ForumGarden

In light of recent events i thought we could discuss how members feel about this subject.

I personally think its great for us to be able to help other members in need & happy to contribute where i can although it will never be large amounts of cash, several things concern me, first im not a fan of 'private' clubs but do feel it should be kept off the main board, then again this means only supporting members would have access & that concerns me as im sure many members who are not supporting would wish to contribute, problem 2 - how do we decide who's need is greater? Ive lots of other questions too, your thoughts please

My thoughts are that this is completely unnecessary.

My other thoughts remain with me.

i respect your opinion red but im sure many members will feel the thread is necessary myself included or i wouldent have posted it

It's easy. You know it's there. Don't click. The same way I don't bother clicking on all the tacky sex threads. Is that too hard?



What I see here are people whining because they couldn't or wouldn't give money to someone and they feel bad because some of us did. Those of us who gave money are not any better that those who didn't. If anyone feels bad about it then I would suggest that's their own problem. I couldn't care less who donated. It means nothing to me either way. But what I do care about is childish stuff like this big issue that's been made of people doing good. I've seen some people's true colors and they aren't pretty.

First of all, if this matter is important to a member I care about, then to me it is worth posting

It's worth discussing, isn't it? When we see our fellow members in need, it breaks our hearts.

As far as keeping it off of the main board, I don't like the idea of supporting members being the only ones able to see it.

We now have the new Forum Garden groups that TStone set up, but they are only for supporting members as well. :-3

I'd be interested to hear what my other friends in the Garden have to say.

BCup

Your heart is in the right place :-4

I think this thread is necessary, yes it's wonderful that we have helped people out. What worries me is that guests are reading all about our generosity, it needs to be more discreet.

What I say below bears no relevance to Jimbo, Suzy, BR, Mom or anyone else who has recieved help or gifts, they are members we have grown to love and respect.

I just think we all need to be more aware of the levels some people will sink to. People who are willing to 'scam' people out of money will do so over a long period of time, they only need to join up here, be a member for a few months, win our trust and then announce they have a 'problem'. There are the obvious scammers like 'Rent help needed', and there are the more sophisticated ones that will work on us over time. Just think of all the people that have been scammed over the years, from forums to the little old lady being ripped off by cowboy builders, those people truly believed the things the scammers said.

EVERYBODY is at risk.

Why is this getting personal? This isn't about peoples 'True Colours', it's about protecting ourselves.

Betty Boop;452136 wrote: Why is this getting personal? This isn't about peoples 'True Colours', it's about protecting ourselves.


I agree 100%. It's not personal at all.

Good post :-6

Betty Boop;452136 wrote: I think this thread is necessary, yes it's wonderful that we have helped people out. What worries me is that guests are reading all about our generosity, it needs to be more discreet.

What I say below bears no relevance to Jimbo, Suzy, BR, Mom or anyone else who has recieved help or gifts, they are members we have grown to love and respect.

I just think we all need to be more aware of the levels some people will sink to. People who are willing to 'scam' people out of money will do so over a long period of time, they only need to join up here, be a member for a few months, win our trust and then announce they have a 'problem'. There are the obvious scammers like 'Rent help needed', and there are the more sophisticated ones that will work on us over time. Just think of all the people that have been scammed over the years, from forums to the little old lady being ripped off by cowboy builders, those people truly believed the things the scammers said.

EVERYBODY is at risk.

Why is this getting personal? This isn't about peoples 'True Colours', it's about protecting ourselves.


:yh_clap :yh_clap :yh_clap

thank you betty, thats all im trying to say & have found it frustrating that it could be taken any other way

There are some very generous people here so its not about meanness its about common sence . How would any of us know if we were being ripped off . It doesn't take a lot to fit in here, a few complements a few good posts how on earth do we know somebodys true intent .

buttercup;452101 wrote: In light of recent events i thought we could discuss how members feel about this subject.

I personally think its great for us to be able to help other members in need & happy to contribute where i can although it will never be large amounts of cash, several things concern me, first im not a fan of 'private' clubs but do feel it should be kept off the main board, then again this means only supporting members would have access & that concerns me as im sure many members who are not supporting would wish to contribute, problem 2 - how do we decide who's need is greater? Ive lots of other questions too, your thoughts please


Since I've been here, 15 months, there has been 2 or 3 occasions when we have had the opportunity to help someone out. In truth, it doesn't happen that often.

