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This has been bouncing around in my head for some time now, and I have to get it out. The bouncy noise is distracting.



I believe in and try to live my life by two biblical instructions: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you; and love your neighbor as you love yourself. I'm sure the vast majority of people would say they do the same, but do they?



Ask yourself:



How do I wish others to treat me?

- Do I want to be treated as someone who can't change the situation I am in, or would I rather be treated as an equal - a peer with ability and capability to take care of myself?



How do I show love to myself?

- Do I give myself the things I see that everyone else has, without producing some kind of service or product to earn such things, or do I set about the task of earning the money or barter required to obtain what I want or need?







People complain about our poor, and that not enough is being done to help them. I agree with the statement, but not the most commonly recommended solution - give them more money.



I see giving handouts to poor people as equivalent to feeding stray cats. The cats are hungry, poor things. It makes us feel good to give them a little something. Watch them come running when we open the back door.



Poor people are not inferior beings to be pitied. They are equal beings with equal potential. They also have equal responsibility to take care of themselves. They don't deserve to be given a fish every day. They deserve to be shown the respect of an offer to teach them to fish, then to be left alone until they accept that offer.



It's the way I would expect others to do unto me.

I could do a thesis on this. Is now the right time ? I dont know, Ill have a smoke and a cup a joe and mull it over.

Ask yourself:

How do I wish others to treat me?

- Do I want to be treated as someone who can't change the situation I am in, or would I rather be treated as an equal - a peer with ability and capability to take care of myself?



You seem to have a real hard line on self sufficiency. Im not saying thats a bad thing but the edges are a little softer for me, theres more gray and less black and white. I think the thing that pops into my head most often when you bring this sort of thing up is....no one knows what its like to walk in someone elses shoes. The end result of someones life situation is preceded by a lifes worth of....................??? Without having been there, we dont know. Some people truly have had a seriously rough time of it. Does that mean they should get a free ride ? No. But I would be very inclined to (if I were in a position to) offer a hand. The kind of hand that would enable them to become self sufficient.

Much the way we do in 3rd world countries. We teach them how to irrigate and grow crops etc. This is a good practice, its good for everyone, we all benefit. And in the process we become better as a result of being humanitarian.



How do I show love to myself?

- Do I give myself the things I see that everyone else has, without producing some kind of service or product to earn such things, or do I set about the task of earning the money or barter required to obtain what I want or need?



Not sure what your getting at here acc.



People complain about our poor, and that not enough is being done to help them. I agree with the statement, but not the most commonly recommended solution - give them more money.



The welfare system has been dramatically revamped in an effort to keep the line moving. In one door out the other. Theres a time limit on recipients care now, mothers who perpetually get pregnant are out of luck. We dont extend services anymore due to poor decision making. Also I believe job training is now an integral part of the welfare system. All good things that wont allow the same people to glut the system.



I see giving handouts to poor people as equivalent to feeding stray cats. The cats are hungry, poor things. It makes us feel good to give them a little something. Watch them come running when we open the back door.



This is condescending. Have you ever been hungry or homeless ? Its not an easy fix.

Poor people are not inferior beings to be pitied. They are equal beings with equal potential. They also have equal responsibility to take care of themselves. They don't deserve to be given a fish every day. They deserve to be shown the respect of an offer to teach them to fish, then to be left alone until they accept that offer.





I understand your point here. Give people respect and allow them the assumption they can be strong and vital, I agree.



It's the way I would expect others to do unto me.



If you ever needed help I would help you. Theres no shame in that. Sometimes people need help.

Ask yourself:



How do I wish others to treat me?

- Do I want to be treated as someone who can't change the situation I am in, or would I rather be treated as an equal - a peer with ability and capability to take care of myself?

Absolutely...but in reality there may be times when I might need support attaining that goal....that may involve money



How do I show love to myself?

- Do I give myself the things I see that everyone else has, without producing some kind of service or product to earn such things, or do I set about the task of earning the money or barter required to obtain what I want or need?

