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In advance of Holocaust Memorial Day later this month, the BBC have conducted a survey to gauge people's opinions on the event.

One can only imagine their surprise when they learned that a massive 60% of those under-35 that never actually heard of Auschwitz and did not know what the Holocaust was.

What a terrible discovery.

I'm not surprised it's three generations ago now. It's the age old debate, what do you teach in schools when it comes to history. Just the dates that are deemed important or do you teach social history and the history around and leading up to events. Hitler had many admirers on both sides of the atlantic even amomgst the Royal family. We had our own fascist movement just as we had our own communist supporters. When you teach about red clydeside and the general strike do you mention the tanks ready to go in to action or the invergordon mutiny in 1931 when the govt of the day was terrified we were about to see a revolution. Do you mention Oswald Moseley and the brownshirts or pretend they did not exist. You can't view the holocaust in isolation from the rest of the world or pretend that we are not all capable of such acts.

The holocaust is a stunmning example of what can happen if no one questions what they are told. After a while no one has the courage to do so.

gmc wrote: I'm not surprised it's three generations ago now. It's the age old debate, what do you teach in schools when it comes to history. Just the dates that are deemed important or do you teach social history and the history around and leading up to events. Hitler had many admirers on both sides of the atlantic even amomgst the Royal family.


Which member(s)?



gmc wrote: We had our own fascist movement (snip) Do you mention Oswald Moseley and the brownshirts or pretend they did not exist.


Erm, Mosley, Blackshirt, IIRC. ;->



gmc wrote: The holocaust is a stunmning example of what can happen if no one questions what they are told. After a while no one has the courage to do so.


I'm not sure the issue is of false information - just that no information is conveyed at all about some things. History teaching - indeed teaching full stop - is a pale shade of what it was.

posted by bill sikes

Which member(s)?


Duke of Windsor, that's why he got shipped out to the bahamas. He would have been king if the nazis had won. It was also seriously suggested that the Royal family go to Canada. I suspect if they had they would not have got back in.

Erm, Mosley, Blackshirt, IIRC. ;->

There is a fresh lot of stuff being released now after the 60 year period, fascinating stuff. I think it should be ten years mybe the B&^%$%^^& would behave a bit better if they knew we were going to be found out in their lifetimes.

posted by bill sikes

I'm not sure the issue is of false information - just that no information is conveyed at all about some things. History teaching - indeed teaching full stop - is a pale shade of what it was.


true, but at the same time so much is now accessible that wasn't thanks to the internet etc. It's not just information but how to interpret it as well and cross reference sources.

The kids are not one interested in the old history of the 1930s, in the last century.

gmc wrote: Duke of Windsor, that's why he got shipped out to the bahamas. He would have been king if the nazis had won.


Hm. Edward VIII abdicated in 1936, didn't he?

I think it is flat-out inexcusable that people don't know about the holocaust. There's an old saying, "If you don't learn from the past, you're doomed to repeat it." And, in my opinion, the teachers of today are a farce. I'm sure there are still some competent ones out there, somewhere, but as a rule, they are just not as dedicated as they were. You hear all the time about kids being pushed through the system only to graduate illiterate and incapable of doing even simple math. It's a shame. It's one of the reasons I chose to send my son to private school. Which, while expensive, is not a huge difference from public school. Pitiful.

posted by bill sikes

Hm. Edward VIII abdicated in 1936, didn't he?


Yep, but he was also known to admire hitler, bear in mind he would have been a puppet king to replece his brother. At least that is what has been suggested, certainly there seems to have been some concern at the time was concern that he favoured hitler.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2706723.stm

http://www.etoile.co.uk/Columns/RoyalScribe/041129.html

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/rele ... icance.htm

http://www.britishrepublic.org.uk/monarchy.htm

feeling controversial?

tHE REASON i HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST IS NOT BECAUSE OF SCHOOL. iT IS BECAUSE I GREW UP WITH MOSTLY JEWISH FRIENDS, SOME OF WHOM ARE STILL MY FRIENDS TODAY.. ALMOST 40 YEARS AGO. MANY OF THEM HAD

RELATIVES WHO WERE LOST IN OR SPENT TIME IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

I ALSO WORKED IN MANHATTAN DURING THE EARLY 70S WITH MANY EUROPEAN PEOPLE WHO HAD SURVIVED THE CAMPS. IN MY TIME BOOKS LIKE ANNE FRANK

