ForumGarden

Do your kid's teachers automatically get your respect for being teachers or do you feel they have to earn that respect?

I feel I will be leery of giving my kid's future teachers my respect based solely on their profession. I've heard too many stories ranging from inappropriate topics to child molestation.

Your thoughts?

devist8me wrote: Do your kid's teachers automatically get your respect for being teachers or do you feel they have to earn that respect?



I feel I will be leery of giving my kid's future teachers my respect based solely on their profession. I've heard too many stories ranging from inappropriate topics to child molestation.



Your thoughts?
As with any and every other relationship, trust and respect is earned, not given freely.

No. Absolutely not, does a person gain my respect or trust just because they are a teacher. I've had first-hand experience with teachers that don't belong around children.

When I was in about 3rd grade my sister and I went to a private school, where paddling was an accepted form of punishment. A wooden paddle, with holes in it, and teachers could use it at whim, anytime they thought discipline was necessary.

My father went to the principal and all the teachers my sister and I would have and told them in no uncertain terms that anyone who touched either of his kids with a paddle would then deal with him. One teacher decided to ignore the warning. When my father got wind of it, he went to the school and "straightened out" the teacher. He embarrassed him in front of the entire class, and threatened him with serious bodily harm, and then, after school, made good on his promise.

My story about the 2 teachers from the Seventh-Day Adventist academy that my sister and I both attended tells the story. These two teachers were not to be trusted around children, yet the church covered for them, and "transferred" them, to shut up the rest of us. As far as I know the 2 men are STILL teaching in that school system.

It all depends on if your talking about respect associated with the teachers relationship towards your children, or respect in his/her ability to help your child learn.

I think it is more important for the teacher to be able to socialize with the children they are teaching the younger they are, so as to gain their trust to help with there willingness to learn. Then as they get older, it should be emphasized more in trying to actually teach the child the things that are essential to their development both on a social level, as well as intellectual.

But to me the teachers who go out of their way to teach children things can be overlooked more than one realizes, because children dont seem to actually talk to their parents about his/her student/teacher relationship. These teachers are willing to stay after school to delve into their personal life because a student asks to have help with something.

Some students dont like school, which is why the teachers that go out of their way to create a bond with their students I think are more deserving than others.

Not to mention the fact that teachers have to put up with exactly what you parents have to put up with only 25-30 kids at a time. Imagine the chaos these teachers go through on a daily bases. Kind of like being a parent of 25-30.

Teachers deserve respect?

I say most deffinetly yes.

K.Snyder wrote: It all depends on if your talking about respect associated with the teachers relationship towards your children, or respect in his/her ability to help your child learn.
I have to disagree. You're talking about a person, a fallible human being being given charge of your most precious thing; your child, for many hours out of their day. I don't take that lightly and I don't think any parent should. This is a person who is going to have an impact on my child's upbringing and development. Just because they got that job, does not mean they are worthy of my respect or trust. Perhaps they are just lazy, wanting summers off, perhaps they are sick whacko's just wanting to be around children for a victim. You can't know everyone, and schools, I have learned, do a very poor job on background checks when assessing a new possible teacher.





Teachers deserve respect?

I say most deffinetly yes.




Which is your opinion. Just how many children do you have again, K?

A teacher gets my respect until they give me reason not to respect them. Everyone gets my respect until they give me reason not to respect them though.

Unfortunately, too often, teachers lose my respect.

This may be a little off the subject. I am a substitute teacher. I got NO respect from the students until about February except from a few of the teachers classes......for the rest I was calling security and writing bad and GOOD notes about the students. The HS in my little town started with 30 subs and there are 3 now. I get respect now. I know dang near every HS student in town and I think they are afraid I'll see them in the grocery store with their parents.........:wah:

Yes there are good teachers who command or are respected simply by their methods or style or personality. I don't know. I know a class out of control though. Sometimes it is just that they are all freshmen , gang leaders, from the reservation or just waiting until 16 so they can drop out.

