying the US government sucks (very fashionable these days) (but apparently the australian government does not suck), then i'd have some sympathy.


Why do you have such a negative mindset?

anastrophe wrote: stop blaming the US government for problems that are not its responsibility. from your web page:



Almost 4 years-ago Russell was deported from the US for overstaying his visa. Under normal circumstances Russell would accept responsibly for his actions. However, are not normal set of circumstances.

normal or not, russell must *accept responsibility for his actions*. he is the proximate cause of your predicament, not the US government. why aren't you railing against the australian government for their denial of residency? they showed no more concern for your predicament than our goverment, but our government is the one you're chastising?



why don't all of you move to a different country? you could try canada. or england. or france. those are all way better countries than the US. if your goal is re-uniting your family, find a country that you believe is better than ours, and move there.



sorry, but my sympathy does not go out to you. if you were asking for help, without implying the US government sucks (very fashionable these days) (but apparently the australian government does not suck), then i'd have some sympathy.


My guess would be it's called frustration. Yes, her husband should have not overstayed his visa. BUT who is paying the price for it? Cindy and their daughter. Then, when you do realize you made a huge mistake and try and try to right that mistake, you can't. As a parent, wanting to get your child help, I can understand the frustration she must be feeling.

Suresh Gupta wrote: Why do you have such a negative mindset?
why do you need to use giant letters to express your opinion? is this sort of like 'shouting' in text?



i'm very sorry for what has happened to them, but again, i am extremely frustrated with the extremely fashionable bashing of the united states, to the exclusion of anything else.



australian should be damned and cursed for their refusal to accept this family. but there is not a single word of such on that webpage. so, the australians were heartless and cruel, but it is completely ignored. the US is heartless and cruel, and it is shouted from the rooftops.



suresh, how would you feel if every time i mentioned india, i mentioned young brides being set afire by their disgusting, greedy, inhuman husbands, because their family didn't provide a good enough dowry? are all men in india like that? are you?



how would that feel to you? that's what things like this feel like to me. australia kicks them out - not a peep of dissent. the US won't let them in - THOSE DEVIL BASTARDS THE AMERICANS.



i'm sick to death of it.

sagecw wrote: You are right...*frustration* is the right word....Russell made a HUGE mistake...we know this....*Jessica* is the point now and what she is going through is killing both of us...we are trying to do anything and everything to fix the wrong that was done...even HARDEN criminals get second changes...we are trying to save our daughter....hope people can understand that we are not excusing what Russell did nor making light of it...trying to fix it and save our daughter..



cindy
i ask in seriousness, would it be possible for you, your daughter, and russell to move to a third country? have you investigated this? if the ultimate goal is to be re-united, then that shoudl be an option you consider.

anastrophe wrote: i'm very sorry for what has happened to them, but again, i am extremely frustrated with the extremely fashionable bashing of the united states, to the exclusion of anything else.


for example, from the webpage in question, please compare and contrast:



first:

Jessica and I moved to Australia with Russell (in December of 2000). We fully intended to live the remainder of our lives there. Jessica and I applied for residency in Australia, but in November of 2003 our residency application was denied. The denial was based on medical grounds: Jessica would cost the Australian government to much money because of her condition. We were told we had to leave Australia.

then later:

I can not believe our government couldn't care less about "our" mentally ill children. All I hear anymore from our politicians is "families first" or "children first" but yet not one of them wants to help our mentally ill child or help our family. What is wrong with our government? With all the people that are here illegally and they let them stay and burden our health and welfare systems.

why is there no outrage of any sort expressed about what australia did?

Now I see your point anastrophe. It's an extremely good and valid point.

sagecw wrote: anastrophe,

This is Russell Im using Cindys name because I dont have my own. Lets ponder for a second all that you have said.



Sure it MIGHT be possible for us to move to a third country but is that fair on Cindy or Jessica? They are after all American Citizens entitled to the exact same rights you and the other however many millions of citizens the US has. Given Jessicas medical condition we do know for a fact that not too many countries will accept her and those that would except her still persecute women. So I ask you again should they be exposed to the kind of life where they cant walk in public without covering their faces. Is this not what both our countries are fighting for? TO stop terrorism and restore some resemblance of what could be considered a "normal" life?i'm not suggesting a third world country, i wrote "third country", meaning a country other than the united states or australia, because neither seem to be working out for you. canada, the UK, new zealand - all three are principally english speaking countries that might be agreeable.



it is an option. if the US won't allow you in, if australia boots out your wife and child, then it is an option. would you not agree?