WERE CHOICES WE MADE TO READ. I KNOW THAT THIS IS A TERRIBLE THING TO SAY.... HOWEVER I FEEL THAT OUR YOUTH IS SO DESENSITIZED TO HUMAN SUFFERING, THAT EVEN BEING TOLD THE FACTS ABOUT SLAUGHTERED JEWS, THEY WOULDNT BE TOO MOVED. TO THEM TALES OF NAZI GERMANY OR CONCENTRATION CAMPS ARE SIMILAR TO DISCUSSING THE MOVIE MATRIX. ITS INTERESTING HOW ONE SUBJECT FEEDS ANOTHER.....ONE OF THE REASONS WHY

MANY HUMANS IN MY AGE BRACKET ARE DEPRESSED IS BECAUSE WE KNOW TO BE TRUE WHAT I STATED ABOVE, AND SO.....IT HAS SERIOUSLY TAKEN THE JOY OUT OF LIVING FOR MANY OF US. WHEN I SAW THE MOVIE BRAVEHEART YEARS AGO, I LEARNED A LOT ABOUT SCOTLAND. I DEVELOPED FEELING FOR THE MAIN CHARACTER.. (i CANT REMEMBER HIS NAME.) BUT IN THE END WHEN THEY WERE TORCHERING HIM I HAD TO CLOSE MY EYES. IM GLAD I HAD TO CLOSE MY EYES

IT REASSURES ME THAT I AM STILL ALIVE.

weeder wrote: tHE REASON i HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST IS NOT BECAUSE OF SCHOOL. iT IS BECAUSE I GREW UP WITH MOSTLY JEWISH FRIENDS, SOME OF WHOM ARE STILL MY FRIENDS TODAY.. ALMOST 40 YEARS AGO. MANY OF THEM HAD

RELATIVES WHO WERE LOST IN OR SPENT TIME IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

I ALSO WORKED IN MANHATTAN DURING THE EARLY 70S WITH MANY EUROPEAN PEOPLE WHO HAD SURVIVED THE CAMPS. IN MY TIME BOOKS LIKE ANNE FRANK

WERE CHOICES WE MADE TO READ. I KNOW THAT THIS IS A TERRIBLE THING TO SAY.... HOWEVER I FEEL THAT OUR YOUTH IS SO DESENSITIZED TO HUMAN SUFFERING, THAT EVEN BEING TOLD THE FACTS ABOUT SLAUGHTERED JEWS, THEY WOULDNT BE TOO MOVED. TO THEM TALES OF NAZI GERMANY OR CONCENTRATION CAMPS ARE SIMILAR TO DISCUSSING THE MOVIE MATRIX. ITS INTERESTING HOW ONE SUBJECT FEEDS ANOTHER.....ONE OF THE REASONS WHY

MANY HUMANS IN MY AGE BRACKET ARE DEPRESSED IS BECAUSE WE KNOW TO BE TRUE WHAT I STATED ABOVE, AND SO.....IT HAS SERIOUSLY TAKEN THE JOY OUT OF LIVING FOR MANY OF US. WHEN I SAW THE MOVIE BRAVEHEART YEARS AGO, I LEARNED A LOT ABOUT SCOTLAND. I DEVELOPED FEELING FOR THE MAIN CHARACTER.. (i CANT REMEMBER HIS NAME.) BUT IN THE END WHEN THEY WERE TORCHERING HIM I HAD TO CLOSE MY EYES. IM GLAD I HAD TO CLOSE MY EYES

IT REASSURES ME THAT I AM STILL ALIVE. Thank you Weeder.

It's not just the Holocaust that many of the under 35 age group are not familar with, but history in general. There are many that would miss the dates of the U.S. Civil War by 50 years and get it confused with WW 1. And sad to say, there are many that could not tell you the name of the current U.S. Vice President. Geography? Boy, that's another blind spot for many.

A lot of our young people don't even know about the Korean conflict . And just as a test of importance how many of you knew about Andersonville Prison before you saw it on T.V.? Considering importance in our history, I'd compare the two events.

I agree that we need to remember our history and the Holocaust should never be forgotten, but it needs to be put into perspective for today's kids. For them it is Ancient History..as long ago as WWI was for many of us at the same age. DO any of you remember the Kaiser?

PArt of the problem with Social Studies Education is that it is THAT, Social Studies and not History and Geography. Too much theory and not enough substance..if in fact it IS important to remember the exact dates of a conflict that occurred before your grandparents were born.

weeder wrote: tHE (SNIP)


Erm, Weeder, your "caps lock" has got stuck....

At certain times of the day..... Everything of mine gets stuck. Ha Ha