Should Religion be Used as a Sales Tool?

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:17 pm

As I have stated here in the past, I am not overly religeous...I do not "practice" my Catholic upbringing regularly. But I still found something I observed today rather disturbing to my senses.

I was following behind a work truck for some carpentry company calling itself "Carpenter's Helpers". OK, not an issue. My issue came with the obvious religious icon painted on the side and back of thier truck...befitting , I assume, the owners Christian beliefs. The image was the one of the crucifiction..you know, the sillouette of the three crosses (Jesus and the two men crucified with him). Obvious reference, I guess to the "carpenter". Then..on the trucks mudflaps...LORD JESUS.

OK, there is where I lost it!!:-5 I mean, I have no problem with a business which sells Christian merchandise, displaying Christian icons on thier vehicles..or building. But to take a symbol which reflects an extremly solumn occasion in the history of the Christian faith, and use it to promote your roofing company!!! Puh--lees.

I was totally thrown off by this, and would not even consider using thier services.

Am I wrong, over-reacting...or what?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:30 pm

Maybe they are associated with a church, helping others with things that need to be fixed?

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:33 pm

Marie5656;499924 wrote:

Am I wrong, over-reacting...or what?

No.

I once received a piece of junk mail from a real estate agent that had a "Jesus fish" beside the guy's name and photo. I thought it was really tacky.

The image was the one of the crucifiction..you know, the sillouette of the three crosses (Jesus and the two men crucified with him).

Call the company and ask if they were the official supplier of crucifix lumber to the Roman Empire. Say you saw it on their truck!

Then..on the trucks mudflaps...LORD JESUS.

There's the basis for a country & western song here.

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:37 pm

"If you're going through hell, keep going."

Winston Churchill said it during the Blitz.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:37 pm

Marie, I see this a LOT here! Little Christian fish on doors, ads, etc. My guess is it's supposed to be a "secret symbol/secret club" kind of thing...much the way that fish was a "secret" sign in ancient Rome.

Does it mean that Christians get a good price? Does it mean I'm supposed to trust that they won't over-inflate their prices? Or am I supposed to believe that Hindus and Muslims need not apply?

To me, it's just another example of how people attempt to set themselves apart and divide themselves from one another.

PIFFLE!

Richard's example of the Christian mud-flaps is PERFECT! What would Jesus think, do you suppose?

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:48 pm

Lulu2;499966 wrote: What would Jesus think, do you suppose?

"Stop dragging My Name through the mud !"

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:49 pm

Richard Bell;499976 wrote: "Stop dragging my Name through the mud !"

now that is a good answer!!!!!!:)

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:50 pm

GREAT! Or maybe, "I'm TIRED of this use of my name?"

:wah:

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:52 pm

Must be my truck It has my name on it.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:54 pm

YZGI;499980 wrote: Must be my truck It has my name on it.

wonder what they would do if he asked for it? :wah:

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:54 pm

I didn't know you were Hispanic, Jesus!:wah:

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:57 pm

YZGI;499980 wrote: Must be my truck It has my name on it.

Jesus Chrysler ?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:57 pm

Richard Bell;499986 wrote: Jesus Chrysler ?
Lord Ford

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:58 pm

Or. Oh Lord not a Ford!

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:36 pm

Lulu, I am quite sure you're overreacting if you think the "Jesus Fish" everywhere is a secret symbol. That's the funniest thing I've heard today.

Marie, I think it's okay if the roofing company is perhaps owned or run by a religious person, say like a family business. I wouldn't think any more of the symbols you saw than Iwould of the Maneko cat or Buddha in my favorite Asian restaurant or the Icthyus symbol on my veterinarian's sign or business card. To me it says I am dealing with a religious personwho hopefully would incorporate decent values into their work. This is not to say a non religious person or one who doesn't display symbols is any less decent, howver I see where some could be swayed by seeing these things.

If the guy is an atheist and just using that stuff to get business or be funny then it sucks. Bu I would err on the side that he/she's sincere.

:)

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:20 pm

I don't really see anything wrong with the phrase "Lord Jesus"...Yes, it's been used by an overwhelming amount of people in reference to saying the lords name in vein, but to be quite honest, so has the word "Jesus". In fact, I am willing to bet more people use the word "Jesus" in an ill-tempered manner more so than that of "Lord Jesus"...I myself would need more insight before I were to automatically write it off as blasphemy,..but then again, coming from experience within the dog-eat-dog commercial fiasco we all call America, I can completely understand hesitation.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:23 pm

"but then again, coming from experience within the dog-eat-dog commercial fiasco we all call America, ..."

