Ten Commandments applied
Ten Commandments applied
Which of the Ten Commandments, if followed, would result in harm to mankind?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Ten Commandments applied
Clint wrote: Which of the Ten Commandments, if followed, would result in harm to mankind?
O.K. I'm not religious but I am going to stick my oar in.
"You shall have no other gods before me."
There is either one god for all or there are more than one. So why do monotheistic religons fight about their god being the right one. If there is only one and both believe it why does itb matter if one is called god, another allah, and some don't mention him by name at all.
"You shall not make for yourself an idol…You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God!"
That's one of the causes of conflict between catholic and protestant. Should you kneel down before an idol or not? To worship an image or pray to a saint how many millions died arguing about that one.
"You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His name."
Ah Blasphemy. Fine, if you believe don't take his name in vain but you have no right to punish those who don't believe as you do, even if you do think you have a god given right.
maybe the problem is not the ten commandments themselves but that many christians take the bible too literally and ignore christ's teaching.:sneaky:
O.K. I'm not religious but I am going to stick my oar in.
"You shall have no other gods before me."
There is either one god for all or there are more than one. So why do monotheistic religons fight about their god being the right one. If there is only one and both believe it why does itb matter if one is called god, another allah, and some don't mention him by name at all.
"You shall not make for yourself an idol…You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God!"
That's one of the causes of conflict between catholic and protestant. Should you kneel down before an idol or not? To worship an image or pray to a saint how many millions died arguing about that one.
"You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His name."
Ah Blasphemy. Fine, if you believe don't take his name in vain but you have no right to punish those who don't believe as you do, even if you do think you have a god given right.
maybe the problem is not the ten commandments themselves but that many christians take the bible too literally and ignore christ's teaching.:sneaky:
Ten Commandments applied
AMEN.
And don't forget those who will go to outrageous ends to explain how the scriptures were really allegorical on this page but must be taken literally on the next! :sneaky:
And don't forget those who will go to outrageous ends to explain how the scriptures were really allegorical on this page but must be taken literally on the next! :sneaky:
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Ten Commandments applied
gmc wrote: O.K. I'm not religious but I am going to stick my oar in.
"You shall have no other gods before me."
There is either one god for all or there are more than one. So why do monotheistic religons fight about their god being the right one. If there is only one and both believe it why does itb matter if one is called god, another allah, and some don't mention him by name at all.
"You shall not make for yourself an idol…You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God!"
That's one of the causes of conflict between catholic and protestant. Should you kneel down before an idol or not? To worship an image or pray to a saint how many millions died arguing about that one.
"You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His name."
Ah Blasphemy. Fine, if you believe don't take his name in vain but you have no right to punish those who don't believe as you do, even if you do think you have a god given right.
maybe the problem is not the ten commandments themselves but that many christians take the bible too literally and ignore christ's teaching.:sneaky:
I don't think any commandment, if followed, would harm mankind...not one.
As per gmc 1. God by any other name would smell as sweet, be as sweet, whatever
2. Many people don't understand that a statue of Mary or Joseph, those are Christ's family, not dreaded icons of worship. Or a statue of the Saint of the churche's name is not an icon but history. Money is probably the worst idol of all that we worship. The statues are small in comparison and they are not to my knowledge knelt to. Catholics kneel in church, that's it, a custom, harmless. I love kneeling when I am talking with God.
3. As to swearing and cursing, few people I know don't. Those who don't should keep their mouths shut, keep on keeping it clean.
:)
"You shall have no other gods before me."
There is either one god for all or there are more than one. So why do monotheistic religons fight about their god being the right one. If there is only one and both believe it why does itb matter if one is called god, another allah, and some don't mention him by name at all.
"You shall not make for yourself an idol…You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God!"
That's one of the causes of conflict between catholic and protestant. Should you kneel down before an idol or not? To worship an image or pray to a saint how many millions died arguing about that one.
"You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His name."
Ah Blasphemy. Fine, if you believe don't take his name in vain but you have no right to punish those who don't believe as you do, even if you do think you have a god given right.
maybe the problem is not the ten commandments themselves but that many christians take the bible too literally and ignore christ's teaching.:sneaky:
I don't think any commandment, if followed, would harm mankind...not one.
