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As a former makeup artist, I have some developed opinions of the use of makeup.

People often wonder if I am analysis their makeup job as we chat and, although I notice big smudges and tell them if I see something I don't think they intended, I mostly notice what their makeup says about them.

A woman who spends more than thirty minutes doing her makeup every day (unless it is part of their job) is a) overly obsessed with herself or b) overly insecure.

Makeup is a way of hiding behind a mask.

Makeup sells because we want to look young and because we are held up to unrealistic standards set by the fashion/entertainment industry. I know what famous actresses look like before we make them up.

I am not suggesting that women should not wear makeup at all, I suggest that they find their favourite features and accentuate...don't cover them up. Less is more. If you have beautiful lips but cover them with lipstick instead of tint, I can't see them anymore. I see beauty everywhere in everyone. Be yourself!

I agree, you must be yourself in this life. Make-up is certainly a mask sold to women to cover up or disguise. I have always preferred the less is more attitude on this theme. Im sure with all the ways in which men help women to feel inadequate through the media, seeing all those so called perfect models on adverts, bill-boards etc its another lucrative scheme at the expense of womens self esteem

If we are talking about the media's influence on women's self-image, I would think that makeup is the least of our worries. Obesity in children and teens is rising exponentially, while the industry (entertainment/media) maintains it's unattainable standards of body size. I have yet to meet a woman who is not in some way obsessive about her weight- whether she be too OVERweight or too UNDERweight! It's amazing that we don't all have eating disorders (though many of us may and not even know!).

On this note, what does everyone think of the Fox television show, The Swan? Isn't this simply a graphic illustration of our preoccupation and obsession with appearance?

KittylovingBlond wrote: If we are talking about the media's influence on women's self-image, I would think that makeup is the least of our worries. Obesity in children and teens is rising exponentially, while the industry (entertainment/media) maintains it's unattainable standards of body size. I have yet to meet a woman who is not in some way obsessive about her weight- whether she be too OVERweight or too UNDERweight! It's amazing that we don't all have eating disorders (though many of us may and not even know!).

On this note, what does everyone think of the Fox television show, The Swan? Isn't this simply a graphic illustration of our preoccupation and obsession with appearance?


I was just thinking today about expanding the issue to include other matters such as weight obsession when I passed a billboard by Dove. They have started a "Campaign for real beauty" that includes a forum for women to discuss the issues of beauty with each other, a Self-esteem Fund, and an art exhibit tour for female artists to express their visions of true beauty among other things!

I will have to switch to Dove! Bravo!!!

Anyone interested can check out the campaign at www.campaignforrealbeauty.com

Naomi Wolff wrote that if the world's young men were dying from eating disorders at the percentage of our young women, it would have been declared a national crisis long ago. It's about time! There is a worthy cause for tax dollars, why hasn't the government done this already?

I haven't heard of the TV show. What is it about?

koan wrote: As a former makeup artist, I have some developed opinions of the use of makeup........Makeup is a way of hiding behind a mask.......I see beauty everywhere in everyone. Be yourself!


Nice advice from a makeup expert. But if acted upon it will put all makeup experts out of business.

It is a quote - "I see beauty everywhere in everyone. Be yourself!".

Suresh Gupta wrote: Nice advice from a makeup expert. But if acted upon it will put all makeup experts out of business.

It is a quote - "I see beauty everywhere in everyone. Be yourself!".


As a former makeup artist, I read a lot of history and chemistry books. I looked into starting my own natural line of cosmetics at one point to offer an alternative. Here's the thing. Many of our personal care products including shampoo, deodorant etc contain CARCENOGENICS AND CAN ALTER DNA. I kid you not.

Some products contain ingredients that are KNOWN to alter DNA.

Find a book called Beauty To Die For. Read it and see if you don't want to throw out everything in your bathroom. This is a serious thing.

There are many ways to make a living. If all makeup companies and makeup artists went out of business they could find another way to survive.

I have developed many serious allergies because of my former work. Some are life threatening. Our childrens products are some of the worst.

