Awkward Questions.
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:01 am
We are with Socrates in the shades of Academe, i.e. a field, near Athens. It is about 400BC. Socrates was very fond of asking awkward questions. Something like this:-
'Why should we tell the truth?'
His acolytes darted their eyes about. By Zeus this was a tough one for a start. Up spake a brave youth. 'I would say because it's right to tell the truth.' The old hands knew what was coming and the Master did not disappoint them.
'Why is it right?' He asked.
The youth responded. 'If everybody told the truth there would be no misunderstandings between people, or nations, which cause wars. No crime would go unpunished because all offenders would admit....'
'Enough already.' Ejaculated Socrates. 'Go and write a song called "It's a Wonderful World" We don't need misunderstandings for war. If we want a bit of Sparta we give them a bit of a kicking and take it. Nothing to do with telling the truth. Can someone else help? It's a simple enough question.'
No one had the guts to say it came near the top in the unanswerable question list, and as there was an awkward silence under the olive boughs, my distant relative, Perkothenes spoke up.
'Because you could not believe or rely on what another said if there was no need to speak the truth you would not know whether what they said was true or not.'
For even the most stupid of Athenians this came under the heading of the bleedin' obvious, Socrates sighed and the other pupils started to get the glee which is infectious when another is for the chop.
The Philosopher spoke deliberately as if to a backward child. 'You ask a man, "Are the dates fresh?" Oh Yes, he says. This is a lie. In fact they are fly-blown windfalls a week old. You buy the dates. He has benefited from the lie, so why should he tell the truth?' This was directed at Perkothenes who duly elaborated on his argument instead of running away which might have been wiser.
'Because of the state of Athens...' he said.
'Bollocks to the state of Athens.' Interrupted Socrates, who was losing his legendary cool. 'Why should they tell the truth in Egypt, or China, if there is such a place?'
Perkothenes went on doggedly.
'Any organised state, for the betterment of the community as a whole must look to each individual, by Common Law if necessary, not to lie.'
Socrates rose to his feet.
'Law. Law. Let's write a thousand laws and fill the prisons. Enough Perkothenes. I hope you will learn more wisdom from experience or that your future generations acquire some or they will be dull and plebeian.
By the way, while this weighty discourse was going on the dull plebeians were tilling the fields and building the Parthenon. There was a marked absence of philosophers where the hard work was going on.
Socrates sat down again and said.
'Plato. What is your answer to my original question?'
Plato relinquished the hold he had on an adjacent youth.
'It is a purely personal thing.' He said. Socrates nodded to the group one by one and Plato continued. 'We should tell the truth for our own sakes. We each contain a right and wrong man. They know what they are. When we exercise the latter, lie, steal, and cheat, he tells us shame, and we feel bad. It may be a little or a lot, depending on our personality, but he invariably tells us we are wrong. When we exercise the right conduct inner man this is also transferred to our corporate self as well-being and satisfaction. The amswer to your question, Sir, as to why we don't tell the truth is because we have the choice. This area inside of us all, where the good and bad homonunculus reside is, I conceive, in the shape of a shell, a conch shell. I call it's effects Conch-Sense.'
Plato went a long way. We never heard any more about Perkothenes.
Peter :-6
Ancient Greek Gathering.
'Why should we tell the truth?'
His acolytes darted their eyes about. By Zeus this was a tough one for a start. Up spake a brave youth. 'I would say because it's right to tell the truth.' The old hands knew what was coming and the Master did not disappoint them.
'Why is it right?' He asked.
The youth responded. 'If everybody told the truth there would be no misunderstandings between people, or nations, which cause wars. No crime would go unpunished because all offenders would admit....'
'Enough already.' Ejaculated Socrates. 'Go and write a song called "It's a Wonderful World" We don't need misunderstandings for war. If we want a bit of Sparta we give them a bit of a kicking and take it. Nothing to do with telling the truth. Can someone else help? It's a simple enough question.'
No one had the guts to say it came near the top in the unanswerable question list, and as there was an awkward silence under the olive boughs, my distant relative, Perkothenes spoke up.
'Because you could not believe or rely on what another said if there was no need to speak the truth you would not know whether what they said was true or not.'
For even the most stupid of Athenians this came under the heading of the bleedin' obvious, Socrates sighed and the other pupils started to get the glee which is infectious when another is for the chop.
The Philosopher spoke deliberately as if to a backward child. 'You ask a man, "Are the dates fresh?" Oh Yes, he says. This is a lie. In fact they are fly-blown windfalls a week old. You buy the dates. He has benefited from the lie, so why should he tell the truth?' This was directed at Perkothenes who duly elaborated on his argument instead of running away which might have been wiser.
'Because of the state of Athens...' he said.
'Bollocks to the state of Athens.' Interrupted Socrates, who was losing his legendary cool. 'Why should they tell the truth in Egypt, or China, if there is such a place?'
Perkothenes went on doggedly.
'Any organised state, for the betterment of the community as a whole must look to each individual, by Common Law if necessary, not to lie.'
Socrates rose to his feet.
'Law. Law. Let's write a thousand laws and fill the prisons. Enough Perkothenes. I hope you will learn more wisdom from experience or that your future generations acquire some or they will be dull and plebeian.
By the way, while this weighty discourse was going on the dull plebeians were tilling the fields and building the Parthenon. There was a marked absence of philosophers where the hard work was going on.
Socrates sat down again and said.
'Plato. What is your answer to my original question?'
Plato relinquished the hold he had on an adjacent youth.
'It is a purely personal thing.' He said. Socrates nodded to the group one by one and Plato continued. 'We should tell the truth for our own sakes. We each contain a right and wrong man. They know what they are. When we exercise the latter, lie, steal, and cheat, he tells us shame, and we feel bad. It may be a little or a lot, depending on our personality, but he invariably tells us we are wrong. When we exercise the right conduct inner man this is also transferred to our corporate self as well-being and satisfaction. The amswer to your question, Sir, as to why we don't tell the truth is because we have the choice. This area inside of us all, where the good and bad homonunculus reside is, I conceive, in the shape of a shell, a conch shell. I call it's effects Conch-Sense.'
Plato went a long way. We never heard any more about Perkothenes.
Peter :-6
Ancient Greek Gathering.