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I just saw this story on CNN.COM and thought it might be a good topic to discuss. SHe is only 12 and has filmed a scene in a new movie called Houndog where she is violently raped. Do you guys think she is too young or is it art?

:yh_think hmm.....

something about violent rape scene and art together in a sentence just doesnt seem right to me...but w/e....my opinion.

I'm sure she was well-taken care of during the filming of the scene. The whole element of violence and fear would *not* be part of the equation, since we're talking about acting, so I think it's O.K.

I doubt everyone will agree with me, though . . .

cherandbuster wrote: I'm sure she was well-taken care of during the filming of the scene. The whole element of violence and fear would *not* be part of the equation, since we're talking about acting, so I think it's O.K.

I doubt everyone will agree with me, though . . .


I second that.

I don't know. Is the rape of a child something we really need to see in a film?? I know I would not be comfortable.

I know it happens in real life...but if it is a part of the story being told, then can't it just be "suggested. You know..cut away just before the act?

In the movie of A Time to Kill, a integral part of the story was the brutal rape and beating of a young girl. The scene cut away just as the the two perpetrators caught up to the girl.

Marie5656 wrote: I don't know. Is the rape of a child something we really need to see in a film?? I know I would not be comfortable.

I know it happens in real life...but if it is a part of the story being told, then can't it just be "suggested. You know..cut away just before the act?

In the movie of A Time to Kill, a integral part of the story was the brutal rape and beating of a young girl. The scene cut away just as the the two perpetrators caught up to the girl.


What Marie said: :guitarist

Acting, schmacting, the baby girl is only "12" ! Where the hell is the directors head, & or for that matter the girls Mother's, what ever could they be thinking?

(Except about the almighty money) Such a thing can stain Dakota's mind for ever, and affect her in her later years! It's one of the most dispicable things in real life, why would people want to spend money on this, so to view it as entertainment! Seems Absurd!:-5

I'm with Cars and Marie on this one....just doesn't seem right to me...

No, it is not art.

Who would want to see a movie about that anyway? I certainly wouldn't.

As Chonsi said, the girl will no doubt be taken care of. But I am more concerned that the producers think that people want to see this. And I've a feeling that they may well be right. People seem to need the macabre. Not very dissimilar to how everyone slows down to view an accident, even if they are on the opposite carriageway with a clear way ahead of them.

It doesn't sit well with me at all and it is not the sort of film i would find entertaining....give me pirates of the carribean any day ............

I saw a Lifetime movie not too long ago and Jenna Malone was in it and she filmed a rape scene as well. She was being raped by her mother's boyfriend. It was very true to life and it showed alot. I remember my stomach turning as I watched it. Time to Kill is one of my favorite movies and I thought they depicted the brutal rape then perfectly. When one is left to imagine the scene in their own mind I bet they tend to protect themselves from the most horrendous parts.

I think she is way too young for a scene like that, as well as Brooke Sheilds in Pretty Baby and Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver.

I cannot watch movies like that, you are braver then me, DG. You can have that implied in the story without showing it.

My gosh, I was frightened to death of B scifi flicks as a kid, and they didn't show a thing!

Have any of you ever seen this girl interviewed? Dakota Fanning is one of the brightest, most eloquest, level-headed kids I've ever heard speak. She is brilliant and a prodigy of acting to be sure. I've no doubt that she went into this fully aware of what she was doing and I also have no doubt that she and her parents knew exactly what they were doing. She is a brilliant actress, in my mind the next Meryl Streep. I'd watch this movie. I'd watch anything with Dakota Fanning in it. Incredibly impressive.

yes, she is incredibly talented but at 12 years old, she shouldn't be fully aware of what she is doing, regarding acting out a brutal rape. I have a twelve year old daughter and under no circumstances would I allow her to take part in anything like this. Her parents should be hanging their heads in shame.

She's a just a child, a little girl who should be protected, not pushed forward and made to grow up too quickly

cars wrote: What Marie said: :guitarist

..... & or for that matter the girls Mother's, what ever could they be thinking?




I know what theyre thinking, and its green......really green.