I'm still stuck on the line if a woman spends 30 minutes or more every day putting on her make up LOL. If they have to take 30 minutes, they might as well give up!

KlatunIckto wrote: Ms Koan how do you explain your beauty on the outside?


Very sweet. It is in the eye of the beholder, of course.

I hardly ever wear make-up, it's for when I'm going out clubbing and that's it nowdays. My skin is a lot healthier for it too.

30 minutes to put make-up on

I'd have to get up at 4am just to make sure I got to work on time :wah:

Thought it was comical the other day when one of my friends asked another friend if she had been under a sun bed... Orange face and white neck... So attractive :rolleyes:

letha wrote: I hardly ever wear make-up, it's for when I'm going out clubbing and that's it nowdays. My skin is a lot healthier for it too.




Good for you! Your internal organs and your self-esteem are much better for it too.

I was going to write 45 min or more...believe it or not, I have met many who do spend this much time.

Women may start to believe their self esteem is improved by "enhancing" their looks with makeup but it really creates a dependency on makeup to feel good about themselves thereby reducing their natural sense of self esteem. The obsessive checking of the mirror and reapplication of what is fading or smudging. What do they think will happen when their lover sees them in the morning?

Using makeup for self expression when you go out for an evening is just as fine as wearing fancier clothing or more expensive perfume. You find something that suits your mood. As a daily routine it is destructive to self image.

koan wrote: I was just thinking today about expanding the issue to include other matters such as weight obsession when I passed a billboard by Dove. They have started a "Campaign for real beauty" that includes a forum for women to discuss the issues of beauty with each other, a Self-esteem Fund, and an art exhibit tour for female artists to express their visions of true beauty among other things!

I will have to switch to Dove! Bravo!!!

Anyone interested can check out the campaign at www.campaignforrealbeauty.com

Naomi Wolff wrote that if the world's young men were dying from eating disorders at the percentage of our young women, it would have been declared a national crisis long ago. It's about time! There is a worthy cause for tax dollars, why hasn't the government done this already?

I haven't heard of the TV show. What is it about?


The Swan is a television "reality" series about women who are not happy with their appearance, so they go on the show to get plastic surgery, cosmetic dental work, and a personal trainer/nutritionist to make them beautiful. For 3 months, they receive this treatment without the ability to look in the mirror the entire time. At the end of the show the women are given a mirror to look into so that they can see their new selves- and one of the two women on each episode is chosen to compete in a beauty contest of only Swan members. Does anyone else find this as disgusting and degrading as I do? Let's reinforce our attitudes that appearance is everything! :-5

it is ok for people to say beauty comes from within but in this world is that ever really true? we all like to believe it is but its true wherever you are you are judged on your looks before anything else. True, make up is indeed a mask and a good one at that!!!

I disagree. Beauty does come from within.

I had a close friend visiting one day and I normally consider her to be of "average" looks with some kind of inner light that gives her an appeal. On this particular day, as we talked, I actually found the words "She is ugly" going through my head. I was shocked.

As this is something I NEVER think about anyone (and I mean that) I asked her why she felt "ugly". She broke down and admitted to me that her boyfriend wasn't sleeping with her and she had started to feel like the ugliest person in the world. I saw what she saw. We had a really long talk and she realised that she should never let anyone make her feel that way. By the time she left she looked beautiful to me again. This has happened a few times with different people.

On the other side, I have met a lot of "beautiful" people who are cruel and derisive. From a distance I had trouble looking at them because they looked so horrible to me. They are generally not very happy people.

For balance, I have met "beautiful" people who are also beautiful inside. They are stunning but most often complain that they don't feel anyone really knows them because they are surrounded by infatuated people who can't see beyond the surface.

