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Just saw some controversial news on line. The 'Star-Spangled Banner' is being sung in Spanish by controversial celebs!

Pop star Wyclef Jean performs on the song. The record label Urban Box Office is urging Hispanic radio stations to play the cut at 7PM ET Friday.

So how would you feel if your Nations National Anthem was going to be sung in anything other then your native Tongue?:-2

It doesnt matter. We know what it means and why. It's OUR song, and nothing can change that.

I sure wish I knew why Hispanics were so dead set on making America into another Mexico. After all, that country is dirt poor.:-2

Raven wrote: It doesnt matter. We know what it means and why. It's OUR song, and nothing can change that.We thought that of our National Anthem, you know, until My Country, 'Tis of Thee came along.

Jives wrote: I sure wish I knew why Hispanics were so dead set on making America into another Mexico. After all, that country is dirt poor.:-2
LOL! They are just trying to take back what they think we stole! After all, Cali, Texas, New Mexico etc. used to be Mexico once.

spot wrote: We thought that of our National Anthem, you know, until My Country, 'Tis of Thee came along.
LOL! Exactly! The tune to the star spangled banner is an old british pub tune! But the words are PURE american!;)

Raven wrote: LOL! Exactly! The tune to the star spangled banner is an old british pub tune! But the words are PURE american!;)Apple Pie and Motherhood, presumably. People *sing* about that?

spot wrote: Apple Pie and Motherhood, presumably. People *sing* about that?
Well we had to come up with something since we gave up singing 'god save the king'! :wah:

A lot of Hispanic kids in my school tell me, "I'm Mexican!"

I say, "Don't you mean "Mexican-American?"

They say, "No..Mexican!"

I say "Why did your parents come here? Didn't they want to be Americans?"

They say, "No, they came here to make a better life for themselves."

I reply, "Because Americans have better lives?"

They look confused and then say, "....I'm Mexican."

Sad, isnt it?

Jives wrote: A lot of Hispanic kids in my school tell me, "I'm Mexican!"

I say, "Don't you mean "Mexican-American?"

They say, "No..Mexican!"

I say "Why did your parents come here? Didn't they want to be Americans?"

They say, "No, they came here to make a better life for themselves."

I reply, "Because Americans have better lives?"

They look confused and then say, "....I'm Mexican."


Sounds like it may not always be the kids fault. They learn from their "parents", who apparently don't seem to want their kids to be Americans!:wah:

God I miss mexican food!!:o

Raven wrote: God I miss mexican food!!:o


Not me Rav, I Love authentic Mexican food, & we have a Mexican Restaurant about 2 miles away, that is one of the best around!

I love the authentic stuff too cars! Been across the border at Laredo and Nogales both! Nothing like Quervo and lime in the real place!:-6

cars wrote: Sounds like it may not always be the kids fault. They learn from their "parents", who apparently don't seem to want their kids to be Americans!:wah:But Mexicans technically are "Americans." So are Canadians. So are Brazilians, for that matter. America is a continent. Our country is called, "The United States of America." The nations on this continent are collectively called, "the Americas."

The continent was named after Amerigo Vesupcci. Why wasn't it called, "Vespucciland?"

telaquapacky wrote: But Mexicans technically are "Americans." So are Canadians. So are Brazilians, for that matter. America is a continent. Our country is called, "The United States of America." The nations on this continent are collectively called, "the Americas."

The continent was named after Amerigo Vesupcci. Why wasn't it called, "Vespucciland?"


Yeah that.

telaquapacky wrote: But Mexicans technically are "Americans." So are Canadians. So are Brazilians, for that matter. America is a continent. Our country is called, "The United States of America." The nations on this continent are collectively called, "the Americas."



The continent was named after Amerigo Vesupcci. Why wasn't it called, "Vespucciland?"
Because America is easier to pronounce?:wah:

telaquapacky wrote: But Mexicans technically are "Americans." So are Canadians. So are Brazilians, for that matter. America is a continent. Our country is called, "The United States of America." The nations on this continent are collectively called, "the Americas."

The continent was named after Amerigo Vesupcci. Why wasn't it called, "Vespucciland?"


But Americans speak English, not Spanish! :wah:

And Disneyland added "land" to it's name first!:D

George BUsh cant even speak English!

And I personally LOVE me some Mexicans! Holla for the Mexicans!

DesignerGal wrote: George BUsh cant even speak English!

And I personally LOVE me some Mexicans! Holla for the Mexicans!Y'know, the Europeans who impress me the most are Belgians, because they speak more languages on average than others. When you live in a country that borders others where other languages are spoken, it is a part of literacy to be multi-lingual.

