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I saw a show tonight that was a mine of information on our traditional christmas bird (ahem) the Turkey.

The Turkey is of course a native of North America, where it was discovered by a European (as opposed to Native Americans who must have noticed them somewhere along the way as they are hard to miss). This someone, (probably Spanish, with an iron hat) found the strange but wonderfully tasty bird circa 1520. It was brought to Europe where it became popular and was traded by Turkish merchants (hence the English noun for the big gobblers). The English then bred turkeys up round Norfolk/Suffolk way, and used to march loads of them down to London at Christmas in little leather boots. The 2 most popular breeds became the Norfolk Black and the Holland White.

Then a bit later on, the pilgrim father/mayflower people got kicked out of England for being all religious in a way that was disturbing or something, and when they got on their ships they brought these English-bred Turkeys with them, which is what they had for thanks-giving {whenever it was that this happened probably the first winter they survived I am supposing (it sounds right)}. So the Turkey has been popular in Europe since the 16th century and was re-introduced into a continent where it was already native by religious immigrants who used it to celebrate surviving a harsh winter in a foreign continent. How it ended up as the Christmas bird I have no idea, but on the subject of Christmas.

They also talked about the Roman god Mithridates, a sun god, by legend born in a stable of a virgin, attended by 3 wise men on December 25th, who was worshiped on a Sunday and it was said died to save mens souls from sin, and advocated peace, his head priest was called "Papa" and his main sanctuary was on the Vatican hill in Rome. Sound familiar?

"marched them down to London in little leather boots?" LITTLE LEATHER BOOTS?

Then they hauled them back to the "new world," (which, I guess, qualified as THE OLD WORLD for the poor turkeys) where they were left to go barefooted? The things I learn, hanging 'round with you!

EGAD! Imagine the conversations they had with their Native American cousins? Can you imagine those human natives, seeing little turkeys in little leather boots? (One assumes they wore their travel outfits as they came off the ship--wanting to make a good impression.)

Frankly, turkey tastes good, whether it wore shoes or not!





(And yes, 'BallyBob...Mithra IS familiar....yet another "virgin birth.")

Lulu2;498506 wrote: "marched them down to London in little leather boots?" LITTLE LEATHER BOOTS?

Then they hauled them back to the "new world," (which, I guess, qualified as THE OLD WORLD for the poor turkeys) where they were left to go barefooted? The things I learn, hanging 'round with you!

EGAD! Imagine the conversations they had with their Native American cousins? Can you imagine those human natives, seeing little turkeys in little leather boots? (One assumes they wore their travel outfits as they came off the ship--wanting to make a good impression.)

Frankly, turkey tastes good, whether it wore shoes or not!

(And yes, 'BallyBob...Mithra IS familiar....yet another "virgin birth.")








Yes I can see the resentments of these flashy oversees turkeys turning up at home at last with their boots and their whole "I've walked to London" attitude :wah:. I think that perhaps shooed birds could make a comeback you know, its kinda all Greenpeacey and that init? They also used to give pigs little woolen shoes with leather soles as well you know, apparently it was a long walk to london and the roads were bad and all that.

The Holidays would just not be the same without a turkey dinner. One of my favorite meals.

onsekiz;498683 wrote: They also taste better than chicken (imo), I really missed eating turkey meat. Life is not fair, living in a country named turkey and missing eating turkey sucks :wah:


Yes, there is a great deal of irony in that situation, my commiserations sir.

ONSEKIZ: Maybe you could import some fertile eggs? I'd look into this as a business idea...."TURKISH TURKEY" seems like a good concept.

Maybe you could dress them in those historic Turkish shoes with the turned up toes?

Just a thought...

'BallyBob: "They also used to give pigs little woolen shoes with leather soles as well you know, apparently it was a long walk to london and the roads were bad and all that."

++++++++++++ Is this the origin of the term "pigs' trotters?" Just wondering. Perhaps it was an early PETA project?