You preach on why I shouldnt be allowed to return but what about the most important two reasons why I should? Is it fair to penalize a child for the actions of a parent?i have never once suggested that you should not be allowed to return here. i'm all in favor of you returning here. you would be welcome here if it were up to me. but it's not up to me. the government has its rules, right or wrong, fair or unfair, just or unjust. ultimately however, the reason you are not being allowed to return appears to be - according to the description on the webpage - because you overstayed your visa.



did you do so intentionally, or accidentally? if accidentally, how did you forget something so important? if intentionally, what was your justification?



my problem is with the US being slagged because we're so cold hearted as to not let you back. but the webpage about this issue takes no umbrage, shows no outrage, at what australia did, which is arguably far worse, far more cold hearted, than what's happening now.





We are not asking for handouts I dont want nothing I havent earnt We are purely wanting what you appear to take for granted ... to have a family unit instead of the mere excistance we have today. that's fine with me. but it's not up to me. the choices weren't mine, the actions weren't mine, the consequences weren't mine. i sympathize with your situation, even if it doesn't sound like it from my posts.





So seriously I say to you would you sublect your family to such a fate as living in a third world country? I doubt it somehow. Bag me all you like Im a big boy with big sholders but the person you are condemning is an innocent 15 yr old mentally retarded girl.per above, i didn't mean third-world country, i simply meant some other country. again, if the ultimate goal is to reunite your family, and if australia won't take your wife and daughter, and the US won't take you, then another country may be the best option - even if only temporarily. i don't really know international law well enough to say that this would be any sort of option at all. for all i know, you could fly into mexico and sneak across the border. the chance of getting caught is apparently pretty low. that's another option, although there are even greater risks involved, obviously.





As for Australia and my Governments involvement I agree their decision was totally unacceptable and cold hearted. Sure we could have fought it but our lawyer advised that any fight would take years and cost more money than I make and while its not about money I do beleive that to be subjected to a lower form a life is unacceptable toohow long would it take to fight australia? how long is it anticipated it might take to fight the US?

anastrophe wrote: why do you need to use giant letters to express your opinion? is this sort of like 'shouting' in text?


It was a mistake. I wanted to select a different font size but it certainly was not intended to be a giant size. I am sorry if it has caused any hurt to to you. It is certainly not 'shouting' in text.



I'm very sorry for what has happened to them, but again, i am extremely frustrated with the extremely fashionable bashing of the united states, to the exclusion of anything else.


Please belive me I am not here on FG to indulge in what you call 'extremely fashionable bashing of the united states'. I am here to learn the views of others and share my views with them. Calling others names or hurting others is not in my nature. If any of my posts have caused any hurt to you or any other FG member I am extremely sorry for that.

australian should be damned and cursed for their refusal to accept this family. but there is not a single word of such on that webpage. so, the australians were heartless and cruel, but it is completely ignored. the US is heartless and cruel, and it is shouted from the rooftops.


You are right it is not correct to single out USA for the problem and leave Australia out. I can understand your hurt when for every problem in the world USA is singled out for crticism. But you see the more powerful one becomes the more powerful criticism it generates. People are basically selfish. They will praise you when they need your help, but crticise you when their work is done. The world has become like that.

suresh, how would you feel if every time i mentioned india, i mentioned young brides being set afire by their disgusting, greedy, inhuman husbands, because their family didn't provide a good enough dowry? are all men in india like that? are you?

how would that feel to you? that's what things like this feel like to me. australia kicks them out - not a peep of dissent. the US won't let them in - THOSE DEVIL BASTARDS THE AMERICANS. i'm sick to death of it.


We Indians have always been looked upon as uncivilized. We are condemned for bride burning, girl-child abortion and what not. But we take all this criticism with a positive attitude. We recognize the problem. We try to solve it. India has made laws to prevent such inhuman acts. Things are changing. Number of such killings are reducing. We feel that the strength of any society is in acknowledging the problem and taking necessary corrective actions.

