fornication

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:11 pm

Bronwen wrote: Do you know her personally?no, but I know math.

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/searc ... hid=528778

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:28 pm

As I logged on I felt my stomach knot.

For the people who are saying that this is a "load of hoey" (or whatever was written), it wasn't.

I've been working, which is why I haven't been back. As for the comment about having Internet access.....there are libraries. My pc is in storage.

What has transpired is that I stopped having sex with him (my choice). And he has been telling me that the Pastor is going to question me again and that I should tell him "well, he asked me to forgive him and we aren't going to do it any more". The second part is true for now. The first part is a lie.

He and I have been spending time around each other and it has actually been nice. He has become ....well........different. I really cannot tell if it is because of fear of the PAstor or because we are now not having sex, and he is this way. But I like it. He buys me lunch regularly, and we hang out together. We still kiss each other and hug, but it's usually when the Pastor is not there. The day that my temp assignment ended I was a bit upset. He made me feel so much better. He asked me about it and when I was finished telling him he said in this sweet way "don't worry about it" and kissed me. I worry a lot.

I am fairly sure that the other woman knows about it all now. And I have not seen her there in over a week. But I am not thinking that it is over with he and she. I am only wishing. I haven't noticed her calling him either. And last Saturday after everything blew up he said angrily "you got what you wanted, EVERYONE knows now". I am assuming that everyone is her.

I have come to the realization that I am not going to give myself to him the way that I have been, if he is going to run off with other women. Not just her, but anyone.

Lately he has been very very possesive, watchful of me and much nicer than usual. Yesterday I went to a local pool to swim with a girlfriend of mine (my temp assignment ended). And while I was there he called me on my cell saying in his message "so why are you not answering your phone now huh?". So I called him back and told him where I was and talked for a while. He had just gotten off work when he saw us leaving in my car. (he has a regular job he goes to, not everyone there is unemployed). But then when I got back there he questioned me "were you at the pool by yourself?" I told him "noooooo". And then he asked me who I was with. I told him "you know who I was with", and he said my friend's name.

I am not making fun of him, just noticing his possesiveness. It has become even more obvious, now that we have been all platonic. And frankly, I can go without the heartache it caused. I know that eventually it will come up and I will have to be strong and tell him no. And why I am saying no. If he can leave the other woman alone and be true to me, I may.......just may do it. But for now, I feel a lot better. And I also realized that whan happened was a good thing, by him exposing it. For a while there I was doubting my own faith.

Oh and another thing....he is black and I am white.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:38 pm

Saffron:-6

Two points.

First your private life in none of the pastor's business. Absolutely not.

Secondly, anyone who is that possessive, man or woman, has a serious problem that needs to be dealt with. If he is like that now and you were to marry him or move in with him it would get much worse. You would be a virtual prisoner and have absolutely no freedom whatsoever. It could indeed, be very bad news and ultimately abusive. He is not the first, nor will he be the last to be like that. It is not healthy for either of you and especially you.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:46 pm

Ted wrote: Saffron:-6

Two points.

First your private life in none of the pastor's business. Absolutely not.

Secondly, anyone who is that possessive, man or woman, has a serious problem that needs to be dealt with. If he is like that now and you were to marry him or move in with him it would get much worse. You would be a virtual prisoner and have absolutely no freedom whatsoever. It could indeed, be very bad news and ultimately abusive. He is not the first, nor will he be the last to be like that. It is not healthy for either of you and especially you.

Shalom

Ted:-6
YEah, I really just want to say that to the PAstor...."I don't want to talk about it any more". It's upsetting.

As far as the man, I am probably not marrying him. But living there is soooo much more bearable with him there. Really. I know that if he was not there, that I'd probably be very very unhappy. Shelters are uncomfortable (obviously). And having someone a man to spend time with and talk to, is so nice.

This guy is a recovered addict. And one of the things he said when he got up in front of the congregation was that he has replaced one addiction with another (sex).

P.S. my x-husband was very possesive too. And he was a drug addict. His jealous tantrums were very annoying, and I ignored the warning signs.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:51 pm

Saffron wrote: Oh and another thing....he is black and I am white.

Hi Saffron :-6

I'm really glad you are feeling stronger about the situation.

I'm curious why you posted the black/white thing . . . does it bother you? Or did you think it might bother us?

I find it to be a nonissue. It's what's inside that counts (cliched but so true)

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:52 pm

Pinky wrote: Ya know, the more you hold back the more interested they seem to be.

Lets forget the religion bit for the mo - treat 'em mean keep 'em keen does seem to work in a strange way!