What a difficult subject. I have to tell a story on myself. I had a disruptive student in so many of the freshmen classes I subbed for and I made a snap decision about him. One day I was subbing for the profoundly retarded class and this kid walked by and said "Hi Dad" to one of the teachers. I was blown away. This teacher saw the look on my face and explained that the kid was in foster care because he and his wife could not handle him. 5 months later I learn this kid is taking the AP Calculus, AP physics and AP English college exams...he is a freshman. GO Freaking figure.

One of Rowan Atkinson's more memorable characters in stand-up comedy is his portrayal of the sadistic class-teacher. Why's it funny? Because so many of his audience identify the underlying reality of the portrayal. If there were no sadistic class-teachers the sketch would be meaningless and unfunny. As it is, whole theaters-full of audiences applaud the exposure.

Can I bring this sort or teacher to mind? The ones who revel in their ability to cause embarrassment or naked terror? Of course I can, very vividly. Those I can bring to mind are even good at teaching, but they tend toward scapegoating to instil their own popularity among the classes they teach. The entire notion that "Teachers deserve respect" is meaningless. Peg's "Everyone gets my respect until they give me reason not to respect them" is more than adequate to cover such a mixed bag as an entire work-category.

BabyRider wrote: Just because they got that job, does not mean they are worthy of my respect or trust. Perhaps they are just lazy, wanting summers off, perhaps they are sick whacko's just wanting to be around children for a victim.






This works both ways. Teachers you have been exposed to, it seems, are more unenthusiastic about teaching than those I have encountered.

And I am an uncle of 5, soon to be 6. I am exposed to all 5 of them when they visit and I can assure you that teachers get the same rambunctious taste. I dont have to specifically be a parent to have the right to sympathize with teachers while being responsible for 25-30 kids at a time.

I am a high school drop out, but because my teachers were enthusiastic about teaching and willing to teach my rebellion, I like to think of myself today as being more than intelligible. I never did my homework, and I never payed attention in class, but they were always willing to teach me and put up with my negligence let alone my rebellion.

I understand that there are teachers out there that may have the lack of optimism toward teaching, and his/her enthusiasm and attitude toward teaching may suffer as a result, but one has to wonder which side over weighs the other.

I am simply saying that more teachers enjoy teaching and deserve respect than those who are as undeserving and untrustworthy with your childs ability to learn.

K.Snyder wrote: I am simply saying that more teachers enjoy teaching and deserve respect than those who are as undeserving and untrustworthy with your childs ability to learn.No, let's not water it down - what you're simply saying is "Teachers should be respected as equal as alot of other highly respectable jobs and shouldnt just be my opinion."

We're putting forward reasons why that's not necessarily so, as in "whole theaters-full of audiences applaud the exposure."

spot wrote: No, let's not water it down - what you're simply saying is "Teachers should be respected as equal as alot of other highly respectable jobs and shouldnt just be my opinion."

We're putting forward reasons why that's not necessarily so, as in "whole theaters-full of audiences applaud the exposure."


Why shouldnt they deserve respect as the same of any highly respectable jobs?

K.Snyder wrote: Why shouldnt they deserve respect as the same of any highly respectable jobs?Some should, of course. As I said, I know very worthy teachers, I think I brought one up. Some, it's quite plain to me, shouldn't.

spot wrote: Some should, of course. As I said, I know very worthy teachers, I think I brought one up. Some, it's quite plain to me, shouldn't.


Very well,

but I am also saying, in response to this, is that there are more deserving than those who are not. If anyone disagrees, they are saying that there are more teachers undeserving of respect than those who do deserve respect, and if so I disagree.

Teachers deserve respect, the same you would any other person. Do you prejudge them because of some bad ones? Then alot of other professions fall under that category. Do you prejudge priests, and politicians, nurses and doctors-all because of the bad apples? If so, then this is a sad trend in these time to be doubtful of everyone, and have no faith in the ability to do their job, and do it well.

Teaching is more then a profession, it is a calling. I would get alot more money doing something else, then what I do today. And more respect. But I choose to teach, because I care about the next generation and what they learn, and how they think.