I have read and found to be true, it is better not to be too good looking. I have seen a lot of people who are not considered "beautiful" who like themselves and seem to have the happiest lives with partners and friends who also like them for who they are.

i wear exactly the same uniform and gear as the male officers do, but i feel i want to be feminine as well, so i always have a manicure in red and wear lipstick and perfume...i hate being taken for a man in that uniform! our hair must be pinned above our shoulders and a bullet-proof vest squashes any feminine appearance! :rolleyes:

beautyful wrote: it is ok for people to say beauty comes from within but in this world is that ever really true? we all like to believe it is but its true wherever you are you are judged on your looks before anything else. True, make up is indeed a mask and a good one at that!!!On first meeting someone we judge by appearence but that is not just the physical appearence, we judge a person by how they act and their imediate personality as well.

Make-up isn't always that good a mask either, make-up worn as a mask can be too much and look more like a clowns face, or more often than not "you've been tangoed" comes to mind.

Granted people are usually judged by their appearance upon meeting them. But how many times have you met someone and though "how pretty/ handsome they are" until they open their mouth and you find they are truly ugly?

to be honest i have met many shallow 'beautiful' people who are truly ugly inside and yet they don't realise it. they think the world is theirs to command and all 'ugly' people should bow down to them and their greatness

I have issues with beautiful people, sorry thats just the way it is

to use the word ugly, is nasty. its too harsh and sends a message on behalf of the writer, it has no association to the topic.

Paula wrote: to use the word ugly, is nasty. its too harsh and sends a message on behalf of the writer, it has no association to the topic.


I will be nice. I will be nice. I will be nice. I will be nice. Why do you find it so much fun to push my buttons? Yes, ugly is a harsh word. Yet, there are people who have great outer beauty, but are heartless and rude. To me, this is ugly.

Paula wrote: to use the word ugly, is nasty. its too harsh and sends a message on behalf of the writer, it has no association to the topic.


I was unable to complete my thought, as some-one came to visit me:

The title is beauty with-in? Thats what i thought. isn't it amazing how a topic can translate into such anger? Beauty with-in could be ex: tolerance, understanding, concern, caring, honesty, an OPEN mind, a SMILE, a CHUCKLE, you can see it, a glow. no uglies...not good. (BAD). :wah: :wah: :wah:

Peg wrote: Granted people are usually judged by their appearance upon meeting them. But how many times have you met someone and though "how pretty/ handsome they are" until they open their mouth and you find they are truly ugly?


Now PEG, this is what beauty is about, to accept and understand some people have (SPECIAL needs), they need to be understood, you can always find something about some-one that is good. on occasion there are some DIFFICULT people, you have to OVER-look, and act as all is Okay. its a beautiful talent to have. I agree some look not good, but they can be the most-likeable in the world. The look has nothing to do with beauty, so of the most (EYE) catching beautys have NO brain, selfish too. :wah: :wah:

Paula wrote: The look has nothing to do with beauty, so of the most (EYE) catching beautys have NO brain, selfish too.


Wasn't there some sort of song about not marrying a "pretty" woman? Some

years ago?

You know i think everyone is confused with the BEAUTY thing and GAY Marriage, Christine Agulara, I am beautiful no matter what they say? Pretty Woman, didn't she take the guy to the cleaners, she was not (what thought to be?) not sure!!! i don't know, this modern world is in trouble, too much turbulence.

I very rarely wear anything... sometimes a little bit of mascara.

But I have done a lot for my face over the years in other ways... such as

always wearing 100% UVA/UVB sunglasses. I am 52 years old, and have

no detectable "crow's feet" around my eyes. Less than an 8 years younger

sister who hasn't been as religious with wearing sunglasses.

A few years ago, I needed to go to a dermatologist for a tiny spot on the

end of my nose (turned out to be nothing) and she looked at me and then

turned to my chart and said "Soooo, you're 47 years old?" with her voice

really rising, she was incredulous that I was that age and my skin looked

as good as it did. She didn't make any comment like "Gee, you don't look

it" but the rise in her voice was enough to make me feel pretty good!!

I must admit that it is genetics mostly I think. And I have burned a couple

times when young and foolish. Way back when I was a kid, nobody knew

about how bad the sun was. Oh well. Just hope for the best I guess.