I can't see any other way than by a public thread to bring these things to light .......done in a sensitive way, which has always happened if my memory serves me right.

The actual offer of help could be done by PM to the 'organiser' if that's what people would prefer.

Making decisions about who is 'needier' than others should be left to the individual IMO.

I always find it heartwarming to see peoples reactions and responses to the trials and tribulations of others whether they are in need of a hug, a kind word, advice or material help.

Don't know what else to say really ....

mrsK;452144 wrote: I care about

" all" the people on this forum.

I care that some may have their feelings hurt.

I care that some may feel they are being picked on.

Most of all I care that all my friends in the garden can say what they want & not be bashed up about what they say/post.

I am not taking sides I just wish we could all be able to say what we want, when we want, without recrimination.:-6 :-6


What a lovely post, Mrs. K :-4

It got personal due to the inappropriateness of the bad timing in which complaints were brought up. It got personal when some members decided to think for the rest of us.

Of course it's personal: when a certain member was recently in a bad pinch, everybody came running to help out including financially. It's already been pointed out that our current member in need has only been here three months. Yeah so? So let's not pretend it isn't personal. I wouldn't help out but maybe two specific members on this board and I decided for myself if I was going to help this one or not.



The idea that people are going to see us as too generous and scam us is a smokescreen. You can get scammed anywhere. So if you're worried about getting taken, then don't reach for your wallet. But please stop trying to protect everyone else from the gullibility you claim exists. We're not children here and we can decide for ourselves our own level of susceptibility. And on that note, if it was a scam? What goes around comes around and kharma will take care of that.



Speaking for myself, I was utterly embarrassed when this issue came up as it did. Embarrassed for my friend and embarrassed that some people thought it was good timing. It was absolutely inappropriate and could have been handled in a much classier manner.



Regard for a member's personal feelings and pride was not considered very well. To point out that people could be taken advantage of and then say "Oh but I don't mean YOU!" is ridiculous.



On the subject of having a special board, since when do we need anyone to decide for us "whose need is greater?!" I help when I can. I will decide for myself who needs my help more. I do not need to be micromanaged by others.



There's this thing called live and let live. I don't fault anyone who didn't put out help. That's their business and their option just as what I choose to do with my money is my own business.



I hope I've made my feelings clear. I have tried.

Bez;452159 wrote: I always find it heartwarming to see peoples reactions and responses to the trials and tribulations of others whether they are in need of a hug, a kind word, advice or material help.






I haven't got a heart of stone, I also find it heartwarming, but how many people look at this site every day as a guest?

Somebody could be looking at this right now and saying, 'oh look here Bert, see these lovely people sending out cash to the needy.'



We just need to be careful.

You all make such VERY good points!

I would only add that it is easy to get scammed in RL too!

How many times have you bought a lottery ticket where there are lots of 'wonderful' prizes and all donations go to charity, only to find out that 5p goes to charity and 95p goes to the sellers as profit! AND no one ever knows anyone who wins those prizes!

We all get scammed at some point and we feel like mugs. So all you can do is give to whatever causes you believe to be worthwhile.

So if someone on FG has a problem and I can help, I will. Like floppy, I don't always have the money. Sometimes I might only be able to give a hug. Other times I can help out with money, but even then it's not going to be hundreds of pounds, because i don't have it!

We all have something in our home which we thought was a good investment and it turned out to be a white elephant! A bread maker we never use or a dress we never wear. So we all get scammed and we all waste money. So if we send £10 to someone who needs our help and later find we've been scammed then really that's just another white elephant. Put it down to experience and move on. Like Red said, what goes around, comes around. Even a well-loved scammer wouldn't be welcome back at FG once the scam had been discovered! So they might have £200 in their pocket but they've lost a lot of good friends - and the friends and the fun would've lasted a lot longer than the £200!

I think you can become too cynical about life. Yes, that means you keep all your money, but you're not the warm-hearted and caring person that all the FG folks are.

I would rather send money and/or hugs to those i care about and to causes I believe in. I love the sense of closeness, friendship, warmth and love in FG. If I can help someone I care about then that makes me feel good, it helps make me into the kind of person I want to be. And if I get scammed, well it was because I had a kind heart and a giving nature (as all FGers do!) and not because I had a warped and twisted nature like the scammer would have - and he has to live with himself after.