HINDI is one of the many languages spoken in India today. Perhaps nobody wants to offend the (largely vegetarian) Indians by presenting them with a roasted bird which has their name on it?

Oh, did they mix up India, Indians, and Indians from the Americas?

Ah, only Columbus did that.....................:wah:

'BallyBob: "They also used to give pigs little woolen shoes with leather soles as well you know, apparently it was a long walk to london and the roads were bad and all that."

++++++++++++ Is this the origin of the term "pigs' trotters?" Just wondering. Perhaps it was an early PETA project?


Indeed, I say give all animals shoes not just horses, fair is fair. :rolleyes:

onsekiz;498710 wrote: By the way in Turkish, turkey is "hindi". And that means Indian also. I think they were thinking turkeys' origin was Indian. What an influential animal.


Yes, apparently thats the case in most other European countries as well, its just the English speaking countries that call it Turkey. I don't think its meant as an insult, its just a shortening of the old term "Turkey Fowl" as you always bought one off a Turkish merchant at the time. I wonder are their other countries that have a major food product named after them?

Lulu2;498711 wrote: HINDI is one of the many languages spoken in India today. Perhaps nobody wants to offend the (largely vegetarian) Indians by presenting them with a roasted bird which has their name on it?


I must ask my friends wife in Delhi, she can sort this all out for us. This Turkey issue is bigger than I realized. I think they had to change the native Choctaw name for it as well as it sounds very similar to the English language phrase "***** It", who would ever have though that this large bird could cause so much trouble, the Turks, the Indians, and the Choctaw are already upset, who's next?

What? How can it be "corn?" CORN IS A GIFT FROM THIS HEMISPHERE, thankyouverymuch! Are those #$%$# Egyptians trying to claim it as theirs? :wah:

OR...does it mean Turks think Egyptians make CORNY jokes?

chonsigirl;498714 wrote: Oh, did they mix up India, Indians, and Indians from the Americas?

Ah, only Columbus did that.....................:wah:


Oh god yeah, it was all a bit confusing for us poor Europeans, we didn't know one part of the world from the other at the time. I think it was hard enough for some of us to get over the fact that it wasn't flat at all. Sure Columbus thought he was in S.E. Asia for years when he was actually in the Carribbean all the time, and he even missed the kinda quite large land mass to the north as well. He was a good explorer, but he had his problems alright.

Lulu2;498731 wrote: What? How can it be "corn?" CORN IS A GIFT FROM THIS HEMISPHERE, thankyouverymuch! Are those #$%$# Egyptians trying to claim it as theirs? :wah:

OR...does it mean Turks think Egyptians make CORNY jokes?


I think its cause Egypt was the wheat breadbasket of the med since Roman times, so its that mix up of wheat and maize again, oh dear, this is all very confusing.

I'm puzzled to hear that people in Turkey find the name "insulting." How'd you all like to be known as YANKS? EH?

onsekiz;498729 wrote: Well in Turkish Eygpt is "corn"


Do you mean the word "Egypt" means corn, or do you have a Turkish name for Egypt that means corn. Come to think of it, what do the Egyptians call Egypt?

They call it home.

Lulu2;498734 wrote: I'm puzzled to hear that people in Turkey find the name "insulting." How'd you all like to be known as YANKS? EH?


Well we are the Paddy's or the Micks, that ain't great either, my name is not Paddy or Micheal. I know that you are no Yankee dear, never fear.

Lulu2;498736 wrote: They call it home.


Oh very good. You are on the ball today.

Paddys? Do you grow rice?

Those clever Turks! Saving words, aren't they? Two for one!

Did Ataturk take or give his name to/from modern Turkey?

onsekiz;498740 wrote: :wah:

Yes Galbally it's "misir" and means corn and Eygpt.


Misir, eh? Interesting. What do you call Turkey in Turkey? Country and bird as it were?



Ireland in Irish is Eireann, not Eire, which is a name for the Republic of Ireland. I have no idea what the Irish name for Turkey is though, or Egypt, though America is the same.