As per gmc 1. God by any other name would smell as sweet, be as sweet, whatever
2. Many people don't understand that a statue of Mary or Joseph, those are Christ's family, not dreaded icons of worship. Or a statue of the Saint of the churche's name is not an icon but history. Money is probably the worst idol of all that we worship. The statues are small in comparison and they are not to my knowledge knelt to. Catholics kneel in church, that's it, a custom, harmless. I love kneeling when I am talking with God.
3. As to swearing and cursing, few people I know don't. Those who don't should keep their mouths shut, keep on keeping it clean.
:)
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Ten Commandments applied
posted by weber
Many people don't understand that a statue of Mary or Joseph, those are Christ's family, not dreaded icons of worship. Or a statue of the Saint of the churche's name is not an icon but history. Money is probably the worst idol of all that we worship. The statues are small in comparison and they are not to my knowledge knelt to. Catholics kneel in church, that's it, a custom, harmless. I love kneeling when I am talking with God.
If you pray to a statue or a holy relic then you are an idolator however you care to rationalise it.
idol noun 1 an image or symbol, especially an image of a god, used as an object of worship. 2 an object of excessive love, honour or devotion.
ETYMOLOGY: 14c: from Latin idolum, from Greek eidolon.
idolater and (now rare) idolatress noun 1 someone who worships idols. 2 someone who is a passionate and devoted admirer of someone or something.
ETYMOLOGY: 14c as idolatrer: see idolatry.
Personally I don't have a problem with any of it but I know many who do and find it objectionable and use it as an excuse for bigotry against other faiths, milliions died fighting about it.
I suppose it's not the commandment itself that causes peroblems but the willingness if religious people to fight about it. It's not following the commandments that is a problem t's insisting evrybody agrees with your interpretation.
Pagans usd to call the christian god the selfish god because he wanted everything
In case you're wondering I am not a religious person so don't take offence as none is intended.
Many people don't understand that a statue of Mary or Joseph, those are Christ's family, not dreaded icons of worship. Or a statue of the Saint of the churche's name is not an icon but history. Money is probably the worst idol of all that we worship. The statues are small in comparison and they are not to my knowledge knelt to. Catholics kneel in church, that's it, a custom, harmless. I love kneeling when I am talking with God.
If you pray to a statue or a holy relic then you are an idolator however you care to rationalise it.
idol noun 1 an image or symbol, especially an image of a god, used as an object of worship. 2 an object of excessive love, honour or devotion.
ETYMOLOGY: 14c: from Latin idolum, from Greek eidolon.
idolater and (now rare) idolatress noun 1 someone who worships idols. 2 someone who is a passionate and devoted admirer of someone or something.
ETYMOLOGY: 14c as idolatrer: see idolatry.
Personally I don't have a problem with any of it but I know many who do and find it objectionable and use it as an excuse for bigotry against other faiths, milliions died fighting about it.
I suppose it's not the commandment itself that causes peroblems but the willingness if religious people to fight about it. It's not following the commandments that is a problem t's insisting evrybody agrees with your interpretation.
Pagans usd to call the christian god the selfish god because he wanted everything
In case you're wondering I am not a religious person so don't take offence as none is intended.
Ten Commandments applied
There's actually two complete sets of Ten Commandments in the bible, both in Exodus. The less familiar one is this (I quite like them and they seem well worth following), in Chapter 34, and it's listed (as are the more commonly known ones) after Moses "hewed two tables of stone like unto the first":1. Thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice; and thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
4. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
6. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; [not to mix sacrificial blood with leavened bread]
8. neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning. [clean up the fat of the offerings]
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
4. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
6. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; [not to mix sacrificial blood with leavened bread]
8. neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning. [clean up the fat of the offerings]
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Ten Commandments applied
ArnoldLayne wrote: Isnt jealousy a deadly sin ?
Spot I cant say I really understand some of them. Do you fancy a bit of explaining to this old dufferDeadly sins aren't biblical, they're either dogmatic or poetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_Decalogue discusses that second set of commandments and boils down the wording to the essentials quite well.
Spot I cant say I really understand some of them. Do you fancy a bit of explaining to this old dufferDeadly sins aren't biblical, they're either dogmatic or poetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_Decalogue discusses that second set of commandments and boils down the wording to the essentials quite well.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Ten Commandments applied
ArnoldLayne wrote: Put to death for kindling a fire on the 7th day seems a little excessive to me
The commandments (unlike a lot of Leviticus) don't prescribe penalties for breaking them, they just tell you how to behave well and abide by the contract agreed between the people and God.