Rapunzel;452197 wrote: You all make such VERY good points!



I would only add that it is easy to get scammed in RL too!



How many times have you bought a lottery ticket where there are lots of 'wonderful' prizes and all donations go to charity, only to find out that 5p goes to charity and 95p goes to the sellers as profit! AND no one ever knows anyone who wins those prizes!



We all get scammed at some point and we feel like mugs. So all you can do is give to whatever causes you believe to be worthwhile.



So if someone on FG has a problem and I can help, I will. Like floppy, I don't always have the money. Sometimes I might only be able to give a hug. Other times I can help out with money, but even then it's not going to be hundreds of pounds, because i don't have it!



We all have something in our home which we thought was a good investment and it turned out to be a white elephant! A bread maker we never use or a dress we never wear. So we all get scammed and we all waste money. So if we send £10 to someone who needs our help and later find we've been scammed then really that's just another white elephant. Put it down to experience and move on. Like Red said, what goes around, comes around. Even a well-loved scammer wouldn't be welcome back at FG once the scam had been discovered! So they might have £200 in their pocket but they've lost a lot of good friends - and the friends and the fun would've lasted a lot longer than the £200!



I think you can become too cynical about life. Yes, that means you keep all your money, but you're not the warm-hearted and caring person that all the FG folks are.



I would rather send money and/or hugs to those i care about and to causes I believe in. I love the sense of closeness, friendship, warmth and love in FG. If I can help someone I care about then that makes me feel good, it helps make me into the kind of person I want to be. And if I get scammed, well it was because I had a kind heart and a giving nature (as all FGers do!) and not because I had a warped and twisted nature like the scammer would have - and he has to live with himself after.


Well said, I have a tear in my eye now.

Apparently I've missed something vitally important to someone. Obviously this thread is a leak sprung from a different thread. I suggest those with personal issues -- and I'll hold off naming names for now, on the off chance I might be wrong -- hash it out in private or stay clear of each other.



As for the potential for scams: Don't protect me. There will always be scum who will try to find a way to take advantage of nice people. To eliminate the potential for being scammed, we have to eliminate or at least hide the nice. The nice is the reason to be here. Without the nice, what's the point?



Why don't we do this: let's be nice. If one of us is taken advantage of because of misplaced niceness, let's be extra nice to that person so she/he will not feel so bad about being nice.

Betty Boop;452169 wrote: I haven't got a heart of stone, I also find it heartwarming, but how many people look at this site every day as a guest?

Somebody could be looking at this right now and saying, 'oh look here Bert, see these lovely people sending out cash to the needy.'



We just need to be careful.
I agree, particularly around people who have a mate called Bert :-3

Betty Boop;452169 wrote: I haven't got a heart of stone, I also find it heartwarming, but how many people look at this site every day as a guest?

Somebody could be looking at this right now and saying, 'oh look here Bert, see these lovely people sending out cash to the needy.'



We just need to be careful.


I agree....we DO need to be careful. I also agree with your previous post and MrsKs and Chers.

There are enough people here with 'life experience' to be able to alert others to possible scams / deceipts. ......people were kind enough to 'educate' me when I first arrived here.

One of the wonderful things about FG is the frank and open discussion that goes on here....often this leads to someone trying to find a solution to another persons problem...sometimes it involves money, plane tickets, a place to stay etc....be cautious YES ...... post a solution publicly without recrimination and then maybe to save embarrassment (not sure why there should be any ), sort out the fine detail via PMs.

Just read ACC and Rapunzels posts....agree with both. :-4

SnoozeControl;452202 wrote: If this is concerning my comments in Hamster's thread to Jimbo, I never said a word about a scam. My comments were aimed at the manner the contributions were being collected, with sincere apologies to Jimbo for the brief interruption.



As Floppy said she's done, I've also donated and given gifts ANONYMOUSLY because the point is giving, not receiving recognition. Not really a difficult concept to understand, yet I seem to be misread everytime I type it.



Since the subject has been brought up though, all of us in this forum (and in any other locations we visit online) should be more careful about giving out personal info. We know each other, trust each other, but we forget this isn't a closed forum and there are a lot of predators out there.