I feel very sorry for you...try to find something happy on which you can focus during the last moments of this year, ok? It might make your life easier.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:29 pm

RedGlitter;500023 wrote:

If the guy is an atheist and just using that stuff to get business or be funny then it sucks. Bu I would err on the side that he/she's sincere.

:)

It's kind of funny though if you think about it...

Someone trying to use something to in turn enhance their business persona in an attempt to get more business,..but really, if people are willing to be biased just because someone claims to be of the same faith, then it should be their fault really shouldn't it? Wouldn't that make them prejudice? :wah:

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:29 pm

Lulu2;500064 wrote: "but then again, coming from experience within the dog-eat-dog commercial fiasco we all call America, ..."

I feel very sorry for you...try to find something happy on which you can focus during the last moments of this year, ok? It might make your life easier.

What are you talking about Lulu?

Are you trying to say that America isn't a corporate madhouse?

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:35 pm

I agree, KE! Just keep it out of my life!

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:54 pm

Perhaps this business is affiliated with a church ? But mud flaps !!

Richard Bell stated the best - Don't drag me thru the mud..

Obviously trying to get your attention - and it worked..

Patsy

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:52 pm

Interesting discussion. I am afraid to put religious symbols on my car because the way I drive I may be mis-representing the Lord represented by the doo-dad on my car! And if I got really angry and yelled at someone or gave a one-fingered salute, with that cross or fish on my car, that would not be good! (Of course I don't do things like that, but just in case...:p ).

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:57 pm

I think the bigger issue with me was the use of the crusifiction as "billboard". I mean, that is a sacred time for Christians, and it was if they were demeaning it.

But again, I do tend to over react to some things.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:00 pm

Insom - cross your fingers ..

Patsy

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:18 pm

I am not the worlds most devout Catholic, but I am sure that there was a bit in the new testament about Jesus giving out stink to the money lenders in the temple of Solomon, so perhaps Christians should look to Jesus for an example (crazy idea I know, I know), and I don't think he was really the world's greatest venture capitalist, though his advice on paying your taxes promptly and to the correct (earthly) ruler was sound enough.

Also, in terms of this kind of corporate Christianity that involves lots of money, and commerce, marketing opportunities, and the rest, I never realized that god was so short of cash that he needed ours as well. One would think that the lord would have been prescient enough (after all he is all seeing and all knowing), not to let his finances get into a bad state? Hmmmmn?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:19 pm

I wonder though, Marie, if perhaps the guy with the crosses on his truck did it in the same mindcept as the Hispanics (usually Catholic) who put decals and spray painted images of the Virgin Mary on their cars? Or maybe this guy is a follower of Jesus and connects his roofing work with that of Jesus as carpenter? Just a thought.

I give you points for having one of the best topics of today! Good one. :-6

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:26 pm

Points taken, RedGlitter. I can see the connection.

I did not realize this topic would provoke such interest..but then religien often does here,

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:01 pm

Lulu2;500080 wrote: I agree, KE! Just keep it out of my life!

So a person in the USA does NOT have the right to advertise as a Christan because it gets into your life...........

PLEASE expound on how that works?

What happened to "LIFE LIBERTY and the pursuit of Happiness?"

or Freedom of CHOICE? Your Choice and THEIR choice!!!!

I can not see your point to this post whatsoever.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:09 pm

BTS;500217 wrote: So a person in the USA does NOT have the right to advertise as a Christan because it gets into your life...........

PLEASE expound on how that works?

What happened to "LIFE LIBERTY and the pursuit of Happiness?"

or Freedom of CHOICE? Your Choice and THEIR choice!!!!

I can not see your point to this post whatsoever.

I wondered that too, BTS. Would passing a public church be offensive too?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:27 pm

Pinky;500231 wrote: True, it is their choice, but exploiting god for their business is a little tacky, don't you think? I wouldn't hire 'em, purely because of that...they might come into my home and condemn me as the spawn of the devil...not that I care what people think anymore, but why draw controversy for the sake of it?

It's the same as if I was still mobile haidressing, and had stickers all over my car saying ' Protected by Witchcraft' and 'Pagan and Proud'.

I do have those on my car these days because I'm not trying to entice customers, so it doesn't matter. But you can see how people might be put off..

I agree I would NEVER hire them either..............