K.Snyder wrote: Very well,

but I am also saying, in response to this, is that there are more deserving than those who are not. If anyone disagrees, they are saying that there are more teachers undeserving of respect than those who do deserve respect, and if so I disagree.And I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with that at all. Just so long as nobody thinks teachers are automatically on a pedestal by mere virtue of their admirable profession - they do need to profess it admirably first.

spot wrote: And I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with that at all. Just so long as nobody thinks teachers are automatically on a pedestal by mere virtue of their admirable profession - they do need to profess it admirably first.


Wouldnt this be true for any given profession? I mean, hell, the leader of a country could be a regular jackass(lets not get in to name dropping for the sake of the thread please).

chonsigirl wrote: Teachers deserve respect, the same you would any other person. Do you prejudge them because of some bad ones?My underlying assumption of a teacher is that they're vocationally involved and not on a power trip. I only change my mind when I see evidence to the contrary. I've rarely been involved with a teacher and not been impressed by their commitment. I've occasionally doubted their ability. I've occasionally met sadistic bastards who should have served jail time, too.

K.Snyder wrote: Wouldnt this be true for any given profession? I mean, hell, the leader of a country could be a regular jackass(lets not get in to name dropping for the sake of the thread please).Of course it would. In what way do you think our positions here disagree with each others'?

spot wrote: Of course it would. In what way do you think our positions here disagree with each others'?


None.

More of a rhetorical question, and that of simply adding to your agreement.

Another case of "its not what the person has said, rather the way he has said it".

K.Snyder wrote: Why shouldnt they deserve respect as the same of any highly respectable jobs?
Define "highly respectable jobs". What jobs are there in which people deserve little or no respect?

K.Snyder wrote: Another case of "its not what the person has said, rather the way he has said it".I suspect that it's not actually the way it was said, but rather who said it.

spot wrote: I suspect that it's not actually the way it was said, but rather who said it.


I resent that.

Peg wrote: Define "highly respectable jobs". What jobs are there in which people deserve little or no respect?


More doesnt mean the opposite to be of little or none. I have said before, more is anything over 50%, its up to you to decide ratios.

K.Snyder wrote: I resent that.By all means, if you can read your last couple of days' posts and then examine your conscience and say it's completely false that you're not trying to goad me, I hope you'll accept my apology for suggesting that this thread has demonstrated your irritability rather than any strength or weakness of argument.

spot wrote: By all means, if you can read your last couple of days' posts and then examine your conscience and say it's completely false that you're not trying to goad me, I hope you'll accept my apology for suggesting that this thread has demonstrated your irritability rather than any strength or weakness of argument.


Im not trying to goad you spot.

If I were goading you, that would mean I am wanting a response from you in an attempt to belittle you, and is not the case.

If you had noticed the only questions that I have asked you are sincere and completely reasonable. Any other time, I simply was just giving my opinion. It just happens to appear to you as goading, due to the fact that we disagree on the subject.

K.Snyder wrote: It just happens to appear to you as goading, due to the fact that we disagree on the subject.You'll pardon my asking, but which thread have we ever shared even briefly where you've not disagreed with whatever position I've adopted? In what way is this singular "subject", the inherent qualities of the teaching profession, different to all the others? I only ask to correct my failing memory, since I can bring no examples to mind.

Group hug!!

K.Snyder wrote: I am simply saying that more teachers enjoy teaching and deserve respect than those who are as undeserving and untrustworthy with your childs ability to learn.


I love this guy! I've seen literally thousands of teachers in my time in this career and I can list the ones that I think do not deserve respect on one hand. By far, the vast majority of them are dedicated, professional, honest sincere, and dignified.

They do a totally demanding job for a wage that should shame us as a society. Many live at or near the poverty line. For someone with a college degree to consciously decide, "I will help other's children become successful at the sacrifice of many nice things for my own family," is a decision that shows that teaching is less of a job and more of a ...

calling!:D

[QUOTE=Jives] By far, the vast majority of them are dedicated, professional, honest sincere, and dignified.

I would expect nothing less from some body teaching my child .