To my fellow citizens of states that border Mexico- I say, quit whining! Learn Spanish, and get to know some of these fine people. You might start to like your amigos from Latinoamerica.:-6

telaquapacky wrote: Y'know, the Europeans who impress me the most are Belgians, because they speak more languages on average than others. When you live in a country that borders others where other languages are spoken, it is a part of literacy to be multi-lingual.

To my fellow citizens of states that border Mexico- I say, quit whining! Learn Spanish, and get to know some of these fine people. You might start to like your amigos from Latinoamerica.:-6


Oooooooh yeah!!!!!!!

telaquapacky wrote: Y'know, the Europeans who impress me the most are Belgians, because they speak more languages on average than others. When you live in a country that borders others where other languages are spoken, it is a part of literacy to be multi-lingual.

To my fellow citizens of states that border Mexico- I say, quit whining! Learn Spanish, and get to know some of these fine people. You might start to like your amigos from Latinoamerica.:-6


You seem to be a little misguided, why should "Americans" living in America have to learn "Spanish". While Mexicans "living in America" don't want to & won't learn English! :guitarist

It has nothing to do with not liking amigos form LatinoAmerica, it's just like when in Rome, you know the rest of it!:-2

cars wrote: You seem to be a little misguided, why should "Americans" living in America have to learn "Spanish". While Mexicans "living in America" don't want to & won't learn English! :guitarist

It has nothing to do with not liking amigos form LatinoAmerica, it's just like when in Rome, you know the rest of it!:-2Quite a lot of them do- but English is a lot harder to learn as a second language than Spanish.

In the Oz papers yesterday there was mention that the Government wanted to make some knowledge of English a prerequisite to gaining Australian citizenship!!!!!! Ayay!!!!!! Here I expect to see street signs in Chinese or Arabic any day now. I wonder how Waltzing Matilda will translate? (the song I mean not or FGer of that name). I do enjoy Asian food, and on occasiona even shwermas.... that's not in question. I think we've gone way too far along the politically-correct 'multicultural' line and need Aussies to spend a bit more time and enthusiasm affirming that they are all Aussies first - in language, custom, law and patriotic feeling, no matter where they came from originally.

I am not sure what Nationality my ancestors are but I do know that when they came to the United States of America, they learned to speak English and encouraged their children to be U.S. citizens.

Why is it that people that come here from every other country on Earth learn to speak English EXCEPT the Mexicans? Why is it that someone feels that in order to "honor" the immigrants he must rewrite the National Anthem in Spanish? Why not German or Korean or Japanese or any of the other languages spoken by hardworking people who came here LEGALLY for a better life and part of the American Dream?

cars wrote: You seem to be a little misguided, why should "Americans" living in America have to learn "Spanish". While Mexicans "living in America" don't want to & won't learn English! :guitarist

It has nothing to do with not liking amigos form LatinoAmerica, it's just like when in Rome, you know the rest of it!:-2


We saw what happened to Rome.

LilacDragon wrote: I am not sure what Nationality my ancestors are but I do know that when they came to the United States of America, they learned to speak English and encouraged their children to be U.S. citizens.

Why is it that people that come here from every other country on Earth learn to speak English EXCEPT the Mexicans? Why is it that someone feels that in order to "honor" the immigrants he must rewrite the National Anthem in Spanish? Why not German or Korean or Japanese or any of the other languages spoken by hardworking people who came here LEGALLY for a better life and part of the American Dream?I think when your ancestors (and mine) came to Ellis Island, they found a big statue that begged for "the wretched refuse of your teeming shores." I mean, it was a deeply impassioned, loving, open-arms, no-strings-attached welcome! Who wouldn't embrace that lady and want to be everything she represented?

When Mexicans come, they are not welcomed, they find only barriers and rejection. Even so, they bend their backs under the burdens we citizens feel are beneath us. There are white people panhandling in our streets, collecting stuff in trains of shopping carts, (some because they are mentally ill, and our "healthcare system" doesn't have an answer for them, but) many because they are too good to do dues-paying menial labor.

I talk to my friends in the Chamber of Commerce- Mexicans who have started their own businesses. They remember this town and that field, because that is where, as kids they picked lettuce, grapes and oranges alongside their poor parents. Often the first generation never learns much English- but their kids do, and they do their homework and excel in school.

Unfortunately, the only ones you hear about are the gangsters. You might be surprised to learn that they are in the miniscule minority. You have to live and work with the people to get a more accurate picture of them.