:-6

same, i wear eye-liner only, i had burnt my skin earlier. I have had no sun on my skin for (8) years. So i am now 48 & have been inside because of my business's. Although i have had eye-lid surgery this year, i feel a little maintence is good. People think i am younger also, my behavior and attitude is the reason? but i don't view myself as beautiful, i am not a vain person at all. i am either liked very much or just the opposite, the opposites are low life's usually! :wah: :wah:

It's all peer pressure at the end of the day, what we see on tv, mags, films is'nt that what us ladies think is expected of us?

My other half asked me what i wanted for xmas & i said Botox injections & he never questioned it! it did'nt exactly inspire me, and there was me thinking i looked good for my age!!

Beauty from within? no i'm not having it, i for one won't go outdoors without my eyeliner, mascara & blusher i feel naked.

Whatever makes YOU feel good, is'nt that what matters??

ps; Paula, you're so naughty, stop winding these lovely people up.

Jack Sprat wrote: As with all aspects of life, the interpretation of beauty and ugliness is culturally based and biased. I rarely agree that the crowned "beauty queen" is the prettiest of the batch, and many people supposedly chosen as the winners on "talent" shows do not display the type of talent that attracts me.

Beauty does not come from "within" the person you are contemplating, nor does it come from any aspect of that person. The viewer determines beauty, utilizing his/her perception of what is attractive, physically and otherwise.


But what is important your own perception of your beauty or what others think about it?

I think that beauty is a combination of both. In first case beauty coming from within is the major element. In later case it is perception of others. Do you agree?

It is true that it is often those people who are least vain and can't see their own beauty that are the most beautiful in life. they don't realise how beautiful they are and that makes them all the more attractive. Plus what is beauty? How can we define something like this that is often a personal thing....who is to say that what I think is beautiful really is or is the same interpretation of beauty as any of you might have?

beautyful wrote: It is true that it is often those people who are least vain and can't see their own beauty that are the most beautiful in life. they don't realise how beautiful they are and that makes them all the more attractive. Plus what is beauty? How can we define something like this that is often a personal thing....who is to say that what I think is beautiful really is or is the same interpretation of beauty as any of you might have?


For 'beautiful' I will prefer to use the word 'sudershan'. It means a person when you see him you feel good. Your entire self become happy and peaceful. Have you ever met such a person?

Suresh Gupta wrote: For 'beautiful' I will prefer to use the word 'sudershan'. It means a person when you see him you feel good. Your entire self become happy and peaceful. Have you ever met such a person?


I think that is such a nice word to use, it is perfect and sums up pretty much what I was trying to say. I have indeed met a person like that who might not be 'beautiful' to conventional standards but is beautiful to me

yes. there is such a feeling, there are some people so refreshing, they make you feel good. ~~~Correction~~~in an earlier post, i have just remembered, i have not had sun (too much) in 15 years, since 33. i had a sun spot on my face (no cancer) called lentigo, it was surgically removed, the size of a (pea), ouch! on the cheek...i am very careful of the sun, long time, that doesn't make me beautiful, and i do not try, i just fix things as needed...

beautyful wrote: I think that is such a nice word to use, it is perfect and sums up pretty much what I was trying to say. I have indeed met a person like that who might not be 'beautiful' to conventional standards but is beautiful to me


It is nice to know that you have met a person who can be called Sudershan, the all-beautiful.

Paula wrote: yes. there is such a feeling, there are some people so refreshing, they make you feel good. ~~~Correction~~~in an earlier post, i have just remembered, i have not had sun (too much) in 15 years, since 33. i had a sun spot on my face (no cancer) called lentigo, it was surgically removed, the size of a (pea), ouch! on the cheek...i am very careful of the sun, long time, that doesn't make me beautiful, and i do not try, i just fix things as needed...


But that does not mean that you are not beautiful.

Suresh Gupta wrote: It is nice to know that you have met a person who can be called Sudershan, the all-beautiful.


the important thing is that he is beautiful to me, surely that is what matters?

beautyful wrote: the important thing is that he is beautiful to me, surely that is what matters?


Yes, that is what matters.

A persons' real "Inner Beauty" comes from within, and remains long after the "exterior beauty" (with or without make-up) ages away!