If you let someone know that you are willing to put up with being messed about, of course they will do it! By giving this guy a bit of a challenge, it keeps him interested.

My friends sometimes feel sorry for Si, but he knew what he was letting himself in for, as I am not the easiest person to live with, but at least life is never dull!

As for putting up with being messed around, forget it!
Yep, I was being messed about with. But now I am not. And boy oh boy do I feel a lot better.

I have personal plans to go this Monday to a nice motel with a pool that is nearby. I used to let him go with me. I am going to take my bubble bath, my hair tint, and my library book and maybe my sketchbook and lay by the pool, read, tint my hair, take a bubble bath, shave my legs and watch t.v. and not go back till Tuesday. And before I leave I have to tell him where I am going (he is head security). But then just leave without inviting him. He will undoubtedly call me. And I will just have to tell him "no, unless you can stay away from other women". If not then I am perfectly happy spending time alone there, with privacy. (there is no privacy in a shelter). By then he should be hornier than hell, and I will have the control. I am the one in control now. And I plan to keep it this way.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:54 pm

cherandbuster wrote: Hi Saffron :-6

I'm really glad you are feeling stronger about the situation.

I'm curious why you posted the black/white thing . . . does it bother you? Or did you think it might bother us?

I find it to be a nonissue. It's what's inside that counts (cliched but so true)

WEll I didn't write about that before, that he is black. But my mother and father have both called me and told me off in a very very bad way. They are both racist.:-2

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:54 pm

Saffron:-6

Just remember you have your whole life ahead of you. Do not make the same mistake twice. You know the consequences. Yes this fellow needs help but at the expense of your personal health and well being and enjoyment of life?

I would suggest that you find another place to live and move ASAP. I would not let this gentleman know where you go or live.

Anyway, I've said enough.

Shalom

Ted:-6

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:56 pm

Ted wrote: Saffron:-6

Just remember you have your whole life ahead of you. Do not make the same mistake twice. You know the consequences. Yes this fellow needs help but at the expense of your personal health and well being and enjoyment of life?

I would suggest that you find another place to live and move ASAP. I would not let this gentleman know where you go or live.

Anyway, I've said enough.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted

You offer such kind and caring advice

Just wanted to tell you that :-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:00 pm

cherandbuster:-6

Thanks. I just happen to care about people.

I am a trained counsellor among other things and have, as part of my job, counselled folks, both young and older, for some 35 years.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:00 pm

Ted wrote: Saffron:-6

Just remember you have your whole life ahead of you. Do not make the same mistake twice. You know the consequences. Yes this fellow needs help but at the expense of your personal health and well being and enjoyment of life?

I would suggest that you find another place to live and move ASAP. I would not let this gentleman know where you go or live.

Anyway, I've said enough.

Shalom

Ted:-6
The place isn't all that bad. I mean, the Pastor and his son let people live there, as he has made it his purpose in life.....sheltering the people who cannot afford the local high prices of rent. He has been doing this for years. And they let us save money, work and and as long as I am working toward a goal, I can stay as long as I like. This isn't the regular kind of shelter, if it were, then I would not be there.

I was told by him (the guy I am seeing) that all the other shelters are open to take the people's SSI checks. I am not sure what SSI is, but I have heard that it is some kind of State aid that the mentally ill get. There are only a few of those who come thru there. But they are not allowed to stay. This is the kind of place where you must be productive. It has actually allowed me to begin to get back on my feet. And I have a few hundred saved now. :rolleyes:

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:04 pm

Ted wrote: cherandbuster:-6

Thanks. I just happen to care about people.

I am a trained counsellor among other things and have, as part of my job, counselled folks, both young and older, for some 35 years.

Shalom

Ted:-6

I'm not surprised, Ted.

I like the way you offer advice and build up confidence.

It shows in your posts :-6

Cher

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:04 pm

I don't know why but I feel I love this man.

Anyone want to take a guess about the "other" "girlfriend"?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:04 pm

Saffron:-6

I care.

Just remember that Jesus' love was unconditional. No strings attached.

Shalom

Ted:-6

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:05 pm

Saffron wrote: Anyone want to take a guess about the "other" "girlfriend"?

Saffron

Now you've got me intrigued . . .

Tell us!

(please) :-6

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:10 pm

cherandbuster wrote: Saffron

Now you've got me intrigued . . .

Tell us!

(please) :-6
No, I don't know. And I cannot ask him it is like cutting toenails with him. I was just wondering what others here might speculate.