K.Snyder wrote: I dont have to specifically be a parent to have the right to sympathize with teachers while being responsible for 25-30 kids at a time.


No, you don't. But you DO have to be a parent to fully understand what it's like to entrust your child with another human being. Until you are a parent, you cannot possibly comprehend it.

Pinky wrote: There are the individuals that are few and far between who just shouldn't be in the job;
That is all I'm trying to say. I just happened to be "lucky" enough to encounter the "few and far between" ones.

Pinky wrote: Not necessarily, but as long as they do their job properly what else does it really affect?
OK, some might argue that if a teacher is exceptional, they (the parents) don't need to respect them. I think the opposite. If I don't respect the person teaching my child, for whatever reason, that person will not be teaching my child for long. It's a personal thing. I need to respect the people who have an influence in my son's life. Others don't.

Jives wrote: For someone with a college degree to consciously decide, "I will help other's children become successful at the sacrifice of many nice things for my own family," is a decision that shows that teaching is less of a job and more of a ... calling!It certainly shows a very strong motivation. The days when it offered long vacation breaks are fading, though it's still an effect. The money is, at least in the UK, invariably above national average pay and is comparable, for heads of departments upwards, with equivalent average management pay scales in industry. There's no shortage of jobs for applicants (though I speak from hearsay and there may be for a minority of subjects, I apologise for not having any figures to hand).

I am fully aware, though, and have first hand experience, of teachers who having entered the profession became addicted to the exercise of victimization and manipulation, and such teachers are hard to dislodge. I concede that they are a minority - of course they are - but Jives' "list the ones that I think do not deserve respect on one hand" is either a shocking underestimate or he's deliberately refusing to recognise a very real problem. Devist8me is perfectly right to feel concern that her children might come into contact with such teachers. Two of mine most certainly did, and they bear emotional scars still. The teachers involved are still in the same jobs.

SnoozeControl wrote: I agree that teaching is an admirable profession, but I think the question is:

Just because someone's a teacher, does that automatically make them an admirable person?


No not in my eye's. A person make's a choice to to become a teacher so i expect them to be whiter than white i EXPECT them to be a honest person i EXPECT them to kind caring and professional. You have to earn my respect because i'm trusting you with my child .

Jives wrote:

They do a totally demanding job for a wage that should shame us as a society. Many live at or near the poverty line. For someone with a college degree to consciously decide, "I will help other's children become successful at the sacrifice of many nice things for my own family," is a decision that shows that teaching is less of a job and more of a ...

calling!:D
Wow that's some ego you've got there . so what have you sacrificed ?????

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: Wow that's some ego you've got there . so what have you sacrificed ?????
Uh-oh....Do you realize the can of worms you just opened, Pants? I am SO out of here....

Well, the majority of teachers work many hours outside of the classroom. These are all unpaid, of course. Probably on an average, a teacher spends 5-10+ hours grading papers, making lessons, etc. It goes with the territory, no one thinks anything of that. All unpaid, of course.

Teachers spend so many days a year learning new subject matter, learning new teaching methods, various inservices considered necessary for their teaching role. This also goes for other staff members that work with students. I know I will have to give up one week of summer vacation to attend inservices in math. It is expected and we all know it. I think I have never fussed about it, but this time I did talk to my admin about it-I asked to be excused for some of the afternoon hours if I have the head of the math department sit in for me, because of my husband's health condition right now. They were very amendable, and we usually help each other out for problems like this.

Monetarily, all school teachers and other staff members should have their salaries posted on the school websites, you can find out what the pay scale is. It doesn't have a teacher's name, it is just a pay scale. But it might make an interesting look one day, to see what it is. I just know what I would make in another job, and it would be double. But I don't want another job, I am happy where I am. An active participant in education, with my students. A good teacher is one who learns daily, along with their students. Our learning may be different-we do know our multiplication tables-but we learn better ways to teach something, better ways to understand how to get a child to read, better methods to explain an important concept. That is why I teach. The joy on a child's face when they understand something that was very hard, and now is an easily understand fact. They can go on to the next concept. And more learning.