:-6 I agree

Accountable;452199 wrote: Apparently I've missed something vitally important to someone. Obviously this thread is a leak sprung from a different thread. I suggest those with personal issues -- and I'll hold off naming names for now, on the off chance I might be wrong -- hash it out in private or stay clear of each other.



As for the potential for scams: Don't protect me. There will always be scum who will try to find a way to take advantage of nice people. To eliminate the potential for being scammed, we have to eliminate or at least hide the nice. The nice is the reason to be here. Without the nice, what's the point?



Why don't we do this: let's be nice. If one of us is taken advantage of because of misplaced niceness, let's be extra nice to that person so she/he will not feel so bad about being nice.


it did spring from another thread accounts, i started it in the hope that the origional would be left in the manner in which it was intended & dident get contriversial, i see nothing wrong with members posting how they feel about the subject here & further to that think many good points have been raised so far

what makes me sad is that there are people i have known here for years, and some of them are in need. but i can't manage it. so the best i can do is offer moral support.

lady cop;452207 wrote: what makes me sad is that there are people i have known here for years, and some of them are in need. but i can't manage it. so the best i can do is offer moral support.


Don't be sad LC.....moral support for others is priceless. Just being able to see that you are loved and cared for on a regular basis can haul us out of 'the pits'. That's my experience anyway.

very brave buttercup.

a similar question was asked a while ago on the heels of another campaign and it was treated more harshly. of course the question arises in response to something. why would it occur to ask unless in response to something? i've been a little uncomfortable with the fundraising happening on the public boards as well. no problem with the fundraising just with the public aspect.

the fundraising that happens here is for known and loved members, not for newbies who show up with a sob story, so the chances of scams is greatly reduced.

if i think about what part made me uncomfortable it was that a number of threads start and they lead up to the fundraising thread. by the time the fundraising starts there are usually about 4 or 5 threads on the same topic and because of the "flooding" it seems like a telemarketing scheme. this is just to say how the negative feeling arises from a good thing. the thing is good and the "mass marketing" feeling is unintentional.

i do think that it should be contained in an area of it's own and public threads can direct people as to where to help out. it is Tombstone's board. any use of it to raise money should be vetted through him. if folks can read about a problem and find out how to help the will join. i think the board should benefit from all the threads. if ForumGarden gains new members because they want to help and have to be a member to donate then it is a win-win situation.

I suggest asking Tombstone and trying not to poke sticks at those who raise a question.

I have a question for Tombstone of my own. Why isn't the thread merge used more often?

It's his board

While I applaud the generous nature of the folks here, and think it says alot for the people who belong, but I also agree with the caution of scammers comming in to take advantage.

That said, maybe Tombstone could open an area, if possible, that is open to all registered members, but cannot be viewed by guests. Not sure if that is possible.

As someone who agrees whole heartedly with everyone's generosity, I would be one who would choose not to contribute money. I just do not have it to give...and as someone said, where do you draw the line? If you give gto one gardener in need, you may feel obligated to contribute to all.

So, I hope folks would not think less of me for making the choice to refrain from contributing money. In return, I would also say that if I were in a situation where I was in need..I would not want or expect anyone here to offer funds.

Marie5656;452248 wrote: While I applaud the generous nature of the folks here, and think it says alot for the people who belong, but I also agree with the caution of scammers comming in to take advantage.

That said, maybe Tombstone could open an area, if possible, that is open to all registered members, but cannot be viewed by guests. Not sure if that is possible.

As someone who agrees whole heartedly with everyone's generosity, I would be one who would choose not to contribute money. I just do not have it to give...and as someone said, where do you draw the line? If you give gto one gardener in need, you may feel obligated to contribute to all.

So, I hope folks would not think less of me for making the choice to refrain from contributing money. In return, I would also say that if I were in a situation where I was in need..I would not want or expect anyone here to offer funds.


If my memory serves me right, fundraising has always been as a result of SOMEONE using it as a solution to someone elses problem. I have NEVER seen anyone solicit money or help for themselves.

IMO, FG is NOT a place where someone is 'pilloried' because they cannot or will not contribute....heaven forbid.....folks here are on the whole far more understanding .....we all have the freedom to make choices.