The last time I saw her there was 4th of July around 8:30 p.m. HE was not around, but she drove in and parked her car in front of his office looking around for him, but didn't get out of her car. My friend and I wallked by on the way to the ice cream store, and looked over at her. She looked at us and we walked off. By the time we got back, she was gone. And it was not that long. And he was still there.

I think she knows about me now. But I was just wondering what you all thought. Did she dump him? I guess time will tell, which is another reason I am not having sex with him.:p

And another thing, on that day, the 4th, he was very distracted in the afternoon. And I sat next to him in bible study and he seemed very nervous. Even though he bought me lunch that day. I can now tell what his moods mean. He tries to hide it, but it makes me sick when she comes there. I feel very filthy, and it makes me want to verbally abuse him (and her).

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:21 pm

WEll got to go now. I have to go back to Peyton Place. So if you all don't see me here for a while, I am just busy.

:-3

Bye bye.:driving:

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:23 pm

((((((((((((((((( Saffron ))))))))))))))))))))))

Take care!!! We're all sending loving thoughts.

seekerw · Post by **seekerw** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:41 pm

Saffron wrote: I don't know why but I feel I love this man.

Anyone want to take a guess about the "other" "girlfriend"?

I'm a newbie to FG and haven't read all of this thread. Still, I can't help thinking that this man, the Pasteur's right-hand man no less, is taking advantage of you. You're in an economically inferior position, and they are supposed to be protecting you in the shelter, yet he is boinking you, another woman, and who knows how many other women as well. He shouldn't be doing that.

I have many thoughts on thsi matter. A pasteur shouldn't accept as a right-hand man somebody who's involved in fornication. It makes me wonder who the pasteur is boinking. I think somebody in authority should investigate this shelter and see how many other women are being taken advantage of there.

Sorry, Saffron, no matter how much money you can save there, I'd suggest you get yourself out of there. The money's not worth it, IMO.

Bronwen · Post by **Bronwen** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:18 am

seekerw wrote: I'm a newbie to FG and haven't read all of this thread. Still, I can't help thinking that this man, the Pasteur's right-hand man no less, is taking advantage of you. You're in an economically inferior position, and they are supposed to be protecting you in the shelter, yet he is boinking you, another woman, and who knows how many other women as well. He shouldn't be doing that.

I have many thoughts on thsi matter. A pasteur shouldn't accept as a right-hand man somebody who's involved in fornication. It makes me wonder who the pasteur is boinking. I think somebody in authority should investigate this shelter and see how many other women are being taken advantage of there.

Sorry, Saffron, no matter how much money you can save there, I'd suggest you get yourself out of there. The money's not worth it, IMO.Pasteur? Didn't he have something to do with milk processing?

seekerw · Post by **seekerw** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:02 am

Bronwen wrote: Pasteur? Didn't he have something to do with milk processing?

LOL! I meant pastor, of course. I couldn't think of the proper spelling.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:46 pm

I just found a pace to live, my x-roommate found a person who needs a live-in caretaker for an older man. They are going to give me weekends off and buy my food and just to cook and live there with this older man. We are going there tonight after work to talk to them. IT's near my college, over where I used to live.

So I just called the jerk and told him I am leaving and why. He got angry saying I can never go back there if I leave. I told him I cannot stand to be there any more. He accused me of sleeping with a new male friend who I have been spending time with, and I am not. He is extremely jealous of my new friend now. And I can hardly believe it. I told him I cannot stand him seeing this other woman.

My x-roommate said I need to tell the Pastor everything after I leave. I may even move tonight. Should I tell the Pastor, or write him a letter, what do you think?

ARgi · Post by **ARgi** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:09 pm

Saffron wrote: I just found a pace to live, my x-roommate found a person who needs a live-in caretaker for an older man. They are going to give me weekends off and buy my food and just to cook and live there with this older man. We are going there tonight after work to talk to them. IT's near my college, over where I used to live.

So I just called the jerk and told him I am leaving and why. He got angry saying I can never go back there if I leave. I told him I cannot stand to be there any more. He accused me of sleeping with a new male friend who I have been spending time with, and I am not. He is extremely jealous of my new friend now. And I can hardly believe it. I told him I cannot stand him seeing this other woman.

My x-roommate said I need to tell the Pastor everything after I leave. I may even move tonight. Should I tell the Pastor, or write him a letter, what do you think?

There's a good chance the pastor already knows and doesn't care. If he does care then you will only make the guy angrier at you and who knows what he will do in vengeance. My advice ....walk away. don't look back. you don't need to worry about these people's opinions anymore.

seekerw · Post by **seekerw** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:28 pm

Saffron wrote: I just found a pace to live, my x-roommate found a person who needs a live-in caretaker for an older man. They are going to give me weekends off and buy my food and just to cook and live there with this older man. We are going there tonight after work to talk to them. IT's near my college, over where I used to live.