Would I go out of my way to make sure a parent or guardian was secure with me teaching their child? Sure I would, I call parents all the time. I call them in bad times and good times. I don't always like to report problems in the classroom, I like to tell about the victories and accomplishments that their child made. I always know it is their child, and that they have the primary interest in that young one's upbrining, as I did for my own children. I wish more parents would show such concern, it would help all teachers very much to have this support.

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: Wow that's some ego you've got there . so what have you sacrificed ?????


Ahhh..where to start?

I have two electrical engineering degrees, do you think I could make more than $32,000 a year with those?

The list of things that I have not been able to give my family because of my salary is too long to list. My wife's health bills have gone unpaid, I have declared bankruptcy, my son cannot attend college. Today, I have to go to the pawn shop to pawn my amplifier because we need money for mik.

Is that enough for you? Or do you need blood?

BTW...I consider you a total jerk for asking that question. I won't ask what you've sacrificed for your job.:rolleyes:

Jives wrote: Ahhh..where to start?



I have two electrical engineering degrees, do you think I could make more than $32,000 a year with those?



The list of things that I have not been able to give my family because of my salary is too long to list. My wife's health bills have gone unpaid, I have declared bankruptcy, my son cannot attend college. Today, I have to go to the pawn shop to pawn my amplifier because we need money for mik.



Is that enough for you? Or do you need blood?



BTW...I consider you a total jerk for asking that question. I won't ask what you've sacrificed for your job.:rolleyes:


2 engineering degrees, teacher of the yr 6 times, jet fighter pilot, founding member of Gin Blossoms and you still pawn things ? For milk money ? Dude, your an anomaly. Very abnormal and unusual. Why dont you take your sorry ass and find some new people to lie to. Im tired of you.

Jives wrote: BTW...I consider you a total jerk for asking that question. I won't ask what you've sacrificed for your job.:rolleyes:The one thing you can't afford to do on this forum, Jives, is to lose that becoming sense of humility that's the only thing keeping you from continual embarrassment. It's one of the prices you pay for your history, remember? You simply can't call anyone here a jerk, much less a total jerk.

Pinky wrote: Okay, time to put the handbags away and stop playing Bitchy McSnipe.There's ample legislative precedent for this, Pinky. I quote from http://www.statenet.com/capitol_journal/03-07-2005

FROM THE MIKE TYSON SCHOOL OF LEGISLATIVE DECORUM. It often seems like so much hogwash when a legislator refers to a hated rival as "my esteemed colleague" during a heated floor debate. Well, COLORADO Republican Bill Cadman dispensed with the false niceties last week when he confronted Democrat Val Vigil with these soothing words: "If you try that again, I'll ram my fist up your ass." The confrontation, reports the Rocky Mountain News, took place over a bill to allow the families of soldiers killed in action to use license plates normally reserved for active military personnel. The exchange was prompted by Vigil's attempt to amend the bill, which Cadman referred to as "garbage." Vigil responded that Cadman should know garbage, and the subsequent explosion -- and accompanying rhetoric -- was heard in parts of WYOMING. Both lawmakers were said to regret the incident. A vote on the bill was delayed.

yea pinky

BabyRider wrote: No, you don't. But you DO have to be a parent to fully understand what it's like to entrust your child with another human being. Until you are a parent, you cannot possibly comprehend it.


First off I will say your right, but I also would have to say, if I felt that my child was not being taught on the level which I would expect of them, I would tutor them on an individual bases myself. But Im not too sure where your going with this. Do you mean trusting the teachers as a means of personal issues, or from an educational standpoint? If your saying that you dont trust the teachers ability to actual teach the children, I would have to say you should take some of this up with the school system.

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: Wow that's some ego you've got there . so what have you sacrificed ?????


He was simply stating that because he is that of an above average intelligence(dont mean to discredit you in anyway Jives- just making a point- you could be a genius for all I know), that he could have chosen a job that pays significantly more than the profession of teaching and prefers to teach because it is a passion for a lot of people who happen to teach. That extra income I imagine is what he is talking about.

No need for the arrogant bashing.