Butttt they do have the right to do this..... in the land of milk and honey.

Put off ??????

Naw just alerted to their motive and glad they played their hand before I hired them...

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:34 pm

Only in America.. I wouldn't hire them either - If I want my carpet cleaned , you'll need more than a cross to get you thru it...

What few choices we have left - I'm a bottom line person, I don't want or like a double edge sword.

Patsy

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:53 pm

BTS;500217 wrote: So a person in the USA does NOT have the right to advertise as a Christan because it gets into your life...........

PLEASE expound on how that works?

What happened to "LIFE LIBERTY and the pursuit of Happiness?"

or Freedom of CHOICE? Your Choice and THEIR choice!!!!

I don't think anybody has stated that it shouldn't be allowed. It's a matter of taste, for me. I think its tacky.

If somebody wants to put a statue of Jesus McChrist in front of their fast food burger restaurant, I say go ahead. Just be prepared for some differing opinions.

If a Muslim plumber wants to paint "Allah Akbar" on his van, fine, but it's going to get a lot of people edgy. If a Jewish electrician wants a big Star Of David on his truck, go for it , but you just know some anti-Semite is gonna flip out over it .

What does a business owner's religion mean as to the quality of their service or product ?

Speaking as a very "slack" follower of the Church Of The SubGenius, I'll hire a tradesperson, even if they don't have J.R. "Bob" Dobbs grinning visage painted on their truck.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:59 pm

It's bad business sense period..

Why would one put their beliefs / advertising along with their business? wrong..

I worked with a DR who was in Scientology - and had to work from his beliefs and quote from that script. BS

If your running a business then run that business and leave your religion and politics at home..

Patsy

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:18 pm

Richard Bell;500269 wrote: I don't think anybody has stated that it shouldn't be allowed.

Well yes they have............Richard Bell

When one says "just keep it out of my life" on something they see on a vehicle while driving..........Is not that censorship of sorts??...

Or do you see it as being different?

Shucks I read "Kill Bush" bumper stickers all the time and do I let it under me skin........

Naw .........

I just flip em off...

Ain't it GREAT in the land-o-milk and honey:driving:

Rain · Post by **Rain** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:40 pm

I just shake my head when I see stuff like that and wonder about the mentality of the ppl who put it there. But, like was mentioned above, This is America, and we have the right to do stuff like that, so... :driving: on fellow ppl.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:42 pm

Pinky;500294 wrote: I see 'Support rural sport' stickers all the time (meaning support fox-hunting)...I take it as my right to call them cruel, sadistic twats when I pull up along side them. Think it's okay to get ripped to bits in the name of sport? Start running buster. I'll give ya two minutes head start.

:yh_worshp :yh_star :yh_clap :yh_hugs

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:02 pm

BTS;500283 wrote: Well yes they have............Richard Bell

When one says "just keep it out of my life" on something they see on a vehicle while driving..........Is not that censorship of sorts??...

Or do you see it as being different?

...except I didn't say that, nor anything that resembles that remark.

All I said was I think it's tacky. I think this is the third time I've said it.

I realise that comment was made in this thread, but I didn't read it as a call for censorship or curtailment of freedom of speech.

I interpreted it as just "too much information". I'm not the least bit interested in a tradeperson's religion, politics, sexual proclivity, favourite sports team, etc., and I think those who wear such sentiments on their sleeve (or vehicle) are bound to divide the general public, the very source of their bread & butter (unless they are a vegan with a wheat allergy, which really doesn't concern me, either.)

Why would one put their beliefs / advertising along with their business? wrong..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree with Patsy's comment.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:36 pm

Richard Bell;500343 wrote: ...except I didn't say that, nor anything that resembles that remark.

All I said was I think it's tacky. I think this is the third time I've said it.

I realise that comment was made in this thread, but I didn't read it as a call for censorship or curtailment of freedom of speech.

I interpreted it as just "too much information". I'm not the least bit interested in a tradeperson's religion, politics, sexual proclivity, favourite sports team, etc., and I think those who wear such sentiments on their sleeve (or vehicle) are bound to divide the general public, the very source of their bread & butter (unless they are a vegan with a wheat allergy, which really doesn't concern me, either.)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree with Patsy's comment.

Did I say you said that?..

NO

You said

"I don't think anybody has stated that it shouldn't be allowed. It's a matter of taste, for me. I think its tacky."

I said............

Yes they had said that ( it shouldn't be allowed) in so many words..........

