Just go and kill yourself, there's a good boy.

[golem]

So the terrorists elected by the ‘palestinians’ to be their representatives in the PA have launched a web site for kids promoting the desirability to become a homicide bomber using as a means of getting through to their emerging minds kids cartoons and kids stories. :-1

The hamas ‘al’fateh.net’ promotes the wonder and joy of ‘martyrdom’ and makes out that the homicide bombers attacking Israelis is a thing to be rejoiced about and much to be desired. :-1

Maybe it’s just me but the idea of anyone telling their kids that they will go to paradise and then using them as consumables in an unnecessary war of hate against modernity is simply evil.

To quote from Arutz Sheva (Israelnationalnews.com)

”One of the stories on the site quotes a mother saying that when she heard her son had become a shahid, a martyr, she bought dates, candies and coffee to give out. An entire section of the site is called "Stories of the Shahids," and the most recently posted story honors Hamas terrorist Naseem Ja'abari, who murdered 16 people when he blew himself up on a bus in Be'er Sheva on August 31, 2004.

The page is egalitarian in its encouragement of martyrdom, with a prominently featured drawing of a religiously garbed girl participating in violent attacks on both the homepage and on a second page. The drawing is accompanied by a poem glorifying Jihad, Islamic conquest, and Shahada.

No matter what the cause, no matter how just you might have been led to believe it is, there’s a simple fact of basic humanity.

You don’t use your kids as bombs. :-1

.

[OpenMind]

This is very irresponsible. This just goes to show the type of people they are. I'd suggest that they set their own example if it wouldn't kill innocent people in the process.

[Wolverine]

I LOVE living in Iowa!!!!!!

[chonsigirl]

That is really sad.:-1

[Wolverine]

chonsigirl wrote: That is really sad.:-1
why? you got something against Iowa??:-2

[chonsigirl]

Not that! There is nothing wrong with Iowa! I meant the suicide bombers as kids...............

[Jives]

golem wrote:

No matter what the cause, no matter how just you might have been led to believe it is, there’s a simple fact of basic humanity.

You don’t use your kids as bombs.


You statement is close to one of my sayings, golem.

No matter what your cause was, no matter how justified you think you are, if you kill innocent people...you no longer deserve to win.

Obviously, evil knows no bounds.

This is more proof to me that Islam is evil.

[Wolverine]

chonsigirl wrote: Not that! There is nothing wrong with Iowa! I meant the suicide bombers as kids...............
Oh... ok then. i went a little bonkers on the Scooby snacks over lunch. so my mind is working faster than it has in a LONG time. the hampster fell off the wheel and the spiders took over.

[Jives]

mrsK wrote: I don't usually jump into these debates but I will on this & just have a quick say & then head for the hills;)

I am not sure that "Islam" is evil I think it is the way that some interperate things that are written.And then they turn those writings & their interperations of them into evil.

Just my opinion.I don't know enough about all this to debate the problem so I am bowing out gracefully.:-6


I used to agree with you Mrs. K, but as time went by and I saw that not only was the moderate Muslim majority not doing anything to stop this, they were actively agreeing that homicide-bombimg was an acceptable way to handle problems.

Now I'm pretty sure that the entire religion is suspect.

Oh...and you could never upset me, I respect you too much.

[BabyRider]

Jives wrote:

Now I'm pretty sure that the entire religion is suspect.


Agreed.

[cherandbuster]

Thanks for the info, onsekiz

Interesting reading

[golem]

Muslim clerics are adapt at making words mean what they want them to mean. The Innocent for example in islam doesn’t mean the same as the innocent in the non-islamic world, nor does the word terrorist.

The use of the term ‘religion of peace’ is another phrase that must be understood. Peace in the minds of Muslims means an end to the state of war against the Dar Ul Haarb – that’s us, by the way. All non-Muslim people and non Muslim lands.

