ForumGarden

First of all, I am not "taking a break" from FG because of bds, e, or j.

My reasons go much deeper than that. If you don't believe me, I don't

much care. Did what e said about me hurt? Yes. If you get your jollies

knowing that e, fine. You said I flamed you in your intro thread. My

post in there was 20 letters long. You call that flaming? You, who come

from somewhere where you rant and rave? I'm surprised. I hate

to bring Peg's name into this, but look at the time stamps on the posts.

At 6:13 she welcomed you, at 6:33 she withdrew it. Well before my 20

letter post. Was I incorrect? Possibly. Not a nice thing to do? Probably

not. But YOUR post to me in that same thread was far worse than me

incorrectly answering someone's question. And after not very much time

had passed, the ol' Val self-esteem kicked in and I was okay, with the

support of some very, very dear people.



As to bds, he had at least a couple chances to make me question

myself. Early last Sunday morning, I sent him a pm. He didn't reply

to it, which means I'm well within the TOS posting it here: "You can't

fool ALL of the people ALL of the time, j-low." And 3 of these:

Show of hands: Who wouldn't have responded with at the very least,

one of these: oh-so convenient emoticons? Were I to go to another

board, I would have. So much for my angry and accusatory pm, eh?

Here is my post in his fussy eaters thread:



http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=28



Makes life and death decisions, this is too much for him? And what did he do? Apparently,

although I have no proof, he races over to post a photo of himself. To

try and throw me off the track. I posted in that thread, but removed it

upon a re-think and a wish to give someone benefit of the doubt. THEN

what does he do? He gets an idea somebody is on to him and flees, just

like j would have done. But, wait a minute, he had to fill those propane

tanks, right? First sending in his cavalry of one.



Felinessa, bless her heart, thought the writing style was very similar.

rap even questioned herself. For the rest of you, here are links to a

couple of "stories":

First, j's juggernaut.

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... ostcount=1



bds's lawnmower:



http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... ostcount=1



j turns down a chunk of money:

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5029



bds's fussy eaters:

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... ostcount=1



Again, show of hands, you tell me if those writing styles aren't VERY

similar.



IF bds is not j, IF he isn't even a j cohort, which I still doubt, he was

surely a person intent on creating trouble. He showed his true colors

afterwards. All I was doing was trying to avoid people here getting that

sick feeling in their gut when they were played for a fool. Some number

of you have seen the j apology thread, well you saw BR, myself, Snooze,

Clancy, we all accepted that apology. And we were kicked in the teeth

for our trouble. marie highlighted the wrong parts of that apology. But

perhaps she can be forgiven that. She has apparently been sucked right

in. marie, you say you weren't here for all that went on, well you were

here for the j twisting the knife in BR's back, and you call yourself BR's

friend, how could you? If by some chance you DID miss the knife, here

'tis again:



http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=55



That's your lovely friend you've been supporting, dear gullible one.



And j is called in here to corroborate something - oh GREAT choice, simply

BRILL. He lied his very first post back here. But no, when he posted

that snarky comment back on July 18th, he must have finally gotten

some grief from people who were fed up with it and him. Disappear for

6 weeks, let things die down, create a whole scenario conquering hero

return with your good swede buddy bds, and voila! In like Flynn. I wasn't

the only one to see and know his lie. In his apology he said something

to the effect of he wasn't a coward any more, well blimey, he sure took

off after his stab to BR, which I had to quote now didn't I? Am I

paranoid? Don't think so but if you do, have at it.



Forgive? Gee, while we're at it, let's just forgive ol' Charlie Manson, too.

I can hear all the gasps now. It's a matter of degree, yes. But heck,

he's probably sorry and I'm sure he won't do it again! :rolleyes: For me,

it's the same thing with j. A lot of you guys are like women who

marry a smooth talker and whoopsie! later find out he's a bigamist

who's absconded with all your funds. Nice. You can get sucked in,

I won't.