1 is not to let your sons get interested in the local girls or they'll stray from their religion. Good sense if you want to maintain the purity of the faith.
2 is the idol thing. God's against it so you have to be as well.
3 is re-enacting the Exodus by not eating fluffy bread for a week.
4 is to sacrifice all the first-born that are males. If it's a goat you can swap it for a sheep if you like. If it's your own first son then you can't kill him, you have to swap him for a suitable number and quality of animals.
5 is taking the Sabbath off even if it's bang in the middle of the busy time on the farm. No ifs or buts.
6 guarantees that nobody will even want to take whatever you claim as your land if you gather all of the men of all ages three times a year into the presence of God.
7 is a godly shudder at fluffy bread getting blood mixed into it.
8 is a demand that the symbolic feast celebrating the death of all the eldest sons of Egypt should be completely cleaned up before morning.
9 is harvest-home, you'll have seen that each year in the parish church, we still do it.
10 is another godly shudder at an abominable way of cooking young goats, and you're never ever to do it.
The commandments (unlike a lot of Leviticus) don't prescribe penalties for breaking them, they just tell you how to behave well and abide by the contract agreed between the people and God.
1 is not to let your sons get interested in the local girls or they'll stray from their religion. Good sense if you want to maintain the purity of the faith.
2 is the idol thing. God's against it so you have to be as well.
3 is re-enacting the Exodus by not eating fluffy bread for a week.
4 is to sacrifice all the first-born that are males. If it's a goat you can swap it for a sheep if you like. If it's your own first son then you can't kill him, you have to swap him for a suitable number and quality of animals.
5 is taking the Sabbath off even if it's bang in the middle of the busy time on the farm. No ifs or buts.
6 guarantees that nobody will even want to take whatever you claim as your land if you gather all of the men of all ages three times a year into the presence of God.
7 is a godly shudder at fluffy bread getting blood mixed into it.
8 is a demand that the symbolic feast celebrating the death of all the eldest sons of Egypt should be completely cleaned up before morning.
9 is harvest-home, you'll have seen that each year in the parish church, we still do it.
10 is another godly shudder at an abominable way of cooking young goats, and you're never ever to do it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Ten Commandments applied
isn't it true that we have weekends off from work because the sabbath was widely held until the last few hundred years?
Ten Commandments applied
ArnoldLayne wrote: Spot, far be it from me to wrench from your clutches, the pedant of the year award but you said that these commandments were all "well worth following".
I do hope you didnt swap your first born for a flock or a herd and do you really think the Lord would mind if you ate a slice of meat with your fluffly bread
they were advantageous for the people at that time ...nowadays...not so much, no.
I do hope you didnt swap your first born for a flock or a herd and do you really think the Lord would mind if you ate a slice of meat with your fluffly bread
they were advantageous for the people at that time ...nowadays...not so much, no.
Ten Commandments applied
ArnoldLayne wrote: Spot, far be it from me to wrench from your clutches, the pedant of the year award but you said that these commandments were all "well worth following".
I do hope you didnt swap your first born for a flock or a herd and do you really think the Lord would mind if you ate a slice of meat with your fluffly breadThat was the deal, though - don't you see? God and the people agreed that if they did this, he'd do that. The tablets of stone recorded the contract. The general opinion is that the confederated tribes of Israel brought different versions of their folk-memory of history and myth into a single narrative but didn't eliminate, they put them side by side and threaded them together into a powerful whole. Which is why we have two different sets of commandments in Exodus.
So - is the contract still binding? Was it made with just those tribes or with us as well? If it was made with the tribes, should we, despite not being parties to the contract, still try to stick to the moral grounding which informed to contract itself?
I don't regard myself as bound by the contract at all, so a rare beef sandwich often figures in my lunchtime gormandising. If I agree to a contract with God I want a say in the terms myself.
I do hope you didnt swap your first born for a flock or a herd and do you really think the Lord would mind if you ate a slice of meat with your fluffly breadThat was the deal, though - don't you see? God and the people agreed that if they did this, he'd do that. The tablets of stone recorded the contract. The general opinion is that the confederated tribes of Israel brought different versions of their folk-memory of history and myth into a single narrative but didn't eliminate, they put them side by side and threaded them together into a powerful whole. Which is why we have two different sets of commandments in Exodus.