So the word ‘terrorist’ can’t be seen in the same light as we see it – a person who deliberately attacks the innocent as apart from just who ARE the innocent so when an attack against an enemy of islam takes place it is an act of jihad and not an act of terrorism.

This situation is repeated again and again.

I have spent much of my life living with people who follow the cult of islam. I have lived with them, I have worked with them, I have debated with them, I have even been at war with them. In addition I have spent quite a lot of time in non-islamic countries and have seen repeatedly the attempts by non-muslims to apply their understanding about reality to what they see and hear from the muslim world. It can’t be done that simply.

How many people for example realise that it is not only permitted to lie in islam but actually under certain circumstances directed to so do?

No, the best way to understand islam is to ignore what hear or read about it and simply look at what people do in its name, not only in its name but justified in the koran and the hadiths.

The best way to know the tree is by its fruit.

[Uncle Kram]

Whilst accepting the comfort it can bring, and the codes of conduct for decent people, to me religion is brainwashing . Just an attempt at mass control by the removal of the ability to think for yourself. The agenda of a few became a way of life for all those told what to do and think. Glorification of suicide bombing is a neat tailoring of a religion to suit someones aims. I just don't get it. The younger they are the worse it is. Damn sure I wouldn't be sending my kids to their death for some man-made concept.

[cherandbuster]

onsekiz wrote: I believe no religion is destructive to humanity. It's about the people who doesn't understand their religion.

My ancestors fought against people believing different religions. And got bad treatment from them. But i never blamed their religion for that. Only radicals do that here.


I agree.

And I respect your defense of your beliefs in a kind and considerate manner

[spot]

golem wrote: No matter what the cause, no matter how just you might have been led to believe it is, there’s a simple fact of basic humanity.

You don’t use your kids as bombs. :-1I'm sure I should resist the temptation but really, I've never come across anyone so blinded by bigotry in my life...

No matter what the cause, no matter how just you might have been led to believe it is, there's a simple fact of basic humanity. You don't throw your bombs where they'll kill other people's kids.

[golem]

onsekiz wrote: I believe no religion is destructive to humanity. It's about the people who doesn't understand their religion.

My ancestors fought against people believing different religions. And got bad treatment from them. But i never blamed their religion for that. Only radicals do that here.


I utterly disagree.

Islam has NO PLACE in the modern world.

And believe me, I understand islam through and through.

[spot]

golem wrote: And believe me, I understand islam through and through.Quite simply, little man, I don't believe that for a moment.

[cherandbuster]

spot wrote: Quite simply, little man, I don't believe that for a moment. :yh_sigh

Spot always makes his point so eloquently and succinctly

[spot]

cherandbuster wrote: :yh_sigh

Spot always makes his point so eloquently and succinctlyPartly it's seeing the dozens of hours I put into fundraising with the local Christian churches, to help improve the local mosque facilities, brushed aside as a pointless waste of time by this continual drip-drip-drip of bilious hatred coming continuously from the same "expert" on Islam. I'd quite like to see more Muslim posters here to inform various of our discussions, but the few who have ever shown their face have had so foul a reception from a few isolated voices that they've not stayed long.

Golem doesn't listen, golem opines incessantly. If he'd only do it about things he enjoys instead of things he dislikes then his threads would be more of a community asset.

[woppy71]

golem wrote: So the terrorists elected by the ‘palestinians’ to be their representatives in the PA have launched a web site for kids promoting the desirability to become a homicide bomber using as a means of getting through to their emerging minds kids cartoons and kids stories. :-1

.
This is very, very sad:-1

ANY tererrorism is evil. How much lower can the human spirit go? These people are worse than evil. Cowards.

There is no good reason to kill another, unless it is in self defence. Killing other humans is wrong and using kids to do it is abhorrent.:-1

[golem]

spot wrote: Quite simply, little man, I don't believe that for a moment.


Try learning first hand whatr filth islam is to the modern world.