I'm in danger of repeating myself but ....I can see no problem in publicly putting forward a means of helping a fellow Gardener, whether money is involved or not, but maybe keep the ACTUAL help/donating private in PMs to the organiser/originator. It can be sensitive....I understand that.

helefra;452250 wrote: There are some very interesting and somewhat agreeable posts on here. The most I have ever been scammed by is when a lady asked me for £1 (or one dollar if you live in the US) to get the bus home. I then watched this person whilst she walked past the bus stop and headed off somewhere else. :-5

I was also scammed not so long ago where a lady was in shock and she was literally in tears. She said she had been robbed and that she had no money to get home. The bus fare to get back will cost her £30.00 and she could prove that she had undergone a robbery because she could provide the crime number she was given. She hadn't had anything to eat because of the loss of funds and so my partner and I took her to the main bus station and gave her £40.00 so that she could get home.

We would have paid for her ticket but for those of you who have ever used the National Express know that when the ticket office is closed (which it was, as it was after 10.00pm) then the ticket is bought on the bus. Both my partner and I would have waited until the bus turned up but it would not be arriving in Birmingham until approximately 11.00pm. So my partner and I decided to give her the money and we set off home. She and I swapped details as well as telephone numbers. When I contacted her at the address given, the post came back as "address unknown". When I tried the number given, it just kept constantly ringing and no reply - damn it.

I have also seen people help those living on the street. There was one man who came in with a young lady who was obviously living rough, and he bought her some food from the nearby sandwich shop.

However, I don't think it matters what we do in terms of whether it be by fundraising or watching out for scams, I know that everyone here has their "head screwed on" and would be able to spot the difference.

So, when it comes to fundraising on FG, a phrase springs to mind:-

United we stand, divided we fall

We are a bunch of individuals from all nations and of different races. We have laughed and shared in the highs and lows of life, so I don't think it is wrong to ask if anyone can help out. Even if there are those who cannot help, the fact that they offer support in another way still gives the person being helped the comfort they need.


Exactly my sentiments Helefra.......'cept it's taken me 3 posts to get over what I wanted to say....

helefra;452270 wrote: Don't worry Bez, it happens to the best of us


I wish I could be like ACC and Nomad....get straight to the point with as few words as possible.....may be one day

Bez;452261 wrote: .....we all have the freedom to make choices.


Exactly.

So those who want to contribute - Do.

Those who don't want to contribute - Don't. End of story.

Come on guys lets not demonise people for asking questions .:-6

Go with your hearts... if you can do it you do it, if you can't do it you don't do it... and if you wish to remain anonamous just say so to whomever is organizing it... pretty simple... we can't all agree on the mode, or method's of help it is very personal to everyone, including those who do not participate.

No one is any better or worse for participating or not.

Bez;452280 wrote: I wish I could be like ACC and Nomad....get straight to the point with as few words as possible.....may be one day
:yh_youkid Aw you!



It's ADD I think. If I post too long a post, I get distracted. :-3





Okay, here's a suggestion and then I'll sit down. Let's all pretend each of us is adult enough to take our fates in our own hands, and trust that we can.

SnoozeControl;452819 wrote: I've got no problem with fund raisers, people giving donations or even wiping their asses with dollar bills, if that's what they want to do. What I would like to see when this situation arises again is a little less public 'recruitment' for donations. Can we possibly keep things a little more private once the fund raising begins?



Is that really asking so much?



Disclaimer: This post in no way insinuates any past, present and future members of this forum were/are/will be involved with scams anywhere in the world or future human habitations located somewhere other than the planet Earth. It also does not claim to be advising other members how to think or what to spend their money on.
Yes. You only get to request that for your own fundraiser. That's freedom, sweetie.

SnoozeControl;452819 wrote: I've got no problem with fund raisers, people giving donations or even wiping their asses with dollar bills, if that's what they want to do. What I would like to see when this situation arises again is a little less public 'recruitment' for donations. Can we possibly keep things a little more private once the fund raising begins?

Is that really asking so much?

Disclaimer: This post in no way insinuates any past, present and future members of this forum were/are/will be involved with scams anywhere in the world or future human habitations located somewhere other than the planet Earth. It also does not claim to be advising other members how to think or what to spend their money on.


what's wrong with cheerleading snooze"

two, four, six, ate,

i ain't gonna participate!!