You guys think (marie in particular) that dear j was making amends in

BR's thread. No he wasn't, he was leaving a pile of you-know-what

in a lovely thread, kicking her when she was down. He wouldn't dare

do that if she was here. He burned his bridges with her and many of

the rest of us looooong ago.



The ignore function doesn't work for me. Right now, I would need to

put about half of the regular users on my ignore list. And I would

still have to see their user id's, and still have to see when someone

quoted them.



And here *I* will support a friend... there's been a lot of talk about

Snooze and her actions. Take another look at the fussy eaters thread.

(I know there's a link in here somewhere! ) She saw what I posted,

and one SINGLE emoticon from her. Remarkable restraint shown,

wouldn't you say?



I think I'm going to give up my sword and my shield. (Don't use a

pitchfork except for the obvious ) I'm pretty much done trying

to prevent pain around here. Will I take them up again? Maybe.

Then again, maybe not. You're on your own. If you want to support

mister Abe Lincoln was my ancestor, gotta pawn an amplifier to

buy some milk I have secret passages... you're on your own from

here on out.



And here's the nuking the KMart story. Just for fun:

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... ostcount=1



I told you this would be lengthy!

Welcome back Val

Val, we (I miss) you in here! You have to come back, ya hear, you just have to!

The place is not the same without you in it! Don't be pushed out by "anybody"!

Dr Zchivago wasnt that long. :rolleyes::-4

Nomad wrote: Dr Zchivago wasnt that long. :rolleyes::-4


Dr. Zchjvago didn't fly Jets, so. . . . ! :p

But you still think it's about Jives, Val, I can't see how Jives comes into this is the slightest.

There's this guy, the Swede. You have not one iota of reason to suspect, at this late stage, that he was aware of Jives before anastrophe's accusation. I concede that you believed he was Jives when you made your warnings. Given that you now accept he's not Jives - I take it you accept that? - what ground have you for accusing him of complicity or prior knowledge?

There's this woman, Elouise. You have not one iota of reason to suspect, at this late stage, that she was aware of anastrophe's accusation when she first came to ForumGarden. When you thought the Swede was Jives it would have been reasonable to assume that she was aware. Given my previous paragraph it's quite unreasonable to think it any longer. She has said it's not true and she's gone from "assumed guilty" to "known innocent" as far as being here at Jives' behest is concerned.

Jives is Satan personified, he's the devil incarnate, he will most certainly burn in the fires of hell for eternity - even if that's true, so what? The other two are totally unrelated to him, had no prior knowledge of him, they're entirely uncomplicit. They are not Jives' pawns. They are the victims of mistaken identity.

It's incumbent on you to undo the damage you caused them both by making your erroneous assumption in the first place. Whatever has happened since is a direct result of that assumption. It's not for either of them to undo this problem, because the problem isn't of their making.

As for Jives, he's a red herring, a bogeyman. He has nothing to do with any of this.

You can show comparative posts until you're blue in the face to explain why you became confused. None of that takes away from the fact that the confusion was yours, it wasn't designed or fostered by either the Swede or Elouise, and you need to clear up the consequence of your mistake. Yes, you were confused in good faith. That doesn't turn the table of responsibility onto the two newcomers, far from it.

Elouise gave her explanation of events. You called her a liar. She retaliated. Work out the trigger to that explosion. You still maintain she was a liar, by the look of things. I can see no reason at all to doubt her word.

These two newbies have no link to Jives in the slightest, beyond what you imagined. You need to rid yourself of the idea that they did, and reconsider events in that light.

Val, do what feels best for you.

Your friends miss you and respect your decisions.

M

Val, Bravo you tell it like it is and that is why I admire you so. You have my full support as well, always did, alway will. I miss you and hope you decide to stay the Garden is you sweetie I don't know how else to put it, not much grows when your not around..:-4

CARLA wrote: Val, Bravo you tell it like it is and that is why I admire you so. You have my full support as well, always did, alway will. I miss you and hope you decide to stay the Garden is you sweetie I don't know how else to put it, not much grows when your not around..:-4




I beg to differ. The crap I throw around should be more than sufficient to sprout a couple of buds.