Loke I wrote, know the tree by its fruit.

[golem]

spot wrote: Partly it's seeing the dozens of hours I put into fundraising with the local Christian churches, to help improve the local mosque facilities, brushed aside as a pointless waste of time by this continual drip-drip-drip of bilious hatred coming continuously from the same "expert" on Islam. I'd quite like to see more Muslim posters here to inform various of our discussions, but the few who have ever shown their face have had so foul a reception from a few isolated voices that they've not stayed long.

Golem doesn't listen, golem opines incessantly. If he'd only do it about things he enjoys instead of things he dislikes then his threads would be more of a community asset.


Islam and the modern world is uttelly incompatible.

[Bryn Mawr]

golem wrote: Islam and the modern world is uttelly incompatible.


Endlessly repeating your mantra does not make it any the truer.

[Jives]

Seems to me that there is historical precedent for this kind of thing. Indoctrinating the young, I mean. Didn't Adolf Hitler have his "Hitler Youth?"

Oh...and the Japanese "Kamakaze" ws made up of young boys too, wasn't it?;)

[spot]

If we're into indoctrination of the young as a general issue rather than a social or political reaction to impotence, there's at least one country where individual schools and teachers lead classes in a daily nationalistic recitiation. All of the children standing at attention, facing the flag with their right hand over their heart, chanting in unison "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to The Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Do guide me in this, since I've never done it. In a given class where this is the norm, do any children demur? Do any teachers refuse to lead their class in the ritual? Do any schools reject congressional encouragement and refuse to participate? Is this the norm for 5 year olds as well as older children? Would you say that observance is common to most children across the country?

I find it utterly abhorrent, myself - to the point where I think I'd refuse to stand in a room where anything so indoctrinating were being practiced. I doubt whether the Hitler Youth were so extreme. I also note that the indoctrination seems very effective once administered for years on end.

And no, the Kamikaze pilots were air cadets well past puberty, not "young boys". There weren't many of them, either. The youngest kamikaze pilot to die in a suicide attack was 16 years old.

[spot]

golem wrote: Try learning first hand whatr filth islam is to the modern world.

Loke I wrote, know the tree by its fruit.I am honored by the friendship of several local Muslims. Religious observance is a major part of their lives. I would have no hesitation whatever in recommending their way and their faith to anyone looking to form a relationship with God and to live an ethical life in community with other believers.

If I posted several URLs to the wilder extreme fringes of Christian fundamentalist rant-sites, would you take that as sufficient to condemn the religion as a whole? Becaue that's what your thread here is inviting us to participate in, with your preferred direction of partiality. You know there are moderate Islamic positions expressed on the web just as there are moderate Christian positions. Would you argue that all of one are faked and meaningless, while the other is often an honest reflection of the viewpoint of the adherents?

There are far more aspects of Islam that I admire than there are of Christianity. I find it hard to imagine admiring a religion without thinking well of at least some of its adherents.

[golem]

It’s a bad mistake to confuse the evil cult of Islam with the many many decent people who live decent lives in spite of being under the claw.

Just as so many seemingly devout Christian people are in life real SOB’s and how so many of my people ignore The Law of Moses yet still claim to be Jewish.

My issue is not with the majority of Muslim people, it is with the foul cult of Islam and the effect it has on their lives.

After all, in the Christian bible in Mathew it reads ‘by their fruit shall ye know them’. The fruit is ripe in Mumbai this morning.

[gmc]

golem wrote: It’s a bad mistake to confuse the evil cult of Islam with the many many decent people who live decent lives in spite of being under the claw.

Just as so many seemingly devout Christian people are in life real SOB’s and how so many of my people ignore The Law of Moses yet still claim to be Jewish.

My issue is not with the majority of Muslim people, it is with the foul cult of Islam and the effect it has on their lives.

After all, in the Christian bible in Mathew it reads ‘by their fruit shall ye know them’. The fruit is ripe in Mumbai this morning.