So - is the contract still binding? Was it made with just those tribes or with us as well? If it was made with the tribes, should we, despite not being parties to the contract, still try to stick to the moral grounding which informed to contract itself?
I don't regard myself as bound by the contract at all, so a rare beef sandwich often figures in my lunchtime gormandising. If I agree to a contract with God I want a say in the terms myself.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Ten Commandments applied
Pinky wrote: Yeah, me too!
I don't think 'God' would be so unreasonable as to ignore the fact that life today is very different to life then.
All rules, contracts and agreements need to be reviewed now and again to remain effective.
correct.
when the reasons behind a law become obsolete then it is meaningless ritual.
I don't think 'God' would be so unreasonable as to ignore the fact that life today is very different to life then.
All rules, contracts and agreements need to be reviewed now and again to remain effective.
correct.
when the reasons behind a law become obsolete then it is meaningless ritual.
Ten Commandments applied
ARgi wrote: correct.
when the reasons behind a law become obsolete then it is meaningless ritual.
In the view of an infinite God, which of the Ten Commandments would be obsolete?
when the reasons behind a law become obsolete then it is meaningless ritual.
In the view of an infinite God, which of the Ten Commandments would be obsolete?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Accountable
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Ten Commandments applied
gmc wrote: [...]
maybe the problem is not the ten commandments themselves but that many christians take the bible too literally and ignore christ's teaching.:sneaky:So you agree with what I assume is Clint's premise: that there is no harm in following the Ten Commandments.
maybe the problem is not the ten commandments themselves but that many christians take the bible too literally and ignore christ's teaching.:sneaky:So you agree with what I assume is Clint's premise: that there is no harm in following the Ten Commandments.
Ten Commandments applied
Now I could be in trouble. I happen to like the odd ham sandwich as well. Not only that but I wear clothing made of more than one fibre.
Now, where did I put that shovel? LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
Now, where did I put that shovel? LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
Ten Commandments applied
It is my understanding that the Ten Commandments were borrowed from another tribe and revised to suit the Hebrew situation. That being said, I do think that in general they can still apply. The first couple, though, being of a religious nature will not necessarily apply in are situations.
The remainder can generally apply but it is my belief that the law and morality are relative to time, culture, circumstances etc. They are a good basis but must at times in particular situations be ignored.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The remainder can generally apply but it is my belief that the law and morality are relative to time, culture, circumstances etc. They are a good basis but must at times in particular situations be ignored.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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Ten Commandments applied
Ted wrote: It is my understanding that the Ten Commandments were borrowed from another tribe and revised to suit the Hebrew situation. That being said, I do think that in general they can still apply. The first couple, though, being of a religious nature will not necessarily apply in are situations.
The remainder can generally apply but it is my belief that the law and morality are relative to time, culture, circumstances etc. They are a good basis but must at times in particular situations be ignored.
Shalom
Ted:-6I'm not even sure I really want to get into this, but please give some situations where it's okay to bend morality.
The remainder can generally apply but it is my belief that the law and morality are relative to time, culture, circumstances etc. They are a good basis but must at times in particular situations be ignored.
Shalom
Ted:-6I'm not even sure I really want to get into this, but please give some situations where it's okay to bend morality.
Ten Commandments applied
Accountable:-6
I can give you many examples but will limit myself to one. If you wish more I can give them.
This is not an unreasonable scenario in the day of terrorism. You and your family are trapped in your house holding off the terrorists with some weapons. You know that ultimately they will prevail. At that point they will torture and rape your family in front of your eyes before they deal with you.
The very hard question. What do you do? Do you allow your family to be so horribly abused or do you take their lives swiftly and painlessly and then do the same to yourself? Not unlike Massada. I personally would hope never to be in that situation.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I can give you many examples but will limit myself to one. If you wish more I can give them.
This is not an unreasonable scenario in the day of terrorism. You and your family are trapped in your house holding off the terrorists with some weapons. You know that ultimately they will prevail. At that point they will torture and rape your family in front of your eyes before they deal with you.
The very hard question. What do you do? Do you allow your family to be so horribly abused or do you take their lives swiftly and painlessly and then do the same to yourself? Not unlike Massada. I personally would hope never to be in that situation.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Ten Commandments applied
Ted wrote: Accountable:-6
I can give you many examples but will limit myself to one. If you wish more I can give them.