:wah: :wah: OH sh** that is fact...!!



[QUOTE]I beg to differ. The crap I throw around should be more than sufficient to sprout a couple of buds.[/QUOTE]

:-1

I want you to do what you feel is right, and you posted your reasons why you feel this way. Your thoughts and feelings show your reasonings, which many of us understand. I do not want you to go though, that is my selfish comment.

blah blah blah

this is about Val

someone gag her

tie her up

and put her on ice

spot, there's considerable incivility in stating "you need to" to a person, rather than the far more civil - and legitimate - "i think you should" or "i think you ought to".



"you need to" is imperious, condescending, and frankly obnoxious.



which, of course, fits perfectly with your style, i'll give you that.



(since i like to have my cake and eat it too, here's how spot will reply: 'my dear boy, you are hardly in a position to advise others on good manners or proper online comportment. as you know, from mother england's bosom sprung forth the only truly civilized people on this god-forsaken ash heap of a planet - those who take their tea at four. the rest of you are savages. At minimum, acknowledge the penury of your bitter, witless soul and give credit where credit is due: to your superiors across the pond.')



(or not.)

valerie wrote: I think I'm going to give up my sword and my shield. (Don't use a pitchfork except for the obvious ) I'm pretty much done trying

to prevent pain around here. Will I take them up again? Maybe.

Then again, maybe not. You're on your own. If you want to support

mister Abe Lincoln was my ancestor, gotta pawn an amplifier to

buy some milk I have secret passages... you're on your own from

here on out.You rest, if you need to. We'll be here for you.

I am not a J. fan, so I don't read his threads. I have no idea what went on the other day but I do know that Val is a valued member of this community and many of us miss her.

anastrophe wrote: spot, there's considerable incivility in stating "you need to" to a person, rather than the far more civil - and legitimate - "i think you should" or "i think you ought to".



"you need to" is imperious, condescending, and frankly obnoxious.



which, of course, fits perfectly with your style, i'll give you that.



(since i like to have my cake and eat it too, here's how spot will reply: 'my dear boy, you are hardly in a position to advise others on good manners or proper online comportment. as you know, from mother england's bosom sprung forth the only truly civilized people on this god-forsaken ash heap of a planet - those who take their tea at four. the rest of you are savages. At minimum, acknowledge the penury of your bitter, witless soul and give credit where credit is due: to your superiors across the pond.')



(or not.)

anastrophe wrote: spot, there's considerable incivility in stating "you need to" to a person, rather than the far more civil - and legitimate - "i think you should" or "i think you ought to".I'm quite content with that alteration.

And the previous 426 words?

SnoozeControl wrote: You know what? Screw the clever word play. Valerie is a valued and loved member here and I want her back.As do I, Snooze. That's why I'm trying to help.

No one wanted her to leave. I'm glad she's back.

DITTO..!!

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by SnoozeControl

You know what? Screw the clever word play. Valerie is a valued and loved member here and I want her back.[/QUOTE]

SnoozeControl wrote: You know what? Screw the clever word play. Valerie is a valued and loved member here and I want her back.


I couldn't have put it better.

Heres the thing Val. Your better than some of the scum that flows through here. You know it, we know it, everyone knows it. That should be enough. It is for us. This forum has your initials engraved on it.



(I didnt mean your better than some of the scum...I meant your better than all of the scum. Your not scum is what I mean. Ok Im scum and your better than me ok ?)

Nomad wrote: Heres the thing Val. Your better than some of the scum that flows through here. You know it, we know it, everyone knows it. That should be enough. It is for us. This forum has your initials engraved on it. I'm fully aware that I'm not courting awards in any popularity stakes by trying to clarify matters in this thread, but I do hope you're not including either the Swede or his friend in that derogatory epithet "scum".