I agree with Marie and Car's on this just gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. I agree BR she is a brilliant young girl and her acting is superb but she is still a child and I see no reason to show the violent rape of a child in any movie period. :-5 Perverts will be in force to see this I'm sure they are the ones that scare me when movies like this come out.. then we start reading in the new about our babies being violently hurt.. Sorry I just don't like it.

booradley wrote: yes, she is incredibly talented but at 12 years old, she shouldn't be fully aware of what she is doing, regarding acting out a brutal rape. I have a twelve year old daughter and under no circumstances would I allow her to take part in anything like this. Her parents should be hanging their heads in shame.

She's a just a child, a little girl who should be protected, not pushed forward and made to grow up too quickly


What boo said!

And I have a twelve year old Granddaughter, & no way in hell would her mother let her (nor would she want to herself) take part in anything like this also! (And that's not to mention, they could use the money!) :-2

BabyRider wrote: Have any of you ever seen this girl interviewed? Dakota Fanning is one of the brightest, most eloquest, level-headed kids I've ever heard speak. She is brilliant and a prodigy of acting to be sure. I've no doubt that she went into this fully aware of what she was doing and I also have no doubt that she and her parents knew exactly what they were doing. She is a brilliant actress, in my mind the next Meryl Streep. I'd watch this movie. I'd watch anything with Dakota Fanning in it. Incredibly impressive.


And this is why I think Ms. Fanning can fully separate 'acting' from 'real life'.

But I do see that I am in the minority on this one.

I fully agree with BR re the undoubted talents of Dakota Fanning. She's by far the best female child actor in a very long time, and intelligent with it, her future is secure. Thus said she was obviously the first choice for this role in the movie.

HOWEVER, I'm not comfortable with watching a child being "raped", even though it isn't reality.

BabyRider wrote: Have any of you ever seen this girl interviewed? Dakota Fanning is one of the brightest, most eloquest, level-headed kids I've ever heard speak. She is brilliant and a prodigy of acting to be sure. I've no doubt that she went into this fully aware of what she was doing and I also have no doubt that she and her parents knew exactly what they were doing. She is a brilliant actress, in my mind the next Meryl Streep. I'd watch this movie. I'd watch anything with Dakota Fanning in it. Incredibly impressive.


Yes Dakota is a brilliant actress, especially at her tender age. That's why it's such a shame, as she doesn't need to accept such degrading tinderbox roles to enhance her already accomplished career! For most people, Rape on film, is not entertainment by any stretch of the imigination! Especially when children are involved, and although Dakota is a briliallant budding actress, she's still only a child! :wah:

There are some really excellent movies made that make you think or make a bold statement about social issues that are often over looked by some. "Monster's Ball" with the lovely and talented Halle Barry comes to mind.

I have seen Dakota on a couple of different shows and if you were to listen to the conversations without seeing a child - you would not know that this young lady was really so young. I am sure, with the amount of money she is demanding, that any part of a rape scene would be done very carefully with every effort being made to make her as comfortable (both mentally and physically) as possible.

I have very little tolerance for movies that hurt people unless it is an integral part of the plot. I will be interested in seeing the press on this film.

I am not at all inspired to watch a film with a child-rape scene in it. But I think it would be helpful to hear what Dakota Fanning has to say about her part. It could be enlightening.

I also think it's important to suitably educate children in the dangers of this world including the horrors that can be inflicted by mankind. Although it is not necessary to be any more graphic than necessary to get the lesson across.

Well said OM I agree. I still get a sick feeling in my stomach at movie makers thinking it even necessary to film such a scene, WHY ?? It could be done so you wouldn't have to actually see the rape. I'm sorry she is still a 12 year old baby that shouldn't have been asked to do this scene. If she was my daughter she would not have been allowed to do the scene. We as parents are suppose to protect our babies for unecessary painfully things. I don't care if she is a Oscar winning brilliant 12 year old star she is a CHILD.. Just me a bit old fashioned, kids today grow up way to fast...

[QUOTE]I am not at all inspired to watch a film with a child-rape scene in it. But I think it would be helpful to hear what Dakota Fanning has to say about her part. It could be enlightening.

I also think it's important to suitably educate children in the dangers of this world including the horrors that can be inflicted by mankind. Although it is not necessary to be any more graphic than necessary to get the lesson across.[/QUOTE]

CARLA wrote: Well said OM I agree. I still get a sick feeling in my stomach at movie makers thinking it even necessary to film such a scene, WHY ?? It could be done so you wouldn't have to actually see the rape. I'm sorry she is still a 12 year old baby that shouldn't have been asked to do this scene. If she was my daughter she would not have been allowed to do the scene. We as parents are suppose to protect our babies for unecessary painfully things. I don't care if she is a Oscar winning brilliant 12 year old star she is a CHILD.. Just me a bit old fashioned, kids today grow up way to fast...