This is not an unreasonable scenario in the day of terrorism. You and your family are trapped in your house holding off the terrorists with some weapons. You know that ultimately they will prevail. At that point they will torture and rape your family in front of your eyes before they deal with you.
The very hard question. What do you do? Do you allow your family to be so horribly abused or do you take their lives swiftly and painlessly and then do the same to yourself? Not unlike Massada. I personally would hope never to be in that situation.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Excuse me for butting in Ted
but I can't resist. You posted this before and I passed it by. What if, and I do know it is hypothetical, but what if someone had just quietly done away with his/her family and along came an earthquake that opened up the earth and swallowed the bad guys and left the someone there alone and free but without their family. This was just a scenario that went through my head when I read your post. I had to express that thought this time. Just a thought.
I guess this thought for me would about as close to faith as I can get.
I can give you many examples but will limit myself to one. If you wish more I can give them.
This is not an unreasonable scenario in the day of terrorism. You and your family are trapped in your house holding off the terrorists with some weapons. You know that ultimately they will prevail. At that point they will torture and rape your family in front of your eyes before they deal with you.
The very hard question. What do you do? Do you allow your family to be so horribly abused or do you take their lives swiftly and painlessly and then do the same to yourself? Not unlike Massada. I personally would hope never to be in that situation.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Excuse me for butting in Ted
but I can't resist. You posted this before and I passed it by. What if, and I do know it is hypothetical, but what if someone had just quietly done away with his/her family and along came an earthquake that opened up the earth and swallowed the bad guys and left the someone there alone and free but without their family. This was just a scenario that went through my head when I read your post. I had to express that thought this time. Just a thought.
I guess this thought for me would about as close to faith as I can get.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Ten Commandments applied
weber:-6
That is certainly a valid thought. What crosses my mind though, is what are the chances of that happening compared to the torture dealth of your family and yourself. Please note, I said that I would hope I would never be faced with such a situation. There are those who have been. Look at the Iraqi reports on what a small group of marines did to an innocent Iraqi family and these were supposed to be civilized human being, these soldiers!
And if the earthquake doesn't happen?
The same kind of thing can be seen in this scenario, which does happen on a regular basis even here in Canada. A man who steals from the local store in order to feed his destitute family. This happens often and I would not want to be the judge. In some provinces if he tried it the honest way someone would be seriously ill or dead before the red tape got through. It happens in war as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
That is certainly a valid thought. What crosses my mind though, is what are the chances of that happening compared to the torture dealth of your family and yourself. Please note, I said that I would hope I would never be faced with such a situation. There are those who have been. Look at the Iraqi reports on what a small group of marines did to an innocent Iraqi family and these were supposed to be civilized human being, these soldiers!
And if the earthquake doesn't happen?
The same kind of thing can be seen in this scenario, which does happen on a regular basis even here in Canada. A man who steals from the local store in order to feed his destitute family. This happens often and I would not want to be the judge. In some provinces if he tried it the honest way someone would be seriously ill or dead before the red tape got through. It happens in war as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Ten Commandments applied
ARNOLD said, "Put to death for kindling a fire on the 7th day seems a little excessive to me." Me, too. And how do we know which day the "sabbath" might be? And what's the point of remembering it and keeping it holy, anyway? Religious people can go to church any old day and "sabbaths" aren't exactly reserved for churchy things.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Ten Commandments applied
Lulu:-6
Actually there are the ten basic laws of the Hebrew folks and over time they developed an additional 600+ rules to be followed in order to make the society run smoothly and within the bounds of what they considered the sacred. Some of the extras were fairly wild in some ways: i.e. sinful to wear clothing made of more than one kind of fibre at the same time, stone prostitutes and yet one could have dozens of concubines, stone recalcitrant children.
The idea of the 7th day being holy, which by the way simply means set appart or different is a rather valuable physical and mental tool. Everyone needs a break at least once a week. God took a break as the story goes and recognized that we should as well. I'm sure, if you so believe, that God really does not care on what day you take a break, just take one.
Shalom
Ted:-6
PS Why did I not know about that bad kids law when I was raising mine. Damn. LOL
Actually there are the ten basic laws of the Hebrew folks and over time they developed an additional 600+ rules to be followed in order to make the society run smoothly and within the bounds of what they considered the sacred. Some of the extras were fairly wild in some ways: i.e. sinful to wear clothing made of more than one kind of fibre at the same time, stone prostitutes and yet one could have dozens of concubines, stone recalcitrant children.