Yes....be independant and live within your means





People complain about our poor, and that not enough is being done to help them. I agree with the statement, but not the most commonly recommended solution - give them more money.

A combination of money and support / training / counselling seems the best solution



I see giving handouts to poor people as equivalent to feeding stray cats. The cats are hungry, poor things. It makes us feel good to give them a little something. Watch them come running when we open the back door.

Ah...not that straightforward....you need to know the history of the person before you can make a judgement ...ask the '5 whys' !



Poor people are not inferior beings to be pitied. They are equal beings with equal potential. They also have equal responsibility to take care of themselves. They don't deserve to be given a fish every day. They deserve to be shown the respect of an offer to teach them to fish, then to be left alone until they accept that offer.

Agree ...but there are certain poor people that don't have the capability to be self sufficient...mentally ill, physically challenged ??



It's the way I would expect others to do unto me.

Agree

Nomad wrote: Ask yourself:



How do I wish others to treat me?

- Do I want to be treated as someone who can't change the situation I am in, or would I rather be treated as an equal - a peer with ability and capability to take care of myself?

You seem to have a real hard line on self sufficiency. Im not saying thats a bad thing but the edges are a little softer for me, theres more gray and less black and white. I think the thing that pops into my head most often when you bring this sort of thing up is....no one knows what its like to walk in someone elses shoes. The end result of someones life situation is preceded by a lifes worth of....................??? Without having been there, we dont know. Some people truly have had a seriously rough time of it. Does that mean they should get a free ride ? No. But I would be very inclined to (if I were in a position to) offer a hand. The kind of hand that would enable them to become self sufficient.

Much the way we do in 3rd world countries. We teach them how to irrigate and grow crops etc. This is a good practice, its good for everyone, we all benefit. And in the process we become better as a result of being humanitarian.

Exactly my point, Brian. As usual we agree; we just need to hash out the semantics. Helping someone who needs it to get back on their feet is exactly the respect I mean when I talk about being treated as an equal.



Nomad wrote: How do I show love to myself?

- Do I give myself the things I see that everyone else has, without producing some kind of service or product to earn such things, or do I set about the task of earning the money or barter required to obtain what I want or need?





Not sure what your getting at here acc.

Love thy neighbor as thyself. I show love to myself by exercising the discipline to work and save for the things that are important to me. I don't spoil myself by buying things I can't afford, and I don't steal. It's about self-respect.

That love toward a neighbor, meaning my fellow man, translates into giving him the help he needs without going overboard. Many people who are self-sufficient feel guilty about having "it all" while others "suffer". They assuage that guilt by giving - or usually trying to force the gov't to give - things such as cable TV, computers, or other luxuries most of us take for granted. Getting a free computer is really cool. Successfully budgeting to buy a computer is infinitely more satisfying.

I hope that helps.



Nomad wrote: People complain about our poor, and that not enough is being done to help them. I agree with the statement, but not the most commonly recommended solution - give them more money.





The welfare system has been dramatically revamped in an effort to keep the line moving. In one door out the other. Theres a time limit on recipients care now, mothers who perpetually get pregnant are out of luck. We dont extend services anymore due to poor decision making. Also I believe job training is now an integral part of the welfare system. All good things that wont allow the same people to glut the system.

Good. I'm glad to hear that. Texas has a really good free skills training program as well. Applicants have to meet quotas of employer contacts & applications. Everybody celebrates their success.

Nomad wrote: I see giving handouts to poor people as equivalent to feeding stray cats. The cats are hungry, poor things. It makes us feel good to give them a little something. Watch them come running when we open the back door.





This is condescending. Have you ever been hungry or homeless ? Its not an easy fix.

It was written to be condescending, though it reads harsher than I meant. Some people enjoy feeding the poor because it makes them feel good, full stop. They don't see humans - people in need. They only see an opportunity to show the world how charitable they are. It's disgusting. When I worked at the Katrina shelter I saw it. People would come in and make a big show of signing in, but didn't want to touch anybody. Those were the ones we put behind the serving tables with a big spoon and bigger smile. The truly charitable also work in soup kitchens, but they stick around to chat, to learn names, to care.