So I just called the jerk and told him I am leaving and why. He got angry saying I can never go back there if I leave. I told him I cannot stand to be there any more. He accused me of sleeping with a new male friend who I have been spending time with, and I am not. He is extremely jealous of my new friend now. And I can hardly believe it. I told him I cannot stand him seeing this other woman.

My x-roommate said I need to tell the Pastor everything after I leave. I may even move tonight. Should I tell the Pastor, or write him a letter, what do you think?

Saffron,

Good for you. I'm glad to hear you're getting out. The guy has some nerve accusing you falsely of sleeping with somebody else, when that's exactly what he's been doing all this time himself.

I don't see that you owe the pastor any sort of explanation. He already knows the guy has been sleeping with somebody he's not married to. That in itself should cause the pastor to get rid of the guy. I'd be tempted to tell Social Services about the situation. If the pastor has somebody he's accountable to in the church, I'd tell them, too.

The best to you, and please keep me posted.

Seekerw

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:36 pm

Saffron wrote: I just found a pace to live, my x-roommate found a person who needs a live-in caretaker for an older man. They are going to give me weekends off and buy my food and just to cook and live there with this older man. We are going there tonight after work to talk to them. IT's near my college, over where I used to live.?

Live-in caretaker? That's all, I assume.

Saffron wrote: So I just called the jerk and told him I am leaving and why. He got angry saying I can never go back there if I leave. I told him I cannot stand to be there any more. He accused me of sleeping with a new male friend who I have been spending time with, and I am not. He is extremely jealous of my new friend now. And I can hardly believe it. I told him I cannot stand him seeing this other woman.

My x-roommate said I need to tell the Pastor everything after I leave. I may even move tonight. Should I tell the Pastor, or write him a letter, what do you think?

Well, you've dumped this chap. OK. WTFlip do you need to tell "the Pastor"

anything at all in addition to that? Move on, try to keep yourself a little more

respectable - flame on, if you like - and chuck your mobile 'phone "in the garbage".

ARgi · Post by **ARgi** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:45 pm

Bill Sikes wrote:

and chuck your mobile 'phone "in the garbage".

get a new number!

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:50 pm

Sikes - chuck your mobile in the bin...

ARgi wrote: get a new number!

No. Chuck the effing thing away. Stand on two legs, and *live*.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:51 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: Sikes - chuck your mobile in the bin...

No. Chuck the effing thing away. Stand on two legs, and *live*.

Why is that in red? I are psst.

ARgi · Post by **ARgi** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:53 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: Why is that in red? I are psst.

throwing away a phone is not a good idea for someone of little means...but hey...it could be theraputic.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:58 pm

ARgi wrote: throwing away a phone is not a good idea for someone of little means...but hey...it could be theraputic.

If someone is on their uppers, then why waste money on a mobile 'phone? Be a

slave to the thing, and others?

Liberate yourselves!!! Burn the heifier! (you need to know how to say that word).

Theraputic? I think so!

ARgi · Post by **ARgi** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:08 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: If someone is on their uppers, then why waste money on a mobile 'phone? Be a

slave to the thing, and others?

Liberate yourselves!!! Burn the heifier! (you need to know how to say that word).

Theraputic? I think so!

are you on your uppers?

oh btw ...a heifer is a female cow right?

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:15 pm

I turn off my cell sometimes, and sometimes it's on vibrate.

Well, he hasn't called me since SAturday night while I was in an interview to go live at the caretaker job. I purposely left my cell in the truck while I was there as I knew he'd be calling me. So when I looked at the cell later, it had 3 missed calls on it, all of them his.

He seemed sincerely and seriously worried about me and what happens to me. Does not want me to go. He even called me at work Saturday and said that he cares for me and does not want me to go. Those were his exact words. But I told him I am leaving anyway, when I get the chance to move. Then he was waiting up for me when I arrived back at the shelter.

All of this caring and stuff means nothing when he leaves with that other woman. I just get hateful and angry towards him all over again. Like he did on Monday night. He stayed out all night with the b**** and got back around 5 a.m. in time to go to work. This he told me last night.

I have a new friend who I've been spending time with now. He has not tried to get me to sleep with him. Says we need to not do that right now and just help each other, as we are both in the same situation. And that we also need to be discreet. WE talk on our cells a few times a day, and when we are both at the shelter, we don't act like anything is up. But we are planning on getting an apartment together, soon as he and I are more stable.