The problem may be in the numbers. In Mexico, right on our southern border, now there is "teeming shores" with "wretched refuse." If all were told, I believe that their politicians are no more corrupt or kleptomaniacal than ours, but we have a constitution that muzzles those dogs. Mexico has the same kind of rats in the halls of power we do, but they don't have an effective system of checks and balances to protect the citizens from their government like the United States has. (Which the powers that be here are trying with all they've got to tear down, demolish and thwart- consider the House 'Ethics reform" bill.) Because Mexico's system doesn't protect ordinary Mexicans from the filth they elect (ours does a better job of protecting us from the filth we elect), their economy is a basket case. So, here you have millions who just want a fair shot at a decent living, to work and raise families and have something to hope for in life better than rotting in poverty. More of them want to cross the northern border to the Promised Land than the Promised Land thinks they have room for. So we make it so hard for them they have to sneak in any way they can.

Can you blame them? Listen, you would too!

I'm not an economist, so if I'm wrong, correct me, but I think the United States economic foreign policy toward Mexico and the rest of Latin America helps deepen the difference between the haves and have-nots- It's doing that in our own country. But whether it's true or just perception, we see our economy in competition with every other country in the world, and so we think that any gain made by Canada or Mexico is somehow at our expense. Maybe it is, Maybe not. But if what we're doing is holding them down, can we rightfully complain that they want to come up for air and sunshine?

I have lived next door to a family of illegals. When the landlord finally had them evicted for not paying the rent - the condition of the house and the pile of trash and such removed was absolutely appalling! There wasn't a wall in the house that didn't have a hole in it, plumbing ripped out of walls, feces covered the basement floor. But hey, that was just one family, so what do I know.

I also dealt with them daily at my work. I can't begin to count the times that I was cussed out because I couldn't understand what they wanted. My daughter got a fairly good grasp of some basic Spanish in that first high school class - I am sure that English is not THAT hard to learn. And I found it astounding that for a group that can't speak English well enough to tell you what they want - they sure can tell if you don't give them exactly the right change for their money. Now, why is that? Could it be that while they are all about making some good ole American money, they really don't care about learning to communicate with those of us who belong here?

Look - I don't care why they are here or how they got here but is it really too much to ask that they learn to speak the language and obey the laws?

LilacDragon wrote: I have lived next door to a family of illegals. When the landlord finally had them evicted for not paying the rent - the condition of the house and the pile of trash and such removed was absolutely appalling! There wasn't a wall in the house that didn't have a hole in it, plumbing ripped out of walls, feces covered the basement floor. But hey, that was just one family, so what do I know.



I also dealt with them daily at my work. I can't begin to count the times that I was cussed out because I couldn't understand what they wanted. My daughter got a fairly good grasp of some basic Spanish in that first high school class - I am sure that English is not THAT hard to learn. And I found it astounding that for a group that can't speak English well enough to tell you what they want - they sure can tell if you don't give them exactly the right change for their money. Now, why is that? Could it be that while they are all about making some good ole American money, they really don't care about learning to communicate with those of us who belong here?



Look - I don't care why they are here or how they got here but is it really too much to ask that they learn to speak the language and obey the laws?


I would be more concerned about the loss of American jobs overseas. I would be more worried about the loss of life with this war. You better worry about oil too being that we dont grow our own food anymore.

telaquapacky wrote: I think when your ancestors (and mine) came to Ellis Island, they found a big statue that begged for "the wretched refuse of your teeming shores." I mean, it was a deeply impassioned, loving, open-arms, no-strings-attached welcome! Who wouldn't embrace that lady and want to be everything she represented?

When Mexicans come, they are not welcomed, they find only barriers and rejection. Even so, they bend their backs under the burdens we citizens feel are beneath us. There are white people panhandling in our streets, collecting stuff in trains of shopping carts, (some because they are mentally ill, and our "healthcare system" doesn't have an answer for them, but) many because they are too good to do dues-paying menial labor.

I talk to my friends in the Chamber of Commerce- Mexicans who have started their own businesses. They remember this town and that field, because that is where, as kids they picked lettuce, grapes and oranges alongside their poor parents. Often the first generation never learns much English- but their kids do, and they do their homework and excel in school.

Unfortunately, the only ones you hear about are the gangsters. You might be surprised to learn that they are in the miniscule minority. You have to live and work with the people to get a more accurate picture of them.

The problem may be in the numbers. In Mexico, right on our southern border, now there is "teeming shores" with "wretched refuse." If all were told, I believe that their politicians are no more corrupt or kleptomaniacal than ours, but we have a constitution that muzzles those dogs. Mexico has the same kind of rats in the halls of power we do, but they don't have an effective system of checks and balances to protect the citizens from their government like the United States has. (Which the powers that be here are trying with all they've got to tear down, demolish and thwart- consider the House 'Ethics reform" bill.) Because Mexico's system doesn't protect ordinary Mexicans from the filth they elect (ours does a better job of protecting us from the filth we elect), their economy is a basket case. So, here you have millions who just want a fair shot at a decent living, to work and raise families and have something to hope for in life better than rotting in poverty. More of them want to cross the northern border to the Promised Land than the Promised Land thinks they have room for. So we make it so hard for them they have to sneak in any way they can.