Nomad wrote: Poor people are not inferior beings to be pitied. They are equal beings with equal potential. They also have equal responsibility to take care of themselves. They don't deserve to be given a fish every day. They deserve to be shown the respect of an offer to teach them to fish, then to be left alone until they accept that offer.





I understand your point here. Give people respect and allow them the assumption they can be strong and vital, I agree.





It's the way I would expect others to do unto me.



If you ever needed help I would help you. Theres no shame in that. Sometimes people need help.I never meant to imply there was.



I think it's all a matter of the attitude behind the behavior. I'll move a mountain to help a person in need. I'll move two to help them become self-sufficient. Sometimes that help needs to be in the form of cheerleader rather than provider.

Accountable wrote:

I think it's all a matter of the attitude behind the behavior. I'll move a mountain to help a person in need. I'll move two to help them become self-sufficient. Sometimes that help needs to be in the form of cheerleader rather than provider.


Agree 100%

Accountable wrote: People complain about our poor, and that not enough is being done to help them. I agree with the statement, but not the most commonly recommended solution - give them more money.



I see giving handouts to poor people as equivalent to feeding stray cats. The cats are hungry, poor things. It makes us feel good to give them a little something. Watch them come running when we open the back door.



Poor people are not inferior beings to be pitied. They are equal beings with equal potential. They also have equal responsibility to take care of themselves. They don't deserve to be given a fish every day. They deserve to be shown the respect of an offer to teach them to fish, then to be left alone until they accept that offer.



It's the way I would expect others to do unto me.




Good statements here. Just wonder how many folks, though, see giving to the poor as not a way to help the poor, but to make themselves feel just a bit superior to "those poor people". In a way they are saying "Look at all this money I have, and I am going to give you some." And they they feel better about themselves.

I would much rather fund programs that help the poor learn to better thier situation, and work toward earning thier own money and seeing thier true potential in life. I prefer my money go to maybe a colleg scholarship fot someone who other wise may not be able to afford it. Not footing the whole bill, but a start at least.

I am also very much an advocate for helping people with physical or cognitive disabilities realize thier potential, and become a more valued and valuable part of thier society. More employers need to open up and give these folks work that will help them earn a decent wage.

I would like to hope I do unto others, but I realize I am more in favor of teaching and treating with respect, so that I would be treated with the same respect in return.

Marie5656 wrote: I would like to hope I do unto others, but I realize I am more in favor of teaching and treating with respect, so that I would be treated with the same respect in return. Isn't that the way you would have others treat you, if the situation were reversed?

I think alot of people talk a good talk about respect and helping others.

How many times have we heard stories of people being ignored when crying for help..

I personally will treat everyone with respect regardless of who thay are, ie clouor, religion..to an extent...(not so sure l'd want to passs the time of dat with a satanist yya know!!)

anyway..

yes l do , l respect others and treat them as l would like to be treated and l love my neighbour...give them respect l dont play my music loud l dont sweart in hte garden...

I just imagine how l would feel oif someone was disrespecful even a neighbour and lve been there and it causes all kinds of stress. so be a good neighbour..

oh and for all peoiple treat them with respect and not pity or look down on htem, they just are unlucky nad need the chance to work their way up..

God knows lve been there nad had people turn their noses up at me!

Accountable wrote: Isn't that the way you would have others treat you, if the situation were reversed?


Hmmm..I guess you are right, Accountable. Guess I did not think the statement through as I was making it

[Accountable][I never meant to imply there was.

I think it's all a matter of the attitude behind the behavior. I'll move a mountain to help a person in need. I'll move two to help them become self-sufficient. Sometimes that help needs to be in the form of cheerleader rather than provider.]



Yes, if I were in trouble I would like cheerleaders to help. Im in trouble now....send cheerleaders please, thank you.