But I certainly agree with you when you say that you have become sick to death by all this criticism of Americans. But such criticism can be used as a change-agent to introduce corrections wherever required. I send you my love.

Suresh Gupta wrote: We Indians have always been looked upon as uncivilized. We are condemned for bride burning, girl-child abortion and what not. But we take all this criticism with a positive attitude. We recognize the problem. We try to solve it. India has made laws to prevent such inhuman acts. Things are changing. Number of such killings are reducing. We feel that the strength of any society is in acknowledging the problem and taking necessary corrective actions.



But I certainly agree with you when you say that you have become sick to death by all this criticism of Americans. But such criticism can be used as a change-agent to introduce corrections wherever required. I send you my love.
a quick note before i respond: you aren't using the 'QUOTE' function correctly. for each section you wish to be quoted, it needs to have 'QUOTE' at the start, and '/QUOTE' at the end (i can't put in the brackets lest the text editor actually interpet those as real quote declarations!).



you might want to click the 'edit' button on your post and go back and correct the quoting, because currently it's very difficult to read.

Suresh Gupta wrote: We Indians have always been looked upon as uncivilized. We are condemned for bride burning, girl-child abortion and what not. But we take all this criticism with a positive attitude. We recognize the problem. We try to solve it. India has made laws to prevent such inhuman acts. Things are changing. Number of such killings are reducing. We feel that the strength of any society is in acknowledging the problem and taking necessary corrective actions.



But I certainly agree with you when you say that you have become sick to death by all this criticism of Americans. But such criticism can be used as a change-agent to introduce corrections wherever required. I send you my love.
thanks, Suresh.



i would like to note, as an aside, that i do not personally look down upon india, or indians, at all. quite the contrary, i've always admired and respected many, many aspects of indian culture and civilization. the hindu faith is quite beautiful. i've studied the upanishads. the history of india has by and large been one of a great, peaceful giant. yes, there of course have been conflicts and riots and fighting and wars at various times in history, but i believe the hindu faith deeply informs indians, and encourages peaceful relations and understanding. need i even mention the great mohandas karamchan gandhi!



Churchill is one of my great, great heroes, but even heroes are fallible -

It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr. Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the East, striding half-naked up the steps of the viceregal palace...to parley on equal terms with the representatives of the king-emperor.

almost enough to make you laugh out loud!

anastrophe wrote: thanks, Suresh.

i would like to note, as an aside, that i do not personally look down upon india, or indians, at all. quite the contrary, i've always admired and respected many, many aspects of indian culture and civilization. the hindu faith is quite beautiful. i've studied the upanishads. the history of india has by and large been one of a great, peaceful giant. yes, there of course have been conflicts and riots and fighting and wars at various times in history, but i believe the hindu faith deeply informs indians, and encourages peaceful relations and understanding. need i even mention the great mohandas karamchan gandhi!

Churchill is one of my great, great heroes, but even heroes are fallible -

It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr. Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the East, striding half-naked up the steps of the viceregal palace...to parley on equal terms with the representatives of the king-emperor.

almost enough to make you laugh out loud!






I am happy that we understand each other. Now we will be in a better position to appreciate each others' view points. You are a very senior member on the forum. I look forward to learn many things from you.



As I have explained in some of my posts, the strength of Indian society is in its capability to recognise its weeknesses and address them for introducing required corrections. This flexible attituide has been responsible that India even after so many attacks is still a very strong democracy. Muslims attacked India and Indians have absorbed them in their society. Britishers attacked India and Indians still love them. These things are not easily understood by the people and they make comments as Churchill made about Mahatma Gandhi.

anastrophe wrote: a quick note before i respond: you aren't using the 'QUOTE' function correctly. for each section you wish to be quoted, it needs to have 'QUOTE' at the start, and '/QUOTE' at the end (i can't put in the brackets lest the text editor actually interpet those as real quote declarations!).



you might want to click the 'edit' button on your post and go back and correct the quoting, because currently it's very difficult to read.


Thanks for advice. I have made corrections in my post. What do you say, a good student!

sagecw, what is the latest? Has there been any progress on your request?