If anyone can indicate a good reason to believe that they did anything but walk blindly into this confusion then do please advance your reasoning. Otherwise give them a measure of civility on the grounds that they're neither of them the instigators of this brouhaha.

SnoozeControl wrote: You really need to drop this. Nomad didn't name names and for you to continue in this defense when neither BDS or E were mentioned is merely dragging this on longer than necessary. I'm politely asking you to stop.My dear girl, you are hardly in a position to advise others on good manners or proper online comportment. As you know, from Mother England's bosom sprang forth the only truly civilized people on this god-forsaken ash heap of a planet - those who take their tea at four. The rest of you are savages. At minimum, acknowledge the penury of your bitter, witless soul and give credit where credit is due: to your superiors across the pond.

spot wrote: I'm fully aware that I'm not courting awards in any popularity stakes by trying to clarify matters in this thread, but I do hope you're not including either the Swede or his friend in that derogatory epithet "scum".



If anyone can indicate a good reason to believe that they did anything but walk blindly into this confusion then do please advance your reasoning. Otherwise give them a measure of civility on the grounds that they're neither of them the instigators of this brouhaha.




you think too much

breeeeeaaaathe :-6

Alright, I have a little more energy for this.



Spot, because of the gesture you have recently made, I'm trying to

keep you in a warm place in my heart because I do reflect very fondly

on the actions you have taken.



I'm an old broad, I guess, and not as much of a wordsmith as some of

the rest of you. And totally NOT computer savvy, so forgive me if I

just go on as is comfortable for me, even if I can't QUITE keep up with some.



I don't know how to do all the fancy separated out quotes, but Spot,

I've got your post in another window, and I'll attempt to refer to it.



Just because YOU can't see how j comes into this, doesn't mean *I*

can't see how he does.



Did any of you happen to hear the story given when some lawyers want

to talk about "circumstantial evidence"? About the little child whose

mother asks him "Have you been eating the jam"? and the child says

"No, I haven't, mommie". Yet there is jam smeared all around the child's

mouth.



I have other "grounds" for feeling as I do. It might come down to

circumstantial evidence, yes. (See above). I'm sorry I failed in

posting something that would get people to understand me more fully...

I can only say I tried, and I'm still trying, a little bit.



You see, Spot, it's the Internet. I really have no way of knowing

anything. I can be content with that. e could have been sucked in

to bds's story just as well as others have been sucked in to j's. I'm

not confused, I didn't post those links to explain away my confusion,

far from it. It's just that I get pretty fatigued with hearing the old

saw that people weren't here they didn't know what was going on.



I don't know that the 2 aren't j's pawns, and with all due respect,

you don't "know" it either. We can't.



Once burnt, twice shy. I haven't seen where e said she didn't know

any of this beforehand, and it's still suspicious to me. It would be

even if she came here and said she didn't know. She seems to have

a very... shall we say... strong personality. She can take anything

the lowly "me" dishes out, I'm sure of it.



My father has a favorite saying "You've got to get up pretty early in

the morning to get up ahead of me". I really like that saying.



I still say, I did nothing that was so awful. And nothing that couldn't

have quite easily been stopped. By bds as well as e. Again, please

refer to my "tome" on this subject. I can give my opinion on things,

you don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it... but I can

still give it. It may be unfortunate that bds and e don't "know" me

or have a history to know that I say what I mean, I'm a good and

(mostly) gentle person. I still say, take my posts at their face value.

Four of the little laughing guys and a jives buddy where ya been keepin

yerself. Oh shoot, that is so AWFUL for somebody to have to read

something like that. Did bds come here and have the misfortune to

sound EXACTLY like someone else? Sorry, big guy. You can declare

someone in your ER and you can't take four smiley guys and a short

sentence? What's wrong with this picture?



Me, I would have said, Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about,

and gone on my merry way. What could a person like me do in that

instance? Absolutely nuthin'.