Why don't the israelis come clean and admit they want to ethnically clean palestine of anyone who is not jewish and just take the whole area for themselves? At least it would be honest.

If that's not what they want then you must surely see the best way for the palestinian terrorists to get more support is to provoke israel in to invading, which is exactly what they have done and israel is responding exactly as the extremists on both sides want. As it is the only fruit growing is one of hate.

Sooner or later you are going to have to sit down and talk to people that you may view as terrorists else you are looking at warfare that will go on until one side or the other is destroyed utterly, if that happens that really would be ethnic cleansing.

In Northern Ireland you have people who were capable of chucking a firebomb in to a room where they knew there were children sitting who would be killed and were in fact the traget. All for a religious conflict more than three hundred years old.

Do you think three hundred years from now people will still be fighting this ridiculous war.

Perhaps the problem is not extremists but people of moderate and more tolerant disposition who need to get annoyed with extremists on both sides and bang their heads together until they stop trying to suck everybody in to a war nobody wants.

From the link posted by onsekiz

The Real Ideological Root of Terrorism

DARWINISM AND MATERIALISM


Mind you the above is a load of cobblers imo.

[spot]

golem wrote: My issue is not with the majority of Muslim people, it is with the foul cult of Islam and the effect it has on their lives. Then our problems are very simply solved, golem. You need to find a different word to describe what you are trying to represent instead of Islam. The world already has a use for Islam as a word (and, indeed, Muslim) to represent the genuine religious experiences of all those "many many decent people who live decent lives" as practicing Muslims. If you want to refer to a "foul cult" within Islam in which seemingly devout followers are behaving in an unIslamic fashion then by all means call them something distinctive - call them the Islamic Fundamentalists, if you like. I'd be happy to use that word to desc ribe what you're accurately depicting.

I believe our problem is that you feel Islam is inherently fundamentalist in core areas - in what you perceive as a demand for expansion and a lowered value on human lives. I could make exactly the same accusation against Christianity, with reasonable quotes from the New Testament to back that notion. I don't do that, while at the same time I do condemn Christian Fundamentalists just as I do Islamic Fundamentalists.

There was a time when Christian Fundamentalists were a pervasive aspect of the Western Christian church, and a huge headache for any part of the planet which they touched, the consequences of which are all to evident today. Islamic Fundamentalists were similarly a pervasive aspect of the Middle East at times, and a similar headache. My experience is that both for Christianity and for Islam today, these fundamentalist aspects which can be noted in passages from either of their holy books are not a part of their mainstream expression.

You are continually posting fresh threads like this one in an attempt to sway opinion to regard this website and others like it as representative of Islamic mainstream expression. There are undoubtledly areas of the world in which, right now, they are, and the damnable current IDF incursions into Gaza City are part of the ongoing reason that this is the case. The damnable ten-year sanctions regime against Iraq and the damnable invasion of the Middle East by Allied forces isn't just propping up this Fundamentalist interpretation within Islam, it's feeding it, empowering it and increasing adherents by orders of magnitude. This is action and reaction at work. This is sowing the wind and reaping a whirlwind. The fault and the capacity to bring it to an end both lie outside of Muslim hands.

Despite this, the majority of Muslims worldwide still reject these fundamentalist interpretations and continue to be "the many many decent people who live decent lives" you refer to. The Fundamentalist interpretation of either religion is still a minority point of view. Obviously both views have had ascendancy in their time and these pressures might continue to influence adherents. The answer lies in removing the flames from beneath the pressure cooker.

Islam can provide an environment in which practicing believers can live out their lives in communion with their past, with their congregations and with God. It can also provide texts and history supporting your critical view of its core values. For you to insist that your critical view is the whole truth is unhelpful and yet you continue to raise it here without encouragement and in the face of considerable opposition. Perhaps this proposed single-word variation in your language would immediately make exchanges here more meaningful and less antagonistic.