The idea of the 7th day being holy, which by the way simply means set appart or different is a rather valuable physical and mental tool. Everyone needs a break at least once a week. God took a break as the story goes and recognized that we should as well. I'm sure, if you so believe, that God really does not care on what day you take a break, just take one.
Shalom
Ted:-6
PS Why did I not know about that bad kids law when I was raising mine. Damn. LOL
Ten Commandments applied
Ted wrote: weber:-6
That is certainly a valid thought. What crosses my mind though, is what are the chances of that happening compared to the torture dealth of your family and yourself. Please note, I said that I would hope I would never be faced with such a situation. There are those who have been. Look at the Iraqi reports on what a small group of marines did to an innocent Iraqi family and these were supposed to be civilized human being, these soldiers!
And if the earthquake doesn't happen?
The same kind of thing can be seen in this scenario, which does happen on a regular basis even here in Canada. A man who steals from the local store in order to feed his destitute family. This happens often and I would not want to be the judge. In some provinces if he tried it the honest way someone would be seriously ill or dead before the red tape got through. It happens in war as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I must have been reading that in the wrong context Ted. I wasn't thinking about judging whatever anyone did in a position like that. I don't like judging people period, not at all. I was thinking of how a person would feel if they were left alone free but no family. I don't like judging people because people are their own worst judges and I don't want to make it worse.
That is certainly a valid thought. What crosses my mind though, is what are the chances of that happening compared to the torture dealth of your family and yourself. Please note, I said that I would hope I would never be faced with such a situation. There are those who have been. Look at the Iraqi reports on what a small group of marines did to an innocent Iraqi family and these were supposed to be civilized human being, these soldiers!
And if the earthquake doesn't happen?
The same kind of thing can be seen in this scenario, which does happen on a regular basis even here in Canada. A man who steals from the local store in order to feed his destitute family. This happens often and I would not want to be the judge. In some provinces if he tried it the honest way someone would be seriously ill or dead before the red tape got through. It happens in war as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I must have been reading that in the wrong context Ted. I wasn't thinking about judging whatever anyone did in a position like that. I don't like judging people period, not at all. I was thinking of how a person would feel if they were left alone free but no family. I don't like judging people because people are their own worst judges and I don't want to make it worse.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Ten Commandments applied
weber:-6
No offense taken.
I like the old First Nations saying "Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins.
I would not want to be in that position, either one for that matter.
What I'm really trying to point out is that no matter the law or how carefully it is crafted there are situations where it does not fit and common sense must indeed take over. That is what happened at Massada in ancient Jewish history. They were faced with that very situation, the first one, and they exercised their common sense knowing that death for their families was better than torture followed by death.
Shalom
Ted:-6
No offense taken.
I like the old First Nations saying "Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins.
I would not want to be in that position, either one for that matter.
What I'm really trying to point out is that no matter the law or how carefully it is crafted there are situations where it does not fit and common sense must indeed take over. That is what happened at Massada in ancient Jewish history. They were faced with that very situation, the first one, and they exercised their common sense knowing that death for their families was better than torture followed by death.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am
Ten Commandments applied
spot wrote: There's actually two complete sets of Ten Commandments in the bible, both in Exodus. The less familiar one is this (I quite like them and they seem well worth following), in Chapter 34, and it's listed (as are the more commonly known ones) after Moses "hewed two tables of stone like unto the first":1. Thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice; and thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
4. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
6. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; [not to mix sacrificial blood with leavened bread]
8. neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning. [clean up the fat of the offerings]
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
This sounds kosher...................
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
4. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
6. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; [not to mix sacrificial blood with leavened bread]
8. neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning. [clean up the fat of the offerings]
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
This sounds kosher...................
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Ten Commandments applied
Ted wrote: Accountable:-6
I can give you many examples but will limit myself to one. If you wish more I can give them.
This is not an unreasonable scenario in the day of terrorism. You and your family are trapped in your house holding off the terrorists with some weapons. You know that ultimately they will prevail. At that point they will torture and rape your family in front of your eyes before they deal with you.