The disclaimer cracked me up, Snooze, good job!!



I don't think the public fundraisers are the right thing to do. I think

there is too much chance of feelings getting hurt somewhere along

the way. Especially the way it was done with this latest thing.

Publicly thanking everyone by name sort of makes other names

glaring omissions. And I don't think someone who says something

about it should have a bunch of others jump down their throat.

I think a lot of you want to hold Snooze in particular to a

different standard. And I don't think that's right.



Did any of you ever stop to think that there are people who feel the

way some of us feel that would never feel "safe" enough to say so?

I'll tell you right now, that's happened. And stop and think of the

possible complications "down the road". Of people looking askance

at a person perhaps because they gave to one and not another. Or

various permutations thereof. Don't think so you say? Fine, I don't

care. Throw out all the stuff about the possibility of a scam and

examine the other things that are left. About how people can and

do feel about this.



IN MY OPINION, it wasn't personal, it wasn't innapropriate, it wasn't

bad timing. Nobody's trying to think for the rest of you. That someone

states that as fact is innapropriate in MY book.





Signed,

PRETTY, COLORFUL GIRL

WARRIOR!



;)

valerie;452851 wrote: The disclaimer cracked me up, Snooze, good job!!



I don't think the public fundraisers are the right thing to do. I think

there is too much chance of feelings getting hurt somewhere along

the way. Especially the way it was done with this latest thing.

Publicly thanking everyone by name sort of makes other names

glaring omissions. And I don't think someone who says something

about it should have a bunch of others jump down their throat.

I think a lot of you want to hold Snooze in particular to a

different standard. And I don't think that's right.



Did any of you ever stop to think that there are people who feel the

way some of us feel that would never feel "safe" enough to say so?

I'll tell you right now, that's happened. And stop and think of the

possible complications "down the road". Of people looking askance

at a person perhaps because they gave to one and not another. Or

various permutations thereof. Don't think so you say? Fine, I don't

care. Throw out all the stuff about the possibility of a scam and

examine the other things that are left. About how people can and

do feel about this.



IN MY OPINION, it wasn't personal, it wasn't innapropriate, it wasn't

bad timing. Nobody's trying to think for the rest of you. That someone

states that as fact is innapropriate in MY book.





Signed,

PRETTY, COLORFUL GIRL

WARRIOR!



;)


You are a gem Val;)

Ever heard of a telethon? Does Jerry Lewis offend you? It was mentioned that several people wanted to remain anonymous. That's cool. Being named is also okay in my opinion. It's not like someone said "Red donated X amount of money! Yay!"

In fact...the only reason we suspect you did not donate money, Snooze, is because you told us you didn't. Otherwise no one would know. And you know what? Nobody cares! I'm not trying to be a smartbutt here, I'm just saying I think you feel embarrassed or guilty over it and that's why you're acting like this. I don't think anybody thinks less of you for not giving money. At least I don't.



I've been in fundraising a long time and what you see as cheerleading, I see as goodnatured. Keeping the spirit going. Just like you do with these "beams" that go around in here, except this involved money.



Someone here sent me a nice PM about this today. For the record, I am angry at the situation, not anyone in particular. Everyone's got a right to what they think, on both sides. All sides.



For what it's worth, I think Accountable's suggestion is a winner.



Thanks for reading!



:)

RedGlitter;452859 wrote: In fact...the only reason we suspect you did not donate money, Snooze, is because you told us you didn't. Otherwise no one would know.
You're wrong there, Red. So very wrong.

Yes, it was inappropriate. Because it was brought up as were were doing it, saying "we could get scammed!" was taken by many of us as a direct implication...okay, a sneaky way of implying, if you will. Following it with

Oh I don't mean YOU!" doesn't work as it makes it look like that's exactly what you mean. That is what my main objection was and is. Had this come up afterward, that would have been different.

I recall a certain member here receiving donations recently. The issue was not brought up then or afterward. Now am I to believe you all are suddenly bothered? :wah: Please do not tell me someone must be a member in good standing after X many days before we can consider him or her safe enough to help.



That's why private PMs are so nice. You can handle your business without hurting anyone's feelings. That's how it could have and should have been done.