Can you blame them? Listen, you would too!

I'm not an economist, so if I'm wrong, correct me, but I think the United States economic foreign policy toward Mexico and the rest of Latin America helps deepen the difference between the haves and have-nots- It's doing that in our own country. But whether it's true or just perception, we see our economy in competition with every other country in the world, and so we think that any gain made by Canada or Mexico is somehow at our expense. Maybe it is, Maybe not. But if what we're doing is holding them down, can we rightfully complain that they want to come up for air and sunshine?


And you point is?:-2

Speak English in America!:)

telaquapacky wrote: But Mexicans technically are "Americans." So are Canadians. So are Brazilians, for that matter. America is a continent. Our country is called, "The United States of America." The nations on this continent are collectively called, "the Americas."

The continent was named after Amerigo Vesupcci. Why wasn't it called, "Vespucciland?"


Hey, just be grateful you're not on Amerigoround

Uncle Kram wrote: Hey, just be grateful you're not on Amerigoround


Clever!

English and Spanish lyrics to "Nuestro Himno"



Web Posted: 04/28/2006 11:10 PM CDT



Associated Press

SPANISH LYRICS
Verso 1

¿Amenece, lo veis?, a la luz de la aurora?

Lo que tanto aclamamos la noche caer?

Sus estrellas sus franjas

flotaban ayer

En el fiero combate

en señal de victoria,

Fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada,

Por la noche decían: "¡Se va defendiendo!"

Coro

¡Oh decid! ¿Despliega aún

Voz a su hermosura estrellada,

Sobre tierra de libres,

la bandera sagrada?

Verso 2

Sus estrellas, sus franjas, la libertad, somos iquales

Somos hermanos, en nuestro himno.

En el fiero combate en señal de victoria,

Fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada,

Mi gente sigue luchando yah es tiempo de romper las cadenas

Por la noche decían: "¡Se va defendiendo!"

Coro

¡Oh decid! Despliega aún su hermosura estrellada





ENGLISH LYRICS
Verse 1

The day is breaking, do you see it? In the light of the dawn?

What we so acclaimed at nightfall?

Its stars, its stripes,

flew yesterday

In the fierce battle

in a sign of victory,

The glow of battle, in step with liberty

At night they said: "It's being defended!"

Chorus

Oh say!

The voice of your starry beauty

is still unfolding

Over the land of the free

The sacred flag?

Verse 2

Its stars, its stripes,

Freedom, we are equal

We are brothers, in our anthem.

In the fierce combat in a sign of victory

The glow of battle, in step with liberty

My people keep fighting

It's time to break the chains

At night they said: "It's being defended!"

Oh say! Your starry beauty is still unfolding.

Ok I'm dense, but Acc what song was that? It's not our anthem, what is it?

I wonder how it would sound if a native american sang it? Maybe it would rain?

Sheryl wrote: Ok I'm dense, but Acc what song was that? It's not our anthem, what is it?


I believe that is how it is translated. That is our anthem.

SnoozeControl wrote: I'm sure this is a stupid question, but maybe one of the music guys in here can tell me what happens to a song when its translated to a different language that has more or less syllables than the original song had. Doesn't that throw off the meter or something?:-2


As the primary consideration is the syllabic relation to the beat, I'd say a word for word translation wouldn't work. In its place a non-literal translation would suffice which captures the essence and gist of the source material

The second verse makes me nervous, considering today's context.

SnoozeControl wrote: I'm sure this is a stupid question, but maybe one of the music guys in here can tell me what happens to a song when its translated to a different language that has more or less syllables than the original song had. Doesn't that throw off the meter or something?:-2Generally the words are changed when translating a song from English into Spanish because their sentence structure is somewhat different. And some lyrics are idiomatic and would make no sense if translated literally into another language.

When you read Spanish lyrics, there sometimes appear to be extra syllables, but when a native speaker sings them, they slur the vowel at the end of one word onto the vowel of the next word, eliminating a syllable.

Each line of the Star Spangled Banner starts on a downbeat. It's in 3/4. the "O" in "O say can you see?" doesn't start on beat 1, but on beat 3. One could lose two syllables, or two notes, by translating a line to start on the upbeat, that is on beat 1, where we sing the word, "say" in the first line.

When I lived in Africa, I found it disconcerting when they sang English hymns translated into their local language, because they had no concept of upbeat or downbeat. They started every line on the upbeat, beat 1. If one of our songs began on a downbeat, they would start it on the upbeat, and simply add an extra beat at the end of the line. They were singing the right notes, in order, but it felt weird, and the rhythm would get discombobulated at the end of each line.

Accountable makes a point. There does appear to be some agenda in that translation.