They do indeed grow up fast. But in some cases, not with the proper preparation for adulthood. Carla, I fear that like many child stars before her, Dakota will struggle through adulthood. I pray that she may be an exception to this rule.

flopstock wrote: All I have to say is that Michael Jackson and Macaulay Culkin were child prodigies too... just look where society not protecting them from themselves left them..


Excellent analogy flop!;)

My point exactly Floppy they are children we as adults are to guide them to adulthood not push it in their faces as babies...

[QUOTE]All I have to say is that Michael Jackson and Macaulay Culkin

were child prodigies too... just look where society not protecting them from themselves left them..[/QUOTE]

Keith W wrote:

Also in my view this film is nothing more than child pornography and I always thought it was illegal to make child pornography be it simulated or otherwise.






I was thinking about this thread this morning, and this is one of the thoughts that ran through my mind..as well as the pedophiles.

I was also thinking of a response someone else made about children in "adult" roles..mentioning Jodie Foster and Brook Shields. Then I expanded that thought to think about 'squeaky clean" child stars who grew up with issues...drugs, alcohol, in and out of trouble..or dead young. And Jodie and Brooke, despite those adult rols, have turned out pretty normal, despite those roles.

I am still not in favor of a young actor portraying such a part, but these were just thoughts that ran through my head.

Having worked in film, it all depends how it was shot. If an adult touched a 12 year old in a sexual way it is a crime. I don't see how it could be otherwise. Consent can not be given. How they cut it together can make it look like something it is not. If there are body shots where you don't see her face then it might not be her.

As far as the topic goes, everything is taboo until someone makes it an issue. Lots of folks say that talking about stuff we don't like helps us deal with the reality of it.

If they made it look sexy they should be shamed and distributions should be made illegal.

koan wrote: Having worked in film, it all depends how it was shot. If an adult touched a 12 year old in a sexual way it is a crime. I don't see how it could be otherwise. Consent can not be given. How they cut it together can make it look like something it is not. If there are body shots where you don't see her face then it might not be her.

As far as the topic goes, everything is taboo until someone makes it an issue. Lots of folks say that talking about stuff we don't like helps us deal with the reality of it.

If they made it look sexy they should be shamed and distributions should be made illegal.


I was just wondering about that. In my mind I would think a scene like this would be child pornography.

Its not art ok,

its another director hell bent on rich and famous dreams.....

who would condone such filth, and try and pass it on as being a reality when in fact it should be looked upon as nothing more than wicked distaste were trying to rid the world of as opposed to giving it more attention?

Rape in real life is dispicable, & to put it on film & call it art, is just WRONG! :-5

(Especially not to mention, centered on a "12" year old "actress", as the victim!!!)

Some one said that they didn't know why they would even make a movie that depicted a child being raped. Well, it is all over the news and unfortunately it is something that we have to deal with.

There is a couple here in my home town that are on trial for raping their TWO DAY OLD daughter! That is outrageous! People are horrified at just the thought and don't want to believe that human beings are capable of these things. It's disturbing on So many levels, but we have to face the facts before we can change things.

I agree that the scene doesn't need to be gratuitous, just the suggestion is enough. The movie "A Time To kill" has been mentioned here. Just the sight of the girls broken body and her father's broken heart was statement enough.

There is no reason to believe that the rape is presented as art. Hollywood likes to cross boundaries into taboo areas. They also like to make money. That doesn't mean that the two are the sole reason for the film. There is no gain to pretending that bad things don't happen. The media focus on social problems is to try and focus attention on things that really happen and really happen all the time. I would give Robin Wright Penn the benefit of believing the film is about the crime of child rape and not trying to make it sexy. She's not typically a money hound in the industry.

Regardless, if they show an adult male inappropriately touching a body with Dakota Fanning's head intricately attached in the same frame they should be arrested.

I'd like to know the shot list. The molesting of a child to help awareness of child rape is not acceptable. Concept defeated. I've worked with child actors that were pushed into inappropriate things by their greedy parents. It turns the stomach. I do have a little faith in Robin Penn though. I'll probably watch it, if the story line justifies.

Koan

Your post is interesting. How do you know so much about the industry? I would like to hear more from you about this stuff.