So now Will has become insanely jealous of my new friend, accusing me of sleeping with him, and even last night says he saw me "smiling at him", so what! I told him "at least he respects me". My new friend knows all about what has happened to me and he thinks this guy Will is a dog, especially since he teaches bible study and works there for a church.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:11 pm

Dear Saffron,

I've been following your thread for a while and one thing keeps popping up in my mind- I think you need to get some more regard for yourself. I mean that in a kind way, not as an insult. I can't tell if you're the "other woman" or if she is. Maybe you both are. That's not good. Get a real man who is faithful to you in word and deed. Don't sleep with somebody who sleeps with someone else, even if it's only on "occasion." And don't be too fast to be intimate with someone, even though that's easier said than done. That's not my personal judgement call, it just makes good sense and can save you some grief. I'm seeing in your posts that a lot of people are abusing the trust that religion seems to create in people. I don't know what kind of shelter you're living in but I guess it's one with a religious base? I would not be acknowledging a man who slept with me then told everyone about it and asked for their and God's forgiveness. I think that's a slap in the face and I am incensed that these individuals are butting into your personal sexual life, especially under the guise of religious interest. That makes me so angry and I don't even know you! I think you should say no more to them and stand up for yourself.

In the end, treat yourself better. Thanks for listening to my unasked for advice.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:34 am

RedGlitter wrote: Dear Saffron,

I've been following your thread for a while and one thing keeps popping up in my mind- I think you need to get some more regard for yourself. I mean that in a kind way, not as an insult. I can't tell if you're the "other woman" or if she is. Maybe you both are. That's not good. Get a real man who is faithful to you in word and deed. Don't sleep with somebody who sleeps with someone else, even if it's only on "occasion." And don't be too fast to be intimate with someone, even though that's easier said than done. That's not my personal judgement call, it just makes good sense and can save you some grief. I'm seeing in your posts that a lot of people are abusing the trust that religion seems to create in people. I don't know what kind of shelter you're living in but I guess it's one with a religious base? I would not be acknowledging a man who slept with me then told everyone about it and asked for their and God's forgiveness. I think that's a slap in the face and I am incensed that these individuals are butting into your personal sexual life, especially under the guise of religious interest. That makes me so angry and I don't even know you! I think you should say no more to them and stand up for yourself.

In the end, treat yourself better. Thanks for listening to my unasked for advice.

yes I know. I don't and didn't like anyone butting into my life. And yeah, sometimes I don't acknowledge this guy Will. But then every time I do this, I remember back to the time I first arrived there at 4 a.m. completely lost and weak and he took me in. There was someone who was on duty that night who was an insensitive person who tried to tell me I could only stay one night. And this guy Will came up behind him, as he has been standing in the background watching me and listening. And he told the other guy, "let her stay, she's staying".

It's like nobody can understand what it is really like being without a place to live. Even my own family has no understanding about it. And they are completely uncaring about my situation. Just another reason for me to trust these people who let me live there, just because. There are quite a few people like me there. Men and women.

I'm trying to treat myself better. FOr one thing I'm not having sex with him any more. Or anybody else. I'm going back to being celibate. I think I just may tell him this myself. Or maybe not, he does not need to hear it from me. If I stop, he'll figure it out.

The thing is, that I am trying to be.....trying to get along with these people in order to stay there. IT's free, and yes it's a Baptist church. The pastor has taken to helping homeless people instead of his old congregation. I guess it's his calling.

naty2005 · Post by **naty2005** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:40 am

Thats Sick That He Wanted To Know The Details.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:47 am

naty2005 wrote: Thats Sick That He Wanted To Know The Details.

Yeah, but I guess I shouldn't have told him anything. But I can be sure of one thing, I am never going to discuss that with him again.

The man Will, was even angry that I told him anything. He said so.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:54 am

Have you ever thought about being by yourself for a while? It seems you are dependent on men for self esteem and thats not a good way to get it. Love yourself first becuase there is only one person that is going to be there for Saffron all the while and thats Saffron. Take care of yourself and be ALONE for a while, at least until you learn to love yourself.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:07 pm

DesignerGal wrote: Have you ever thought about being by yourself for a while? It seems you are dependent on men for self esteem and thats not a good way to get it. Love yourself first becuase there is only one person that is going to be there for Saffron all the while and thats Saffron. Take care of yourself and be ALONE for a while, at least until you learn to love yourself.
I've been by myself for about 6 years before all of this. It was lonely.:-1

I do love myself.