By pointing out this.... it gets into their way of life.

Come on now....

A add on a vehicles door getting into a way of life.........

I digress

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:43 pm

The way of life ??

You can't be a Bible thumper and expect to clean my carpet..

Your running a business - which way do you want to run it - into the ground.??

Patsy

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:53 pm

Patsy Warnick;500375 wrote: The way of life ??

You can't be a Bible thumper and expect to clean my carpet..

Your running a business - which way do you want to run it - into the ground.??

Patsy

DITTO

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:00 pm

BTS;500370 wrote: I said............

Yes they had said that ( it shouldn't be allowed) in so many words..........

It's a question of interpretation. I can understand why a person would read it differently.

I'll ultimately defer to the opinion of the author of the original comment as to it's meaning.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:08 pm

Richard Bell

Your being too nice explaining yourself - everyone for themself - they can decide.

If a company has a religious belief on their company truck - then they can decide if a bible thumper can clean their carpet or not.??

I'm saying & I believe your saying - its not good advertisment.

thats all - and everyone can decide for themself.. why would you delibertly post a ad to deter business?? Its their business not mine..

Patsy

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:51 pm

Patsy Warnick;500383 wrote: why would you delibertly post a ad to deter business??

Exactamundo!

We just had a municipal election here, and I saw quite a few candidates' signs in shop windows and in front of business establishments. It's not good policy.

Kynky · Post by **Kynky** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:47 am

I say let's give the guy a break. Maybe he's an actual, devout Christian who thinks it's his duty to bear witness. He tells others about his God. It's a bit much to think he just painted those words and pictures on his truck to annoy everyone around him. If you find it offensive, then there are other carpet cleaners around whose trucks don't have the art work. But that's not to say they are not religious people who also love their God. And most of them, offensive advertising or not, are honest business people trying to do a good day's work.

I have a much bigger problem with politicians lately who claim to be God-fearing Born Again Christians (whatever that means to them) and then, when they think they're off-camera or the microphone is turned off, revert to their swearing and other ugly language. They go on the campaign trail with that kind of message. Are THEY sincere? I doubt a whole bunch of them. And some of THEM we're already stuck with.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:04 am

I understand how people feel that displaying their religion on things affiliated within their business, as it being a sort of desperate, unthoughtful, disrespectful attempt to subtly maintain a sufficient amount of money and customers to meet their happiness, can be seen as distasteful...

but I think it's not fair to automatically assume that people with religious icons on their vehicles is meant purely for personal gain...What if they just happen to be very religious, and try to incorporate everything "Jesus" into their life, as well as heightening the awareness of it for anyone who holds an interest?

I realize that some may not want to see that, but it's a free world, and one should be able to ignore what they wish to not impose upon their own lifestyles.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:22 am

Marie5656;499924 wrote: As I have stated here in the past, I am not overly religeous...I do not "practice" my Catholic upbringing regularly. But I still found something I observed today rather disturbing to my senses.

I was following behind a work truck for some carpentry company calling itself "Carpenter's Helpers". OK, not an issue. My issue came with the obvious religious icon painted on the side and back of thier truck...befitting , I assume, the owners Christian beliefs. The image was the one of the crucifiction..you know, the sillouette of the three crosses (Jesus and the two men crucified with him). Obvious reference, I guess to the "carpenter". Then..on the trucks mudflaps...LORD JESUS.

OK, there is where I lost it!!:-5 I mean, I have no problem with a business which sells Christian merchandise, displaying Christian icons on thier vehicles..or building. But to take a symbol which reflects an extremly solumn occasion in the history of the Christian faith, and use it to promote your roofing company!!! Puh--lees.

I was totally thrown off by this, and would not even consider using thier services.

Am I wrong, over-reacting...or what?
I haven't read the rest of the thread so maybe it's been said already, but I would think a devout Christian (I'm a Christian, just not too devout) would be really insulted to see the name of Jesus being used to block mud from getting the truck dirty. :yh_frustr

No. I don't think you're overreacting.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:24 am

Lulu2;499966 wrote: Marie, I see this a LOT here! Little Christian fish on doors, ads, etc. My guess is it's supposed to be a "secret symbol/secret club" kind of thing...much the way that fish was a "secret" sign in ancient Rome.

Does it mean that Christians get a good price? Does it mean I'm supposed to trust that they won't over-inflate their prices? Or am I supposed to believe that Hindus and Muslims need not apply?
Now there's an overreaction. :wah: Predictable, too.