Can I understand sticking up for a friend? Why, sure. Ask just about

anybody here. I have done it, you guys know I have, you've seen me

in action. I just wouldn't have done it the way it was done here.

How far better an example to quietly come in and say this person

is not who you think it is, keep on posting and totally take the wind

out of my sails? Very easily done.



And gang, please don't take it that I'm out of here for good... I'm

not, never said I was. I'm just not a good fit for the garden right now,

I guess.



I tried to get Snooze to delete her thread, but it was too late.

I didn't want all this hoopla. I've quietly gone away before for short

stretches of time, and nobody noticed. I'm not mad at her, how could

you be mad at someone operating from a position of love?



Val

I hope you stay. It's nice to see you back.

Hey Val....you won't be offended if I flirt with your hubby again will ya? :yh_rotfl

I am to blame more than Jives. I asked him to come and clear up the issue of other members not being him. He would not have come here had I not asked and I thank him deeply for doing it.

I don't apologise for my actions. I saw a problem and a way to fix it. I'm not sure that the fix can be said to have turned out worse than the problem. It certainly wasn't better for BDS who, might I remind everyone, was the innocent victim of a misunderstanding.

Why is there always a call for banning? That is not a decision for members to make.

spot wrote: My dear girl, you are hardly in a position to advise others on good manners or proper online comportment. As you know, from Mother England's bosom sprang forth the only truly civilized people on this god-forsaken ash heap of a planet - those who take their tea at four. The rest of you are savages. At minimum, acknowledge the penury of your bitter, witless soul and give credit where credit is due: to your superiors across the pond.


if i may say so, that is absolutely brilliant, some of the finest writing i believe you've ever done here spot, bravo. my regard for you has risen dramatically - nay, it has lept the full breadth and measure of my miserly soul into the thin, glistening air a hundred miles above this meager orb, where angels play and dreams dance upon their shoulders.

Far Rider wrote: Boy we disagree a lot Koan.

Lifes not fair, you ever been kicked by a horse? Im sure he did it on purpose with malice afore(foot)thought.

Sometimes we gotta take out lumps.


But I like disagreeing with you, Far.

I hesitate to ask what you are taking lumps out of.



As to the pitchfork crowd:

It reminds me of Horton's Whos on the little dust speck yelling "We're here! We're here!" hoping that the villagers won't boil them. Except reverse the motives.

If they find that last child to "YIP" they might get a burning after all.

Far Rider wrote: Oh I tried to correct that typo but that dang horse kept kickin me.


S'okay, ponyboy

Attached files

Far Rider wrote: .... girls!


great, ain't they?

Attached files

Valerie, it was so good to see your name on the front page when I woke up this morning...



:-4 :yh_hugs

I've read a number of threads like this on various forums when someone has apparently offended someone else and they've had a quarrel, and I can never work out what's going on despite the rehash.

Is it possible for someone to tell me who said what to whom and why it was offensive in a couple of very short paragraphs? Is it that someone has been accused of having two identities? I can never understand why people get upset about the opinions of other people who they can quite easily choose not to meet and not to have in their lives.

I've asked this question in similar situations on other forums and never yet got a straight answer, if I get an answer at all.

I support Valerie 150 % maybe some people would be interested to know that Captain bullshit has been telling the same lies over at a sci fi forum .

who is captain bullshit, and isn't one of the points of forums like this that you can re-invent yourself and present yourself as someone you're not without any being the wiser? How would anyone know they're lies or not? The long posts from people telling stories about themselves and how noble they are strike me as self-indulgent and probably wishful thinking, but who cares?

Tigerlily wrote: who is captain bullshit, and isn't one of the points of forums like this that you can re-invent yourself and present yourself as someone you're not without any being the wiser? How would anyone know they're lies or not? The long posts from people telling stories about themselves and how noble they are strike me as self-indulgent and probably wishful thinking, but who cares?
We get close here. Lies hurt when you're close.



*added* and none of that would have mattered had he not turned so viscious.