The very hard question. What do you do? Do you allow your family to be so horribly abused or do you take their lives swiftly and painlessly and then do the same to yourself? Not unlike Massada. I personally would hope never to be in that situation.
Shalom
Ted:-6That's the situation in which many Japanese families found themselves ... when the Americans invaded. They killed themselves rather than be tortured and raped by their enemy.
Try as I might, I can't force my imagination to construct such a hopeless scenario. I'll not be killing my family, thankyouverymuch.
I can give you many examples but will limit myself to one. If you wish more I can give them.
This is not an unreasonable scenario in the day of terrorism. You and your family are trapped in your house holding off the terrorists with some weapons. You know that ultimately they will prevail. At that point they will torture and rape your family in front of your eyes before they deal with you.
The very hard question. What do you do? Do you allow your family to be so horribly abused or do you take their lives swiftly and painlessly and then do the same to yourself? Not unlike Massada. I personally would hope never to be in that situation.
Shalom
Ted:-6That's the situation in which many Japanese families found themselves ... when the Americans invaded. They killed themselves rather than be tortured and raped by their enemy.
Try as I might, I can't force my imagination to construct such a hopeless scenario. I'll not be killing my family, thankyouverymuch.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Ten Commandments applied
Ted wrote: The same kind of thing can be seen in this scenario, which does happen on a regular basis even here in Canada. A man who steals from the local store in order to feed his destitute family. This happens often and I would not want to be the judge. In some provinces if he tried it the honest way someone would be seriously ill or dead before the red tape got through. It happens in war as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6There are other ways to eat other than stealing or gov't assistance, though I understand in today's society it is more desirable to do things expediently rather than right. Nevertheless, a thief is a thief. Should the shopkeeper be forced to give up that which feeds his own family simply because a desparate person wants it?
This is a rhetorical question. My apologies for the sidetrack.
Shalom
Ted:-6There are other ways to eat other than stealing or gov't assistance, though I understand in today's society it is more desirable to do things expediently rather than right. Nevertheless, a thief is a thief. Should the shopkeeper be forced to give up that which feeds his own family simply because a desparate person wants it?
This is a rhetorical question. My apologies for the sidetrack.
Ten Commandments applied
Accountable:-6
I don't disagree with what you say. I have no idea what it is like in Britain but here in Canada we have families that are in fact destitute not just living in poverty. We have food banks but the lines are getting ever longer and longer and they run out of food at times. Then there is the problem of getting there especially in the larger cities.
We have here what could be called legislated poverty.
What is needed is a radical new way of doing things not only here but world wide. We need to find a much better way to distribute the resources of the planet. I don't mean in the sense of robbing the rich to feed the poor but when one sees CEOs taking home 200 000 000 a year this becomes absurd. No one needs this kind of money. In Canada Conrad Black is a good example. The courts severely restricted his monthly income to 20 000. Another judge has since recinded that order. My heavens I don't know how one could exist on only 20 000 per month. That's terrible.
We live in a world where greed seems to be the operative word.
If it is that bad here what is it like in Darfur or other countries in Africa. We do need a radical change and that was the message of Jesus some 2000 years ago. Nothing has changed. The only thing we seem to learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I don't disagree with what you say. I have no idea what it is like in Britain but here in Canada we have families that are in fact destitute not just living in poverty. We have food banks but the lines are getting ever longer and longer and they run out of food at times. Then there is the problem of getting there especially in the larger cities.
We have here what could be called legislated poverty.
What is needed is a radical new way of doing things not only here but world wide. We need to find a much better way to distribute the resources of the planet. I don't mean in the sense of robbing the rich to feed the poor but when one sees CEOs taking home 200 000 000 a year this becomes absurd. No one needs this kind of money. In Canada Conrad Black is a good example. The courts severely restricted his monthly income to 20 000. Another judge has since recinded that order. My heavens I don't know how one could exist on only 20 000 per month. That's terrible.
We live in a world where greed seems to be the operative word.
If it is that bad here what is it like in Darfur or other countries in Africa. We do need a radical change and that was the message of Jesus some 2000 years ago. Nothing has changed. The only thing we seem to learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Ten Commandments applied
Ted, I quoted your post and started a new thread HERE. Hope you don't mind.
Ten Commandments applied
accountable:-6
Not at all. Sounds like a good idea to me. Thanks.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Not at all. Sounds like a good idea to me. Thanks.
Shalom
Ted:-6