GET BUSY AND FIND OUT, 'BallyBob!

Lulu2;498744 wrote: Those clever Turks! Saving words, aren't they? Two for one!

Did Ataturk take or give his name to/from modern Turkey?


Was it not that his name means "Leader of the Turks" or something? Sure the Turks come from central Asia like the Caucasians I think, and they are still a large ethnic group across the whole region. There is a Turkestan over there as well.

Lulu2;498741 wrote: Paddys? Do you grow rice?


No, but I like rice, you would think that we should be called "spuds" or something really wouldn't you? Arra shure, whasn't it old St. Patrick himself who came over, gave us a dose of Christianity and drove the snakes away. He was Welsh you know.

(Have you two stopped to consider a man in Turkey, joking simultaneously with a man in Ireland and a woman in California? All of them taking the technology for granted? WOW!)

onsekiz;498749 wrote: You know there are many extremely nationalist people here. They're always searching for something to react. They think "Turk's only friend is another Turk"

We're trying to get rid of them but they're accumulating like amoebas.


There is a lot of that about in the world today unfortunately, you are not alone there.

Lulu2;498755 wrote: (Have you two stopped to consider a man in Turkey, joking simultaneously with a man in Ireland and a woman in California? All of them taking the technology for granted? WOW!)


Yes, its funny how easily we start taking technology and science for granted (because we know it works of course). Anyway, its a good thing of course, what fun.

Have I said I bribed a bell boy to let me into Ataturk's suite at the Pera Palas hotel? There are fresh towels and toilet paper....just in case he comes back to use it!

I'm quite sure the Turks eat rice...WE eat rice...the Irish eat rice (when they're not trying to turn it into whiskey so they can drink it)....

WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

Lulu2;498746 wrote: GET BUSY AND FIND OUT, 'BallyBob!


Which ones, the Irish names for things? I will get on it miss. :driving:

No he wasn't - he was a Briton from Strathclyde.

(St. Patrick I mean).

Lulu2;498763 wrote: Have I said I bribed a bell boy to let me into Ataturk's suite at the Pera Palas hotel? There are fresh towels and toilet paper....just in case he comes back to use it!

I'm quite sure the Turks eat rice...WE eat rice...the Irish eat rice (when they're not trying to turn it into whiskey so they can drink it)....

WHAT A COINCIDENCE!


Oh god yeah, we eat everything now, Rice, Cous Cous, Noodles, Pasta, even Potatos and Bread. I must say I think rice is my favorite of the staples, well maybe bread is I dunno?. Actually Turkish food is very good, well the versions that we get here are popular.

Then, if Turkey is an ancient name.....why change it? I have Armenian friends who refer to it today as something which sounds like "Turkey-ah." Is that the correct pronunciation?

When I was in Turkey, I occasionally told merchants I was Irish...I seemed to get better prices! (And it was fun to do the accent....) :wah:

Besides...EVERYONE likes the Irish!

Chookie;498767 wrote: No he wasn't - he was a Briton from Strathclyde.


Well, OK, its close enough, I have heard that one as well, along with that he was from somewhere on the Severn Estury, North Wales, the Wirral etc. the main thing is that he wasn't Irish Now St. Coulmbcille was Irish, but he went to Iona in Scotland didn't he, and St. Brendan, sure didn't he discover America himself, but there was no Whiskey there so he came back.

Well, if he comes back....I know where he'll be staying!

(I'm sorry that I have to leave now....it's been fun, you two! OXXOXOX)

Lulu2;498771 wrote: When I was in Turkey, I occasionally told merchants I was Irish...I seemed to get better prices! (And it was fun to do the accent....) :wah:

Besides...EVERYONE likes the Irish!


Erm, well almost everyone.

I think thats based on watching leprechaun films rather than actually ever having to deal with us though.

Hush...I've been to Ireland...you're all likeable!

Bye