I agree with your statements on Robin Wright Penn. From everything I've read about her, she is not *at all* part of the Hollywood system.

I still think she should have gotten an Oscar nod for "Forrest Gump". :-6

cherandbuster wrote: Koan

Your post is interesting. How do you know so much about the industry? I would like to hear more from you about this stuff.

I agree with your statements on Robin Wright Penn. From everything I've read about her, she is not *at all* part of the Hollywood system.

I still think she should have gotten an Oscar nod for "Forrest Gump". :-6


For better or worse, I've been in the film industry for about 15 years. Left it for a while and I'm writing scripts now.

This is an indie film. I'm greatly intrigued as to what makes it worth filming. I'll look for more info. Even nice people make mistakes though. If they abused Ms Fanning they should be charged. At this point, though, we're jumping to conclusion.

Another article made it sound like Wright Penn was producing this but she's just acting in it.

The writer/director, Deborah Kampmeier, also did a film called "Virgin" that is about date rape. Ebert gave it a pretty good review.

The rape in Hounddog is not the climax of the film. It is the start. It sets the scene for how a child copes with the bad hand that's been dealt to her. The story is about surviving not about raping.

The Butterfly Effect had child pornography as a main plot thread. They handled it brilliantly. I've noticed a recent trend in popular films to give a child rape backstory to intriguing female characters to make sense of their weirdness. It's summarized in about one sentence most of the time. "I was raped by my father." I would much rather see this backstory discarded as a convenient plot device and looked at with more seriousness. How do people who were raped as children feel when they see some crackpot character claiming to be like them? I think Hounddog is likely to create a far more accurate picture of what this really does to a person.

Koan

I find your perspective on this very similar to mine. I've enjoyed your input.

Incest and child rape are not uncommon, sadly. I shudder to say this, but given its occurence in society, I bet there are some members here who may have experienced it.

I'm not at all asking anyone to come forward with information, but rather stating the fact that it is not as rare as we would hope to think. :-1

cherandbuster wrote: Koan

I find your perspective on this very similar to mine. I've enjoyed your input.

Incest and child rape are not uncommon, sadly. I shudder to say this, but given its occurence in society, I bet there are some members here who may have experienced it.

I'm not at all asking anyone to come forward with information, but rather stating the fact that it is not as rare as we would hope to think. :-1


Yes, I'm glad we agree. The role of storyteller in society goes back to the beginning of written history. Film is not just a product of the material society, it is the means and method of the modern storyteller and the messages carry import as to the development of the human being and the soul. We need stories and they are not just a method of escape.

Wonder why her mother allowed her to be in this film?

"Fanning's mother, Joy, and her Hollywood agent, Cindy Osbrink, said that the movie is a possible Oscar contender for the preteen star."

http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?acti ... s&id=26234

According to this article, the rape scenes are realistic and Miss Fanning is required to appear nude or clad only in panties in a few scenes. Another exploitative mother living vicariously through her daughter. I hope Hollywood has the sense not to reward this sort of thing with an Oscar, no matter how good the acting may be. I think her mother and agent are dispicable.

from the same article:

Fanning's carefully choreographed rape scene has already been filmed, but the production that had been halted for a short while due to lack of funds over the controversial subject of child abuse, has successfully started again.


note "carefully choreographed". I'll believe it when I see it but if you look on IMDB and research the writer/director, it is believable that she has good intentions.

Perhaps the child deserves an Oscar. We won't know until we see it.

koan wrote: Perhaps the child deserves an Oscar. We won't know until we see it.
Does that mean you've decided to see it, Koan? Me, I'd watch anything with Dakota in it, she's very impressive.

koan wrote: from the same article:



note "carefully choreographed". I'll believe it when I see it but if you look on IMDB and research the writer/director, it is believable that she has good intentions.

Perhaps the child deserves an Oscar. We won't know until we see it.


Then again, being nude in "carefully choreographed" scenes isn't really acting, is it? I just don't see the pont of such graphic scenes involving a child. I think we can get the point without them spelling it out for us so vividly. This is exploitation of a serious subject and of a child in order to be "cutting edge" (and receive enormous amounts of free pub).

Henry

Now theres a classic....

:wah:

You want to ask a director what was on his mind when he made a film ask the director to that blasphemy.

Make sure you bring a psychiatrist too.

:wah: